LoZ, a game devoid of life

Originally Posted by Master of ALttP

Heh heh. Here's a related question for you all. It involves math. *watches people run away* Okay, if everybody in the world lives in caves, then what's 255 plus 1?

255. Stoopid rupees.

Oh, and I believe that there are no towns in the original LoZ game is because real estate is so expensive in Southern Hyrule. That, and the residents could only carry 255 rupees, making a mortgage payment next to impossible.

Originally Posted by Jims

255. Stoopid rupees.

Oh, and I believe that there are no towns in the original LoZ game is because real estate is so expensive in Southern Hyrule. That, and the residents could only carry 255 rupees, making a mortgage payment next to impossible.

That made me smile.

The developers were probably just worried about finishing the game and getting it on the market instead of making it more realistic. Another idea is that it takes place in a different area of Hyrule where the only inhabitants are old men in caves who distribute wooden swords.

Originally Posted by HeroOfTime5

Why not? Look at OoT and ALttP. They had many villages when the land was in darkness.

ALttP had one village, and it was crawling with possessed soldiers. Hmm... yup, because of that, the villagers had to stay indoors because... hmm.... soldiers can't open doors!

OoT... the villages were taken over or had forced allegiance at one point or another... Kakoriko had been ignored for a while, Kokiri was taken over immediately, and Lon Lon Ranch had forced allegiance until you got Epona. So yes, they were taken over.

Thought of something else though. The old man at the beginning of Level 9? I think I've got a worthy theory. Maybe Ganon captured him and put him there, knowing that Link or any good hero wouldn't dare kill an old man because he's harmless, with the exception of 2 fires that shoot fireballs at you if you attack him! Obviously, Ganon took an old man and used him as a shield, so Link could only come when he had all 8 shards of the ToW, hitting 2 birds with one stone.

Well I have to say that it was nice not to have NPCs, they annoy the heck outta me. If your gonna put in NPCs, make them lovable and time withstanding, like ERROR from AoL. So I'm not complaining that there are none in here.

AM~

If you have ever read the storyline in the original players manual,, you would realize that Ganon attacked the peaceful little town of Hyrule and Gannon's evil henchmen (Including Molblins) imprisoned Princess Zelda and and sent out a party in search of Impa. During this dark pursuit the towns people fled for saftey anywhere they could find it. Impa herself braved forests and mountains as she fled for her life from her pursuers. The setting of The Legend of Zelda actually takes place in the outskirts of Hyrule where Impa fled. If you notice very carefully, all of the merchants and the old man are now living in caves and hideouts where they fled for safety from Ganon and his evil henchmen.

Now you made me wonder. You know Ganon's hideout in LoZ? It's on the northenmost segment of the map. That is, on Spectacle Rock, South of the Town Of Saria of AoL. Was Ganon gaining ground by the time Link caught up with him? Did he thoughtfully centralize himself between North and South Hyrule to, I dunno, overlook it all?

... Great. NOW I'm looking too deep into this.

Originally Posted by Mangione

Im pretty sure all of you have noticed this, but I don't know if anyone has given it any serious thought. Do you notice how all of the Zelda games from AoL onward have at least one large human settlement in them? AoL is studded with towns, Alttp and OoT have Kakariko Village, MM has Clock Town, WW has Windfall Island, but if you look at LoZ, you will see that there are no real towns or cities of any kind to be found anywhere in the game. All of the people you meet are in caves or hidden behind dungeon doors. In fact, the only thing which would come close to a settlement of any kind would be the Graveyard, where the Ghinis live!

My point is, what does that all mean? Why are there no cities in LoZ? Could it have any chronological significance? Could some great disaster, caused by Ganon or some other power, have caused all traces of advanced civilization to be eliminated? Or could the creators of Zelda I have simply overlooked the idea of establishing any prominent cities in the game? And left you to wander across a barren wasteland of rock, sand, dirt, water, and trees with the only signs of life being the scattered people hiding in caves, and of course, the monsters trying with all due effort to destroy you?

Well, it was the first game, and Nintendo wasn't about to put a whole lot of effort into a game they think might be a success. But besides that fact, I have a theory that LoZ comes after TWW and PH because when the water drains, the land is left barren. The question is, is where did Hyrule Castle go and stuff... I'm trying to incorporate this into my timeline theory, but it is undergoing so many edits, I'm not sure what it looks like anymore But w/e, those are my opinions

Originally Posted by HeroOfTime5

First game ever on NES. Of course it won't be "advanced". If you notice there is also no characters either besides wise men and women. If anything if you believe it has something to do with the timeline I remember seeing this one quote in the manual. It says something something "in a small kingdom of Hyrule". Maybe that small kingdom wasn't so populated.

If anything, it's the other way around entirely -- the "small kingdom of Hyrule" was the kingdom seen in Ocarina of Time and Zelda III, not in The Legend of Zelda and Zelda II, which featured a kingdom of Hyrule at least four to five times larger in scope than the more "ancient" holdings of the later games in the series.

Originally Posted by HeroOfTime5

Why not? Look at OoT and ALttP. They had many villages when the land was in darkness.

Another point to consider:

Is it any coincidence that the graveyard in LoZ lies *directly* over the same land once occupied by Kakariko Village in the timeframe of Zelda III?

Methinketh not. As a matter of fact, that map of Hyrule as it existed in the original Legend of Zelda was the thematic basis for the design of Z3's own map by the Japanese team back in the early '90s. Using this, it's quite clear that the Japanese staff intended to have some as-yet-undefined tragedy occur to Kakariko during the centuries between ALttP and LoZ/AoL, but what that is, we can't say.

