The Message of Majora's Mask

You kidding, she wanted to kill em, hence the quote "Consume...I will consume EVERYTHING!!!"

Yeah what a great thread

I don't understand why this was never moved to Theorizing.

man this is great thoery, ill bet you surprised even some of trhe guys at nintendo lol

Something I wish I'd mentioned in the article: In Woodfall, you have to jump onto those monster plants as a Deku Scrub to get across the water. It's no big deal when I replay the game, but first time through those things were scary.

Originally Posted by Magic-Tech

Anyway, could I discuss the major problem I have with the theory here?
It’s the hell issue, certainly Majora’s emblem is found scattered about the place. But that only proves he has a link to it, and we knew that anyway considering one of his mask creatures is dwelling there! The more plausible explanation is that the desert is a pocket dimension created by Majora to house Twinmold.
Majora is perfectly capable of forming pocket dimensions, with the lunar dungeons as evidence. What’s more Twinmold has a link with the desert considering the sandstorm only flares up when they emerge to do battle then immediately becomes calm once they die.
There’s not even any evidence that the portal existed before recently when the Skullkid entered the tower to imprison the giant.

Yeah, that's what I kind of assumed before. But there is evidence it's existed for a while--all the artificial monuments and pyramids that fill the area.

But the angry Goddess theory apparently has clues so vague and frivolous only one person could pick up on them. That is why I can’t take it seriously.

Maybe because people don't expect this sort of depth in a videogame, and don't look for it? Everyone just looks at the Triforces or the pointing hand, says "Huh, that's pretty weird" and moves on. This happens in other forms of art--for instance, decades after the book The Turn of the Screw, a ghost story, was published, one person commented on how he thought the ghosts were just a product of the governess's imagination, and since then controversy has surrounded the book because of that. People don't always pick up on the creator's intent immediately, and sometimes it takes one person's radical interpretation years later to get people to look deeper.

I see no great mystery regarding either of these. It’s like trying to find the meaning behind a vase.

god forbid, it’s an easter egg?

Maybe. People have told me that the rule of Occam's Razor would state that these are simple easter eggs/scenic objects. I'd debate that, cause the appearance of the Triforce, there of all places, is very weird, and the game deliberately draws attention to it. The camera zooms in on the Triforce as you're entering the inverted tower, there's no way to miss it. Same deal with the emblem on the broken statue. The complete emblem is brightly plastered above the inverted statue as a reference. I think it's a simpler explanation that the designers were prodding players to put two and two together than to say this is all random meaningless crap the desingers threw in for *****s and giggles in a game that displays huge attention to details and is presented as a mystery.

Originally Posted by 3pic

I don't understand why this was never moved to Theorizing.

Because Zelda Theorists aren't fun people. The article explains my personal interpretation of the game, and it's meant for a general, less esoteric audience.

Originally Posted by Ando

Wow, that was an extremely interesting article; thank you for that. Which issue was that in?

Nintendo Power Vol. 136, with the Pokemon Gold/Silver cover.
From the main site comments:

Originally Posted by Average Gamer

While that was a good read, I have to disagree with Dan's article. The way he describes faith in the article seems like a blanket statement that can apply to any Zelda game. I find the weakest part of the article to be part nine, in which he seems to be telling the players how they should feel, while they might not feel that way at all. Dan also states that Termina is doomed because it has no faith, while earlier he stated that the people worshipped the Four Giants at that time.

Regarding the "redemption" of Termina, the people of Termina don't actually do anything. Link, a boy from the parallel world of Hyrule, goes around saving the day and helping everyone. There is no redemption if Link does everything. Dan also doesn't explain where the demon Majora came from. Finally, the people haven't actually lost faith in each other; they come together every year for the Carnival of Time.

There's a lot more I could say, but I'm on a tight schedule. While that was an interesting article, I do not agree with it.

In that Belief and Disbelief section, I meant to show how the designers were deliberately trying to instill certain emotions in the player at certain points in the game, such as when Tatl warns you of the evil lurking in the darkness in Woodfall Temple or when the camera zooms up in that big room in Snowhead. Sorry if you found the phrasing awkward.

