Sex before marriage

Beemnorv: But can't you get married when you're eighteen? So maybe your post should be changed.

Most places in the western world allow one to be married at age 14-16. 18 is pretty rare.

Originally Posted by Oni Dark Link

Beemnorv: But can't you get married when you're eighteen? So maybe your post should be changed.

Or maybe marriage should be moved to 20 as well. Seriously, who would get married at 18 or under without being rash?

Sex is for married couples only. Oh, I should also add that those are monogamous heterosexual couples. Forgot that I need to add those qualifiers these days.

My fiancée and I started dating three years ago at 17, the end of our final year at high school (although we were at different schools). I proposed to her two months ago and we will be getting married July next year. We have never had sex, and will not be doing so until we are married. And then we will be making up for lost time.

Dear god, people get married way too early.

Anyway, sex isnt a big deal as long as its done responsibly. I've had numerous sex partners and I've only been in love with two of them.

Thanks for the congratulations, Beemnorv.

Tigerboi, the average age for marriage in developed countries is about 30 for men and 27 for women. I don't think that is too early at all. (For example, any later and it becomes hard for women to become pregnant.)
If you were referring to my position in particular, in one sense I would agree: I don't think most people are ready for marriage at 21 (which is how old I will be). But, on the other hand, some are. In my opinion it is more an issue of maturity and life experience than age per se.

Originally Posted by skate_mate

Sex is for married couples only. Oh, I should also add that those are monogamous heterosexual couples. Forgot that I need to add those qualifiers these days.

Alright, I'll bite: Why is sex for married couples only, why are gay people not allowed to have sex, and what's innately wrong with polygamy/polyandry?

Originally Posted by John

Alright, I'll bite: Why is sex for married couples only, why are gay people not allowed to have sex, and what's innately wrong with polygamy/polyandry?

Let me play with the odds a bit more and add to this question:

Humans from ancient times have participated in homosexual sex since antiquated ages. It was, in fact, considered more honorable for a Greek man to have sex with another Greek man as opposed to a Greek woman. And don't get me started on the boy-sex, which extends even to today in Afghanistan. Please don't use an argument based on "Western morals"; I'm not looking for a comparison, but a justification. ^_^;

Also, nature actually supports polygamy/polyandry. If you think about it, a male lion has many lionesses attending to him and bearing his children, while male dolphins are known to engage in gang-rape of female dolphins. Alright, maybe the latter example isn't a very good one for polyandry, but the point still stands: It's natural for organic creatures to want to have sex and have as many children as possible. So why no polygamy and polyandry?

Please note that this does not mean I support (or don't support, for that matter) homosexuality, pedophilia, and polygamy/polyandry. I will only say that I'm probably far to shy for any of those. XD

Nature doesn't innately support polygamy/polyandry, some species practice polygamy, but those are usually ones where either the female can take care of the young all by herself or where the young are capable of taking care of themselves.

Otherwise species tend to not really practice it, since if it takes the work of both parents to raise the children then having the male trying to assist 10 "wives" can only end badly.


That said, I don't think there is anything innately wrong with polygamy/polyandry. They're easy to abuse, but the basic idea is not innately harmful to anyone.

Originally Posted by skate_mate

Tigerboi, the average age for marriage in developed countries is about 30 for men and 27 for women. I don't think that is too early at all. (For example, any later and it becomes hard for women to become pregnant.)
If you were referring to my position in particular, in one sense I would agree: I don't think most people are ready for marriage at 21 (which is how old I will be). But, on the other hand, some are. In my opinion it is more an issue of maturity and life experience than age per se.

I wish you you the best of luck and I hope it works out for you.

Not necessarily referring to you in particular when I say the follwoing:

I see this all the time. People come right of high school and get married. They're always divorced by 25, have at least one kid, and end up pissed that they wasted their early adulthood.

All this could be avoided if they just WAITED. I mean, you're still young, so why do you need to get married RIGHT NOW?

How does the thought process go anyway? They come out of high school and go "I'll never find anyone better than you!" when in reality they haven't even began to see the world for what it is yet. A lot of people don't even really know themselves around our age.

I have no qualms with sex before marriage, as long as it is always consensual.

Honestly I have no qualms with whether people do it solely for pleasure or to express something deeper for one another. It can be meaningful or meaningless. The only problem I do have is when it's meaningful for one person but meaningless for another. That's where problems tend to start.

Originally Posted by skate_mate

Sex is for married couples only. Oh, I should also add that those are monogamous heterosexual couples. Forgot that I need to add those qualifiers these days.

My fiancée and I started dating three years ago at 17, the end of our final year at high school (although we were at different schools). I proposed to her two months ago and we will be getting married July next year. We have never had sex, and will not be doing so until we are married. And then we will be making up for lost time.

And my opinion is that you do not deserve the rights you hold 'sacred'. Of course, this post will be regarded as intolerant, despite me not being the one horse trading with other people's human rights.

