Gun Control

What's your opinion of gun control?
I seriously want it, now. It would cut crime atleast by half if guns were flat-out banned. If all guns with a caliber of more that 36, or a gauge of less than 13, then it should be banned. More majorly, I believe that all firearms with an ammunition capacity of more than 6 should be banned.

That would efectively ban nearly all semi-automatic and automatic weapons, along with combat shotgus, therefore much lessening gang crime, murder, and robbery.

What is your opinion on gun control, and what laws would you impose if you were in power?

it sounds good, but banning things never turns out well. the only way we could ever successfully eliminate guns would be if we destroyed every gun in the world and killed everyone who knew haow to produce one, and destroyed all assembly instructions. I don't see this happening, so Banning isn''t possible. One thing we can do though, is to close the loophole that allows gun shows to forgo background checks when selling. we can't ever get rid of the problem of guns but that's one thing we can do to make them less easy to obtain.

I think if someone wants a gun they need to have a thorough background check and learn to properly store a gun. Especially if children are in the home.

And yeah.

I personally don't care if someone wants to own a gun or already has a collection of them. I just want to know that they are not in the hands of a psychopath.

So you want to ban all guns. And think that crime would go away? Drugs are illegal, but they are still all over. If you want something, you can get it. So what makes you think that the guy that robs a bank or "caps a hommie" cares if the gun is legal or not? Getting rid of all guns wouldn't work. If anything more homes should have one. Look at most any country who has done that. Their crime rates don't magically drop. And knife crimes shoot up as well.

Gun control is using both hands. If the government wants to take my guns they can. They can pry them empty from my cold dead hands. I'd do the same if I lost any other freedoms in the Constitution. I'm for keeping guns out of the hands of bad guys (who isn't?) but I don't feel the way to do the is to make it harder to get a gun legally. It costs about 400 (if that) to legally buy an AK47 and then legally buy the automatic trigger for it. If you have both of these (and don't have the proper FFL to have automatic guns) then it's a federal crime. My point is it's easy to get it legally, but you still never hear of a mass of people with legal automatic weapons. They buy the illegal ones. That are cheaper and much harder to trace back to the person who bought it or shot it.

As for controlling the size of a magazine, it's a stupid idea. Now legal gun owners have 6 shots to defend them selves. While the illegal owner can get a drum mag from a friend in another state and have 75+ rounds to hose down whatever he wants. I also think limiting the size of guns is stupid (caliber). If I want to go spend 5K on a .50 cal sniper rifle (that's registered etc) then I should be damn well able to. I feel explosive should be banned (Few people need C4) but guns are fair game. A bigger round only makes the gun harder to conceal. I mean really, the muzzle flash from a .50 cal round is massive. And nobody (outside of Hollywood) is going to use one in a crime. A huge gun that's hard to smuggle and too long to deploy in most areas.
I agree that people need a background check to own a gun, but anything more than that is kinda crazy. Every gun is registered to a particular owner (and with modern crime labs it's easy to match a gun to the bullet fired and then find the owner) and because of this illegal guns are used in crimes.

People thought the same thing about alcohol, and we ended up with Prohibition.

I'll let you interpret that on your own.

Originally Posted by Valhelm

What's your opinion of gun control?
I seriously want it, now. It would cut crime atleast by half if guns were flat-out banned.

Wrong. Guns can also be used to prevent crime. When you ban something that generally means only the bad people can get whatever has been banned. In the case of guns that's a very dangerous thing.

Alot of these arguments can also be used for Marijuana which I think should be legalized for the same reasons.

EDIT: This video speaks truth.

Oh boy, gun control. Well, I did some research on this subject a while back. Here are some of my findings.

In Australia, Aussie Gun Stats (2007)
Stats show, Firearms make up: Murder 13.4% Attempted Murder 15.2% Kidnapping/Abduction3.2% Robbery% 6.4

Stats also show, Knives make up: Murder: 32.0% Attempted Murder: 41.0% Kidnapping and Abduction: 5.3% Robbery: 20.2%

Stats also show, Robbeies

(2003) the link shows that firearms make up 23% of weapons used for armed robbery, while knives make up 49%.

Trends
Statistics also show that Australia's gun laws, have had little to no effect on gun crimes and gun homicides. The trend started to decline before the laws were implemented, and continued at their rate.