Interesting point about the Carnival of Time, I haven't really analyzed that much though it's pretty important. You might be right--maybe Termina's people hadn't been so divided throughout it's history, and things had been going well aside from the early conflicts, which resulted in Majora being set free. Majora then uses Skull Kid and the moon to divide the happy people of Termina, scatter them across the world, cancel their carnival and destroy them.

About the conflict with the Giants and the Goddesses, here's my speculative interpretation. We know that the early people of Termina were aware of the Goddesses and the Triforce thanks to the Stone Tower statues. When the imp was spreading misery across Termina, the Goddesses didn't drive away the imp because they understood his pain and wanted him to find healing and forgiveness from the people of Termina, so that all could be well. The Giants, however, were obligated to honor the promise they had made to protect the people, as much as it pained them to banish their friend. The people of Termina loved the Giants because it was easier to have faith in the ones who were physically present. They felt like their world had been abandoned by the Goddesses, same as Anju's mother feels abandoned by Tortus, Link feels abandoned by Navi, etc. They go on a search for these missing Goddesses to achieve their revenge. So the Stone Tower stands as a rejection of the themes the story advocates: faith, healing, forgiveness, acceptance of loss. The problem isn't that the people of Termina worshiped the Giants--it's easy to believe this worship continue after the events of the game--the problem is that this perspective led to the construction of the Stone Tower, which led Termina's people to Majora.

Regarding the "faith as a blanket statement" claim: yes, faith can be a common theme in stories, but you won't find it expressed to this extent in all the other Zeldas. Twilight Princess's main theme is the issue of selfishness vs. selflessness, another common theme in stories, but I'd have to stretch MM's story to claim that that theme is at the center of the game, just as I'd have to stretch TP's story to say that it's all about faith. Once I noticed the theme of faith in MM, most of the examples I used in the article jumped out at me. As I was skimming the text dump, I'd notice countless examples of how the text was connected to this theme. Examples of the common selfishness/selflessness theme might be present, but they won't jump out the way the faith examples do in MM, and the reverse is true if you look through TP's text dump.


There are many stories that express the same message or themes as Majora's Mask, or look at different aspects of it. Someone pointed out in another thread that MM might contain an homage to the movie Milo & Otis, which is a story about two best friends who are separated and search for each other. Shadow of the Colossus (spoiler ahead) is about how a person who can't cope with the loss of a loved one is so weakened that he falls into a demon's trap ("You were only being used!"), just as Skull Kid was so weakened by the loss of the Giants that he fell into Majora's trap ("A puppet that can no longer be used is mere garbage").

Then there's Pooh's Grand Adventure (considered by some parents to be too dark and scary for a Pooh movie), which is almost identical to Majora's Mask thematically. Here are some songs from it for anyone interested--notice the similar emotions and themes expressed here that you find in MM. If you watch the whole movie they're even more obvious:
Forever and Ever
Adventure is a Wonderful Thing--Owl is like a variation of the Happy Mask Salesman here.
If It Says So--Rabbit scoffs at the notion of faith.
Wherever You Are
Everything is Right--Same happy ending, everyone's fears turn out to be insubstantial

Originally Posted by Hylian Dan

Maybe because people don't expect this sort of depth in a videogame, and don't look for it?

That's a pretty bad argument Dan. With that reasoning, any crazy theorist could claim that their theory was correct, even if it basically made not one lick of sense.

Originally Posted by Hylian Dan

Because Zelda Theorists aren't fun people. The article explains my personal interpretation of the game, and it's meant for a general, less esoteric audience.

No offense Dan, but if this isn't debated and looked into, then there's a very good chance that you are off the mark. Theorists try to see if stuff like this is actually plausible and well-supported.

Originally Posted by Hylian Dan

Interesting point about the Carnival of Time, I haven't really analyzed that much though it's pretty important. You might be right--maybe Termina's people hadn't been so divided throughout it's history, and things had been going well aside from the early conflicts, which resulted in Majora being set free.

Dan, we have no reason to believe that there ever was a being called Majora.

Originally Posted by Hylian Dan

When the imp was spreading misery across Termina, the Goddesses didn't drive away the imp because they understood his pain and wanted him to find healing and forgiveness from the people of Termina, so that all could be well.

