The Message of Majora's Mask

Wow, that was an extremely interesting article; thank you for that. Which issue was that in?

Anyway, I agree. The game does seem to have many underlying messages, most of which seem to be advocated by the Happy Mask Salesman and then supported by everyone else within the game, whether they realize it or not. The game seems to have been specifically designed to create a really dark, somber feeling that puts you on the verge of depression right before saying "no, wait, it's gonna be okay. Just have faith." Truly a story that even to this day seems to have no equal, at least not one that I've played.

I'm playing through the game again now, and I'm about to enter Ikana. So I suppose that if anything jumps out at me, you can expect to see me back here.

Things like this is why I love MM so much. It's so detailed and metaphorical. You could sit and talk about all these little things for hours and hours. The upside down triforce, the tower, the song of healing, the death of characters like mikau and the deku butler's son, the masked children on the moon and what their quotes mean, etc. - they just put so much thought into this game.

I really wish they'd make another Zelda like this one. As you said, OoT hinted at some of these themes and meanings, but MM was without equal. The atmosphere of the game, for one, was superb. Just the way it was done in general was phenominal. I really, really wish they would make another Zelda with as much thought put into it as MM. If the trend of TP and PH continues, though... ain't gonna happen.

I kinda half-want someone from the MM team to elaborate/confirm/deny some of what you said, but I kinda half-don't, too, for fear that your theory could be proven false. It really is a good one.

Originally Posted by sage_of_fire

Well if solid evidence is needed for every zelda theory, then the vast majority of them are pointless.

That’s such a beautiful truth I fear I may weep.
Anyway, most theories are untrue but they still have proof of a more solid nature. This one lacks any objective facts.

Originally Posted by Hylian Dan

Of course this is all interpretation.

Number and magnitude of speculation should never outweigh number and magnitude of evidence. That’s a rule for a theorist to live by.

If the creators didn't want to leave solid proof of this, then there won't be any. After all, they could potentially get in trouble for the phallus thing if it had been as obvious as the Muslim references in OoT.

Then why bother risking it? They could easily have toned down the hints to make the final conclusion suitable for all audiences but still the same.

Then there are the mysteries surrounding the backstory of the game. The Stone Tower is one of these mysteries, but given how dark, complex, and perhaps inappropriate it is, the game doesn't go out of its way to draw attention to it.

Wishful thinking.

Various back stories for characters.

This and these are separate maters entirely, for each of these mysteries we can look at them objectively and the answer will be spelt out in whopping giant pink letters so no doubt remains. But the angry Goddess theory apparently has clues so vague and frivolous only one person could pick up on them. That is why I can’t take it seriously.

Why is there a giant pointing hand at the top of the tower? Why is there part of an emblem painted at the top of the statue of the face?

I see no great mystery regarding either of these. It’s like trying to find the meaning behind a vase.

Why would Nintendo slip in the Triforce here when it doesn't appear anywhere else in Termina?

Because, god forbid, it’s an easter egg?

Why would they expect their audience of teenagers to see a gargoyle licking a known holy relic, displayed next to a pair of buttcheeks, and think "Hey, that's a sign of respect"?

I suppose it’s almost as unlikely as looking at a being in a foetal position and thinking “It must be in the middle of sexual assault”.

You're free to form your own theory regarding this, but to me this interpretation seems like a dead end.

On the contrary, as nothing definite has been provided, by turning the interpretation on its head I could form a theory on how the tower was built for the purpose of being closer to the Goddesses.

Even though I can't actually prove my interpretation, the connections I made provided answers to most of the questions I already had regarding Stone Tower.

And I’m happy that you’re content with it, but as a theorist this isn’t good enough.

Not only that, this interpretation even led me to the answer as to why the moon is falling, which is the central conflict on the story's surface.

I thought the answer behind that was obvious- Majora is a monster.

This revelation is so dark and significant that it seems appropriate that Nintendo alluded to it very cryptically, as opposed to explaining it through hidden exposition as they did with some other mysteries.

Generally if a secret is included more than one person will pick up on it.

If you're looking for scientific proof of this, there isn't any, but the game focuses on the task of doing detective world to arrive at an understanding of the strange world around you, and I find the Babel theory to be a satisfying and plausible explanation.

Unfortunately that’s only your opinion on the game. Now if the theory is made up of your own opinions and only works due to your opinion of the game it makes it rather unlikely, no?

