Stone Tower of Babel: Why Termina was Doomed

Originally Posted by auhin

Excellent theory, Hylian Dan. I love it. 100%. It makes perfect sense, and it gives MM a new Biblical feel. Very nice.
I've always thought that LoZ games were somewhat spiritual and now I'm confident they are! Being a Christian, it's quite nice to have games that pay homage to the stories you hold dear. Very nice theory, by far the most interesting and fun theory I've ever heard. Keep it up.

You hit the nail right on the head for me. Most Christians who see the biblical link in LoZ view it as a negative connotation. My mom saw the connection between the three goddesses and the Holy Trinity in OoT and immediately condemned the game.

On another note, I love the theory. If the game told us all of this stuff it wouldn't be nearly as exciting or creepy as figuring it out on your own, you know?

First post!

Originally Posted by Grevados

You hit the nail right on the head for me. Most Christians who see the biblical link in LoZ view it as a negative connotation. My mom saw the connection between the three goddesses and the Holy Trinity in OoT and immediately condemned the game.

On another note, I love the theory. If the game told us all of this stuff it wouldn't be nearly as exciting or creepy as figuring it out on your own, you know?

First post!

Wow. why would your mom condemn it? Not meaning to pry, and you certainly dont have to answer if you so chose, but are you Catholic?

This theory is a good one. it seems very well developed, and gives that much more depth to MM and, in turn, OoT.

Originally Posted by ZeldaStrife

Wow. why would your mom condemn it? Not meaning to pry, and you certainly dont have to answer if you so chose, but are you Catholic?

This theory is a good one. it seems very well developed, and gives that much more depth to MM and, in turn, OoT.

No, not Catholic, Protestant. And I meant she disapproved of the game, not that she condemned it to hell. That would be... wierd...

And that was a while ago anyways. She doesn't care nearly as much anymore.

Originally Posted by Grevados

No, not Catholic, Protestant. And I meant she disapproved of the game, not that she condemned it to hell. That would be... wierd...

And that was a while ago anyways. She doesn't care nearly as much anymore.

Ohhhhh. now it makes sense. anayway, my 'rents are kinda the same with video games. Now when it comes to anime, however.... thats a totally different arena on whihc i dont even venture with them.

wow, very true

Originally Posted by Hylian Dan

Four of them, actually. And it's possible to jump on them, but that's... really weird. There are buttocks, (on the statues) breasts and ovaries (on Majora's Wrath's body) in the game as well.

...Dude, do you realize that Majora is androgynous?

Originally Posted by Lules

Great theory. I got even a little scaried. But you know, as good as this theory is, to me, it's nothing more than theory. I bet Miyamoto didn't even think half of what you're saying there. Something phallic in The Legend of Zelda? I don't think so. But I do think that's strange that portal on the temple. But that theory... it's too dark for a Zelda game for every age.

But the thing is that they DIDN'T include it. If it was planned, then it has been hinted at best (therefore not affecting the game's rating). So it could have been planned as a backstory by whoever wrote the story (but I doubt it was Miyamoto the one who wrote it >_>)

Originally Posted by ESE150

But the thing is that they DIDN'T include it. If it was planned, then it has been hinted at best (therefore not affecting the game's rating). So it could have been planned as a backstory by whoever wrote the story (but I doubt it was Miyamoto the one who wrote it >_>)

i always wonder if things like this ARE intended by the creators, or if it is just us, the fans, who see things because we want to see them...

not meaning to be a Debbie-Downer, btw. Just thinking "aloud".

Okay, but however you look at it, like HD says, the game is about having faith to conquer your doubts and fears. and there is also enough evidence to support the fact that termina is faithless (the inverted triforce at the start tells me enough). so it's not hard to deduct that that was the reason 'Termina' was doomed. So if the creators of the game had that in mind while making the game, then they could've easily added more elements to back that up...

(I'm waiting for someone to make a movie on YouTube about the story behind Termina :p but i'm not a good editor )

NEW THEORY!