Dan, when the Four Giants left the people, they basically made a comment along the lines of "if a flood or something like it is going to kill you all, call us". In other words, something pretty serious. Now, Skull Kid basically went berserk and started wronging everyone for a rather poor reason. Seeing as how the people resorted to the Four Giants, I'd say that Skull Kid was up to some horrific deeds. When the Four Giants are summoned, they don't kindly dismiss Skull Kid; they threaten to tear him apart. If the Four Giants, kind and benevolent as they are, are willing to kill Skull Kid, I truly doubt that his deeds were excusable.

Furthermore, there's a chance that the people ultimately did forgive Skull Kid; in MM, we not only see him in Termina when he meets the fairies, but numerous characters refer to interacting with him (instead of sicking the Giants on him). In addition to this, he is the one wronging them, albeit wearing Majora's Mask (cursing Kafei for no reason, threatening to break the astronomer's equipment and steal his Moon's Tear, killing the Deku Butler's Son, etc.). With this in mind, there's a chance that the Terminians forgave Skull Kid anyway, so the destruction of Termina would be completely unwarranted.

Originally Posted by Hylian Dan

They go on a search for these missing Goddesses to achieve their revenge.

It appears that only the Ikanians possibly did that, and they all died out long ago anyway. I also doubt that Ikana has any ties to Majora's Mask, seeing as how King Igos Du Ikana makes no mention of it, only saying that "someone," opened the doors to the Stone Tower.

Originally Posted by Hylian Dan

Regarding the "faith as a blanket statement" claim: yes, faith can be a common theme in stories, but you won't find it expressed to this extent in all the other Zeldas. Twilight Princess's main theme is the issue of selfishness vs. selflessness, another common theme in stories, but I'd have to stretch MM's story to claim that that theme is at the center of the game, just as I'd have to stretch TP's story to say that it's all about faith.

Dan, I don't have time to go over the whole article again, but in many places you tried to stretch out any faith elements found in the sidequests and attempted to tie them into your Stone Tower theory (which, as you once said yourself, was shot down on the other forums you posted it on). It just seems like a small amount of evidence that relies more on how it is presented than its actual weight.

Originally Posted by Hylian Dan

Shadow of the Colossus (spoiler ahead) is about how a person who can't cope with the loss of a loved one is so weakened that he falls into a demon's trap, just as Skull Kid was so weakened by the loss of the Giants that he fell into Majora's trap.

Dan, no offense, but you're kind of jumping from subject to subject here. I don't see what SotC (which was a game that clearly revolved around the Wanderer's loss) has to do with this theory.

It appears that only the Ikanians possibly did that, and they all died out long ago anyway. I also doubt that Ikana has any ties to Majora's Mask, seeing as how King Igos Du Ikana makes no mention of it, only saying that "someone," opened the doors to the Stone Tower.

How can you say that? There's statues and carvings of Majora's Mask in Stone Tower. Obviously, if the Ikanians built them, they must know about, or be connected to The Mask in some way. Also note how nobody else directly blames Majora. They only say 'the imp with the mask'.

Perhaps he knew it was Majora and feared saying her name? Or perhaps he just didn't know who opened the door to Stone Tower.

wat dose phallus mean?
no wait,wat is a phallus?

Originally Posted by Average Gamer

That's a pretty bad argument Dan. With that reasoning, any crazy theorist could claim that their theory was correct, even if it basically made not one lick of sense.

Yup. But in this case, I think that's' what happened. For instance, originally I didn't really think anything of the Majora blocks in the desert (I sometimes use the term "Majora" to refer "Majora's Mask" when I don't feel like typing the full name out) since Majora's image was being used in this game the same way the crescent moon and star was in OoT. I didn't look for any explanation as to why the dungeon could be flipped upside-down, I just accepted it as a very cool gameplay mechanic. That's how most people reacted I guess, I just went back later and noticed a possible explanation for this stuff.

No offense Dan, but if this isn't debated and looked into, then there's a very good chance that you are off the mark. Theorists try to see if stuff like this is actually plausible and well-supported.

I understand. However, this theory is about two years old now, it's been debated plenty, some theorists accept the evidence as adequate, others dismiss it. I understand the arguments against it, and honestly I'm tired of discussing certain details. I wrote the article partly to present a stronger case for the Babel stuff--the original thread was full of holes--so that I could let it stand as it is and let people take it or leave it. I didn't write the article hoping for two more years of debating "Gargoyle licking Triforce+phallus and burning hand pointing at sky=blasphemy and rejection of the Goddesses."

