The Religion of Evolutionism ~ discussion and CIVILIZED debate

Originally Posted by Phool

http://www.zeldauniverse.net/forums/...nce-union.html
I don't have time to answer all of these things in one single post, so I will do my best to answer all of these questions here.

This group is moderated, and I doubt that many of you will be able to get in. If you want to protest to my statements (which, no doubt, you will) then do so here, by VM, or by starting a group devoted to the purpose of countering my group. I would be even more honored if you created a group that is completely anti-me. I am surprised that such a group does not yet exist.

Oh, and John, I am playing nice with you... or at least trying to. I am trying to debate you in a civilized manner.

You didn't answer my questions or statements. Not a single one of them.

I spent 20 minutes of my time on you, where do I get it back? Seeing as you gave up and all.

But don't worry, you are not the first YEC unable to respond to me, most usually lose considering how true I am about myself (That I can change my worldviews and read through other peoples' posts)

Originally Posted by Phool

You know what I just realized? ZUers are stubborn mules when it comes to serious discussion. I reminded myself on numerous occasions not to start another thread like this, but I gave in and did it. Neither one of us will ever gain any ground because you are unwilling to consider the possibility of anything that you disagree with.

Wow...really? Stop putting yourself upon a pedestal. You're no less stubborn than anyone here. In fact, you're being more stubborn by telling yourself this. Since you are "more willing to consider the possibility" and we're so obviously not, you're just telling yourself that you're in the right.

I'm taking 10th grade biology. Am I a PhD Biologist?

Uh, no. Let's number it and make it easy for you.

1) you didn't even address my entire post.

2) I'll explain it again. A scientist can be defined as someone who uses the scientific method. If you use the scientific method to acquire knowledge, then you are a scientist.

3) Darwin never flunked out of any school. How are you going to address that lie? A simple thumb through Wikipedia and it's sources, which include biographical data on Darwin will show you this.

4) Darwin learned all he knew from another, trained scientist. That is the most basic way to learn a profession. I learned how to make drinks at Starbucks from another person, which makes me a Starbucks employee.

Originally Posted by Flames of Valor

Do only the religious get to join your group?

Yep, it looks like it. "If you have joined this group, then you are a supporter of Creation, and rejecter of evolution."

Honestly, this is a bit ridiculous, Aerem. It'll take the same amount of time to address our posts in this thread as it will to respond to them in your group. It seems like you just want to make it harder for us to debate with you.

Yes, Evolution is a religion. They may tell you that it's science but that, my friends, is a pure, openly deceptive lie. Science is what we can study by seeing and observing. We have never seen or observed evolution happening. We have, in fact, no proof that it ever did happen.

Instead of creating a blog-like first post, I have decided to dive straight into the discussion, since that always proves more than the first post. So, I claim that Evolutionism is not scientifically provable, and that to believe in it requires faith. I also state that the educational system of the world is strongly biased toward the religion of Evolutionism, and that the reason that the 55% majority of the scientific community believes in Evolutionism is that it is what they were taught, and were never given the opportunity to consider anything else until they had grown old enough to be adamant in their beliefs, unwilling to consider anything but what they already believed (no one on ZU is like that, of course). I would also like to point out that the religion of Evolutionism is government endorsed and tax-supported. What ever happened to separation of church and state here?

I submit these things for discussion.

I would like to state, just as a fun fact, that Charles Darwin was not a scientist; he flunked out of school.

For it to be a religion , it must first have a set of supernatural beliefs.

First supernatural belief - Something comes from an expansion of nothing.
It is unexplainable , believable , yet lacks accurate scientific knowledge.

Second supernatural belief - All life comes from non-living material.
That is highly impossible , because a cell (Or even a simple cell) is made up of billions of vital pieces that it would die or become cancerous if one of the vital pieces were taken away.
Not to mention that it has never been tested in a laboratory that life can spring from non-living materials.

Making a cell from that kind of chance is like creating a nintendo ds out of thin air at the exact same time it takes for a pig to fly.

Since evolutionism (As you so call it) is made up off supernatural ideas , it is deemed worthy of being a cult.

A religion must have a specific set of teachings .

One of the teachings is that life will evolve for natural reasons , Natural selection , the process of survival of the fittest.

According to these "Evolutionists" ,the human race evolved from an ape-like animal in Africa , which is supposed to be like a common gorilla , except for a few major details , including the power to lift cars.

