Stone Tower of Babel: Why Termina was Doomed

Originally Posted by Surio

The garos were a tribe.
This may be irrelevant but Garo is the name of a real Indian tribe... I think I read that somewhere, on google or something.

I looked it up on Wiki. You are right. The Garo tribe lives in India and Bangladesh. Wiki says that the real Garos are bloodthirsty headhunters, much like the Garos in MM. A lot of the stuff that comes from Zelda seems to be influenced by real-life stuff (i.e. Epona being the name of the Celtic goddess of horses).

I believe that the Stone Tower was made as a gateway to the Terminian Hell. The masked one flat (or sharp, I get them confused) referred to as "The Devil" is probably Majora. If not, that's not my point. The masked one wanted to restore the Ikana kingdom by opening up the Stone Tower again to release the evil from his realm. What else would the devil's realm be but Hell? The Stone Tower must be a gateway to hell, therefore, Twinmold's lair would be it.

By the way, great theory, HD. At first, I didn't quite buy your imaginative theory, but then you had just enough evidence to back it up. On top of that, the way you came up with it; each element of the theory falls into place. It made me realize what eerie motifs this game has. Thank you, for putting so much hard work into this theory. I believe I'm the only one who has thanked you; you deserve it. Two thumbs up.

EDIT: I opened up my MM file, so I could have a look at those "phallic" statues. They are, indeed, phallic- but what gives you the idea that the creators intended it? I have seen them before but that would not have ever come to my mind. I see the shape, but I do not exactly think of a phallus when I see it.

Originally Posted by Hyperbadox

I looked it up on Wiki. You are right. The Garo tribe lives in India and Bangladesh. Wiki says that the real Garos are bloodthirsty headhunters, much like the Garos in MM. A lot of the stuff that comes from Zelda seems to be influenced by real-life stuff (i.e. Epona being the name of the Celtic goddess of horses).

That's really interesting information. Definitely makes Termina's Garos even creepier.

I believe that the Stone Tower was made as a gateway to the Terminian Hell. The masked one flat (or sharp, I get them confused) referred to as "The Devil" is probably Majora. If not, that's not my point. The masked one wanted to restore the Ikana kingdom by opening up the Stone Tower again to release the evil from his realm. What else would the devil's realm be but Hell? The Stone Tower must be a gateway to hell, therefore, Twinmold's lair would be it.

That part of the Ikana story has me confused. I can't tell what time period it took place in, whether it was early in Ikana's history or just recently when Skull Kid found the mask. If it was Skull Kid, that would mean he spent a good amount of time in Termina wreaking havoc with Majora's Mask, since Pamela and her dad came to the region to investigate the curse. There might have been a sort of Narnia effect in place, so that time flowed quickly in Termina while Link was travelling through the portal. That would also explain why Skull Kid could play a part in Termina's earliest mythology.
I think it's clear that the mask the figure wore was Majora's Mask, which Flat called the Devil. But was it Skull Kid wearing it or someone else? When the Stone Tower gates were opened, did the damned spirits pour out from Hell?

By the way, great theory, HD. At first, I didn't quite buy your imaginative theory, but then you had just enough evidence to back it up. On top of that, the way you came up with it; each element of the theory falls into place. It made me realize what eerie motifs this game has. Thank you, for putting so much hard work into this theory. I believe I'm the only one who has thanked you; you deserve it. Two thumbs up.

Thank you!
You might find this thread rather... amusing. (Btw, I now hate Occam's Razor.) Thanks everyone here for the great discussion; I might not have kept theorizing if it hadn't been for the interesting responses here.

Speaking of which, I'd like to know what some of you think of Gomess and the Eyegore, two notable Stone Tower denizens. Gomess's name seems connected to the word "goddess." Could the entity be another demon that escaped from Hell, or a sort of Dark Angel sent by the goddesses to kill the Garos? Wait!! Maybe Gomess is a vampire of sorts, and is responsible for the Garos becoming shells of their former selves. Are the Terminian bats called Bad Bats because of their association with that ancient horror?

Eyegore seems to be the same sort of alien as those that attacked Romani Ranch. This might be meaningless, but if the aliens abduct the cows, the cut scene shows their space ship heading into the east, towards the Stone Tower on the horizon. And the Eyegore lurks between the statue of Majora's Mask and the desert, and it guards the Giant's Mask. Any thoughts? Also, is the Eyegore a reference to some specific sci-fi monster with a similar name? I think I read something about that once, but I forget all the details, such as whether I really did read that or am making this up.

