Stone Tower of Babel: Why Termina was Doomed

Originally Posted by Daphnes

So you think Majora's Wrath may be the truest face of Majora? I would think the default would be the true face, but maybe the ultimate transformation that signifies the full force of her power is her true face.

Well I, personnaly, Always believed that Majora's Wrath was his true form, like the real Majora, and I guess I wasn't too far off, y'know?

Here's a decent screenshot of the four pillars.

Originally Posted by Daphnes

So you think Majora's Wrath may be the truest face of Majora? I would think the default would be the true face, but maybe the ultimate transformation that signifies the full force of her power is her true face.

I was mostly pointing out interesting similarities rather than trying to make a point, but I do think the Majora's Wrath is the true face of Majora. Majora's Mask is a mask, after all. Consider that this question is one of the major themes of the story:

"Your true face... What kind of... face is it? I wonder... The face under the mask... Is that... your true face?"

Majora's Mask hides the nature of its demon, to an extent. The mask was appealing enough to lure Skull Kid to it, but if he could have seen the true horror of Majora's Wrath I think he'd want to be as far away from the thing as possible.

As for the issue of Majora's gender, I think the demon is either androgynous or female, but definitely not 100% male. Aside from the issue of Majora's Wrath's feminine screams, my reasons are kind of weird. For one thing, the markings on Majora's Wrath's body seem... female oriented, and since the Terminians worshipped the male Giants and used male-oriented imagery to offend the female goddesses, it's slightly fitting that they goddesses would send a female demon to wipe those people out.

About Majora being a female demon, I was looking at this,



Its kinda small, but the part I circled looked sort of like ovaries to me. On top of that, Majora's incantation was dancing around...

So, if Majora is the dark God of Termina, where does the Fierce diety come in? Some sort of opposite number?

Wow. I know it's been said, but this theory just gives me shivers. And it all fits well, which is scarier still. Another thing that continues to fit with the Tower's hellish architecture is the exterior. The entrance is a tormented looking face with torches for eyes. Yet another image of the dark, torturous nature of the tower itself.

Do you think Hyrule was flooded as punishment for Link saving Termina? Do you think the Godesses kept him from returning because they planned for Termina's downfall?

I don't know if anyone asked that, but I don't want to reread the whole thing.

I really don't know. I'm still wondering if the Goddesses were being malicious (taking the triforce as punishment for Link going to save the perverted realm while leaving Hyrule alone). This just goes deeper and deeper. I keep expecting a lightning bolt to hit something.

Originally Posted by Daphnes

Do you think Hyrule was flooded as punishment for Link saving Termina? Do you think the Godesses kept him from returning because they planned for Termina's downfall?

I don't know if anyone asked that, but I don't want to reread the whole thing.

Wouldn't it make sense to flood Termina, and Link along with it for trying to save them? Or maybe they drowned Hyrule as a "Don't mess with our plans or the consquences will be dire muahaha!!!" type of thing... Just brainstorming here.

Originally Posted by Surio

Wouldn't it make sense to flood Termina, and Link along with it for trying to save them? Or maybe they drowned Hyrule as a "Don't mess with our plans or the consquences will be dire muahaha!!!" type of thing... Just brainstorming here.

I always thought that the loss of the Triforce was Link's big punishment. As if they said "If you think it's a place that can be saved, go ahead and save it! But we're taking this back!"

Originally Posted by Prince Dodongo

I really don't know. I'm still wondering if the Goddesses were being malicious (taking the triforce as punishment for Link going to save the perverted realm while leaving Hyrule alone). This just goes deeper and deeper. I keep expecting a lightning bolt to hit something.

No, I'm sure the goddesses were on Link's side. It would have been impossible for Link to save Termina without the aid of the Goddess of Time, who is most likely Nayru.
A rainbow appears when the moon vanishes, and it wasn't raining or anything. I interpret that as a sign from the goddesses that they had forgiven Termina.