I suddenly realized something: majora's mask looks like Majora's true face, but UPSIDE DOWN. (see the statue of Majora's true face, inverted, http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y25...joraStatue.jpg). Do you see what this could mean? Just like the tower, upside down, is a prison for the mask, the mask, upside-down, is a prison for Majora's spirit. The master garo says that inverting the tower causes the moon to be "born on the earth". I don't think this is a coincidence--- here's the new theory! The Ikana created Majora's Mask in their hexing rituals and were forced to seal it away, building Stone Tower as its prison. Because the mask caused great destruction on earth, they sealed it away in the heavens--- not just in the heavens, but IN THE MOON. The portal above the tower leads there, and by bringing the moon's portal to the earth by inverting the tower, the doorway to the mask is opened so that it can return to earth. Majora's Mask, enraged at its imprisonment, sought to bring the moon ITSELF to the earth, bringing the two worlds together, its prison and its birthplace, to destroy them both.

The hand of the stone tower points to the prison of evil, above the world. The great faces of the stone tower represent the giants, the heroes of the Ikana, which is evident in that their greatest tool, the giant's mask, was created in their image. Its great strength used to build the tower, and in their devotion they crafted the giant's face into the tower. So that Majora's Mask could not be brought back down to the earth, the seal of the tower was created so that only sacred light could bring the portal (bring the MOON, as the master garo said), down to earth. That way, only one with a righteous heart, capable of having the light arrows, could do so, so that no evil force could use the mask again.

Another key--- the fierce deity mask! Majora itself believes this mask to be a "bad guy"--- and why so? Perhaps the fierce deity was the one strong enough to force Majora into its prison, sacrificing himself in the process. His own spirit was imprisoned in a mask with Majora.

Because this happened eons ago, according to the Happy Mask Salesman, it was always known that someday, the great evil would be unleashed, and in its rage it would lay waste to the world. Hence the dire name Termina.

Wow... great first post. Keep this coming, I'd like to see some evidence to back this up.

I especially liked your good grammar.

Thanks! The Tower of Babel theory is good but I think this one is a little more likely. It doesn't require any sort of phallic imagery or Biblical metaphors in the game, and I think the clues in the game point to the Stone Tower being used both as a fortress and to protect the portal to the sky, not as a monument to mock the goddesses.

Possible angles to explore:

1) Perhaps as was suggested, the Garo, instead of the Ikana, created Stone Tower. Igos du Ikana says to Link that even he is unable to conquer it, implying that it is outside his kingdom's boundaries. The artwork within the Ancient Castle of Ikana is also very differently than the artwork in Stone Tower. For example, there are spiral patterns and skulls along the walls of the throne room, neither of which appear in Stone Tower or its temple. If the Garo were the tribe who created and later imprisoned the mask, this would explain why it's the Master Garo who tells Link how to invert the temple. This doesn't affect the theory directly but more information could help add to it.

2) What is the significance of the tongue imagery? The great face of the Stone Tower Temple has a prevalent tongue that Link walks up to enter the temple. Likewise, the stone blocks mentioned by Hylian Dan display creatures with a very large tongue that goes down the front of the block and underneath it, where the tongue holds a triforce (it's not licking or covering its groin, despite what was said earlier. It's just holding a triforce. For a better angle, invert the tower and stand next to the scarecrow on the rightmost ledge). What does these creatures, their tongues, and the triforce on their tongues, symbolize? They could hold some sort of key to understanding Stone Tower better.

3) Termina is known to have counterparts to Hyrulean individuals. Could the Fierce Deity have been Link's own counterpart? When Link transforms into a Goron, or Zora, he gains abilities of those respective species: firey punches, petal flight, bubbles, etc. But in the Fierce Deity form, see what he gets: sword beams (remember NES zelda?), a quick spin attack (rotate and press B), a voice identical to his own 7 years later in life, and a face that matches his own as well. The mask is not just "awakening" his inner abilities; look at the mask when it's OFF his face, when he's holding it over his head after Majora gives it to him, for example: it has the same face on it. The face is IN the mask, and the fact that it's Link's face I believe is very significant. The Fierce Deity must have lived centuries ago, but there's no reason to think that the lifespans of parallel individuals have to match exactly.