Finally, some more MM-related Twilight Princess SPOILERS:
The Song of Healing is back!! According to what I accidentally read at ZU's main page, at least - I didn't want to read the spoilers for more info about it. Anyways, I loved the Song of Healing and its role in MM, as well as how the theme of healing was central to the story. This info has me extremely excited for TP; I can't wait to see how the song will be used this time.

Most people have noticed that the eye of Midna's Mask slightly resembles Majora's Mask. I'm going to play close attention to that detail as I play the game. On a related note, thehylia.com revealed some jaw-dropping artwork from the TP manual, showing among other things a very sinister-looking twilight-ish female being, who resembles Midna. There's probably no connection to Majora, but still...I'm definitely going to be looking for any clues in TP that might tie into MM's story. I can't wait for this game.

Edit:

EDIT: I opened up my MM file, so I could have a look at those "phallic" statues. They are, indeed, phallic- but what gives you the idea that the creators intended it? I have seen them before but that would not have ever come to my mind. I see the shape, but I do not exactly think of a phallus when I see it.

I think I noticed their phallic-ness several times before, simply dismissing that thought. I was always baffled by how weird they were. But the phallic-ness really jumped out at me when I was playing MM this summer, which is how I came up with this theory. I wasn't sure if the creators had noticed it, but then I found a way to jump onto those pillars. (When the tower is inverted, jump onto the eyelid of the temple entrance. Do a rolling jump towards the pillar and use the Blast Mask in mid-air.) Walking on them felt so horribly disturbing that I can't imagine that the person spending so much time making them never noticed what they resembled. Different designs of them were even there in an earlier version of the game.



I don't have any doubts, really, that they're meant to be obscene. The pointing hand seems to be there specifically so that teenagers could notice that the architects were saying "F you."



On top of this, there are a bunch of obscene naked statues in the Stone Tower licking the Triforce, which is placed where their crotches would be. Their buttocks are clearly visible, and there's no doubt that they are buttocks.




Taking that into account, it seems very implausible that the creators slipped that obscene content in, but never noticed how obscene the nearby pillars were. Also, Twilight Princess seems to confirm that the gesture of sticking out the tongue is considered vulgar in the Zelda universe.

Originally Posted by Daphnes

Majora sounds like a girl, and has tits in humanoid stages.

Majora's Wrath also seems to have a female reproductive system, just like the first floor of the Spirit Temple.

I've got a question about Eyegore? Do you think that Beamos and other more scientifically advanced dangers of LoZ could have originated in Termina?

Originally Posted by Daphnes

I've got a question about Eyegore? Do you think that Beamos and other more scientifically advanced dangers of LoZ could have originated in Termina?

Wow, that's a great idea. The Beamos issue of course would be a retcon if that's true, but yeah, it's very similar to the Eyegore. I'm going to wait and see if Twilight Princess addresses this issue at all since Termina's postman seems to be in TP's Hyrule somehow.

Yeah I wonder about them.

Originally Posted by Hylian Dan

Wow, that's a great idea. The Beamos issue of course would be a retcon if that's true, but yeah, it's very similar to the Eyegore. I'm going to wait and see if Twilight Princess addresses this issue at all since Termina's postman seems to be in TP's Hyrule somehow.

Termina's postman? You mean the one that appears in a trailer?
I wouldn't think they're the same, TP is quite a while after MM after all. And the postman quit.

Brilliant theory, and great observancy with the symbolic gestures displayed in Stone Tower. That certaintly explains a lot in the storyline of Majora's Mask as well as adds a corner stone in the whole Zelda timeline. Brilliant observation, once again. I'm going to tell all my friends.

Originally Posted by Magic-Tech

Termina's postman? You mean the one that appears in a trailer?
I wouldn't think they're the same, TP is quite a while after MM after all. And the postman quit.

Who else thinks the wandering running man and the postman are the same people, so to speak?

Originally Posted by Daphnes

Who else thinks the wandering running man and the postman are the same people, so to speak?

I get what you're saying, and I agree the running man must be the Postmans parallel half, but I think this is beside the point because
I don't believe the TP postman and and MM postman are linked by anything but profession and appearance.
Also I don't believe that robotic enemies came from Termina, for example do you believe that magic-gifted Terminian enemies come from Hyrule?

Originally Posted by Magic-Tech

Also I don't believe that robotic enemies came from Termina, for example do you believe that magic-gifted Terminian enemies come from Hyrule?

No, it's just that I get the feeling that Stone Tower machines are older that Hylian. It's just a thought, and I don't have much to base it around.

Originally Posted by Hylian Dan

At the top of the Stone Tower, there is a statue of a hand that points to the sky. Every time I looked at it I wondered why it was there. When I was playing that part of the game last night, I looked at the architexture at the entrance to the temple and I noticed that the tower next to the hand looked very phallic... then I understood.

