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Momo 02-20-2012 06:30 PM

First Three Temples in Twilight Princess
 
Has anyone else thought that the first three dungeons in TP, the Forest Temple, the Goron Mines, and the Lakebed Temple are just evolved forms of The Great Deku Tree, The Fire Temple, and the Water Temple?

I've felt like this ever since I played the game and thought it was kind of cool. I mean, TP does take place a couple hundred years after OoT, so it's not impossible.

I just thought it was a really neat thought and a subtle touch if that was their intent.

Her Grace 02-20-2012 10:37 PM

While I do think the Lakebed Temple in Twilight Princess is most likely the Water Temple in Ocarina of Time, seeing as the likeliness of there being two temples co-existing under the same lake is a bit far-fetched, I don't think the Goron Mines is the Fire Temple or that the Deku Tree is the Forest Temple for their own reasons.

The Fire Temple is located within the very top of the creater of Death Mountain, whereas the Goron Mines are located near the bottom of the mountain. Likewise, we don't actually go to Death Mountain, let alone its crater, in Twilight Princess. We only ever get to stay on its very outskirts near its surface and see it in the background. The mountain itself along with its crater are inaccessible seeing as it's turned into a huge ball of lava. The Fire Temple was mostly a physically built temple-like structure, whereas the Goron Mines were just that: mines with hardly any building structure.

The Great Deku Tree is located deep within the sacred Kokiri Forest, a hidden and frobidden place that few or none can find, but the Forest Temple is casually in the Faron Woods that anyone can access. Evidentially, the Faron Woods is also non-magical and ordinary, whereas Kokiri Forest has glowing particles flying around everywhere and it's very isolated. In Skyward Sword, we see a huge tree towering over the Faron Woods and it can be seen from a distance towering over the rest of the woods. It has lots of water inside it. In Twilight Princess, when viewed from a distance, the Forest Temple is a huge tree towering over the entire Faron Woods. It has a lake at its very depths.

So while I agree that the Lakebed Temple is likely the Water Temple because there co-existence at the same lake clashes, the location of the the other two don't fit. It's the bottom surrounding area vs. the crater of Death Mountain and deep within the hidden Kokiri Forest vs. the very public and open Faron Woods. I do think the Great Tree = Forest Temple is likely, seeing as they can't really co-exist without there being two giant trees towering over the woods. Since we only ever see one, they're likely the same gigantic tree that towers of the woods.

Teekay 02-20-2012 11:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eternal Legend (Post 4589673)
Well it's pretty obvious.

Where else would the Water Temple be? Where else would the Fire Temple be?

And TP's Forest Temple does rest within a large dead tree.



I'd be interested to see how they're not those dungeons from OoT.

It's not pretty obvious, except for the water temples.

Let's start with Skyward Sword's Great Tree. It would be pretty obvious that this is the same tree from Twilight Princess, yes? But how and why would a regular tree gain a persona, becoming the Deku Tree? And if the Forest Temple from TP really is within the Deku Tree, where is the rest of the Kokiri Forest? Where are their houses? Heck, where are the Kokiri? It makes much more sense to say that they're separate places. There's a Great Tree, and there's a Deku Tree. The Great Tree lies within the Faron Woods, an open area that anyone can access. The Deku Tree lies within the sacred Kokiri Forest.

As for the Goron Mines being the Fire Temple... no. As Her Grace already pointed out, the Fire Temple is an actual temple built deep within Death Mountain itself. The Goron Mines on the other hand mostly consist of caverns and machinery used for mining, and it's not within Death Mountain's crater. Just look outside prior to entering the mines-- the peak is still kinda far away.

Spoon Link 02-21-2012 12:37 AM

I think that the mountain where the Gorons live in TP is actually Mt. Crenel because of the spring water and the mines.

Flappyeyeball 02-21-2012 01:04 AM

I actually agree with 'Her grace' about the mines.

Those mines looked to be nothing more than mines, as they are dubbed. And, yes, you don't exactly go in death mountain like in OOT.