This religion both has a historical supernatural doctrine , and a set of beliefs .
So it can be called a religion , no matter how much scientific lack or gain it has.

It is not a religion.

It is a belief which forms part of several other religions including Humanism, Buddhism and many sects of Christianity and countless others.

Saying it's a 'religion' is like saying 'believing murder is wrong' is a religion.

It is part of many religions, but is not one itself as it has no founding religious principle.

It is not a religion.

It is a belief which forms part of several other religions including Humanism, Buddhism and many sects of Christianity and countless others.

Saying it's a 'religion' is like saying 'believing murder is wrong' is a religion.

It is part of many religions, but is not one itself as it has no founding religious principle.

I can believe that God sent his son down to earth to be crucified , yet I could be a satanist , because I probably hate God.

I could even be a satanist creationist.


If you believe in evolutionism alone , then your religion would be evolutionism.

But if you believe in Christ and evolutionism , then you are probably a Christian if you hold onto the belief that God had a son that died for the sins of mankind.

You could believe in many parts of Buddhism yet be a jew.

Either way , evolutionism is a religion if you believe in more of it than any other religion.

Evolution in my opinion is anti-Scientologist. I don't believe in it.

I don't believe in scientology because it was created by a scifi writer that wrote fictitious novels.

If you believe in evolutionism alone , then your religion would be evolutionism.

No. Your 'religion'' would be Atheism, in which is the principle of evolutionism.

In the same way 'creationism' isn't a religion. It's a principle in several others.

No. Your 'religion'' would be Atheism, in which is the principle of evolutionism.

In the same way 'creationism' isn't a religion. It's a principle in several others.

Creation can be a religion if it is the only thing you believe in , religiously.

Evolutionism can be a religion , because it can be believed in alone.

Atheism isn't a religion.
It's a lack of belief in a deity.
Lack of belief isn't religion ,nut you can be a religious atheist if you believe in something that is supernatural.

Originally Posted by Majoradorf

I can believe that God sent his son down to earth to be crucified , yet I could be a satanist , because I probably hate God.

Why do you assume satanists hate God? Have you even studied satanism the slightest?

Originally Posted by Majoradorf

If you believe in evolutionism alone , then your religion would be evolutionism.

False.

Creation can be a religion if it is the only thing you believe in , religiously.

Evolutionism can be a religion , because it can be believed in alone.

No it can't. A religion is organised by definition. They can be aspects of FAITH, but not a religion.

Why do you assume satanists hate God? Have you even studied satanism the slightest?

I didn't say that satanism was based on the hate of God.
I just said that "Probably" your main reason for becoming a satanist is hating God .

You can hate God even if you don't believe he exists.

False.

Instead of saying "False" , first explain to me why I am false.

If I believed in a supernatural doctrine , lets say that Jesus Christ is the son of God and died for my sins , then I WOULD BE RELIGIOUS.
It's called Christianity.

If I believed that Moses is the Holiest of prophets , I am probably Jewish.

If I believe that Muhammad was the last prophet , then I am probably a Muslim.

If there is something to be taught , but is supernatural , then it is a religion.

If I believed in Evolutionism , I am an evolutionist.

I could be part of an evolutionist sect of Christianity , which would make me part of 2 religions , in the same way that a Cheristian believes in Buddhist reincarnation.

There is no 'belief' in evolution. It is cold hard evidence and fact. Belief is acceptance without the necessity of tangible evidence.

I don't believe in evolution or put faith in evolution. I accept it as the model that makes the most sense with the best available evidence I have been provided with.

I could be part of an evolutionist sect of Christianity , which would make me part of 2 religions , in the same way that a

No it wouldn't.
Christianity is a religion- the evolution.creation issue are principles WITHIN a religion.

I am an evolutionist. I am Christian. I think murder is wrong. I disagree with abortion as a form of contraception but believe it right if the mother's health is at risk. I am fine and dandy with homosexuality. I believe some day Jesus will return. AND A BILLION OTHER THINGS.

By your logic each of these things is a religion. Thus I am part of about a billion different religions.

This is false.

Originally Posted by Majoradorf

I just said that "Probably" your main reason for becoming a satanist is hating God .

Which is false, as anyone who has basic knowledge of satanism understands. After all, Satan is the Church's best friend, which has kept it in business all these years.

