OOT/MM appeal to a more mature audience.

I was browsing some Zelda videos on Youtube, speed runs and general game-play videos whilst bored and it just occurred to me that OOT/MM seem, to me, to be the most mature titles. Now, I'm not quite sure why this is, maybe it's simply due to playing them as a child and finding them more difficult than I do today, but the general feel, music and game-play appeal to me more now (at 21 years of age) than any of the other titles prior or post to the release of these games. Maybe that's why these games are favoured over the others, not just because they were the "better" games. Thoughts?

Leaving Majora's Mask aside, I think both Twilight Princess and Skyward Sword are thematically more mature games than Ocarina of Time. Both games feature visual sacrifices (one voluntary and one involuntary) and have round characters (e.g., Midna and Groose). I prefer Ocarina of Time, though, in part because it doesn't suffer from the content-padding (i.e. fetch quests) found in later Zelda games, although I acknowledge that the later games do have more involved stories. What's more, I see Ocarina of Time as a generally lighthearted title, and I prefer that to games which try to tell overly complex and melodramatic stories. So, I don't think Ocarina of Time is as mature as some of the later Zelda games and it's actually partly because of this that I prefer it over those titles.

P.S. - As an example, I'm also quite fond of Chrono Trigger, which is more lighthearted than both its sequel and most RPGs of the last decade.

Originally Posted by SouthpawLink

Leaving Majora's Mask aside, I think both Twilight Princess and Skyward Sword are thematically more mature games than Ocarina of Time. Both games feature visual sacrifices (one voluntary and one involuntary) and have round characters (e.g., Midna and Groose). I prefer Ocarina of Time, though, in part because it doesn't suffer from the content-padding (i.e. fetch quests) found in later Zelda games, although I acknowledge that the later games do have more involved stories. What's more, I see Ocarina of Time as a generally lighthearted title, and I prefer that to games which try to tell overly complex and melodramatic stories. So, I don't think Ocarina of Time is as mature as some of the later Zelda games and it's actually partly because of this that I prefer it over those titles.

Thoguh i agree with you in general, especially in the point with the sacrifices, i have to say that OoT feels generally more adult to me. Less cuteness and japanese rpg elements, more lonelyness in general, and a less playful artstyle.

Originally Posted by Kamina

Thoguh i agree with you in general, especially in the point with the sacrifices, i have to say that OoT feels generally more adult to me. Less cuteness and japanese rpg elements, more lonelyness in general, and a less playful artstyle.

You've raised some good points. There are "cuter" characters in TWW-SS (including clowns), Link's partners have become characters and are front and center in both TP and SS (much to Aonuma's liking), and there's nothing post-MM that holds a candle to the blood-stained Shadow Temple.

I agree, I definitely think that OOT and MM appeal to a more mature audience. I played those games when I was very young, and when the boss fights came up I would have to hide under the covers while my Dad beat them for me, lolol. Although I'd like to say that I think nintendo tends to go back and forth with mature and more childish games. For example, Wind Waker was definitely a more child-friendly game, whereas Twilight Princess was definitely for a mature audience. And again, Skyward Sword tended to be just a bit more kid-friendly, with some mature elements. But again, there haven't been many games since OOT and MM that struck a similar level of maturity, but TP comes pretty close.

I can see where you would get this point of view. Although I didn't play OoT or MM until I was about 13, I definitely would have enjoyed it less at an age around ten-ish than the way I enjoy them now. To tell the truth, I probably would have hated MM a few years ago because the dark elements probably would have frightened me.

It's hard to say MM isn't a mature title, and there are a number of reasons.

1. Themes are much more involved and intricate. Consider as just a quick example, the moon children. Their questions are quite deep, and don't suggest true answers so much as reflection over time spent in life. A prerequisite of that is having actually spent a good amount of time on Earth, so that these questions don't just glaze over the player.

2. NPC storylines are extremely complex. The entire couples mask arc adequately articulates the motivations, desires, fears, and love of just two characters. Add in the circus leader listening to Ballad of the Wind Fish, Igos du Ikana, and everyone else Link encounters, and it's apparent each one is more than just a shell. There is are complicated emotions behind every conversation, making the game a bit unreachable as a child.

3. The mood. The moon crashing, intense time pressures, general atmosphere of Clock Town and the surrounding burrows of Termina, even the name of the land itself imprints a solemn, quiet pressure to save... well, everything.


So yes, I see MM as an extremely mature game, and I prefer it because of those themes. There is so much to parse out in each play through, I think anyone who played it when younger should try again to see how much more of the story manifests.

