Obama- Good or Bad for the Nation?

Originally Posted by Anann

You shouldn't have to pay a dime for healthcare. How goddamned long is it going to be before americans finally understand that?

You can't not pay for healthcare. Doctors aren't free you know.

Originally Posted by Unit7

Now I think I will get a better and more unbiased response from ZU.

my how things have changed.

anyway:

I haven't read the actual bills being voted on, but based on what I could conclude from Pres. O's address to congress a couple weeks ago, the plan seems pretty solid, and there's no reason it shouldn't pass, save a hopeless filibuster.

I don't even think the "gang of [instert number here]" could stop it from being passed at this point, although they'd certainly cause trouble.

Really. Go over to the UK, they don't pay a damn thing. Hell they give you cab fare to go home.

Are americans REALLY that stupid? REALLY? It's beginning to get on my nerves. How amazingly obtuse and how throughly the populace is wrapped around the finger of the corporate majority. Hey, believe it or not, privatized healthcare is a BAD thing.

Originally Posted by Anann

Are americans REALLY that stupid? REALLY?

Yes. But don't say that in public here; you're not allowed to call anything with the word "American" in it stupid, dumb, foolish, or any synonym of. You are allowed, however, to demonize people who are rational and on the right side of the issue and make up and spread propaganda about them.

Originally Posted by Anann

Really. Go over to the UK, they don't pay a damn thing. Hell they give you cab fare to go home.

Are americans REALLY that stupid? REALLY? It's beginning to get on my nerves. How amazingly obtuse and how throughly the populace is wrapped around the finger of the corporate majority. Hey, believe it or not, privatized healthcare is a BAD thing.

Originally Posted by Anann

Really. Go over to the UK, they don't pay a damn thing. Hell they give you cab fare to go home.

Are americans REALLY that stupid? REALLY? It's beginning to get on my nerves. How amazingly obtuse and how throughly the populace is wrapped around the finger of the corporate majority. Hey, believe it or not, privatized healthcare is a BAD thing.

Someones paying for your healthcare. It's not 'free', so you're wrong. Or do taxes not count as money anymore?

Tyras, I love that picture. Although, the same could be said of the liberal side. And you can't deny that. Perhaps not as extreme as Glenn Beck, both sides are guilty of it. But, I'm still LOLing over it.

Like many people have said before, it's really too soon to determine. I'm wary of the healthcare reform, mostly because of the amount of money it's going to cost, the money it's taking away from programs like Medicare, and my lack of trust of the government on its ability to be efficient when regulating/enforcing the policy.

As for the other issues, I don't know too much about them to make an informed decision. Troops out of Iraq would be nice (but not all at the moment), and the supposed economic turnaround can only be good. We'll just have to wait and see.

Let's start from the simple platform of "quality healthcare is a human right that everyone is entitled to" and from the equally simple platform of "in order to receive rightful entitlements, you must pay your share in taxes."

At that point, it becomes the government's responsibility to ensure that every taxpayer can receive quality healthcare, with insurance companies having to comply. This does not happen under the current system - insurance companies charge too much for healthcare to be accessible to the point of being considered an entitlement.

Originally Posted by Lunchbox*

Tyras, I love that picture. Although, the same could be said of the liberal side. And you can't deny that. Perhaps not as extreme as Glenn Beck, both sides are guilty of it. But, I'm still LOLing over it.

oh no, MSNBC is just as bad as fox in my opinion, it's just that Fox makes it too easy to make fun of them.

Originally Posted by Tyras

oh no, MSNBC is just as bad as fox in my opinion, it's just that Fox makes it too easy to make fun of them.

True. The only real un-biased source when dealing with American issues would probably have to be BBC because they're foreign.

Obama's better than Bush, at least.

As for public health care, one part of me says, "Well, I don't care about everyone, so why should I care about public healthcare and want to pay higher taxes?"

Then, I'm like, "Well, in order to maintain a healthy free market, certain things need to be socialized; education to prepare people to compete in the market, and healthcare so that people remain capable of functioning in society, and leave it that. If they benefit, it would result in me benefitting, as well."

Then, I'm like, "But I hate big government, so wouldn't this be giving the government a greater presence instead of achieving the libertarian goal of lessening the government's presence?"

So, yeah, for me, it's not a question on whether or not public healthcare is a good thing for everyone, because it probably is.

At least the idea of a public healthcare option while allowing private healthcare businesses to remain is a fair compromise to which I'm not opposed.

Originally Posted by Andross

Then, I'm like, "Well, in order to maintain a healthy free market, certain things need to be socialized; education to prepare people to compete in the market, and healthcare so that people remain capable of functioning in society, and leave it that. If they benefit, it would result in me benefitting, as well."

Then, I'm like, "But I hate big government, so wouldn't this be giving the government a greater presence instead of achieving the libertarian goal of lessening the government's presence?"

So, yeah, for me, it's not a question on whether or not public healthcare is a good thing for everyone, because it probably is.

Yikes. I find this mentality frightening. Do you care about other people? I'd pay more taxes just so fewer people suffer.

Originally Posted by Flames of Valor

Someones paying for your healthcare. It's not 'free', so you're wrong. Or do taxes not count as money anymore?

It sure isn't free, but it's a hell of a lot cheaper.

Originally Posted by Mad Hatter

It sure isn't free, but it's a hell of a lot cheaper.

I'd be a fool to deny that

i really dislike obama. not only is he pulling out of the middle east too early but he doesn`t want to compromise when it comes to health care reform.

^ Yeah forget about everything else. Stay in the Middle East and search for Osama Bin Laden. Come out come out wherever you are! *grabs binoculars*

I swear I can't wait to die and leave this sad world.

Originally Posted by Oni Dark Link

i really dislike obama. not only is he pulling out of the middle east too early but he doesn`t want to compromise when it comes to health care reform.

yep, who needs all of that money we're wasting on an unneccessary war and on occupying a country that no one, from alexander the great to the Russians, has ever been able to hold in the history of the world.

As for Healthcare, there is nothing to compromise on. public insurance works plain and simple. this has been demonstrated.

Originally Posted by Oni Dark Link

i really dislike obama. not only is he pulling out of the middle east too early but he doesn`t want to compromise when it comes to health care reform.

He's pulling out of "IRAQ" early, not the middle east. From his own words he plans to stay in Afghanistan until the war is won.

And he has compromised far to much on health care reform, he's willing to drop the public option! If that's not compromise what the hell is?

Yikes. I find this mentality frightening. Do you care about other people? I'd pay more taxes just so fewer people suffer.

To be honest, it's difficult for me to care for people I haven't met/know to an extent. Considering that most people are spiteful and/or patronizing at first contact to begin with, it's easier for me to care for people that have revealed their natures to me than care for people who I have no knowledge of.

Originally Posted by Anann

Really. Go over to the UK, they don't pay a damn thing.

They still pay, they just pay it as taxes rather than individually.

Why do people think Obama is providing free health care? Its really no different. The only change is who you pay. Now you are paying slightly higher taxes to the government rather than pay the insurance company.

Only an idiot calculates their monthly expeditures using their earnings before taxes, are you trying to tell me that you are that foolish?

That money was never yours to begin with. You never touched it you never had it.

Part of your money already goes to healthcare, under the new HCP you'd actually get to use it.