Originally Posted by Majoradorf

Instead of saying "False" , first explain to me why I am false.

I do not believe in any supernatural deities.

Originally Posted by Majoradorf

If there is something to be taught , but is supernatural , then it is a religion.

However, evolution is hardly supernatural.

Originally Posted by River Zora

No. Your 'religion'' would be Atheism, in which is the principle of evolutionism.

In the same way 'creationism' isn't a religion. It's a principle in several others.

Francis Collins believes in evolution as well as being a Christian, so, you don't have to be an Atheist to believe in evolution.

I know. I am also an Evolutionist Christian. Majoradorf's post I was addressing claimed 'If you believed in Evolution and nothing else then your religion would be Evolutionist.'

I was countering his point.

Originally Posted by Flames of Valor

Yes, I suppose it would help to get ahead of someone, and benefit you huh? Seems logical.

Originally Posted by John

I've no idea how it evolved, I'm afraid, but it does have benefits. Hating someone because they've taken advantage of you, or threaten you, or in some other way inhibit you from achieving you goals is, in fact, one of the most logical moves one can make in game theory. (Well, with some exceptions, but it's generally not a bad idea to dislike someone who has shown that they won't play nice with you.)

It seems to me that a better perspective of the evolution of traits is not as a means to an end but as causal happenstance. The only thing a trait needs to be in order to be passed on is not a hindrance to survival and reproduction.

Hatred has so far not hindered humanity's survival and proliferation. But the circumstances can change whether a trait becomes a hindrance, a benefit, or remain neither. Still, discontent becomes the impetus for change.

In This Thread: Users who can't agree on the definition of "Religion".

I would say that a person's religion is the aspect of existence which they give primary importance to. Atheism wouldn't be a religion, as it only denotes what one DOES NOT give importance to, but "logicism" might be, since a person might give primary importance to the "universal truth" of logic. A person does not need to believe in supernatural phenomena - their religion would be more like what they believe the meaning of life to be.

There is no 'belief' in evolution. It is cold hard evidence and fact. Belief is acceptance without the necessity of tangible evidence.

I don't believe in evolution or put faith in evolution. I accept it as the model that makes the most sense with the best available evidence I have been provided with.

ERNNN!!

Evolution is the change of one species to another or the change from one breed to another.
Evolution through natural selection is survival of the fittest.
If you can survive long enough to have babies , then you have successfully fulfilled your part in evolution.
Evolution through artificial selection is the selection of the animals at random or purpose , most likely by humans , by means of breeding.

Evolution has been indeed proven to be true.

But evolution has NOTHING to do with where the universe comes from.
In fact , evolution has always been known to exist , even throughout ancient times.

What Charles Darwin suggested is that all life forms share a common ancestor , on Earth.
That theory of Abiogenesis is not a scientific theory , and has absolutely no solid proof.

He also suggested that evolution happens , via natural selection , an idea that Charles Darwin was the first to theorize .

Natural selection is Charles Darwin's only proven theory.

Abiogensis ( Opposite of creation ) is just an idea and has no proof.

What Phool meant by "Evolutionism" is abiogenesis .

When Charles Darwin wrote his book "Origin of Species" , he wrote it in a manner that was supposed to be easily read by anyone , but most people cannot tell the difference between evolution and abiogenesis.

Let me clarify the difference.

Evolution just means change , which we all know can happen.

Abiogensis (A-anti Bio-biological Genesis-creation) means what it is.
Anti Biological genesis means , no creation of life or lack of creation of life.

Evolution is a proven theory .

Abiogenesis is a supernatural doctrine , a religion.

Genesis is a supernatural doctrine , a religion.

I am a creationist that believes in evolution.

Noah can bring 2 of every kind , and the animals can evolve into even more species later.

My theory is that the Earth was flooded when some of the atmosphere broke because of cataclysmic events.
Because of the small amount of radiation that poured in , people only lived 20-40 years instead of 100s of years.
Because of this radiation pouring in , large amounts of animals gave birth to deformed and different animals , which gave rise to these new various breeds and species.

The point remains that creationism and evolutionism are not religions.

They are beliefs held and shared by a number of religions, but are no more religions in and of themselves than the belief homosexuality is right (believe) or wrong, or that murder is right or wrong(believe).

Otherwise my religions would be Homosexualist, Evolutionist, Christian, Anti-Murderist etc. etc.