As for why Link lost the Triforce, the goddesses probably didn't want that artifact to enter a realm under the dominion of Majora. Or in a realm where people built statues of naked gargoyles sitting on the Triforce and licking it. The Terminians had rejected the Triforce, so it shouldn't be allowed to enter their world. I can understand that.

Originally Posted by Fire Bird

About Majora being a female demon, I was looking at this,



Its kinda small, but the part I circled looked sort of like ovaries to me.

I'm glad I'm not the only one who thinks that. That part always bugged me because I had no idea whether it was supposed to look like that or whether I was being slightly perverted. Given how bizarre the game is, I now think that design was intentional.

Majora's Wrath also kind of has breasts.

Originally Posted by Hylian Dan

No, I'm sure the goddesses were on Link's side. It would have been impossible for Link to save Termina without the aid of the Goddess of Time, who is most likely Nayru.
A rainbow appears when the moon vanishes, and it wasn't raining or anything. I interpret that as a sign from the goddesses that they had forgiven Termina.

As for why Link lost the Triforce, the goddesses probably didn't want that artifact to enter a realm under the dominion of Majora. Or in a realm where people built statues of naked gargoyles sitting on the Triforce and licking it. The Terminians had rejected the Triforce, so it shouldn't be allowed to enter their world. I can understand that.

Okay. Then it's a good thing I decided that thy aren't malicious when I wrote my pre-flood fanfic, called Cataclysm[/shamelessplug]

Man, this thread needs to be remembered, as it has singlehandedly instilled in me the fear and willies that Majora's Mask did.

Originally Posted by Hylian Dan

No, I'm sure the goddesses were on Link's side. It would have been impossible for Link to save Termina without the aid of the Goddess of Time, who is most likely Nayru.
A rainbow appears when the moon vanishes, and it wasn't raining or anything. I interpret that as a sign from the goddesses that they had forgiven Termina.

Oh yeah. I fogot about that part. So mabe I'm wrong, unless Din and Farore conspired without Nayru. I guess they just flooded Hyrule to get rid of the Gerudos that spawned the King of Evil. On the other hand, Tetra's mother might have been related to the Gerudos.

Yeah, I agree with the theory about Nayru being the Godess of Time.

Badabading! I got it! The idea of them finding the Mask in Hell works for one reason. It was found after the anchient tribe sealed it away in shadows. They sent the mask to Hell, and the people who followed the Stone Tower's Portal found it. That solves the mystery of how it was recovered.

Originally Posted by Prince Dodongo

Badabading! I got it! The idea of them finding the Mask in Hell works for one reason. It was found after the anchient tribe sealed it away in shadows. They sent the mask to Hell, and the people who followed the Stone Tower's Portal found it. That solves the mystery of how it was recovered.

Congradulations!

The ancient tribe used dak magic, and that formed into a demon. They threw it into Hell to keep it hidden. The Giants embarked for the heavens after creating the four domains around Termina field, and the people wanted to follow them. Since they abandoned the Godesses that created the Giants, they made the Tower blasphemous towards them.

The Godesses turned the tower upside down so it would go to Hell instead of Heaven, thus unleashing Majora to destroy them all. Did I get that all right?

Hylian Dan this is the best MM theory I have ever seen! I was actually going to start getting away from theorising on Hylian History and get into other stuff like Termina history but you my friend may have uncovered something VERY important. ALthough some of your points I don't agree with because it is a little bit of speculation but who the hell cares! The theory is awsome and little tweaks can be fixed if necessary. if I come up with anything on my mind after reading it again I will post it.

Actually one small note. The part about the Giants Mask's purpous. I never gave it much thought but perhaps the anchients of Ikana wanted to use the power to fight off the deity Giants of Termina. Its a thought.

Note: Shouldn't this be in the timeline/theory thread???

Originally Posted by Prince Dodongo

Badabading! I got it! The idea of them finding the Mask in Hell works for one reason. It was found after the anchient tribe sealed it away in shadows. They sent the mask to Hell, and the people who followed the Stone Tower's Portal found it. That solves the mystery of how it was recovered.