In Canada,

Canada Stats

Homicide - (Total)548 (Weapons Present)331 Percentage- 25.1(firearm) 21.8(knife)
Attempted Murder- (Total) 710 (Weapons Present)446 Percentage- 24.9(Firearm) 37.7 (Knife)
Robbery- (Total)28,332 (Weapons Present)22,906 Percentage- 13.6(Firearm) 19.6 (Knife)

From this information, knives seem to be more dangerous than firearms in terms of crimes in general.

Homicide Stats

(2007) “Although there was an overall decline in homicide, gang-related homicides continue to increase, now accounting for about one in five homicides in Canada. Canadian homicide victims are generally at equal risk of either being shot or stabbed, with each method accounting for about one-third of all homicides. The use of handguns to commit homicide continues to rise, while the use of rifles/shotguns continues to decline.”

The majority of firearm related homicides are committed with a handgun, about 81%.

In the Czech Republic,

Wiki, Czech Guns

(2008) Their sources: (2001) “Gun politics in the Czech Republic are quite liberal compared to other countries in Europe. The last Gun Act was passed in 2001 and replaced the old law tightening the legislation slightly. Generally guns in the Czech Republic are available to anybody above 18 (or 21 for certain license categories) with clean criminal record. Self-defense is an acceptable justification to get the license. The Czech gun laws allow its citizens to carry a concealed weapon without having any specific reason.”

Czech Homicide and Guns

(2002)From this source I found that, 13.4432% of homicides are committed with a firearm, despite having liberal gun laws. Less than both Canada and Australia who have considerably stricter laws.

In addition, the majority of gun deaths in all countries I researched are suicides, ranging from 80% in Canada, to 55% in America.

Based on the information I have found from other countries, (I have more.) I personally concluded that gun laws generally aren't very successful, drive up the murder rates of other weapons, take away the ability of the common man to defend himself, and give criminals an advantage.

I think Gun Control should be regulated by the likes of background checks, and the removal of very powerful weapons. I would prefer people to keep the ability to defend themselves. That should always be a right.

Hey Flames of Valor do you have anything on um I think it's Switzerland? I did a report back in high school on gun control (too long ago to remember) and remember that Switzerland have a very low crime rate. And thanks to their military (all males have to serve for so long. Like I said long time ago) almost every household has a gun (most being automatic) and has an extremely low crime rate. I always felt that kinda spoke for it's self on gun control. Who wants to rob a house knowing pretty much every one has a firearm, many of which are automatic?

And I've always been a fan of telling people exactly what The Great Panda said. I'm shocked how people think taking away guns would be any different.

Flames, while I'm glad you tried to do your homework, but I've got one sorta pressing problem. Why haven't you actually looked at most important facts? Of the countries you listed, how many people legally own guns? What are the overall violent crime rates in these countries? Sure, you've presented some pretty numbers, but you've completely disregarded a whole aspect of the argument.

If I recall correctly, the number of people who legally own a gun in Canada is something like sixty percent. And I believe most of those are for game hunting of some sort. The two largest provinces, the ones with the most people, Ontario and Quebec are the two with the strictest gun control. They also have lower violent crime rates than all the other provinces and territories, the exception being Prince Edward Island, the smallest province in the country both in population and size.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Cr..._in_Canada.svg

Originally Posted by Avalanchemike

Just because a society is informed, does not mean that there is going to be less crime. Just because people are polite, doesn't mean it either. Though they help, they are not the ultimate factors. As long as 80 some odd percent of the American population keeps guns, there will be problems. Why? Because it only takes a misunderstanding for someone to lose a life. Because the people who don't care about the laws of society and just want to see the world burn are always going to have ready access to weapons which they can use to hurt people.

Does this mean we should get rid of anything that could be considered a weapon? No. Just because a cleaver can easily cut through steak or human flesh doesn't mean it should be banned. There is a 'good use' for a cleaver in society: Cutting meat. There is no 'good use' for a gun in society. A gun is meant to kill someone. That is all it has ever been meant for. Anyone who denies this is a bloody idiot.

I think it's important that people realize that gun control and a complete ban on guns are two entirely different things. I'm of the view that the closer you get to urban areas, the more gun control is need; however, I'm not an expert on this subject, and I don't have the first idea how to implement a plan like this.

Originally Posted by Avalanchemike

Just because a society is informed, does not mean that there is going to be less crime. Just because people are polite, doesn't mean it either. Though they help, they are not the ultimate factors. As long as 80 some odd percent of the American population keeps guns, there will be problems. Why? Because it only takes a misunderstanding for someone to lose a life. Because the people who don't care about the laws of society and just want to see the world burn are always going to have ready access to weapons which they can use to hurt people.