And now, I think I've solved a large part of the mystery of Majora's Mask.

The Stone Tower is the Terminian equivalent of the Tower of Babel. The story of the Tower of Babel tells of mankind's attempt to defy God by building a tower that would reach the heavens. Because this was an act of wickedness, God thwarted their plans by making every man speak a different language. Unable to communicate, the men could not continue building the tower.

How does this apply to the Stone Tower? Many people here have mentioned that the Triforce can be seen on the statues leading to Ikana and on the blocks Link crosses to reach the top of the Tower. Nintendo did not put the Triforce there accidentally, or as an Easter egg. The Triforce is placed on the end of the tongue of the statue, and the statue uses its tongue to cover its crotch. Clearly the architects of those obscene statues were aware of the Triforce's existence and were mocking the three goddesses.

The hand at the top of the Stone Tower is pointing at the goddesses, and the phallic tower next to it is saying "Screw you." The Stone Tower itself resembles a giant phallus, sticking out of the earth and pointing towards the heavens.

The ancient ones who built the Stone Tower were blaspheming the goddesses of the Triforce. Their plan seems to have been to open a portal in the sky that would lead them to heaven. But the goddesses would not allow this to happen, and they would not let this evil go unpunished. So they flipped the universe upside down.

The architects opened the portal, but because everything had been reversed it led them to hell. And in hell there was a being that had been sealed away during a previous age, a being that had attempted to destroy the world. The architects found the mask of the demon and brought it with them. And so the goddesses punished the builders of the Stone Tower by releasing Majora into their world. That world was then called Termina because it was doomed to end. The men who had found the mask honored it by placing symbols of it in all the temples, as well as in the realm where they had found it (Twinmold's lair?).

Ages later, the Skull Kid stole the mask and the demon finally had a weak host it could use as a puppet. As Majora gained strength, it summoned the moon to come crashing into Termina, as it was the fate of that world to be destroyed. But then a child came into that doomed world, a child who was a member of the race that had been blessed by the goddesses, a child who had carried a piece of the sacred Triforce. That child was Link, and in three days he conquered the devil and saved the world. It should be noted that Link had entered a portal in the sky as he did this; was that the realm the ancient ones had tried to reach? As the moon was cast back into the heavens, the goddesses left behind a rainbow as a promise that they would not again seek to destroy Termina, as God had left a rainbow in the sky as a covenant with Noah after flooding the world.

Interestingly enough, though the goddesses spared Termina, they did send a flood to wipe out Hyrule.

Another thing I want to mention: In the Stone Tower Temple Link found the Giant's Mask, which was a sort of tranformation mask. Each transformation mask contained a being's essence. Was there, at one point, a fifth Giant? Were there two Giants in the East, and was one of them sealed away? The Giant's Mask closely resembles the mask of the Garo Master. Perhaps one Giant was the patriarch of the Garos and the other the patriarch of the Ikanans, and the ancient conflict was the source of the tensions that led to the war that destroyed Ikana.

Some of the credit for these theories goes to this thread at IGN, although my theories are fairly different. I found that thread with a google search; so far I've only read the first post.

very good thinking.

at first i figured the St had the ability to switch its orientation simply because the forest temple in OOT did. MM has many parallels to OOT, same looking people, areas, that sort of thing (plus some new things obviously). but after reading that, prehaps i should have thought a bit more.

How do the Bosses fit in the theroy?

Originally Posted by JJAB91

How do the Bosses fit in the theroy?

The bosses were evil spirits that possessed the Giants, so they couldn't protect Termina anymore. When you beat the boss, the spirit comes into the mask. At the end, Majora reclaims the masks, and they attack during the second part of the first phase.

Hmm, I think that everyone in this thread has wonderful ideas. espesially you HD. But you make it sound as if all the evil of termina lays in Ikana and Clocktower. surely, there must be similiar things in the other directions?

Also notice that ikana is a area where you don´t notice the effects of beating the boss. In snowhead, it turns to spring, in swamp the water clears. and in ocean you can notice some changes.

Ikana is also a area that doesn´t have a race of their own. they just have dead people. And why doesn´t the kokiri shell look more like Link? that where one of the things that annoyed me.


Excuse me for being annoying just when this thread started to end, Förlåt!

Originally Posted by PurachinaIto

Hmm, I think that everyone in this thread has wonderful ideas. espesially you HD. But you make it sound as if all the evil of termina lays in Ikana and Clocktower. surely, there must be similiar things in the other directions?

Also notice that ikana is a area where you don´t notice the effects of beating the boss. In snowhead, it turns to spring, in swamp the water clears. and in ocean you can notice some changes.

I didn't notice any changes at the bay.

