Gangs and 'Respect'

Something that is common among gangs is their desire for respect. Conflicts are often started due to a lack of 'respect'.

The thing is, inhumane acts are never worthy of respect. The fact that they expect respect is presumptuous in and of itself. If anything, they earn only disdain and fear from the general populace. Fear, is not respect, it's fear.

So, do gangs deserve respect?

Honour is for dying men.

Inner city children join gangs because they have no family, and no single symbol to represent anything of the sort. A child brought up without affection and love is easily drawn to any radical society. They are promised approval and protection. A family, so to speak. This works for the Taliban or the Bloods.

The whole yearning for respect thing is secondary, really, considering it has a lot more to do with compensation for insecurities than honor. They call it respect, but that's really only for lack of a better term, and even then it's out of context. Especially considering most gang conflicts are over who has the right to market drugs in a particular area.

^Quite true a lot of the time, well said.

As for the respect thing it's self, they look at people being afraid of them as respect. Which it is not, it's like saying people in opressed countries respect thier leader, usually, they don't, they're just scared to get shot if they say other wise.

However, when Ali G says it, he is using the right context of "Respek!"

Originally Posted by Flames of Valor

Something that is common among gangs is their desire for respect. Conflicts are often started due to a lack of 'respect'.

The thing is, inhumane acts are never worthy of respect. The fact that they expect respect is presumptuous in and of itself. If anything, they earn only disdain and fear from the general populace. Fear, is not respect, it's fear.

So, do gangs deserve respect?

yes.

If a scary man with a gun told me to respect him, I'd do it.

Originally Posted by Alex

If a scary man with a gun told me to respect him, I'd do it.

please tell me you're kidding.

Originally Posted by Alex

If a scary man with a gun told me to respect him, I'd do it.

Lying about respect =/= respect.

If gangs are good at what they do they should get respect.
If they are not good at what they do then they deserve less respect than gangs that are good at what they do.

Gangs exist because the government is either unwilling or incapable of dealing with them.
or they just haven't had time to catch on to their antics. This means that the gangstas are more competent at what they do than the established authority (or they care more about their jobs than the govt guys do.)

Gangs exist because there is something people want that the government says people shouldn't have. Thus they give people what they want.

If all the gangsters in Compton wrote a letter to Obama--or any other official with jurisdiction/legislative powers--saying crack should be legal within their own territory:

Would it work you think?

Originally Posted by Erasmus

If gangs are good at what they do they should get respect.
If they are not good at what they do then they deserve less respect than gangs that are good at what they do.

Gangs exist because the government is either unwilling or incapable of dealing with them.
or they just haven't had time to catch on to their antics. This means that the gangstas are more competent at what they do than the established authority (or they care more about their jobs than the govt guys do.)

Gangs exist because there is something people want that the government says people shouldn't have. Thus they give people what they want.

If all the gangsters in Compton wrote a letter to Obama--or any other official with jurisdiction/legislative powers--saying crack should be legal within their own territory:

Would it work you think?

I expect you also respect Jeffrey Dahmer for being a good human butcher yes? Or Hitler for being such an efficient Jew killer. He deserves more respect then other Jew killers right? He's like, the king.

If the government was willing to crack down with extreme force and absurdly harsh punishment, they would win. It would be absurdly totalitarian, but the government posses wealth and man power that gangsters could never, and will never match. But it won't happen.

To me, gangs are like people living feudally. They have their 'territory' and defend it, as well as do other things on it.

No, I don't think so.

Depends on what that particular gang is doing. Also depends on whether or not you equate respect with fear.

Originally Posted by Flames of Valor

I expect you also respect Jeffrey Dahmer for being a good human butcher yes? Or Hitler for being such an efficient Jew killer. He deserves more respect then other Jew killers right? He's like, the king.

If the government was willing to crack down with extreme force and absurdly harsh punishment, they would win. It would be absurdly totalitarian, but the government posses wealth and man power that gangsters could never, and will never match. But it won't happen.

To me, gangs are like people living feudally. They have their 'territory' and defend it, as well as do other things on it.

No, I don't think so.

so your main reason for not respecting them is feudalism?
So I take it you don't respect the corporate-fudal world much then , eh?

but that's besides the point.

Hitler's climb to political power was impressive. his military strategy wasn't too shabby (until the end).

throwing millions of starving and terrified jews into overly large ovens isn't really hard once you've achieved power.

Maybe he was efficient about it? O_o

I don't tend to respect efficiency though. Style and quality.

Too much air polution there.

Don't know which human butcher you're talking about. It would depend upon the type of people he was butchering I suppose, and the motives as well.

The gangsters are the struggling yet mildly successful underdogs while the government is just the lazy power figure who happen to have the time and money to afford "good morals".

Please try again.