Very likely, as mentioned above, it was some sort of catastrophe involving the decimation of major sites such as the southern Hyrule Castle and Kakariko, leading to the relocation of the government far in the north, and the apparent destruction of the town. Connecting the dots between the games, the villagers evidently buried their dead upon the site of the old town (now a haunted, ghost-ridden environment), and then fled to the more remote lands of the north, settling towns like Rauru, Mido, and Saria, and expanding the kingdom to several times its former size than was seen in Ocarina of Time and Zelda III.

Whether Ganon himself was directly responsible is -- again -- another to-be-revealed point of information, but one of my original early hopes for Twilight Princess was that it would be the game that would finally answer these same questions (set chronologically between Zelda III and the first Legend of Zelda), and bridge that gap in the storytelling. Alas, this was not to be, but there's always the future.

Originally Posted by Lightweight

Now you made me wonder. You know Ganon's hideout in LoZ? It's on the northenmost segment of the map. That is, on Spectacle Rock, South of the Town Of Saria of AoL. Was Ganon gaining ground by the time Link caught up with him? Did he thoughtfully centralize himself between North and South Hyrule to, I dunno, overlook it all?

... Great. NOW I'm looking too deep into this.

Going by the games themselves, Ganon is in his absolute weakest state that we ever see him in during the events of The Legend of Zelda, having been incarnated or reincarnated at least five times beforehand (OoT, tWW, TP, ALttP, LoZ). By this point, the scope of the kingdom of Hyrule had grown to eclipse the territorial size -- and presumably, the military strength -- of itself as presented in Ocarina and other games, and thus Ganon was forced to hole up further south in the "wastelands" of Hyrule, where he could assumedly recuperate and avoid open confrontation with the armies of the kingdom.

Remaining out of contact in a region nearly devoid of major population would ensure that he maximized his chances for success until he was ready to face the King of Hyrule head-on in open warfare. It's no coincidence that each subsequent reincarnation depowered him significantly from the one before (Massively Obvious Real-Life Reason: the games were largely designed in reverse chronological order), and though it's possible that in the first game Link caught Ganon in a very early, weakened state, it took more and more to revive him as the centuries passed, with proportionately diminishing results.

The reason LoZ has not many inhabitants is because it's set in southern Hyrule and southern Hyrule is quite mountainous terrain, so building towns and villages there would be very difficult. Plus it's only like a sixth of the actual size of Hyrule.

However, that southwestern corner of the country from the original first two games is the exact same region depicted in Ocarina of Time and Zelda III, and it was plenty lush and sylvan and fertile back during those eras.

It's only during the Legend of Zelda/Adventure of Link timeframe that it's become this barren, desolate, hardscrabble terrain, but prior to this it essentially was the entire kingdom of Hyrule; lock, stock, and Octorok; with plenty of available city/village space in any of the eras.

Originally Posted by Mangione

Im pretty sure all of you have noticed this, but I don't know if anyone has given it any serious thought. Do you notice how all of the Zelda games from AoL onward have at least one large human settlement in them? AoL is studded with towns, Alttp and OoT have Kakariko Village, MM has Clock Town, WW has Windfall Island, but if you look at LoZ, you will see that there are no real towns or cities of any kind to be found anywhere in the game. All of the people you meet are in caves or hidden behind dungeon doors. In fact, the only thing which would come close to a settlement of any kind would be the Graveyard, where the Ghinis live!

My point is, what does that all mean? Why are there no cities in LoZ? Could it have any chronological significance? Could some great disaster, caused by Ganon or some other power, have caused all traces of advanced civilization to be eliminated? Or could the creators of Zelda I have simply overlooked the idea of establishing any prominent cities in the game? And left you to wander across a barren wasteland of rock, sand, dirt, water, and trees with the only signs of life being the scattered people hiding in caves, and of course, the monsters trying with all due effort to destroy you?

I quess they never thought over it...

IT was southern hyrule, an unpopulated area. Is that enough for you?

It's a video game, what do you expect? Miyamoto-san probably didn't expect the game to do all that well in the states with or without villages, plus the only was programmed in to "talk" to someone was to enter their house and they would, letter by letter, tell you one sentence.
He and the rest of the Nintendo team didn't think it would do as well as the higher up priority at the time, Super Mario Bros. They shoved it aside to finish SMB, then did more work.

Towns or no Towns, it was a really fun game, who knows, maybe ganon was finished destroying local towns by the time link started.

Originally Posted by Mangione

Im pretty sure all of you have noticed this, but I don't know if anyone has given it any serious thought. Do you notice how all of the Zelda games from AoL onward have at least one large human settlement in them? AoL is studded with towns, Alttp and OoT have Kakariko Village, MM has Clock Town, WW has Windfall Island, but if you look at LoZ, you will see that there are no real towns or cities of any kind to be found anywhere in the game. All of the people you meet are in caves or hidden behind dungeon doors. In fact, the only thing which would come close to a settlement of any kind would be the Graveyard, where the Ghinis live!

My point is, what does that all mean? Why are there no cities in LoZ? Could it have any chronological significance? Could some great disaster, caused by Ganon or some other power, have caused all traces of advanced civilization to be eliminated? Or could the creators of Zelda I have simply overlooked the idea of establishing any prominent cities in the game? And left you to wander across a barren wasteland of rock, sand, dirt, water, and trees with the only signs of life being the scattered people hiding in caves, and of course, the monsters trying with all due effort to destroy you?

I totally know what you mean. One of the main reasons that I don't play LoZ much anymore is because there is no town in which I am safe from the monsters...

hey you are right. Every game from AoL on does have at least one full human town. But that's weird that LoZ doesn't have one