The forest, however, I am not so sure about... It is pretty far fetched for the tree you walk into on the outside of the temple to be the Deku tree, but saying it needs to be hidden along with the kokiri doesn't have to be true.
Who is to say the Deku trees haven't stopped resprouting and the kokiri stopped reoccuring along with it? Hyrule's geography changes constantly along with the beings within it. Kokiri were very hidden and secluded so no one would know if they died out or not let alone raise a fuss over it. The Zora's and Gorons are reasonable to stick around, to me anyway.

But, we don't really explore all of the forest and can't know for sure. Plus it's a tad bold of me to assume an entire race vanished like that, seeing how on the adult timeline they survive a flood.

Kasuto 02-21-2012 02:05 AM

I agree that the Forest Temple and the Goron Mines are likely not the Great Deku Tree and the Fire Temple. I would also argue that the Lakebed Temple is not the Water Temple, because Lake Hylia in TP seems to be a different lake from the one in OOT. Remember that the Temple of Time is at the same location in both games (this is confirmed by HH). It cannot be the same lake.

StinksAwakening 02-21-2012 11:00 AM

The Forest Temple seems to me to be the former Kokiri Forest, redesigned as a habitat or refuge for the monkeys, and other critters.

Goron Mines is probably the former Dodongo's Cavern. It serves the exact same purpose.

The Lakebed Temple is, of course, the Water Temple. The location and function are primarily the same.

Fal'Cie 02-21-2012 02:10 PM

I agree with Her Grace, the first two are unlikely to be the same. The fire dungeons are in different parts of the same mountain and the Forest Temple was a multitude of trees, while the Deku Tree was obviously one.

The Water Temples are probably the same, but I'd say the TP one was an even deeper branch in order to protect the Fused Shadow.

Feline Witch 02-21-2012 02:30 PM

I think the Goron Mines are the Dodongo's Cavern rather then the Fire Temple. It is possible that since the Sages never needed to be awakened, some of the temples have fallen into ruin. (The Temple of Time seems like the remains of OoT's Forest Temple, perhaps the ruined Forest Temple has had its entrance enchanted into being a portal to the ToT.)

Lakebed Temple seems to be the Water Temple. The Zoras seem to still use it for worshipping lake spirits, and the main chamber of the Lakebed Temple is eerily similar to the main chamber of the Water Temple.

Lazara the Last 02-21-2012 04:40 PM

I think the reason that the master sword/temple of time is in castle town in OoT, but in a forest in all other games is that it was better to have the place you time traveled in OoT in the castle town rather then the forest. It is in the forest inn all the other ones ..

Mack 02-21-2012 05:37 PM

The doors inside the Forest Temple in TP bear the Kokiri Symbol. Therefore, it's possible that the Forest Temple (TP) is somewhat related to the Deku Tree... if not, it probably has a good connection to the Kokiri in general.

n0va 02-21-2012 06:57 PM

I agree with other people saying that the goron mines and the fire temples are two distinct places; however, I do believe that the forest temple might of been the deku tree. Think about it; he pretty much died, and nothing shows that there was a great deku sprout in the child timeline, so i figure the deku tree decomposed over time which is why the kokiri aren't around any longer. As for the Oot water temple, if one believes that the bridges above lake hylia(TP) are in the same location as they were in Oot, then the water temple became Lanayru's shrine while the water level dropped more and the lake became even deeper.

Her Grace 02-21-2012 08:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by n0va (Post 4591608)
I do believe that the forest temple might of been the deku tree. Think about it; he pretty much died, and nothing shows that there was a great deku sprout in the child timeline, so i figure the deku tree decomposed over time which is why the kokiri aren't around any longer.

