Stone Tower of Babel: Why Termina was Doomed

Originally Posted by Crustacean

Another possiblity may be that the river flowing beneath the Clock Tower is part of an underground stream built by the Terminians. The water would be pumped from the ocean or nearby source of water, and run underneath the Clock Tower, powering the mill, which in turn powers the Clock Tower. One problem with the theory is where the river would have to end, as there would be no point to continue to pump the water. Possibly, the river could redirect to the Laundry Pool, running underneath South Clock Town, parallel to the Clock Tower.

Map of Termina with both rivers outlined

Map of Clock Town with possible path of river

North end of Laundry Pool, showing the tunnel.
*Note the fact that the tunnel turns east, and that the water is flowing out of it, not into it

South end of Laundry pool
*Note that the tunnel turns west, probably back to the ocean.

Though this may seem a little far-fetched, remember that the Terminians are far more technologically advanced than the Hylians, and are probably capable of engineering this (take the Great Bay Temple for example.)

I like your idea. I took a few more pictures to get a better idea of how the river flows.

First, this one shows as much of the river as is in the laundry area.
http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o...e/snap0053.jpg

Next, I turned the image upside down and put the map on there, so I could estimate the approximate course of the river, which I marked in blue on the map. I only marked as much as I was sure of.
http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o...undryriver.jpg

No river was visible in any other areas of clock town.

Ok, I have two different ideas. My first one is that instead of using Clocktown as a trade route, they used it to keep the Women and the Children safe and out of the war, or maybe just the children (Ikanan history doesn't really tell us what role women played in society, so I wasn't sure if they'd be taking cover with the children or not.) I don't really have much to back this up with, but the fact that clocktown and Ikana castle both have many markings. I'm suggesting that perhaps the markings in Clocktown is some sort of map or indecations made by young ikanan children that were worried for their fathers. This would expectually make sence with the outside markings that we've talked about before, the Rainbow/Octorok, The Snow, The Sun, and the Moon, and even alot of the markings inside clocktown. It was just a way for the children to remember their fathers at war.

It does resemble a fortress, or protected area, and I think you're on to something. However, it would be odd that the children (and/or women) would leave their protection to paint on the outer wall. I think the four cardinal-direction symbols on the outer wall must have been made during a time of peace. And if the Ikanans built Clock Town, the alleged "time of peace" must have been when they first built it, if this was before the war, or after, when the war was over, and Ikana was ruined.

First of all, Congratulations! A fantastic theory and I certainly believe it. I have been wanting to post here for ages but it has taken me so long to read all 19 pages so far. Anyway, I have a few things which are probably nothing really but they just occured to me so I thought I would post them anyway.

1) The inverted triforce at the start of the game. The bottom triangle, which I would think would be the triforce of power, is smaller than it should be. Could this be a reference to the fact that the people believed the Goddesses (represented by the triforce) had very little power in comparison with the giants?

2) I have just started replaying the game, and I have just been through Woodfall temple and I noticed some wall carvings (sorry I can't get pictures) which appear firstly in the entrance room and then in more rooms throughout. In the middle of these carving is a square face which seems similar to the faces on the stone tower blocks. Above and below this face are each two rectangles which look similar to the phallus pillars (two above the face, two below, pointing in) Could this be relevant? Also starting in the second room, above the locked door is a gargoyle carving but it doesn't seem related to everything else. Finally in the woodfall temple, above most of the doors there seems to be a faint image of what looks like a butterfly, but again seems to be the compass design, the four "wing" circles representing the four points.

3) This one is the most unlikely:

Originally posted by Kaepora Gaebora
Ho-ho-ho-ho-hoot!
This is a rare sight. You are a
fairy child, correct?

What business might you have in
this poisoned swamp?

If you dare not venture further,
I shall pass no judgment.
It is better that you hurry back
to town.

This swamp you are in has lost
its guardian deity. But it was
destined to fade anyway.

Hoo-hoot...And that destiny is not
solely limited to this swamp...

If you have the courage and
determination to proceed in the
face of destiny, then I shall teach
you something useful.

Before coming here, had you not
seen any of the stone statues
that bear close resemblance
to me?

I have placed those throughout
the land to aid the one with the
power to change the destiny of
this land...
Wherever he may appear.

If you have left proof of our
encounter on any of those stone
statues...

Then the song carved at my feet
will certainly be of some
assistance...