I agree. The desert universe seems to be the same sort of universe as the field of the tribe, although the the field is peaceful while the desert is chaotic.

Originally Posted by Daphnes

The ancient tribe used dak magic, and that formed into a demon. They threw it into Hell to keep it hidden. The Giants embarked for the heavens after creating the four domains around Termina field, and the people wanted to follow them. Since they abandoned the Godesses that created the Giants, they made the Tower blasphemous towards them.

I'm still not sure what the exact motive was for the people to build the Tower. Certainly, part of it was hatred of the goddesses. As I pointed out before, in the first room of the Stone Tower Temple, a portal is visible in the sky. I used to wonder if it was some sort of glitch, but after going through all these small pieces of evidence I think it is there intentionally. So maybe the builders were trying to reach it, for whatever reason. Your theory that they wanted to follow the Giants is really interesting. However, if they believed the Giants had gone to a realm in the sky, I doubt they would have built the phallices and the hand pointing upwards. Those structures must indicate that they believed the goddesses, not the Giants, were above.

The Godesses turned the tower upside down so it would go to Hell instead of Heaven, thus unleashing Majora to destroy them all.

Right. The Light Arrows were the instruments that were used to flip the universe, and those arrows are supposed to be sacred. The goddesses tricked the people by giving them those holy arrows, which are meant to smite the wicked. And by using the divine arrows, the wicked people brought about their own destruction, almost.

The other instrument that was used to flip the universe was the spider emblem outside the temple.

Originally Posted by Garo Master

If you shoot that which releases the sacred golden light into the blood-stained, red emblem outside the temple... it shall rearrange things, in which the earth is born in the heavens and the moon is born on the earth.

He described the emblem as blood-stained, not blood-red. Whose blood is that, and who is responsible for that bloodshed?

Originally Posted by ?

Ikana Kingdom was founded on
this land, stained with a history
of darkness, drenched in blood...

This brings up another topic I wanted to discuss: the Garo Master was waiting in the room that led to Twinmold's lair, and he told Link the secret of the Stone Tower. He must have known about the desert as well. And he wasn't just a random enemy - he was the leader of a tribe of people, the Garos. He wore a mask that was similar in shape to the Giant's Mask. What is the connection between the Garos, the Stone Tower, the Giant's Mask, and the desert realm, the only place where the mask's power can be unleased?

Hmm, as I'm typing this, I'm starting to develop a new theory.

Originally Posted by Igos du Ikana

To return true light to this land, you must seal the doors of Stone Tower where the winds of darkness blow through.
But Stone Tower is an impenetrable stronghold. Hundreds of soldiers from my kingdom would not even be able to topple it.

Originally Posted by Sharp

I, the only one who knows the way into the temple, shall direct you to the King.

Originally Posted by Flat

Are you the one who freed my soul?
I served the Ikana Royal family. I am the composer called Flat.
The songs connected to the Royal Family that remain here were all composed by my brother and I.

Originally Posted by Igos du Ikana

I grant to you a soldier who has no heart. One who will not falter in the darkness.
This soldier who has no heart is your twin image. A shell of yourself that you will shed when your song commands it.

Originally Posted by Pamela's Father?

They are merely shells that are
empty on the inside. They're the
shells of spies from an enemy
nation sent to investigate Ikana.
They have been unable to forget
their living days. Even now their
spirits--emptiness cloaked in
darkness--continue to spy.

Originally Posted by Mysterious Ghost

And if you are not wearing the
mask that houses the wandering
spirits, which the black-hearted
one near the ranch has...
I will not let you pass.

Sharp and Flat clearly composed the Elegy of Emptiness. Was that song used to create the shells of the Garos? Are the spirits of the Garos somehow contained within the Garo's Mask, via the Song of Healing, perhaps?