Dan, when the Four Giants left the people, they basically made a comment along the lines of "if a flood or something like it is going to kill you all, call us". In other words, something pretty serious. Now, Skull Kid basically went berserk and started wronging everyone for a rather poor reason. Seeing as how the people resorted to the Four Giants, I'd say that Skull Kid was up to some horrific deeds. When the Four Giants are summoned, they don't kindly dismiss Skull Kid; they threaten to tear him apart. If the Four Giants, kind and benevolent as they are, are willing to kill Skull Kid, I truly doubt that his deeds were excusable.

I agree that his deeds were probably as horrible as you say. But the solution Termina settled on didn't resolve the issue that caused the problems, it causes even worse pain for Skull Kid. The result is that he comes back ages later and this time tries to destroy the world. If the Goddesses had gotten their way (if my interpretation is correct) then the conflict would have been resolved in a more ideal way and Termina wouldn't have had to go through such a trial later on.

Furthermore, there's a chance that the people ultimately did forgive Skull Kid; in MM, we not only see him in Termina when he meets the fairies, but numerous characters refer to interacting with him (instead of sicking the Giants on him). In addition to this, he is the one wronging them, albeit wearing Majora's Mask (cursing Kafei for no reason, threatening to break the astronomer's equipment and steal his Moon's Tear, killing the Deku Butler's Son, etc.). With this in mind, there's a chance that the Terminians forgave Skull Kid anyway, so the destruction of Termina would be completely unwarranted.

They may not be aware that Skull Kid is the ancient imp. But you might be right that Termina's people developed a better attitude as time passed, whereas in the article I presented them as being in a continual state of decline. The problem was that in ancient times the people had resorted to building Stone Tower as a testament to their anger, and that led to the escape of Majora. And Majora is a demon that likes to dig up wounds that haven't been fully healed and dump salt on them.

Dan, no offense, but you're kind of jumping from subject to subject here. I don't see what SotC (which was a game that clearly revolved around the Wanderer's loss) has to do with this theory.

Yeah, that last part isn't part of any argument directed at anyone, it's just some random notes about similar stories for people who are interested. I'm not doing this to strengthen any argument, just to discuss stuff I find interesting. A lot of stories try to express similar themes as MM's story and it can be neat comparing them.

Both SotC and MM (and Pooh's Grand Adventure) open by showing that the hero has suffered the loss of someone who was beloved and invaluable to them. The evil represented by Dormin and Majora is a major peril that people in such a situation could succumb to. Dormin behaves in a similar way as Majora, taking advantage of Wanderer's pain in order to mislead him. Wanderer's adventure puts him in a continual state of decline, but Link and Pooh are guided in a healthier direction through their adventures. They are able to develop their own inner strengths after losing the one who had been a continuous pillar of support.

The Venom goo-thing in Spiderman 3 (even though I didn't like the movie) is another Majora-like villain. Eventually it breaks free of its host and turns into a monster in the same way Majora's Mask throws away Skull Kid and takes on various forms on its own. In the movie, the venom stuff represents the spirit of revenge and Spiderman defeats it by recreating the sound of church bells, which represents forgiveness overcoming vengefulness, which is the message of that (awkward) movie.

what i'm left wondering though is that is there some sort of a link(no pun intended) between this theory of yours and why Majora gives Link the Oni-Link mask? is it some sort of redemption it seeks for its sins? I mean in the MM manga it explains the connection between Majora and a man who looks like Oni-Link, but this isn't technically considered canon, so I'm left wondering if there is some other sort of connection.

WoW that was a good shot and here i thought i knew alot about zelda but WoW, that was awsome to read and skull did has seen link before cause at the end of it he comes up to link and smells him and says that he smells like the fairy boy from the forest so when skull kid left Terminia he went to Hyrule and then after OoT he must if come back to Terminia for reasons i dont know why.

Originally Posted by Wise_Keaton

How can you say that? There's statues and carvings of Majora's Mask in Stone Tower.

Save for the statue in the lobby (which still looks odd), all of the symbols or statues depicting the mask appear to have the same purpose as the Gerudo symbol in OOT; gameplay mechanics. In addition to this, there are symbols that appear to relate to Twinmold throughout the tower.