Anyway, could I discuss the major problem I have with the theory here?
It’s the hell issue, certainly Majora’s emblem is found scattered about the place. But that only proves he has a link to it, and we knew that anyway considering one of his mask creatures is dwelling there! The more plausible explanation is that the desert is a pocket dimension created by Majora to house Twinmold.
Majora is perfectly capable of forming pocket dimensions, with the lunar dungeons as evidence. What’s more Twinmold has a link with the desert considering the sandstorm only flares up when they emerge to do battle then immediately becomes calm once they die.
There’s not even any evidence that the portal existed before recently when the Skullkid entered the tower to imprison the giant.
You have plucked your explanation out of the blue, if you’re going to make a huge conclusion like this then damn good evidence is a must. Otherwise, and I say this with full conviction, this is the result of a fanciful whim and is pure fan fiction.

P.S. Since you brought up the translation article did any of you catch a few sneaky little mistranslations they left in?
Who here is bothered by Romani speaking in third person all the time? Well it's considered 'cute' for young japanese girls to refer to themselves in third person.
And who here would call a tornado a 'Dragon cloud'? Asian dragons are associated with the ability to turn into water spouts when flying above water you see.

That's deep, I never thought of majora's mask that way, but it all makes sense, i love to dig deep into stories and learn about their backgrounds and histories ^_^

I absolutely loved this theory. All through out the game, I picked up on this ominous feeling, which just wouldn't quit tugging on the hairs on the back of my neck. I noticed piece after piece of evidence that was pointed out in Hylian Dan’s theory. The triforce of the bottom of the statues, the hand, all of the talk about faith. The goron trial at the end where you had to let go of the controller was when it started to make some sense to me. I even said out loud to myself when I figured it out 'There's got to be some deep meaning hidden in that.' Turns out, I was right. This theory put all of the clues that I noticed in place for me. But I have decided that I'd be no good as a theorist. (at least, I couldn't write my own, but talking about other theories is fun) I notice the details but fail to connect them. One way or another, this theory was brilliantly done, in my opinion. But one must take things like this with a grain of salt. Magic-Tech does make several good points. I agree with him on the matter of twinmold lair somewhat. It is a bit of a stretch saying that it is Termina's Hell. But we also must account for all of the death and doom that the Zelda games like to associate with the desert. It's where Gannon came from, Ganon describes it in Wind Waker (though I can't remember his exact words) as a terrible place that only brings suffering. In Twilight Princess, it is where the mirror is kept, to insure that no one can get to it, or bother it. They want the Twili to remain locked up, so the put the door in a place where no one lives, or wants to go. But it is all in how you interpret it. True, it’s not canon, but it certainly ranks high in my mind. I think your theory is wonderfully done, Hylian Dan!

Magic-Tech, I have a question for you.

I thought the answer behind that was obvious- Majora is a monster.

Every monster has a motive, however. Am I wrong? The moon must be falling for a reason, but majora's being a monster isn't a satisfying reason. No body is just going to up and destroy an entire world just for kicks. Majora has an ulterior motive, I'm sure. Perhaps it is that she was commanded to do so by the goddesses, as Hylian Dan said?

*heavy sigh* I wish someone could confirm/deny all this for us. The teams behind games like this have the best job in the world. They get to be the ultimate creator, if only for a little while, and only on a small scale. But it wouldn't surprise me if we were told this entire thing was just over analyzing. Then again, it wouldn't surprise me at all to hear them say 'congrats, you figured us out completely.' My very good friend and I are creating a world for a freestyle form of Dungeons and Dragons that we play, and we have created beliefs and religious stories for 3 different peoples so far. If two 16 year old girls can come up with deep stories with hidden meanings, then I'm sure a team of genius game programmers can create something like this with ease. If Hylian Dan can come up with it, maybe someone else already did?

Originally Posted by Magic-Tech

That’s such a beautiful truth I fear I may weep.
Anyway, most theories are untrue but they still have proof of a more solid nature. This one lacks any objective facts.

I disagree, I think it has facts a plenty. You can't deny that the triforce is on the bottom of the gargoyles, it's why it's there that we're trying to figure out. The same goes for many other objects in this theory.

Originally Posted by sage_of_fire

I disagree, I think it has facts a plenty. You can't deny that the triforce is on the bottom of the gargoyles, it's why it's there that we're trying to figure out. The same goes for many other objects in this theory.

Yeah, it may not be there for this reason, but it is there.

Originally Posted by sage_of_fire

I disagree, I think it has facts a plenty. You can't deny that the triforce is on the bottom of the gargoyles, it's why it's there that we're trying to figure out. The same goes for many other objects in this theory.

No one's denying that it's there. What IS being denied is Hylian Dan's reasoning for its being there.