Fear is an irrelevant factor for me, as nothing really causes me to feel that anymore.

well, except for spiders.

Originally Posted by Flames of Valor

So, do gangs deserve respect?

They deserve corporal punishment and need a reality check.

Originally Posted by Erasmus

so your main reason for not respecting them is feudalism?
So I take it you don't respect the corporate-fudal world much then , eh?

That was a remark on their antic and structure. I don't respect them because they are criminals and a detriment to society as a whole.

Hitler's climb to political power was impressive. his military strategy wasn't too shabby (until the end).

throwing millions of starving and terrified jews into overly large ovens isn't really hard once you've achieved power.

Maybe he was efficient about it? O_o

So you respect Hitler then? I mean, now that you say that he sounds like a respectable chap to me.

I don't tend to respect efficiency though. Style and quality.

And gangs have style and quality?

Don't know which human butcher you're talking about. It would depend upon the type of people he was butchering I suppose, and the motives as well.

Jeffrey Dahmer

The gangsters are the struggling yet mildly successful underdogs while the government is just the lazy power figure who happen to have the time and money to afford "good morals".

They deserve corporal punishment and need a reality check.

/thread
They are mildly successful because they operate to take advantage of the failings of law enforcement and the justice system. Like I said, a more totalitarian policy would result in extremely efficient crackdowns.

Please try again.

Try what again?

Fear is an irrelevant factor for me, as nothing really causes me to feel that anymore.

well, except for spiders.

As long as you can distinguish respect from fear, I don't care.

Originally Posted by DrZaius1

Depends on what that particular gang is doing. Also depends on whether or not you equate respect with fear.

My thoughts exactly. Depending on how they are trying to get respect, I may or may not respect them.

Ah, gangs. Gangs gangs gangs.

I feel like Jeykell and Hyde here.

The Jeykell in me is saying: "The root of the gang problem is simple: Poverty and unemployment. If we fix that, I'm sure gangs will soon diminish as people will have a place in this country.

Yet the Hyde vies for complete and total Stalin-ism on them. Hunt down each and every one of them no matter the cost, no matter what, show no mercy to them or their family. Find them and exterminate them. Since they don't care for the law, it'd be a waste of time asking them kindly "Please obey them." If violence is all they understand, then they will be met with violence in a big way. They will see their world shot straight to hell.

But then the Jekyell part says: "No! It'll be like Vietnam all over again, but in our own country and with gangs. Down one gang, there will be more. Plus, do we really need to go down that road? It seems too Nazisim for me."

Then my insane self says: "Will Britain and France invade us if that happens?"

So I really do not know what to do. :/ I mean, I want to see them as human, as redeemable, yet another part of me is ready to sign a declaration of total war on them.

As for respect? No. They do not earn respect. Not my respect at least. They prey on the weak and defenseless. They act cool because they think it's cool to defy the law. They are not heroes.

I strongly dislike it when people abuse the quote button as a proverbial butcher's knive in order to unnecessarily chop up a post with decent flow and coherency.

It's insulting to people's intelligence who actually bother reading the threads here. They don't need you to cut up mine nor others thoughts for them before attempting to mentally digest the ideological smorgasbord that is present in the SD of ZU.

/nit-picking

Originally Posted by Flames of Valor

That was a remark on their antic and structure. I don't respect them because they are criminals and a detriment to society as a whole.

^subjective statement. please elaborate.

So you respect Hitler then? I mean, now that you say that he sounds like a respectable chap to me.

you just committed a verbal fallacy of equating respect with respectable.

plz review fallacy sticky thread.

And gangs have style and quality?

I didn't use an absolute, and I will not let you cause me to digress from my original intended directional discourse.

The gang lifestyle has provided higher quality and arguably more sincere art than any corporate entity has ever given to us. This is could go off onto yet another tangent, but you see my point I hope.

What culture has the government given us?

(hint: ^ that's a trick question.)

Jeffrey Dahmer

^I'll read up on him later.

Fictional Hannibal probably has him beat anyways, yet I digress again.




/thread

They are mildly successful because they operate to take advantage of the failings of law enforcement and the justice system. Like I said, a more totalitarian policy would result in extremely efficient crackdowns.

^this is a brutish and clumsy. Hardly worth comparing to the finer nuances of the gang sub-culture.

Try what again?

thinking.

As long as you can distinguish respect from fear, I don't care.

oh. I wasn't aware that's all that you were getting at.

My bad. =P

Originally Posted by Erasmus

I strongly dislike it when people abuse the quote button as a proverbial butcher's knive in order to unnecessarily chop up a post with decent flow and coherency.

It's insulting to people's intelligence who actually bother reading the threads here. They don't need you to cut up mine nor others thoughts for them before attempting to mentally digest the ideological smorgasbord that is present in the SD of ZU.