Originally Posted by riserri

I was browsing some Zelda videos on Youtube, speed runs and general game-play videos whilst bored and it just occurred to me that OOT/MM seem, to me, to be the most mature titles. Now, I'm not quite sure why this is, maybe it's simply due to playing them as a child and finding them more difficult than I do today, but the general feel, music and game-play appeal to me more now (at 21 years of age) than any of the other titles prior or post to the release of these games. Maybe that's why these games are favoured over the others, not just because they were the "better" games. Thoughts?

I'm 11 and I love them to bits. I think TP and SS are more mature. (And again, I love them to bits.) Although I have to agree, MM is very dark. But I actually like dark games.

I think one reason that OoT and MM seem more mature is that you already lost. In other titles you are either just before or in the middle of some tragedy and are trying to stop it. In OoT gannondorf already won and you see just how bad he made it. At any point after you become an adult there is always a feeling of hopelessness. In MM too. No matter how far you get in a three day cycle its probably not the one where you save the day and everyone IS going to die, no exceptions

I think it seems to be more mature is because of how dark it is. Majoras mask was a pretty dark game also, like how the graphics were and how the dungeons and their bosses looked. Ocarina of time has a dark feel like when you walk around castle town when your an adult, theres redead all over the place. Ganondorfs castle is filled with dark things, how its made and how it looks. While Twilight Princess is also pretty dark at times, it's a more lively game, i mean this by the colors are bright, you can catch and collect bugs, theres more people you can interact with and they're usually pretty happy. Skyward Sword is the same way, You have Debby who is a dark character with dark dialogue but everywhere else its the opposite. I generally like when Zelda games have dark sides to them, especially how Ocarina Of Time was. It seems more real to me that way.

I definitely agree. Both games have very deep story lines, and require a lot of thinking. The "Adult Link Realm" from OoT (When Ganon has taken over hyrule) is very dark and more mature. I do also agree with who ever said Twilight Princess and Skyward sword are more mature as well.

Or is just that the audience that the games were aimed for at the time have just matured?

Granted MM is a maturer game and deals with some pretty weird concepts (Angry Japanese Mask Men, Theft, Inevitable Death)

Actually, disregard my initial comment, SS isn't as dark. I still think that Wind Waker is the darkest of the LoZs despite the cartoon graphics.

I have yet to see a console Zelda game that doesn't have several dark elements to it. One deals with a weird dark world that is about to be destroyed in 3 days and the others all deals with how Hyrule, its history and it's government are very corrupt, blood-soaked and downright doomed go to war over and over again. They are all dark. It seems as if only the handheld games are not dark except maybe for A Link to the Past's backstory. I am not going by artstyles either. The Wind Waker is cartoon-style but very grim if you pay attention to detail. Darker than Twilight Princess. For me, an artstyle and saturattion has zero factor in how dark a game is.

I don't think they're particularly more mature than the later games, though it depends on what the criteria is for judging the games is, I suppose. Personally, I think Wind Waker had the 'darkest' plot, so it wins in that regard. All of them generally have one 'dark' temple, one 'dark scene,' and a 'sad' ending, so I'm not entirely sure if one stands out over the other in the general sense.

OoT stirs me emotionally more than any of the others which is odd because it's the most simplistic of them all. I guess that I would rather have a simplistic plot that gets the job done while dealing with one theme adequately than have a 'serious' plot that's poorly done and deals with too many themes, most of which are dealt with ineffectively. However, I wouldn't mind an actual plot that dealt with multiple themes effectively over a simplistic one.

Majora's mask seems to me like the most mature of the games. Heck, the game itself is so metaphorical that as a kid you can't understand it let alone look at skull kid without getting scared.

Originally Posted by maricart140

I definitely agree. Both games have very deep story lines, and require a lot of thinking. The "Adult Link Realm" from OoT (When Ganon has taken over hyrule) is very dark and more mature. I do also agree with who ever said Twilight Princess and Skyward sword are more mature as well.

Deep thinking what? OoT has very little going on in the story department. Most of it is just vague comments used in order to give the illusion of depth. For example (if I'm remembering this correctly), the Shadow Temple sequence hints at the Hylians? using torture devices, but the never hints at the who or why, and it's never referenced later on in the series.

Originally Posted by mzxrules

Deep thinking what? OoT has very little going on in the story department. Most of it is just vague comments used in order to give the illusion of depth. For example (if I'm remembering this correctly), the Shadow Temple sequence hints at the Hylians? using torture devices, but the never hints at the who or why, and it's never referenced later on in the series.

Not like that, I meant as far as the puzzles go. Take the water temple for example. I'm pretty sure that dungeon alone made Thousands of people smash there controllers. Lol