Originally Posted by Wise_Keaton

Obviously, if the Ikanians built them, they must know about, or be connected to The Mask in some way. Also note how nobody else directly blames Majora. They only say 'the imp with the mask'.

Yet King Ikana mentions absolutely nothing about the mask. Quite frankly, the only trouble that Ikana seems to have faced is the war with the Garo. In addition to this, nobody else probably knows the importance of that mask; they could just think it's an odd-looking mask.

Originally Posted by Wise_Keaton

Perhaps he knew it was Majora and feared saying her name? Or perhaps he just didn't know who opened the door to Stone Tower.

I doubt that he feared Majora's Mask, especially since he probably never heard of it. Since he also doesn't say that he suspects anyone, he probably has no tie to Majora's Mask.

Originally Posted by Hylian Dan

Yup. But in this case, I think that's' what happened.

Those crazy theorists think their theories are what happened, but that doesn't mean they're right.

Originally Posted by Hylian Dan

For instance, originally I didn't really think anything of the Majora blocks in the desert (I sometimes use the term "Majora" to refer "Majora's Mask" when I don't feel like typing the full name out) since Majora's image was being used in this game the same way the crescent moon and star was in OoT.

Yet we have no proof that the Majora's Mask symbol was meant to be anything other than a gameplay-bound symbol. That symbol is pretty much everywhere, so I don't see why it would have a deeper meaning in one place and be dismissible everywhere else.

Originally Posted by Hylian Dan

I wrote the article partly to present a stronger case for the Babel stuff--the original thread was full of holes--so that I could let it stand as it is and let people take it or leave it.

But the problem is that you are presenting it as though it actually were fact, which in turn makes many new members believe this is fact and think nothing more of it.

Originally Posted by Hylian Dan

I agree that his deeds were probably as horrible as you say. But the solution Termina settled on didn't resolve the issue that caused the problems, it causes even worse pain for Skull Kid. The result is that he comes back ages later and this time tries to destroy the world. If the Goddesses had gotten their way (if my interpretation is correct) then the conflict would have been resolved in a more ideal way and Termina wouldn't have had to go through such a trial later on.

Dan, you're placing the blame on the victims here. The Terminians did nothing to offend Skull Kid, so how could they have resolved things in a more ideal way? He'd basically become unreasonable and was ruining their lives, and calling the Four Giants was likely a last resort, if the Giants' parting message was any indication. Seeing as how even the Four Giants viewed their death threat as the only possible means of dealing with Skull Kid, I think that the situation was resolved in the best way possible, or at least in a way that didn't involve killing the Skull Kid.

As Tatl said in MM (albeit in a different context), Skull Kid was not the same as a lonely child. He was trying to destroy everything around him, and that could simply not be allowed.

Originally Posted by Hylian Dan

They may not be aware that Skull Kid is the ancient imp.

Considering that he'd probably match-up with any ancient depictions of him, combined with the fact that his behavior was similar, the people probably caught on.

Originally Posted by Hylian Dan

The problem was that in ancient times the people had resorted to building Stone Tower as a testament to their anger, and that led to the escape of Majora. And Majora is a demon that likes to dig up wounds that haven't been fully healed and dump salt on them.

Majora's Mask is not a demon, Dan. It's a hexing mask that became sentient and was basically a living embodiment of dark magic. It doesn't seem to have any divine purpose for destroying Termina, and if the guilty were already punished (Ikana) and the other people didn't deserve punishment, then the actions of Majora's Mask aren't justified.

Originally Posted by Hylian Dan

The evil represented by Dormin and Majora is a major peril that people in such a situation could succumb to. Dormin behaves in a similar way as Majora, taking advantage of Wanderer's pain in order to mislead him. Wanderer's adventure puts him in a continual state of decline, but Link and Pooh are guided in a healthier direction through their adventures. They are able to develop their own inner strengths after losing the one who had been a continuous pillar of support.

Dan, the problem with this comparison and your other one based on Spider-Man 3 is that they just connect to characters already in the story of MM, meaning that they aren't really tying into your theory. Also, your Spider-Man 3 comparison goes against your theory if anything. If Majora's Mask is meant to represent a vengefulness that needs to be resisted, then Skull Kid is the one at fault, seeing as how he's vengeful at his friends.