Regarding Majora's motive... I'd say that it started with Skull Kid wanting revenge for being left behind by the Four Giants. As for why Majora continued to carry on with the destruction... Majora's often represented as a little kid... a sadistic, crazy kid. Perhaps it just wanted to have some fun: its idea of sadistic fun being the destruction of all. Majora likes watching suffering. Sounds like all the motive it needs.

Originally Posted by Ando

Regarding Majora's motive... I'd say that it started with Skull Kid wanting revenge for being left behind by the Four Giants. As for why Majora continued to carry on with the destruction... Majora's often represented as a little kid... a sadistic, crazy kid. Perhaps it just wanted to have some fun: its idea of sadistic fun being the destruction of all. Majora likes watching suffering. Sounds like all the motive it needs.

I'm not sure I can live with something as simple as insanity. I'm not sure how Majora is represented as a kid though. The child on the moon Wears Majora's mask... but I don't see Majora herself as a kid. She seems to favor manipulating the innocent minded (the skull kid is very childlike, and the children on the moon asking those deep questions) but she seems far too intelligent to be a child. I see the skull kid wanting revenge. But remember, before Majora started to poison the skull kid's mind, he was only interested in harmless pranks. Then Majora started to confuse right from wrong in his head, and his pranks turned into serous matters... even murder. I can see that Majora is willing to cause pain, so probably doesn't mind causing it to others so much, perhaps she's sadistic and enjoys watching other's suffer... but I don't see why she's would be willing to destroy the world just for the fun of it. I like better that she was commanded by the goddesses to destroy the world as punishment for the Terminians' sins. Majora thought out her moves very well. I'm sure she's smart enough to know that if she destroys the world, then there will be no one left to torture. This is why I'm having trouble excepting it

Originally Posted by Wise_Keaton

I'm not sure I can live with something as simple as insanity. I'm not sure how Majora is represented as a kid though. The child on the moon Wears Majora's mask... but I don't see Majora herself as a kid. She seems to favor manipulating the innocent minded (the skull kid is very childlike, and the children on the moon asking those deep questions) but she seems far too intelligent to be a child. I see the skull kid wanting revenge. But remember, before Majora started to poison the skull kid's mind, he was only interested in harmless pranks. Then Majora started to confuse right from wrong in his head, and his pranks turned into serous matters... even murder. I can see that Majora is willing to cause pain, so probably doesn't mind causing it to others so much, perhaps she's sadistic and enjoys watching other's suffer... but I don't see why she's would be willing to destroy the world just for the fun of it. I like better that she was commanded by the goddesses to destroy the world as punishment for the Terminians' sins. Majora thought out her moves very well. I'm sure she's smart enough to know that if she destroys the world, then there will be no one left to torture. This is why I'm having trouble excepting it

Deep^

cool
http://www.zeldauniverse.net/forums/...ou-rather.html

Originally Posted by Wise_Keaton

I'm not sure I can live with something as simple as insanity. I'm not sure how Majora is represented as a kid though. The child on the moon Wears Majora's mask... but I don't see Majora herself as a kid. She seems to favor manipulating the innocent minded (the skull kid is very childlike, and the children on the moon asking those deep questions) but she seems far too intelligent to be a child. I see the skull kid wanting revenge. But remember, before Majora started to poison the skull kid's mind, he was only interested in harmless pranks. Then Majora started to confuse right from wrong in his head, and his pranks turned into serous matters... even murder. I can see that Majora is willing to cause pain, so probably doesn't mind causing it to others so much, perhaps she's sadistic and enjoys watching other's suffer... but I don't see why she's would be willing to destroy the world just for the fun of it. I like better that she was commanded by the goddesses to destroy the world as punishment for the Terminians' sins. Majora thought out her moves very well. I'm sure she's smart enough to know that if she destroys the world, then there will be no one left to torture. This is why I'm having trouble excepting it

Well, for defense, I will say that it's not exactly odd to see child geniuses that are sadistic, ESPECIALLY in any sort of fantasy setting (game, movie, ect.) So it's certainly possible. However, that being said, I agree with you. But, I agree with you on nothing more than a "feeling" that she is not a child or represented as such.

Originally Posted by Amaterasu

cool
http://www.zeldauniverse.net/forums/...ou-rather.html

The second one because I could walk after that.

yeah I agree

Im not fully understanding what youre trying to imply here. so are you saying theres a dark-ish theme? a sexually perverted theme?
or you trying to explain what some of the stuff represents?

Originally Posted by Klaww

Im not fully understanding what youre trying to imply here. so are you saying theres a dark-ish theme? a sexually perverted theme?
or you trying to explain what some of the stuff represents?