Another thing: inside the Clock Tower, on the wall behind the Salesman, there is a decoration of a blue person. The exact same decoration can be seen inside the Ancient Castle of Ikana. Did the Ikanans build the Clock Tower?

Originally Posted by LOZ Historian

Actually one small note. The part about the Giants Mask's purpous. I never gave it much thought but perhaps the anchients of Ikana wanted to use the power to fight off the deity Giants of Termina. Its a thought.

Good timing, I was about to make my post when I saw this. The Giant's Mask was probably a weapon made by the Garo for them to use upon reaching the portal. The Garos probably built the Stone Tower, and we know the builders of the Tower loathed the goddesses and loved the Giants (think about the symbolism of the four giant phallices pointing at the goddesses). The Giant's Mask, maybe, was created as an homage to the Giants, whom the Terminians considered to be superior to the goddesses. So, the Garos planned to invade the heavens and use the power of a Giant to destroy the goddesses!! Is that the answer to all this?!!

Originally Posted by Hylian Dan

I
Good timing, I was about to make my post when I saw this. The Giant's Mask was probably a weapon made by the Garo for them to use upon reaching the portal. The Garos probably built the Stone Tower, and we know the builders of the Tower loathed the goddesses and loved the Giants (think about the symbolism of the four giant phallices pointing at the goddesses). The Giant's Mask, maybe, was created as an homage to the Giants, whom the Terminians cosidered to be superior to the goddesses. So, the Garos planned to invade the heavens and use the power of a Giant to destroy the goddesses!! Is that the answer to all this?!!

Ah yes. A weapon to use against the goddesses. Very plausible like I thought before. Thankyou.

~ LOZ H ~

EDIT:

What is your grounds on the whole Fierce Deity history in your theory, for I have always seen him as a gaurdian sent from the Gods/Goddesses being that he bares the mark of a Triangle on his armor. To me that symbolizes some relatenence to the Triforce and maybe that trinagle represents the Triforce of Power and Din?

What if the FD mask's power is the Triforce of Courage incarnate? Remember, it was taken from this Link as he set out. Perhaps it was a gift from the goddesses as a thanks for healing all the people of Termina (hence the masks were the tests of worth). And in return for saving Termina and it's people, they gave you the ultimate weapon to combat their own revenge-thing.

Originally Posted by Igos du Ikana

On my kingdom...shine the light of justice...

Going back to the blood-stained emblem of the Stone Tower, I'm thinking that the Garos filled it with the blood of their slain enemies to taunt the goddesses by implying that they would be the next to go. However, when the divine light of justice, the Light Arrow, was shot into the bloody emblem, it caused justice to be done to the Garo tribe by flipping the universe and leading them to Hell.

Originally Posted by LOZ Historian

What is your grounds on the whole Fierce Deity history in your theory, for I have always seen him as a gaurdian sent from the Gods/Goddesses being that he bares the mark of a Triangle on his armor. To me that symbolizes some relatenence to the Triforce and maybe that trinagle represents the Triforce of Power and Din?

I really don't have any theory about the Fierce Deity. The mask annoys me because it caused all the wimpy players who relied on it to think Majora was a pathetic boss. I'm about to get the FD Mask in my current file, so I might come up with something after using it for a while. I think it's been well over a year since I've used that thing.

It's easy to dismiss the mask as a little treat Nintendo threw in to solve the "problem" of adult Link's absence, but there could be more to it. But if the triangle design is important then the moon emblem must be equally important. The fact that it's a crescent moon doesn't necessarily mean anything, because if the emblem showed a full moon it would just look like a circle. Is the moon associated with the goddesses, Majora, both, or something else?

The triangle probably means he's associated with the fourth part of the Tetraforce. (Don't worry, that was a joke.) He's probably associated with the goddesses, but the fact remains that the mask was held by the Majora child. I don't know, if I come up with something I'll post it here.