Originally Posted by Wise_Keaton

Did she? Tatl and Tael seem to think that the skull kid was a decent sort before it picked up majora's mask. Skull Kid was only into pranks and jokes until majora twisted him up.

As Average Gamer has just stated(Thanks for covering that point for me by the way AG), it's hard to think of him as a decent or truly innocent person. He did enough evil to cause the people of Termina to summon the Giants to stop him. Completely justified considering he was committing deeds with magnitudes akin to natural disasters.
Majora just brought out the worst of him, the part he never showed because he was afraid of the Giants killing him. He lost his sanity later on due to the mask, but it is undeniable that he himself wished harm on Termina out of revenge.

I see how she may have picked up some of his features, but perhaps he picked up some of hers?

Personally I think the mask removed his conscience, but I don't think it mattered to Majora what world it destroyed, it probably would have tried to destroy Hyrule given the chance. The ill-will towards Termina however was all Skull Kid.

As for the dark magic... explain that. There's a very blurry line between 'good' magic and 'bad' magic. It depends on the purpose for which it's used. I'm sure the tribe that used the mask didn't find the magic bad, but instead, they found it necessary.

No matter what it was used for, the ancients sealed it away because they saw the mask for what it was and what it may have done. The masks power and other objects linked to it are always described as evil and dark, if it were given sentience why would it do anything remotely good, or be associated with anything good?

Majora does seem to be sadistic, but prefers psychological torture over physical pain.

The races were being kept alive for the finale simply for the irony of it all.

Are they? How do you know?

Because there’s nothing to suggest that they had ever come into contact with each other. I may as well claim that the mask once knew the Windfish.

Originally Posted by Hylian Dan

Yeah, that's what I kind of assumed before. But there is evidence it's existed for a while--all the artificial monuments and pyramids that fill the area.

If the desert is a construct then the monuments are constructs as well. They can look as old as the creator wants.
And that’s still not sufficient reasoning to believe it’s hell.

Maybe. People have told me that the rule of Occam's Razor would state that these are simple easter eggs/scenic objects. I'd debate that, cause the appearance of the Triforce, there of all places, is very weird, and the game deliberately draws attention to it. The camera zooms in on the Triforce as you're entering the inverted tower, there's no way to miss it.

Some may find it weird, sure. There’s still no reason to believe it means anything.

Same deal with the emblem on the broken statue. The complete emblem is brightly plastered above the inverted statue as a reference.

That statue is vaguely reminiscent of Majora’s Mask but little more than that.

I think it's a simpler explanation that the designers were prodding players to put two and two together than to say this is all random meaningless crap the desingers threw in for *****s and giggles in a game that displays huge attention to details and is presented as a mystery.

Simpler? It doesn’t seem so, were it as simple as you claim theorists would have sprung something like this up soon after the games release.
Considering how needlessly complicated this is I am certain none of it is true.

Originally Posted by Magic-Tech

No matter what it was used for, the ancients sealed it away because they saw the mask for what it was and what it may have done. The masks power and other objects linked to it are always described as evil and dark, if it were given sentience why would it do anything remotely good, or be associated with anything good?

Ok, I can agree with you on this.

Because there’s nothing to suggest that they had ever come into contact with each other. I may as well claim that the mask once knew the Windfish.

I will accept this too.

The races were being kept alive for the finale simply for the irony of it all.

But this I don't like. Why would Majora (very powerful, and probably selfish being) go out of her way to try and keep each and every member of each race alive if she prefered physical torture over Psychological? She would at least kill a few off for fun if she did. But the only people that die, do so by fault of their own. Darmani tries to ease the suffering of his people by brining an end to the winter. But he fails. (Quite miserably actually. That part made me so sad. He didn't even get to Ghot... Nevermind Ghot; he didn't even get to the temple!!! Poor Darmani! What a sad way for a hero to go. He deserved at least a more valiant death than getting knocked off the cliff by the wind.) And Mikau died trying to get Lulu's eggs back, to ease her worry. All evidence suggests that Majora prefers psychological torture. Therefore, her bringing the moon down, at least with the hope of killing everyone, was Majora acting out of character. And even if she did take all her personality from Skull Kid, nearly everything he does is psychologically painful to others. not physical.