And why doesn´t the kokiri shell look more like Link? that where one of the things that annoyed me.

Gao aren't meant to look like, or have any connection to the Kokiri. I don't know why you think they would.

Originally Posted by Daphnes

I didn't notice any changes at the bay.


Gao aren't meant to look like, or have any connection to the Kokiri. I don't know why you think they would.

There is not manychanges at the bay, but everyone becomes a bit happier, and the fisherman opens his platform jumping game.

What is a gao? I thought it was a kokiri?

Also notice that ikana is a area where you don´t notice the effects of beating the boss. In snowhead, it turns to spring, in swamp the water clears. and in ocean you can notice some changes.

There are changes, the music in Ikana changes to the music thats in termina field. But no visible changes apart from the dissapearance of the garo that Tatl notice.

Okej! I´ve given MM some thinking now, and this is my continuation of HD theory. It´s probaly nothing important, but I´m posting it anyway.

In OoT, ganon comes from the west. But Majora sems to come from the east of Termina. However, i think I read somewhere that the gods come from the east- the sunrise.
And Majora is a godess, but Ganon is not. Which leaves us with the theory that satan comes from the west, right? Because the sun sets in the west. And satan is not a god, so this far it´s possible.

And if it´s true, then the godesess should be strongset in the east, or the portal to heaven is there. And the east of Termina is the Stone tower, which supports HD´s theory.

But instead of heaven, there was the gate of hell. But the stone tower seems to be a temple where they worshiped Majora. And then it´s not hell to Majora. Instead it seems like a heaven to her.

And the Garos must have noticed the gateway, and began to build their tower. Unaware of it being a heaven of an evil godess.

now I´ll ask some qustions.
Does every god come from the east?
Does every god live in heaven, and not in hell?
Do all the godessess live in the same heaven?

I think that Majora was sealed inside it´s own heaven. Which seems like hell to us.

In OoT, there are clearly other dimensions, and even gaps between them.

But if what I´ve said this far is correct, there must be other entries to other heavens. because I find it hard to believe that Din, Nayru and Farore lives in the same heaven as Majora.

Perhaps the gateway to their heaven lies in Hyrule? A country that they seems quite fond of.

But then again, which other heavens could you enter from other countries, like Labrynna? Are there a gateway in every country?

I think that other countries could host smaller gods, like FD and Majora. But some probaly don´t have gods, it simply would be to many then.

Perhaps in Labrynna you can reach the godess of time´s heaven? (she probaly has a entrance in most countries tough) I haven´t played OoA or OoS, but they talk a lot about time, Don´t they?

While we´re on it, the godess of time is not a weak godess, she reaches over several countries. But Majora is a lesser godess, since she seems unable to leave Termina.

Thank for the time you took reading this. And I hope that it added at least something useful to the original theory.

Originally Posted by PurachinaIto

Okej! I´ve given MM some thinking now, and this is my continuation of HD theory. It´s probaly nothing important, but I´m posting it anyway.

In OoT, ganon comes from the west. But Majora sems to come from the east of Termina. However, i think I read somewhere that the gods come from the east- the sunrise.
And Majora is a godess, but Ganon is not. Which leaves us with the theory that satan comes from the west, right? Because the sun sets in the west. And satan is not a god, so this far it´s possible.

You'd have to give evidence that God comes from the east. I've never heard of this anywhere, except mythology.

Apollo rides the Sun chariot, Zeus in Roman mythology represents the Sun (or vice versa). Hades is connected with Pluto (which has recently lost its status as an actual planet).

On the other hand, our favorite Godesses are myths based off of Christanity. As for multiple gateways, I'd say it's possible but not nessecary. Not everyone worships gods and godesses. Especially if you have mortal incarnations of the Godesses in Labrynna and Holodrum. These prophets act as messengers, so the people don't have to worry about the Godeses themselves.

Originally Posted by Daphnes

You'd have to give evidence that God comes from the east. I've never heard of this anywhere, except mythology.

Apollo rides the Sun chariot, Zeus in Roman mythology represents the Sun (or vice versa). Hades is connected with Pluto (which has recently lost its status as an actual planet).

On the other hand, our favorite Godesses are myths based off of Christanity. As for multiple gateways, I'd say it's possible but not nessecary. Not everyone worships gods and godesses. Especially if you have mortal incarnations of the Godesses in Labrynna and Holodrum. These prophets act as messengers, so the people don't have to worry about the Godeses themselves.

I can´t remeber where I read it.... that´s very annoying, but I just can´t remember.
(Except from that Aslan comes from the east in Narnia, and Narnia is also based on christanity. But I don´t think it was solely from that, or at least, I hope so.)