I wouldn't say the theme is sexually perverted. Everything in the theory seems to fit in in a tasteful manner. All are perfectly relevant to the idea of Termina having masculine pride in the creatures the see as gods, and by doing so, offending the goddesses and causing the Terminian's doom. The Stone tower pillars don’t even need to be phalluses to be relevant. The number four is supposed to represent stability. And we can all see how the number four is a recurring theme in the game. Perhaps they saw it fitting to represent their gods by building four strong pillars. The stone tower in ancient, right? The pillars were obviously built strong, because they have withstood the test of time, and the extreme altitude, and weather to remained standing. The Terminians wanted to honor the strength and stability of their gods. So even if it wasn’t intended to be a sexual reference, it still fits in with the story. Basically we are trying to figure out why Termina is doomed, and why the people are suffering. That's my view on all this.

No, not really perverted. Like Wise_keaton said, just showing over pride in a masculine pride of their gods.

Originally Posted by Wise_Keaton

Every monster has a motive, however. Am I wrong? The moon must be falling for a reason, but majora's being a monster isn't a satisfying reason. No body is just going to up and destroy an entire world just for kicks. Majora has an ulterior motive, I'm sure.

Did Majora have a motive? Who can say, it was only a Mask granted sentinence due to the dark magic invested in it so we'll never know if it had desires, dreams, purpose or sanity.
I mean the apparant point of dark magic is to hurt and destroy, it may have just been the nature of dark magic with a mind, on steroids with no inhibitions.
Or it simply picked the bit of Skullkids unbalanced mind that wanted revenge on the Giants, it did seem to pick up alot of SKs views as we can see through the lunar field.

Perhaps it is that she was commanded to do so by the goddesses, as Hylian Dan said?

It's possible I'll grant it, but considering Majora and the Goddesses, and even the Giants, are unrelated in backstory I think it can be effectively dismissed.

Originally Posted by Ando

No one's denying that it's there. What IS being denied is Hylian Dan's reasoning for its being there.

Thanks man! Couldn't have said it better myself.

Originally Posted by Magic-Tech

Did Majora have a motive? Who can say, it was only a Mask granted sentinence due to the dark magic invested in it so we'll never know if it had desires, dreams, purpose or sanity.
I mean the apparant point of dark magic is to hurt and destroy, it may have just been the nature of dark magic with a mind, on steroids with no inhibitions.
Or it simply picked the bit of Skullkids unbalanced mind that wanted revenge on the Giants, it did seem to pick up alot of SKs views as we can see through the lunar field.

Did she? Tatl and Tael seem to think that the skull kid was a decent sort before it picked up majora's mask. Skull Kid was only into pranks and jokes until majora twisted him up. I see how she may have picked up some of his features, but perhaps he picked up some of hers? As for the dark magic... explain that. There's a very blurry line between 'good' magic and 'bad' magic. It depends on the purpose for which it's used. I'm sure the tribe that used the mask didn't find the magic bad, but instead, they found it necessary. How about 'absolute power corrupts absolutely'? But assuming for a second that Majora does in fact have her own persanality and think with her own mind, she is sort of acting out of character by trying to destroy the world. (My best friend and I have a very lengthy and in-depth phone conversation about this, so I think i have my facts straight. I wish I could have recorded it for you all to listen to.) Returning to the question of why Majora tried to make the moon fall, we came up with this. Majora does seem to be sadistic, but prefers psychological torture over physical pain. In nearly every instance of the Skull Kid causing pain to the people, it was psychological, what with all of the separation issues (as stated earlier by Hylian Dan) and the only exceptions that I could find were the killing of the Deku Scrub, the Zora, and the Goron that turn into link's masks. Darmani and Mikau were killed indirectly, trying to put a stop to their peoples suffering. As for the Deku Scrub, we don't know how he died. But even if Majora herself had killed him with her own hands, it was still for a purpose: To tease link by turning him into a Deku Scrub. Skull Kid/Majora very well could have killed Link then and there, but Majora wanted to toy with him for a while. But as I said, destroying the moon would be out of character. My friend and I came up with 2 possibilities.
1: She wasn't acting out of character and only wanted to threaten the people with the moon. But she overestimated her power and couldn't stop its fall.
2: She was commanded to act out of character by the goddesses.

It's possible I'll grant it, but considering Majora and the Goddesses, and even the Giants, are unrelated in backstory I think it can be effectively dismissed.

Are they? How do you know?

------------
Remember to take all this with a grain of salt. If there's a problem with any of this, please don't be shy in telling me. (I'm actually having fun talking about this.)