This shows that the owl knows a lot about what is going on in Termina. How does he know all this? Well the owl statues that are scattered around look as though they have been there for a long time, so perhaps the owl has also been in Termina long ago.

Originally by two gossip stones in the sacred forest meadow in OoT
They say that the owl named Kaepora Gaebora is the reincarnation of an
Ancient Sage.

They say that the strange owl, Kaepora Gaebora, may look big and heavy,
but its character is rather lighthearted.

If he is the reincarnation of an ancient sage, and as he knows so much, he must somehow be a servant of the Goddesses. And perhaps the comment about him being lighthearted... could he possibly have been the one who gave the light arrows to the garo?

Originally Posted by Guy Westcott

1) The inverted triforce at the start of the game. The bottom triangle, which I would think would be the triforce of power, is smaller than it should be. Could this be a reference to the fact that the people believed the Goddesses (represented by the triforce) had very little power in comparison with the giants?

I'm not sure. The people of Termina didn't make that light pattern on the ground.

It's also the piece closest to Link. Perhaps Link no longer has the Triforce of Courage?

Originally Posted by Guy Westcott

2) I have just started replaying the game, and I have just been through Woodfall temple and I noticed some wall carvings (sorry I can't get pictures) which appear firstly in the entrance room and then in more rooms throughout. In the middle of these carving is a square face which seems similar to the faces on the stone tower blocks. Above and below this face are each two rectangles which look similar to the phallus pillars (two above the face, two below, pointing in) Could this be relevant? Also starting in the second room, above the locked door is a gargoyle carving but it doesn't seem related to everything else. Finally in the woodfall temple, above most of the doors there seems to be a faint image of what looks like a butterfly, but again seems to be the compass design, the four "wing" circles representing the four points.

! This idea set off a train of thought in my head! Here are the pictures, the idea is below*.
Phallus Face 1
http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o...e/snap0065.jpg
Phallus Face 2
http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o...e/snap0066.jpg
Pillar
http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o...e/snap0067.jpg
Pillar Close-up
http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o...e/snap0072.jpg
Butterfly Door
http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o...e/snap0073.jpg
Gargoyle Engraving
http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o...e/snap0075.jpg

While looking at this next one, I noticed what could be one of two things in its mouth. It's a little creepy, so I put my 2 guesses in SPOILER tags.
Phallus Face 3
http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o...e/snap0078.jpg
Phallus Face 3 Close-up
http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o...snap0093-1.jpg
1: Maybe eyes looking out. (Creepy! )
2: Or perhaps the bottom two pieces of the triforce? If you squint your left eye?

*IDEA(if no one has already said it ): So, if the engraving is indeed of the Stone Tower floating stone face, and the four pillar-like objects are four phalluses, this links the Woodfall temple with Ikana. The conclusion I draw is that the Ikanans must have built the Woodfall temple. The Ikanans worshipped the four giants. Why wouldn't they build temples to them? This theory would be stronger if we can find evidence of Ikanan architecture or symbols in the other two temples.

However, wasn't the purpose of the Stone Tower to get to the vortex/portal in the sky, and invade heaven? This purpose isn't exactly the same as building a temple for a giant. Furthermore, if the building of the Stone Tower led to the fall of the Ikanan Empire, the Ikanans would have had to build the Stone Tower after they had completed the three other temples. What purpose would they have in building three temples far away, before building one near their castle?

Still working on this one.

Originally Posted by Guy Westcott

3) This one is the most unlikely:

This shows that the owl knows a lot about what is going on in Termina. How does he know all this? Well the owl statues that are scattered around look as though they have been there for a long time, so perhaps the owl has also been in Termina long ago.

I have pondered whether this owl is the same owl as in OoT (and others). If he is, he would, as you said, have to be really old.

Originally Posted by Guy Westcott

If he is the reincarnation of an ancient sage, and as he knows so much, he must somehow be a servant of the Goddesses. And perhaps the comment about him being lighthearted... could he possibly have been the one who gave the light arrows to the garo?

Ooh! That's an interesting idea. I had been wondering how the garo (who seem pretty clever) would accept light arrows from the goddesses, whose heaven they were planning to invade. They would surely realize that it was a trap. I think Kaepora Gaebora is a serious possibility to consider.

While looking at this next one, I noticed what could be one of two things in its mouth. It's a little creepy, so I put my 2 guesses in SPOILER tags.
Phallus Face 3
http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o...e/snap0078.jpg
Phallus Face 3 Close-up
http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o...snap0093-1.jpg

Unless I'm mistaken, those eyes are identical to those of Majora's Mask.