As in my previous post, I bring up the issue of how there is a giant tree tower over the Faron Woods in Skyward Sword, but your theory implies it disappeared and was replaced by a giant dead Deku Tree who should be in Kokiri Forest and not Faron Woods. We see the Faron Woods and a giant tree in Skyward Sword, but the Kokiri are absent. We see the Kokiri Forest and the Kokiri in Ocarina of Time. Then we seethe Faron Woods and giant tree in Twilight Princess, but the Kokiri are absent again. I think the most reasonable and logical solution is that we simply don't see the Kokiri Forest in Twilight Princess, nor do we see it in Skyward Sword. We know that that entire area is forbidden and secreted away, but the Faron Woods has never been hidden or secreted away unless we're to believe it went from public and changed its name to being public and changing its named back again.

In the same general location as to the Kokiri Forest and Faron Woods, there is the Minish Woods. Ultimately, where will that fall into the overall map? I think the simple case is that Hyrule has multiple forests located in the south. But again, as we see in Skyward Sword and Twilight Princess, the Faron Woods has a non-living giant tree towering above the rest of the woods and it's a public, non-magical place. But the Kokiri Forest is, like I said, a very magical place and secreted away place. It's forbidden and few can access it without becoming a Stalfos. This wasn't the case, quite the opposite, with the Faron Woods both before and after Ocarina of Time. So it seems we simply don't see the Kokiri in Twilight Princess because, like many locations in Hyrule, it wasn't accesible in that game. For example, where was it in The Minish Cap? We just got the Minish Woods in its general location, but no one seems to question their absence in that game, just in Twilight Princess.

keyaki 02-21-2012 10:30 PM

Quote:

But the Kokiri Forest is, like I said, a very magical place and secreted away place. It's forbidden and few can access it without becoming a Stalfos.
Don't you mean when entering the Lost Woods?

Personally, I still believe that the Faron Woods is the Kokiri Forest or more rather, the Lost Woods but just expanded over the centuries.

Blake G 02-21-2012 10:40 PM

my perspective:
Lakbed Temple is without a doubt the water temple
Forest Temple is possibly Inside the Deku tree, It certainly shares many features
Goron Mines is much more likely to be dodongo's cavern which is more likely to become a mine anyway, gorons eat rocks from dodono's cavern so it makes sense that they mine it. Plus it's much closer to the bottom of the mountain.

Her Grace 02-21-2012 10:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by keyaki (Post 4592117)
Don't you mean when entering the Lost Woods?

Personally, I still believe that the Faron Woods is the Kokiri Forest or more rather, the Lost Woods but just expanded over the centuries.

No, the K0kiri Forest is part of the overall "Forbidden Forest" dubbed by the Deku Tree. He describes both the forest and woods as being part of it. You can't get into the Kokiri Forest without going through the Lost Woods, in which case I calculate a 92% that you will become a Stalfos.

I will point out the huge difference between the Lost Woods and the Faron Woods: the Lost Woods is a bunch of bizarre and magical pathways that you can easily get lost in. Many who enter are transformed into either Stalfos (adults) or Skull Kids (children). The Faron Woods, however, are ordinary and non-magical woods. Unlike the Lost Woods, the Faron Woods isn't a bunch of tiny spaces with the only way to get around being holes or knocked over trees. It's a very claustrophobic and dark environment, but the Faron Woods is very wide and open, and also has light. able to reach through it.

An issue with the Kokiri Forest and/or Lost Woods expanding into the Faron Woods is, well, the fact that the latter already exists before Ocarina of Time even takes place. As we seen in Skyward Sword, the Faron Woods already existed before Ocarina of Time and it's already huge and takes up most of the Faron Province. Also, if we're going to go by lining up geography, the Kokiri Forest and Lost Woods is located to the east of Faron Woods and the Minish Woods falls somewhere among them. Something that we do see in Twilight Princess and Skyward Sword, however, is that within the Faron Woods are what you might consider smaller "suburbs" within the overall woods: the Sealed Grounds/Sacred Grove is its own area within the woods to the west. The Kokiri Forest and Lost Woods should, by that logic, also be in their own areas within the overall Faron Woods, except located to the east of the woods. I believe the overall Faron Woods is the name of the entire region, but it houses the smaller Sealed Grounds/Sacred Grove, Minish Wooda, Lost Woods and Kokiri Forest. The Kokiri Forest itself is a small grove in a giant forest.


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