/nit-picking

It's to address certain points in an organized fashion: Here is the point, here is my counter point.

^subjective statement. please elaborate.

I don't respect gang bangers because they are basically urban terrorists. They use fear to manipulate people. They rob, and murder people. Hell, sometimes initiation is to kill someone. They contribute nothing to society, merely take away, either by hurting people, or rotting in jail. They are a detriment and deserve no respect, only contempt.

you just committed a verbal fallacy of equating respect with respectable.

plz review fallacy sticky thread.

No, I suggested by speaking of Hitlers acts in a favorable light that you respected him. Since the subject at hand was whether or not Hitler was to be respected for certain aspects, and you responded accordingly with positive things to say, you effectively answered my question, yes. So, if he is to be respected, then is he not respectable in your eyes? Regardless, I was merely being facetious when I suggested he was respectable.

You never answered my question.

I didn't use an absolute, and I will not let you cause me to digress from my original intended directional discourse.

The gang lifestyle has provided higher quality and arguably more sincere art than any corporate entity has ever given to us. This is could go off onto yet another tangent, but you see my point I hope.

What culture has the government given us?

(hint: ^ that's a trick question.)

Um, no, what from a gang is of higher quality than from a legal industry? Is art illegal?

^I'll read up on him later.

Fictional Hannibal probably has him beat anyways, yet I digress again.

Well, look at him, tell me if he is respectable.

^this is a brutish and clumsy. Hardly worth comparing to the finer nuances of the gang sub-culture.

Mind enlightening me about these 'finer nuances'?

thinking.

About?

oh. I wasn't aware that's all that you were getting at.

My bad. =P

Originally Posted by Flames of Valor

It's to address certain points in an organized fashion: Here is the point, here is my counter point.

I still think it's insulting to others intelligence, even if the intentions were merely for convenience of debate.

I don't respect gang bangers because they are basically urban terrorists. They use fear to manipulate people. They rob, and murder people. Hell, sometimes initiation is to kill someone. They contribute nothing to society, merely take away, either by hurting people, or rotting in jail. They are a detriment and deserve no respect, only contempt.

lol @ urban terrorists. Many of them are not, but it depends on which type of gangs you are talking about.

No, I suggested by speaking of Hitlers acts in a favorable light that you respected him. Since the subject at hand was whether or not Hitler was to be respected for certain aspects, and you responded accordingly with positive things to say, you effectively answered my question, yes. So, if he is to be respected, then is he not respectable in your eyes? Regardless, I was merely being facetious when I suggested he was respectable.

respectable=/= respected necessarily. It's a fine semantically difference.

Respectable infers that you agree with his principles. Respect as I was using the word infers that you should at the very least pay him heed and give him credit where credit is due.

Subtle difference perhaps, but completely changes the perspective--as I'm sure saw from the beginning.

You never answered my question.

I thought I did. He should be respected for his military tactics and also his political ambition, not for his principals, ideals, and usage of said skills.

also, Godwins law.

Um, no, what from a gang is of higher quality than from a legal industry?

Music, culture. Industry is the antithesis of the latter, and can be expressed through the former.

Is art illegal?

Some art is, and it depends on geography, of course.

Well, look at him, tell me if he is respectable.

Maybe tomorrow when I'm less buzzed. :3

Mind enlightening me about these 'finer nuances'?

Just read any well-written book pertaining to gang culture in the US.
It will be much more accurate than my pondering thoughts.

About?

no direct object required, just doing the verb suffices.

Originally Posted by Erasmus

lol @ urban terrorists. Many of them are not, but it depends on which type of gangs you are talking about.

What types of gangs are there?

respectable=/= respected necessarily. It's a fine semantically difference.

Respectable infers that you agree with his principles. Respect as I was using the word infers that you should at the very least pay him heed and give him credit where credit is due.

Subtle difference perhaps, but completely changes the perspective--as I'm sure saw from the beginning.

Respectable infers that he is worthy of your respect in some regard.

I thought I did. He should be respected for his military tactics and also his political ambition, not for his principals, ideals, and usage of said skills.

I'm going to assume that you think Jeffrey Dahmer should be respected for his skill in human butchery then? That's all Hitler used them for, his inhumane acts. How can they earn respect when used for such a purpose?

also, Godwins law.

/facepalm

Music, culture. Industry is the antithesis of the latter, and can be expressed through the former.

None of those are explicitly properties of gangs. Nor are they illegal activities.

Some art is, and it depends on geography, of course.

Of course the term art IS subjective.

Just read any well-written book pertaining to gang culture in the US.
It will be much more accurate than my pondering thoughts.

I'm not talking about the culture they inspired, I am talking about their negative impact on the world. I also want your thoughts