Originally Posted by Gazebo

*IDEA(if no one has already said it ): So, if the engraving is indeed of the Stone Tower floating stone face, and the four pillar-like objects are four phalluses, this links the Woodfall temple with Ikana. The conclusion I draw is that the Ikanans must have built the Woodfall temple. The Ikanans worshipped the four giants. Why wouldn't they build temples to them? This theory would be stronger if we can find evidence of Ikanan architecture or symbols in the other two temples.

However, wasn't the purpose of the Stone Tower to get to the vortex/portal in the sky, and invade heaven? This purpose isn't exactly the same as building a temple for a giant. Furthermore, if the building of the Stone Tower led to the fall of the Ikanan Empire, the Ikanans would have had to build the Stone Tower after they had completed the three other temples. What purpose would they have in building three temples far away, before building one near their castle?

Still working on this one.

Well perhaps before they built Stone Tower they built the three temples to the first three giants as some kind of stronghold, intended to keep some safety for the giants. Or else maybe there was something where Stone Tower was before it got built? And they built the tower up from the temple. Maybe even something happened which made the temple collapse and the garo blamed it on the Goddesses, leading them to build the tower in revenge

EDIT: I've just noticed the search beam, or whatever it is that shines from the Clock Tower. Perhaps this was some kind of signal to the people in the temples/stone tower?

I found a screenshot on ZU:
http://www.zeldauniverse.net/gallery...lbum=8&pos=138

In response to the point about looking for evidence in other temples i Have been watching a Youtube video of snowhead temple. So far i have noticed:

1) a pattern around doors which seems similar to some of the other patterns
2) A pattern which looks like a face in the wizzrobe room, although i can't see it properly
3) Somehow the player uses bombs to propel link across a large space. I'm not sure how it is done but perhaps it could be used to explore stone tower in more detail?

I couldn't find much else but if anyone wants to watch the video it is here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n2Y-Va73Uig

First of all. Acually I can´t see any eyes on your screenshots. However. I think I remember it from the game. I remember I thought that the people that lived/worshipped/was being worshipped in there was cannibals. It bugged me.

The bomb jumping trick. I´ve never been able to pull it off myself, but I haven´t tried much either. I found this video however. With this trick, they say you can jump to the beginning of the game. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D2a2j6wjpIU

About the temples. I thought up several reasons. (Yet I still don´t know why they make them so big)
1. They were trying to find the proper place to reach the heaven.
2. They thought each giant needed a temple of it´s own. Which inclines that a certain giant protected a certain area, a thought that has never occured to me before. But it fits with what Gaebora Kaepora said (spelling).
"This swamp has lost it´s guard diety..."

To be honest, I don´t think that the river are vitally important for the storyline. Perhaps they have some symbolic value, but otherwise.... Every landscape/world has to have one. Also, remeber that every river always strives (spelling) towards the sea.

Also in the Clocktown, there are several markings (not necessarily paintings) that shows that every race has left it´s mark on clocktown. For an example, the dekuflowers.

Warning! Following text might be hard to understand/follow.

Anju´s granmother said that all four races lived in harmony in clocktown a loong time ago. (and the giants lived among them..) So they probaly built it together to. After they built their own homes in the various directions. Sounds smarter, build home first, then capitol.(which means that Clocktown is newer than Ikana, it´s not as worn down. But none has lived in Ikana in a long time that could have repaired it.)
If they built it together, perhaps the reason why the style resembles the Ikanian so much (just not as primitive, I mean the houses are practilly mud huts) is because that it was the style that fitted the best for the races to all live in. (Or the humans were domestic). Then, after that the giants had moved, of some reason the other races moved as well. I have thought up two (3) possible reasons why:

1. They built their homes after they built clocktown, and the reason why they built their new homes was because they had a fight with eachother and decided that they can´t live together anymore. (Or it was love between races, who knows?)

1½. The moved apart because they decided to follow the giants to their protected areas. (Which also suggests that the other cities was built after Clocktown.) And there they built the temples and cities, trying to be as close to their gods as possible.

2.Something bad happened in Ikana. ( You know, like all Garos being slaughtered or something like that). So all humans that lived there either died or moved to Clocktown. And the other races was kind enough to move out so that the Ikanians would have a place to live in.