Does this mean we should get rid of anything that could be considered a weapon? No. Just because a cleaver can easily cut through steak or human flesh doesn't mean it should be banned. There is a 'good use' for a cleaver in society: Cutting meat. There is no 'good use' for a gun in society. A gun is meant to kill someone. That is all it has ever been meant for. Anyone who denies this is a bloody idiot.

Whenever I consider banning anything in the US I always look at everything else that is or was banned. First we tried banning alcohol and it gave rise to the mobsters like Capone, and today we're trying to get rid of drugs and now the illegal drug trade has become a billion dollar industry. I can only assume that if we tried to ban guns in the United States we'd run into the same problem, especially since resistance to the ban would be much stronger than it ever was with drugs or booze. You know that old NRA motto? "You'll get my guns when you pry them from my cold, dead hands."

And about your point that guns are used for killing. Have you ever heard of a justified homicide? Sometimes people are forced to kill to keep themselves from being killed. Basically if guns were banned criminals would have a huge advantage over law abiding citizens.

Originally Posted by Avalanchemike

Flames, while I'm glad you tried to do your homework, but I've got one sorta pressing problem. Why haven't you actually looked at most important facts? Of the countries you listed, how many people legally own guns? What are the overall violent crime rates in these countries? Sure, you've presented some pretty numbers, but you've completely disregarded a whole aspect of the argument.

If I recall correctly, the number of people who legally own a gun in Canada is something like sixty percent. And I believe most of those are for game hunting of some sort. The two largest provinces, the ones with the most people, Ontario and Quebec are the two with the strictest gun control. They also have lower violent crime rates than all the other provinces and territories, the exception being Prince Edward Island, the smallest province in the country both in population and size.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Cr..._in_Canada.svg

Did you actually look at the sources? They provide all the charts you are looking for. If you require more sources, I have them. Most of my sources are government statistics bureaus.

Regardless, what is the relevance of legally owned guns? What is the relevance of overall crimes rates when this is about guns?

Originally Posted by John Henry Eden

Whenever I consider banning anything in the US I always look at everything else that is or was banned. First we tried banning alcohol and it gave rise to the mobsters like Capone, and today we're trying to get rid of drugs and now the illegal drug trade has become a billion dollar industry. I can only assume that if we tried to ban guns in the United States we'd run into the same problem, especially since resistance to the ban would be much stronger than it ever was with drugs or booze. You know that old NRA motto? "You'll get my guns when you pry them from my cold, dead hands."

There's a huge difference; aren't the majority of guns manufactured in the United States as opposed to outside of it, as alcohol was and drugs are?

Originally Posted by DrZaius1

There's a huge difference; aren't the majority of guns manufactured in the United States as opposed to outside of it, as alcohol was and drugs are?

Yes, but your forgetting that there are millions of guns in the US, and it would be impossible to confiscate them all. Plus you'd have have thousands of people who manufactured weapons who are now out of a job. It's entirely feasible that these people would turn to making guns illegally. It's also likely that the gun companies in America would simply move to another country and then people would smuggle gun in from that country. We may also see member of the military smuggling weapons out of the armories.

Originally Posted by John Henry Eden

Yes, but your forgetting that there are millions of guns in the US, and it would be impossible to confiscate them all. Plus you'd have have thousands of people who manufactured weapons who are now out of a job. It's entirely feasible that these people would turn to making guns illegally. It's also likely that the gun companies in America would simply move to another country and then people would smuggle gun in from that country. We may also see member of the military smuggling weapons out of the armories.

Already said I'm not in favor of a total ban on guns. I don't think it's practical, for the reasons you mentioned above.

Originally Posted by Flames of Valor

Did you actually look at the sources? They provide all the charts you are looking for. If you require more sources, I have them. Most of my sources are government statistics bureaus.

Regardless, what is the relevance of legally owned guns? What is the relevance of overall crimes rates when this is about guns?

The relevance of legally owned guns: If someone has access to a gun they are more likely to use a gun in a preplanned situation that a knife. If forty percent of the population doesn't have access to a gun, they can't commit a gun related offence.

The relevance of overall crime rates is you're saying "Well, Australia has _____ many gun related _____ as compared to ______ with knives." But how many actual cases of gun-related violence happens in Australia? How many actual cases happen in the Czech Republic? In Canada? You not showing the entire picture with your data, just what you want to show.

And no, I'm not looking for it. Screw pdfs :@

Originally Posted by John Henry Eden

Yes, but your forgetting that there are millions of guns in the US, and it would be impossible to confiscate them all. Plus you'd have have thousands of people who manufactured weapons who are now out of a job. It's entirely feasible that these people would turn to making guns illegally. It's also likely that the gun companies in America would simply move to another country and then people would smuggle gun in from that country. We may also see member of the military smuggling weapons out of the armories.