Edit: I'm calling my idea the Prison Tower Theory, so that it can be referred to.

first post woot anyway im to darn lazy to check if its been said even though ive been reading the whole thread for like 3 days but i think the two extra sets of spikes not on the majoras mask statue but on the actual mask is a sign of power because i think that the spikes on the bosses masks are keying that they came from the power of majoras mask and i think that the two sets of spikes not seen on the statue are because majora made the four bosses using a portion of his power.

Originally Posted by Hylian Dan

The Triforce is placed on the end of the tongue of the statue, and the statue uses its tongue to cover its crotch. Clearly the architects of those obscene statues were aware of the Triforce's existence and were mocking the three goddesses.

"Clearly"? Not to me. This has taken the form of a 19-page fanfic debate. I believe that my Prison Tower theory presented above is simply much more logical. The tongue lies on the centerline of the body; if it's drawn long enough, of course it's going to go past the crotch area. This doesn't mean the being is "covering" its crotch, just that it has a long tongue. You're jumping to conclusions in an attempt to find evidence for your theory. Here is a picture I took myself, of another image from Majora's Mask:

http://i247.photobucket.com/albums/g...tonguedeku.jpg

Is this Deku then, being drawn to "mock the goddesses"? Of course not. Neither are the images from Stone Tower.

now that i tihnk about it im wrong because majoras didnt make those creatures for a while and since she has her spikes after shes made them my idea is out of the question unless she gained enough power from skull kid to gain them back

Wow, this is an amazing topic...it's what got me interested in this forum. Also, I love to theorise, especially about things such as this, so it wins on that point too.

I don't think I'll look at Stone Tower...nay, the entire game in the same way again.

Originally Posted by FinalRound

Wow, this is an amazing topic...it's what got me interested in this forum. Also, I love to theorise, especially about things such as this, so it wins on that point too.

I don't think I'll look at Stone Tower...nay, the entire game in the same way again.

second'd. when something like this is analyzed and looked at in this type of manner, it really makes the game that much more detailed and interesting. I love getting onto detail about things like this. Besides, these types of things are what inspires great fanfictions. I was inspired by the first trailer we had of TP, for example, and im still writing that fanfiction over two years later (up to 90 pages of fanfiction, and still going strong!)!

Originally Posted by ZeldaStrife

second'd. when something like this is analyzed and looked at in this type of manner, it really makes the game that much more detailed and interesting. I love getting onto detail about things like this. Besides, these types of things are what inspires great fanfictions. I was inspired by the first trailer we had of TP, for example, and im still writing that fanfiction over two years later (up to 90 pages of fanfiction, and still going strong!)!

wow, that's awesome, I can't write that much without it getting really dumb and corny, either that or I just end up getting disinterested or frustrated

Originally Posted by MajorasWrath1

"Clearly"? Not to me. This has taken the form of a 19-page fanfic debate. I believe that my Prison Tower theory presented above is simply much more logical. The tongue lies on the centerline of the body; if it's drawn long enough, of course it's going to go past the crotch area. This doesn't mean the being is "covering" its crotch, just that it has a long tongue. You're jumping to conclusions in an attempt to find evidence for your theory. Here is a picture I took myself, of another image from Majora's Mask:

http://i247.photobucket.com/albums/g...tonguedeku.jpg

Is this Deku then, being drawn to "mock the goddesses"? Of course not. Neither are the images from Stone Tower.

Agreed

Besides,I don't think Japanese people would put "GOD" related things in a videogame

You just double-posted! However, I'm not a mod. I don't care, really. I once quadruple-posted, but that's WAAAYY behind me.