I really can´t tell which was built first. Btw Gazebo ehhr.....could I ask you a favor? Could you... post a screenshot of running Bunnyman in OoT? I´m trying to make a manga about him but I can´t find any good screenshots or pictures anywhere....:embrsd:
Pretty please with sugar on top?

Originally Posted by Crustacean

On my previous theory about the river, my idea was that the people of Clock Town constructed the underground river while the Clock Tower was being built, in order to power the mill underneath the Clock Tower, which powers the clock. Due to the fact that it is underground, I doubt they would have made it as a trade route.

Yeah, I figured as much. I've sort of given up on my trade route idea, it doesn't work out correctly.

Originally Posted by Gazebo

It does resemble a fortress, or protected area, and I think you're on to something. However, it would be odd that the children (and/or women) would leave their protection to paint on the outer wall. I think the four cardinal-direction symbols on the outer wall must have been made during a time of peace. And if the Ikanans built Clock Town, the alleged "time of peace" must have been when they first built it, if this was before the war, or after, when the war was over, and Ikana was ruined.

It would have been strange for them to paint on the outer wall during a time of war, but it would be certainly plauseable for them to paint on the inside. The painting on the outside was probably done after it was done being constructed, but that's beside the point. If Clocktown was built before the war started, how did they know to build it as a fortress? Also, I've noticed very simular paintings in Ikana Castle and Clocktown, the sun that is located in the first room of Ikana Castle and the sun on the platform. Sorry for the screenshot-less post, I might come back and put in screenshots of these two areas later, I just don't have the time at the moment.

Also, what you guys are saying about the Woodfall temple being built by the Ikanas is, I'll admit, hard for me to accept. But it does make sence. I don't really see a bunch of Deku standing out in the middle of water that they could easily drown in building a temple. However I don't think all of the temples were built in tribute to the giants, expectually not Great Bay Temple. I'd much prefer to say that the Great Bay Temple was built by achient Zoras, perhaps the ansestors of Mikau or Lulu (Most likely Lulu)

Originally Posted by Guy Westcott

In response to the point about looking for evidence in other temples i Have been watching a Youtube video of snowhead temple. So far i have noticed:

1) a pattern around doors which seems similar to some of the other patterns
2) A pattern which looks like a face in the wizzrobe room, although i can't see it properly
3) Somehow the player uses bombs to propel link across a large space. I'm not sure how it is done but perhaps it could be used to explore stone tower in more detail?

There is another eerie face on Snowhead's boss door. I don't think it has its mouth open.

2) I have just started replaying the game, and I have just been through Woodfall temple and I noticed some wall carvings (sorry I can't get pictures) which appear firstly in the entrance room and then in more rooms throughout. In the middle of these carving is a square face which seems similar to the faces on the stone tower blocks. Above and below this face are each two rectangles which look similar to the phallus pillars (two above the face, two below, pointing in) Could this be relevant? Also starting in the second room, above the locked door is a gargoyle carving but it doesn't seem related to everything else. Finally in the woodfall temple, above most of the doors there seems to be a faint image of what looks like a butterfly, but again seems to be the compass design, the four "wing" circles representing the four points.

Wow, I'd always thought those four things around the face were just hands. The face below the butterfly image seems like another Stone Tower reference. The head of the gargoyle image is horned and heart shaped, but I don't know what to make of it.

Originally Posted by Crustacean

Unless I'm mistaken, those eyes are identical to those of Majora's Mask.

That's what I thought. That could possibly be another Stone Tower reference, since the first thing you see after walking through the mouth of the temple entrance is the statue of Majora's Mask. Though it is upside-down.

I think that the three other temples might have been built after the Stone Tower, because that would explain why Majora's Mask's image is plastered over the blocks and switches in them. Great Bay Temple might have been the last one to be built, since it is the most technologically advanced. All the Terminians loved the Giants; if the Garos were destroyed while building the Stone Tower, maybe whatever race found Majora's Mask continued the construction of the temples.

So I think the Stone Tower was built as a stairway to the heavens, but when that plan failed the temple atop it was built in honor of Majora, initially. Afterwards, it was decided that a similar temple would be built in each of the four worlds, in honor of the Giants and Majora. This is just wild speculation, but perhaps Majora convinced the Terminians to build the four temples so that, unbeknownst to them, their beloved Giants could eventually be imprisoned inside them. Unstoppable, Majora would then proceed to destroy the godless Termina. Going back to the Carnival of Time story, Odolwa's remains are clearly visible in the picture that goes with the story (Tingle is also in there, oddly). Did Majora trick the Terminians into creating the four cursed masks, somehow?