Originally Posted by Gossip Stone

The Fierce Deity Mask, a mask
that contains the merits of all
masks, seems to be...
somewhere in this world...

By the way, here's the Gossip Stone hint about the Giant's Mask, which most people would never read in the game:

Originally Posted by Gossip Stone

A mask that contains gigantic
power seems to be resting in the
temple of the accursed land...

While playing the game, I noted that the emblem of the weird man appeared on the clothes of the mysterious ghost who appears throughout Ikana. That emblem also appears in the Castle of Ikana and the Clock Tower, so I think the Clock Tower is associated with Eastern Termina.

I'm also wondering if there's some significance to the other major enemies within the Stone Tower. The Death Armos had an image of the spider emblem that would flip it upside-down, but I think that's just there for the sake of gameplay. The "U" emblem appeared on its shield, and I think that's one of the first appearances of that emblem, which would become very prominent in TWW and TP.
Gomess's name is similar to the word goddess, and the demon's face slightly resembles Majora's Mask. The Eyegore guarded both the Giant's Mask and the desert, and it seems to be related to the aliens who attacked Romani Ranch (and flew in the direction of Stone Tower upon stealing the cows). Any thoughts?

I don't think I read this before, but... Which event happened first? The construction of the Stone Tower or when Majora's Mask got sealed away...

I looked on wikipedia and found a couple of things...

The manga by Akira Himekawa, although not by official Nintendo authors, provides a side story that attempts to explain the origin of the Mask.

The Mask is revealed to be an ancient and dangerous artifact made from the body armour of a legendary beast, Majora. According to a myth devised "by the humans themselves," the beast's armour was supposed to grant wishes and hold of a great and terrible power. Nevertheless, all who approached Majora, warriors, men and women alike, even with good intentions, were devoured without remorse by the beast. After centuries of a woeful and solitary existence, a being disguised as a human musician (resembling the Fierce Deity) approached Majora, and offered it eternal rest, not by fighting, but by playing music. Majora happily danced to dying exhaustion after three days of agony. The musician removed the armour's body parts from Majora, and from them he carved Majora's Mask, attempting to bring an end to the solitude of the beast and the fear and ambition of the people.

Somehow, Majora's Mask ended up in the hands of early Terminian tribes, and became known as the Mask of the Devil. Majora's Mask gained its power from the evil desires that people had in their minds as they were devoured by the beast, or when they cast the hexes when the armor was made into the mask. As it passed from member to member in the tribe it accumulated its power until it was too much to control. The tribe died out, but the mask still rested in darkness, until the Happy Mask Salesman recovered it after a long search. In the end of this story, the Mask's wish-granting power is destroyed, but the reasons behind its apocalypse and the motivation behind the Salesman's quest for it are never revealed.

After playing with the children, they disappear, leaving Majora's Mask alone. Note that talking with the other kids is optional: the player can directly talk to Majora's Mask and still beat the game normally. When approached, Majora's Mask kid will ask Link if he wants to play with him. If Link says yes, the kid will stand up, and tell him that they'll play a game of tag, good guys againsts bad guys - Majora will be the good guy, and Link will play the bad guy. If the player gave all of his masks away to the other children, however, Majora will also give Link the Fierce Deity Mask, so Link can fully become the "bad guy".

After receiving them, every child asks Link something different about friendship, happiness, and the philosophy behind the use of masks:
* Odolwa / South Guardian Mask: "Can I ask... a question? Your friends... What kind of... people are they? I wonder... Do these people... think of you... as a friend?"
* Goht / North Guardian Mask: "Can I ask... a question? What makes you happy? I wonder... what makes you happy... does it make... others happy, too?"
* Gyorg / West Guardian Mask: "The right thing... what is it? I wonder, if you do the right thing, does it really make everyone happy?"
* Twinmold / East Guardian Mask: "Your true face... What kind of... face is it? I wonder... The face under the mask... Is that... your true face?"

All of that came from here. I think that it might have somethings to do with FD and the origins of the masks...