Originally Posted by skate_mate

Thanks for the congratulations, Beemnorv.

Tigerboi, the average age for marriage in developed countries is about 30 for men and 27 for women. I don't think that is too early at all. (For example, any later and it becomes hard for women to become pregnant.)
If you were referring to my position in particular, in one sense I would agree: I don't think most people are ready for marriage at 21 (which is how old I will be). But, on the other hand, some are. In my opinion it is more an issue of maturity and life experience than age per se.

That's not really that young. People at my school get married all the time, usually four or six people each year. This girl was married in 2001, when she was seventeen, and is still together with her husband. (She's a teacher here now.)

Originally Posted by skate_mate

Sex is for married couples only. Oh, I should also add that those are monogamous heterosexual couples. Forgot that I need to add those qualifiers these days.

I really hope that was sarcasm. Suppose I meet and fall in love with another man someday. Why shouldn't we be able to have sex like any straight couple?

And to avoid derailing this into a homosexual rights topic, why is sex "for" married couples only? Who makes the rules of what people get to do with their own bodies?

For me, I would like to save sexual relations for when I get married. Not because I believe it's wrong to do it beforehand, but it's just a personal thing. I want to keep that act only for someone that I truly love and am truly commited to.

I do not see the problem if it's done outside of marriage, though. I don't believe it's a sin or anything of that nature as long as you hold some respect for it. This means I'm not cool with one-night-stands. I also am a firm believer that it needs to be handled responsibly, which is not the case with a lot of kids my age. It astounds me how idiotic so many teens are that they won't wear a ♥♥♥♥ing condom.

Originally Posted by Jeff

For me, I would like to save sexual relations for when I get married. Not because I believe it's wrong to do it beforehand, but it's just a personal thing. I want to keep that act only for someone that I truly love and am truly commited to.

I do not see the problem if it's done outside of marriage, though. I don't believe it's a sin or anything of that nature as long as you hold some respect for it. This means I'm not cool with one-night-stands. I also am a firm believer that it needs to be handled responsibly, which is not the case with a lot of kids my age. It astounds me how idiotic so many teens are that they won't wear a ♥♥♥♥ing condom.

That summarizes my opinion quite nicely.

Agreeing with what you said, I must also say that people in high school shouldn't have sex simply because it doesn't do any good and can cause potential problems. Kids need to concentrate more on their education these days.

One night stands are pretty epic if both are responsible adults.

Originally Posted by Beemnorv

Agreeing with what you said, I must also say that people in high school shouldn't have sex simply because it doesn't do any good and can cause potential problems. Kids need to concentrate more on their education these days.

Education and sexual experimentation aren't mutually exclusive.

There have been some interesting posts in this thread so far. Thanks for the interesting contributions.

Alright, I'll bite: Why is sex for married couples only, why are gay people not allowed to have sex, and what's innately wrong with polygamy/polyandry?

Woops, I didn't even mean to bait!

To answer your question(s) succinctly: they are immoral. That is, I think sex outside of marriage is immoral. It doesn't matter if it is with a girl you are intending to marry, or another guy, or two guys, or two guys and three girls - whatever. The reason I think it are immoral is because I, ultimately, ground my morality in the Bible. Of course, I don't expect all of you would necessarily agree with this grounding. That's OK. What is important is that you understand where you are arguing from when you come to the issue of sex before marriage. Just glancing over some of the posts on this page, it seems that morality is being grounded in:
- an appeal to nature. For example, the ancient Greeks and/or many animal species engage/d in certain types of behaviour, therefore ______.
- consent. Is there valid consent between all participating parties? If so, no problem.
- the 'external' consequences. The moral content of the act in itself isn't the issue, rather it is the consequences which flow from it. For example, sex before marriage in itself isn't the problem, the problem is when it interferes with educational standards at high school.

The prior commitment you have to a certain grounding of morality determines your response to the issue of sex before marriage. The issue of which grounding is most internally consistent and coheres best to our experiences of the world is, of course, an topic for another thread though.

I hope that helps.

Originally Posted by skate_mate

To answer your question(s)

That's a good place to start...

they are immoral.

And then the post went downhill from here.

I appreciate that everyone grounds their morality differently. The bible isn't a bad place for a moral base, but you're taking it at face value, and accept what you've been told without considering it further.

To give an example; homosexuality. You read that it is wrong, but you haven't considered that you're denying two people their love for each other. Doesn't Jesus preach love? So why have you accepted a completely arbitrary rule without thinking about it?

For the record, I think most people here run with the moral base that if it isn't harmful, it's okay. Pre-marital sex doesn't hurt anyone (assuming it's all consensual et cetera). Unless you're saying that sex is innately harmful. In which case, why is it suddenly justified though an arbitrary ceremony such as marriage?

Think about what you're arguing.