Originally Posted by Average Gamer

Save for the statue in the lobby (which still looks odd), all of the symbols or statues depicting the mask appear to have the same purpose as the Gerudo symbol in OOT; gameplay mechanics. In addition to this, there are symbols that appear to relate to Twinmold throughout the tower.

Ugh! gameplay mechanics!? Oh nononono... you've hit my soft spot with this one. I prefer the 'everything has a purpose' idea... Gameplay mechanics! Say it's not sooooo!

Ooh... as much as I hate the idea (and I am not crazy about this idea at all, let me tell you) I have to acknowledge that you may... possibly... *gulp* have a valid point. *heavy sigh* But I still don't like it, and I'm going to try my hardest not to accept it.

Originally Posted by Wise_Keaton

But this I don't like. Why would Majora (very powerful, and probably selfish being) go out of her way to try and keep each and every member of each race alive if she prefered physical torture over Psychological?

Last I checked poisonings, blizzards, famine and revival of ancient warlords are physically painful, for all we know people could have died before Link reached Termina.

And even if she did take all her personality from Skull Kid, nearly everything he does is psychologically painful to others. not physical.

I believe eventually he was the one who eventually acted out of character due to the mask's influence, causing a mix of physical and psychological suffering to the citizens of Termina.

Originally Posted by Magic-Tech

Last I checked poisonings, blizzards, famine and revival of ancient warlords are physically painful, for all we know people could have died before Link reached Termina.

Check again. If she prefered physical torture, she would be striking people with lightning or something. Insted, she made the Gorons just cold enough that they would be affected by it, but not so much that they would die. (Not sure gorons can freeze to death anyways. Look at the Goron elder) And she made the ocean just cloudy enough that the Zoras had a hard time finding food, but they still found some. They are hungry, but not starving to death. And the Deku people don't seem to be running around in a panic over their water. It made the swamp dificult to move around in, and im sure some of them are thirsty, but they aren't getting sick. Plus she looms the moon overhead for three days. Why wait so long. If she prefered physical torture, why not crash the moon sooner? Why wait? Because she wanted to watch her victims squirm first? Also, if there were massive amounts of deaths prior to Link's arrival, would Link be informed? Wouldn't there be something to indicate a great loss of people?

Originally Posted by Wise_Keaton

They are hungry, but not starving to death.

If I'm not mistaken, the Gorons actually were starving to death, and some were actually freezing.

Originally Posted by Wise_Keaton

And the Deku people don't seem to be running around in a panic over their water. It made the swamp dificult to move around in, and im sure some of them are thirsty, but they aren't getting sick.

I have to partially agree with this one. Sure, poisoning the water would create problems for the Deku, but it's not their major concern, and they seem to be doing better than the Gorons.

Originally Posted by Wise_Keaton

Also, if there were massive amounts of deaths prior to Link's arrival, would Link be informed? Wouldn't there be something to indicate a great loss of people?

This is true. The only people that appear to die in the end are the Deku Butler's Son, Darmani, and Mikau.

OMG... maybe if it loaded fast enough.

I think I've read it before but I've forgotten.

G2g anyways, I'll give it a read tomorow if I get time.

Originally Posted by Wise_Keaton

Check again. If she prefered physical torture, she would be striking people with lightning or something.

That would be quick killing, not torture. Ever seen Hostel? Now THERE'S physical torture. Lightning is bliss compared to it.

Insted, she made the Gorons just cold enough that they would be affected by it, but not so much that they would die. (Not sure gorons can freeze to death anyways. Look at the Goron elder)

As AG has stated, the Gorons were unable to reach thier food supply. Again. And so were in danger of dying out. Again. And of course Gorons are a hardy bunch, but they would surely have died due to the freezing cold eventually.

And she made the ocean just cloudy enough that the Zoras had a hard time finding food, but they still found some. They are hungry, but not starving to death.

The water temperature was higher than usual which was killing the fish, not making them more difficult to find. Not to mention the murk and temperature change were together placing infant Zoras at high risk. The curse on the ocean would become fatal to it's inhabitants eventually.

Originally Posted by Great Bay Fisherman

We fishermen--and even the
fish--are in a real predicament!
If the seas don't return to normal
soon...
The Zoras...and even I...will be
all dried up!