Originally Posted by Gazebo

Hypothesis 1: The vortex is a tool for the programmers to make the boss portal beam. However, in the case of the Stone Tower, they left it visible as part of the storyline.

Hypothesis 2: The vortex is a tool for the programmers to make the boss portal beam. They forgot to "hide" the one in the Stone Temple.

It's almost certainly one of those two. I'm not sure if I believe the vortex was left there to serve the storyline, but it's weird that you couldn't find a similar vortex above Snowhead. Would they really hide three of them and forget the only one that the player can see, in one of the most architecturally significant rooms in the game?

Originally Posted by Guy Westcott

If he is the reincarnation of an ancient sage, and as he knows so much, he must somehow be a servant of the Goddesses. And perhaps the comment about him being lighthearted... could he possibly have been the one who gave the light arrows to the garo?

I wouldn't trust OoT details for MM clues; the game let you kill Skull Kid. I don't think the word lighthearted could have been meant to allude to that, given translation issues as well. Still, the owl in MM certainly seems to have a degree of divinity, and I doubt he is native to the wicked land of Termina, unless he was one of the first creations of the goddesses in that world. It's also interesting to consider how the goddesses got the Garos to use their Light Arrows. They could have used the owl, but Gomess might have had something to do with it, since the Light Arrows are her weakness. Maybe she and the Light Arrows were sent to the tower at the same time, and the Garos had to resort to using the arrows to survive.

Random question: how and why do the Gormans have the Garo's Mask?

Originally Posted by Oraiste

It would have been strange for them to paint on the outer wall during a time of war, but it would be certainly plauseable for them to paint on the inside. The painting on the outside was probably done after it was done being constructed, but that's beside the point. If Clocktown was built before the war started, how did they know to build it as a fortress? Also, I've noticed very simular paintings in Ikana Castle and Clocktown, the sun that is located in the first room of Ikana Castle and the sun on the platform.

I still think the sky-related paintings are allusions to Termina's long conflict with the heavens. Skull Kid was said to have been banished to the heavens, the goddesses lived in the heavens, Stone Tower was built to wage war against the heavens, Termina's doom was meant to come from the heavens, the Moon's Tear came from the heavens, a battle is waged in the heavens to save Termina, and a rainbow appears in the heavens when the land in spared. One of the first things Nintendo probably knew about Termina was that the moon was falling, so I suspect they then built the culture of the world around that central theme of a conflict with the heavens.

Random question: how and why do the Gormans have the Garo's Mask?

Maybe the Gormans are descendants of an Ikanian who fled the canyon during the war between the Garos. The masks (note that the Gormans have several Garo masks) could be from slain Garos (which is unlikely, due to the fact that they leave no corpse when they die.) A more plausable theory could be that the escaping Ikanian used a mask replicating a Garo in order to pass safely through the canyon while the battle was being waged. The Ikanian might have brought his wife and child with him (hence why there are two larger masks and a smaller one, which fits on Link.) The family could have settled in the Milk Road region. This theory lacks evidence, but it could be possible.

Originally Posted by Hylian Dan

I still think the sky-related paintings are allusions to Termina's long conflict with the heavens. Skull Kid was said to have been banished to the heavens, the goddesses lived in the heavens, Stone Tower was built to wage war against the heavens, Termina's doom was meant to come from the heavens, the Moon's Tear came from the heavens, a battle is waged in the heavens to save Termina, and a rainbow appears in the heavens when the land in spared. One of the first things Nintendo probably knew about Termina was that the moon was falling, so I suspect they then built the culture of the world around that central theme of a conflict with the heavens.

yes, when you think about it, their entire culture seems to be about the sky. Or rather, against it. Which only gives the opposite result.
The opposite of love is not hate. Hate is also a positive feeling. The opposite feelings is ignorance and despite. If you try to hate something, you keep your eyes on it. Watching it´s every move. Sounds a bit like the feeling first mentioned, eh?
And it´s quite useless to try to hate or despite the sky anyway, because nothing can live or exist without it. And you can´t escape it either.
Actually I pity the Terminians.

Random question; Are the Garo masks really different sizes? I´ve never noticed.