You're right, there a literally hundreds of millions of guns currently in the United States. But we're not going to ban or confiscate them, that's far too much work. Make it hard to purchase a firearm and put restrictions on all guns the op mentioned. But this still leaves the problem of all the guns not in the market but already in people's homes, doesn't it?

It's a very simple fix really. Stop the selling of ammunition for these guns, and for every gun that is restricted, allow the populace to return the firearms in exchange for a break in taxes. It doesn't have to be a large break, let's say half of the value of the gun. For some guns that might not be a lot but if a guy can save $300 on his taxes for that year it might be incentive for him to turn it.

If the government put an outright ban on ammunition, which to be honest would make me laugh out loud, you'd all be **** out of luck. Just because you have a "right" to a firearm doesn't mean you have a "right" to the ammunition for it.

And about your point that guns are used for killing. Have you ever heard of a justified homicide? Sometimes people are forced to kill to keep themselves from being killed. Basically if guns were banned criminals would have a huge advantage over law abiding citizens.

Criminals already have a huge advantage over law-abiding citizens. They're criminals, they don't give a crap about what is legal or illegal. If someone has a gun pointed at you and tells you to give him your car, even if you have a gun it's not going to make a difference. If that man didn't want your car, or only wanted you out of the car so he could kill you easily, it's not going to make a difference whether or not you have a gun.

Killing is never justified, there are simply times when it is less wrong and it should never be left in the hands of citizens.

Originally Posted by Avalanchemike

The relevance of legally owned guns: If someone has access to a gun they are more likely to use a gun in a preplanned situation that a knife. If forty percent of the population doesn't have access to a gun, they can't commit a gun related offence.

The majority of crimes aren't committed with legal hand guns.

The relevance of overall crime rates is you're saying "Well, Australia has _____ many gun related _____ as compared to ______ with knives." But how many actual cases of gun-related violence happens in Australia? How many actual cases happen in the Czech Republic? In Canada? You not showing the entire picture with your data, just what you want to show.

I just posted some of the highlights, the information is in the pdf's.

And no, I'm not looking for it. Screw pdfs :@

Then don't complain.

I believe Americans have the right to bear arms, but not any arms that cannot be practically used for defense or hunting. That means no automatic weapons, no high-caliber rounds, and so on. Also, background checks should always be mandatory.

I would like to point out that an AK-47 and a .50 calibre sniper rifle are hardly defensive weapons. There is a very good reason why weapons manufacturers have different product lines for civilian and military/special police unit weapons. A working AK-47 or a military sniper rifle are clearly offensive weapons largely used in warfare. I don't see any viable reason for anyone to buy such a weapon for his own use. You might as well make RPG launchers, grenades and machine guns available to the general public.

As for the Switzerland example we need to be aware that every household does not arbitrarily own automatic weapons for no reason other than they want to. There is a very specific system in place, which appears to be very similar to my country's system. All adult males are conscripted for a set term of service at the age of 18, whereupon they are issued their personal gear which includes an automatic weapon registered in their name. When they are released they are required to keep their weapon and sufficient ammunition at home. But that is something heavily monitored and you aren't even allowed to load much less fire the weapon outside of a military context. Granted, it most certainly would be a deterrence to someone planning to rob your home, but it hardly has anything to do with gun control laws.

Also, the comparison between drugs/alcohol and firearms. Drugs and alcohol are pretty much a consumer good - people buy it and consume it. Perhaps the same can be said for ammunition I suppose, but a weapon is a little more permanent than a bottle of Johnny Walker. Furthermore, any ramifications from the use of drugs and alcohol solely affects the person consuming them, whereas a weapon is explicitly concerned with another individual. Just because something being illegal may give rise to crime around its trafficking, doesn't mean it shouldn't be illegal.

I'm against gun control, mainly because I can't think of much that can defend against a gun, besides another gun. Now some homes have safe rooms where you can go hide while the robbers ransack your place. If you can make it there. And they do have bulletproof vests, but that doesn't protect against everything.

The last time I posted in one of these thread, someone said with thta logic, they might as well let everyone have a tank. You know what? If tanks become as easy to get your hands on as a handgun, I wouldn't mind letting people have tanks or anti tank weapons.

The only thing banning guns does is take guns away from law abiding people. The bad guys that we really want to take guns away from will either get guns illegally, or just use something else.