And the Deku people don't seem to be running around in a panic over their water. It made the swamp dificult to move around in, and im sure some of them are thirsty, but they aren't getting sick.

The way the Deku are behaving is unreliable as a way of determining thier future, we're looking at an angry mob about to burn the witch afterall.
The Deku's way of life was in fact in great risk, if you actually spoke with the one Deku with a level head you would hear this.

Originally Posted by Deku Butler

What are we to do?

Our swamps have become
poisoned...This may be the end of
the Deku Kingdom!

Oh, great lords! Save us!

Please note that the Butler actually falls to his knees and seems to cry to the heavens to be saved. No panic indeed.

Plus she looms the moon overhead for three days. Why wait so long. If she prefered physical torture, why not crash the moon sooner? Why wait?Because she wanted to watch her victims squirm first?

You have it backwards. If the moon actually fell people would die in an instant, there would be no time to feel pain. If anything it would be a painless death, nothing like physical torture at all.

Also, if there were massive amounts of deaths prior to Link's arrival, would Link be informed? Wouldn't there be something to indicate a great loss of people?

My point wasn't that people did die, only that they could have and would have.
Mental anguish doesn't lead to physical suffering or death. Unless self mutilation or something is involved, but there's no sign of that.
It seems like an odd tactic for Majora to be honest, it seems it cursed the regions with problems which definately would have killed in the long term but decides to end all cases of physical and mental suffering very abruptly.

Originally Posted by Magic-Tech

That would be quick killing, not torture. Ever seen Hostel? Now THERE'S physical torture. Lightning is bliss compared to it.

I simply meant that she wouldn't be more direct about the killing. Lightning was the only thing I could think of at the moment. I am aware that it was a bad example.

As AG has stated, the Gorons were unable to reach their food supply. Again. And so were in danger of dying out. Again. And of course Gorons are a hardy bunch, but they would surely have died due to the freezing cold eventually.

Maybe they would have died out because of lack of food, but I disagree with the cold bit. Goron Elder has been frozen alive multiple times, and still hasn't bit the big one. The cold is probably uncomfortable, but is most likely not fatal. It's the food that is the problem. I can at least meet you half way on this one.

The water temperature was higher than usual which was killing the fish, not making them more difficult to find. Not to mention the murk and temperature change were together placing infant Zoras at high risk. The curse on the ocean would become fatal to it's inhabitants eventually.

The food supply dwindled, not died out completely. There were still fish about. You see them all over the place while swimming. And the eggs were unhealthy, but they still hatched. All of them lived. They just needed a bit of help. I believed the Zoras would have pulled through. The curse on the ocean would have been physically and mentally trying, and many would have died, I can at least take it this far, but I believe that it wouldn't be enough to kill the Zoras completely. Dramatically reduce their numbers, but not kill them all.

Originally Posted by great bay fisherman

We fishermen--and even the
fish--are in a real predicament!
If the seas don't return to normal
soon...
The Zoras...and even I...will be
all dried up!

Perhaps he's just flustered about not having as big a catch as usual. He’s not all knowing, and he doesn’t know for sure that the Zoras are going to die out. His business may flounder, and the Zoras may dwindle, like I said, but not die out. Go swim around. I remember fish.

The way the Deku are behaving is unreliable as a way of determining thier future, we're looking at an angry mob about to burn the witch afterall.
The Deku's way of life was in fact in great risk, if you actually spoke with the one Deku with a level head you would hear this.

Please note that the Butler actually falls to his knees and seems to cry to the heavens to be saved. No panic indeed.

I have a perfectly level head, dear. What I don't have is a photographic memory. I can't retail every tiny detail. I am doing my level best. But indeed, it isn't a panic. One crying person does not equal a panic. But perhaps your right about this one. I will agree with you in that the Deku scrubs are in serous danger of dieing out.

You have it backwards. If the moon actually fell people would die in an instant, there would be no time to feel pain. If anything it would be a painless death, nothing like physical torture at all.

You’re the one that has it backwards. Having the feeling of imminent death loom over you for three days is not physical torture, it's psychological.

The point I'm trying to make with this is that most everything Majora does suggests (at east it seems this way to me) that she prefers psychological torture over physical and acted out of character by bringing down the moon. I stand firm on this belief.