Where does the universe come from?

Originally Posted by 8

THATS_THE_JOKE.jpg

Aye, but since (a) Lysis does seem basically serious about forbidding a universe without a begining, (b) this thread would benefit from any possible change in topic, and (c) I'm hella bored, I couldn't help m'self.
*sigh*

Well then I'll say that the universe could have existed forever - in fact that was the widespread and accepted worldview during Newton's time. There are quite a few philosophic/observational arguments against our universe having existed forever, but that's not to say it couldn't have been so. We believe that the universe had a moment of creation (Big Bang) because that's what the evidence and our current theories tell us.

Originally Posted by Flames of Valor

You sound like a deist to me.

I can see why it might seem that way, but I'm not.

Then he would also know he would go against him, unless you wish to call your God mentally insane (repeating something expecting different results is the first step to insanity)

No it's not.

That's just a silly Einstein quote. He isn't commenting on anything related to psychology either, he's making a self-deprecating joke about how, in science, we test multiple times with the expectation that our hypothesis will be incorrect.

Originally Posted by mmmmm_PIE

Even if that's grammatically sensible (which I'd dispute: how do you fine "an infinite amount of time ago" without either limiting infinity or hopelessly needing to define "a moment prior to an infinite amount of time ago"), its a tautology: farthest thing in the world from a contradiction.

that's the problem.

there is no such thing as "an infinite amount of time ago" which is why time could not be infinite which is why the Universe could not have been in existence for an infinite amount of time.

Originally Posted by Lysis

no one has refuted the Big Bang theory yet, Hell Hawk.

It hasn't been proven either, and it can't be proven with humanity's current knowledge.
Other theories are observable. If I wanted to test whether gravity existed, I could drop a ball on the ground. If I wanted to test the cell theory, I could put a piece of my skin under a microscope. If I wanted to test whether radioactivity existed, I could just get out a Geiger counter and sweep it over something.

Unless I go back 5 billion years in a time machine, I can't test or observe the Big Bang, so I don't consider it fact.

I am not saying that the Big Bang theory isn't possible (just like I'm saying creationism isn't possible). I'm just saying that I'm not going to believe it until there is concrete evidence.

Originally Posted by Hell Hawk

It hasn't been proven either, and it can't be proven with humanity's current knowledge.
Other theories are observable. If I wanted to test whether gravity existed, I could drop a ball on the ground. If I wanted to test the cell theory, I could put a piece of my skin under a microscope. If I wanted to test whether radioactivity existed, I could just get out a Geiger counter and sweep it over something.

Unless I go back 5 billion years in a time machine, I can't test or observe the Big Bang, so I don't consider it fact.

I am not saying that the Big Bang theory isn't possible (just like I'm saying creationism isn't possible). I'm just saying that I'm not going to believe it until there is concrete evidence.

Well here's some observational evidence for you: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Ban...ional_evidence

Originally Posted by Hell Hawk

It hasn't been proven either, and it can't be proven with humanity's current knowledge.
Other theories are observable. If I wanted to test whether gravity existed, I could drop a ball on the ground. If I wanted to test the cell theory, I could put a piece of my skin under a microscope. If I wanted to test whether radioactivity existed, I could just get out a Geiger counter and sweep it over something.

Unless I go back 5 billion years in a time machine, I can't test or observe the Big Bang, so I don't consider it fact.

I am not saying that the Big Bang theory isn't possible (just like I'm saying creationism isn't possible). I'm just saying that I'm not going to believe it until there is concrete evidence.

15 billion years.

Also, many other theories can't be directly observed. Do you consider the geological history of the Earth as we know it to be accurate?

Originally Posted by Lysis

there is no such thing as "an infinite amount of time ago" which is why time could not be infinite

Non sequitur: no two points on the Real Line or infinitely distant from one another, but that does not mean the Real Line is not infinite.
There is no such thing as "an infinite amount of time ago" because the phrase is nonsensical: it implies bounding what is by definition boundless.

Originally Posted by 8bit

No it's not.

That's just a silly Einstein quote. He isn't commenting on anything related to psychology either, he's making a self-deprecating joke about how, in science, we test multiple times with the expectation that our hypothesis will be incorrect.

Wait, that's Einstein? I must be smarter than I thought.

Originally Posted by Hell Hawk

It hasn't been proven either, and it can't be proven with humanity's current knowledge.

nonsense. The Big Bang theory has buckets of proof. It's as proven as any other scientific theory.

Other theories are observable. If I wanted to test whether gravity existed, I could drop a ball on the ground. If I wanted to test the cell theory, I could put a piece of my skin under a microscope. If I wanted to test whether radioactivity existed, I could just get out a Geiger counter and sweep it over something.

if you want to test whether the Big Bang happened you look for things that such a Big Bang would cause. Like, say, the expansion of the Universe caused by a Big Bang. Or the energy left over from the Big Bang. All of this evidence directly supports the Big Bang theory.

Unless I go back 5 billion years in a time machine, I can't test or observe the Big Bang, so I don't consider it fact.

that's completely nonsense. You don't have to see it happen to see its results. We know the Big Bang happened because we can see what sort of things it caused. You can't go back in time to see Abraham Lincoln giving his Gettysburg Address, or George Washington crossing the Delaware either. Doesn't mean it didn't happen. We have evidence that can best be explained using the Big Bang model.

I am not saying that the Big Bang theory isn't possible (just like I'm saying creationism isn't possible). I'm just saying that I'm not going to believe it until there is concrete evidence.

I guess today is your lucky day! I have a whole page of concrete evidence for the Big Bang right here.

read it. I insist. Until you have read this and refuted every piece of evidence it gives, you have no right to argue against the Big Bang theory.

As far as i know, the Universe as we know it is infinite. As old stars die, new stars are formed.

Our Universe was created with a Big Bang*. Which is basically a star dying and exploding at the point of death. This creates new stars and generates space rocks which in time created the planets.

*Scientists are proving this

Originally Posted by Jimes

As far as i know, the Universe as we know it is infinite. As old stars die, new stars are formed.

Our Universe was created with a Big Bang*. Which is basically a star dying and exploding at the point of death. This creates new stars and generates space rocks which in time created the planets.

*Scientists are proving this

Most stars do not super nova. Black holes also take in a great amount of matter. From at least what I know, I would wonder how long stars capable of super nova will continue to form.

Originally Posted by Jimes

As far as i know, the Universe as we know it is infinite. As old stars die, new stars are formed.

Our Universe was created with a Big Bang*. Which is basically a star dying and exploding at the point of death. This creates new stars and generates space rocks which in time created the planets.

*Scientists are proving this

looks like you're confusing the Big Bang with supernovae. The Big Bang had nothing to do with the explosion of any stars.