Originally Posted by PurachinaIto

Random question; Are the Garo masks really different sizes? I´ve never noticed.

I don't think so - I thought they had three because they had their brother Gorman, and now he mustn't use it. Maybe I'm wrong

ok, about the portals........they are the boss beams. the portals are in every doungen. trust me. to see them you have to beat the doungen ONCE then go inside the doungen so that the beam DOES NOT activate yet look up and the portal is there in EVERY doungen you can see it in the stone tower temple inverted easily and i think also in gerat bay

but i think youll have to cheat to see it in woodfall and in snow head

and then youll see that the portals are directly above the boos platforms and once the cut-seen is activated the portals are gone...............................but some thing still remains the portal in the right side up stone tower temple this is a mystery

I just thought of something. What if those statues pointing to the sky are supposed to symbolize light arrows?

The man-made towers of Termina are what I find the most perplexing. Why was termina so much more advanced than Hyrule? Why is there a portal leading from Hyrule to Termina under the clocktower,and why doesn 't anyone know about it? Whats the significance of the temple bosses relating to the giants? Whats with the masks? It truly is a game of questions. I think the game is darker than we know, and we already know its dark.

I have yet another question: If the stone tower was the main defiance to the godessess, why did the moon crash into the clocktower?

The Clock Tower is at the very center of Termina. The moon would destroy the entire world if it crashed into the center, but if the moon crashed directly into Stone Tower, parts of Termina would still be left unscathed.

Again, the reason that the portal from Hyrule ended up beneath the Clock Tower is probably because the Clock Tower is at the very center of Termina.

Originally Posted by Crustacean

The Clock Tower is at the very center of Termina. The moon would destroy the entire world if it crashed into the center, but if the moon crashed directly into Stone Tower, parts of Termina would still be left unscathed.

Again, the reason that the portal from Hyrule ended up beneath the Clock Tower is probably because the Clock Tower is at the very center of Termina.

But how do we know the tunnel at the bottom of the clock tower really leads to Hyrule? Could it not lead just outside Termina, or even to a remote part of Termina? After all, it says at the start of the game that Link crept away from the land that made him a legend - so he may well have been outside of Hyrule already.

As for Termina being so much more advanced than Hyrule, I'm not sure that's even true. The Great Bay Temple in Termina is advanced but to be honest the rest of the land isn't so advanced at all. And there are some quite advanced things in the Hyrulian temples too - the platform that lower so you can shine light on the face of the desert collosus inside the Spirit Temple, the rising and lowering water levels in the Water Temple, and the Hylians obviously know of electricity as they know what the monsters inside Jabu-Jabu are.

Also. One thing that always annoyed me. The Ikanians live/lived in mud huts. And they built that tower! It´s just strange.

Think of the Armos statues. Are they manmade? For what reason? Kinda out of thread, but... (they also appear in both games) You should also think that OoT was released before MM. So in MM they fixed some things that they didn´t like in OoT. Like they gave the guardian fairy some attitude. So it´s possible that they´ve just highlighted the technology more in MM.

Alarming headache, quitting post NOW!

definatley think that Termina is more advanced. Look at Goht, hes entirely mechanical. Or if they weren't that advanced, who built him, or the Great Bay Temple? The aliens that attacked Romani Ranch maybe? (or whatever they are...)

The architecture of the temples are too different, which makes me think they weren't all built by the same group. But at some point they all have depictions of Majora in them.

Originally Posted by Guy Westcott

But how do we know the tunnel at the bottom of the clock tower really leads to Hyrule? Could it not lead just outside Termina, or even to a remote part of Termina? After all, it says at the start of the game that Link crept away from the land that made him a legend - so he may well have been outside of Hyrule already.

At the very beginning of the game, Link is travelling through the Lost Woods when he is ambushed by the Skull Kid. I don't think he actually enters Termina until he falls through the chasm.

The Terminians are slightly more technologically advanced than the Hyrulians, demonstrated by their use of clocks, pictograph boxes (the fisherman in Great Bay mentions that there are colour pictographs as well,) conveyor belts (Sakon's hideout,) etc. They share similarities with the Hyrulians too, such as bombs, mechanical bombchus, water/wind powered machinery, the jukebox, etc. Things such as the Great Bay Temple and Goht were probably not created by the Terminians (by Terminians I mean the humans living in Termina,) as they seem far too advanced.

I am just amazed, that is one the most unique theories I have heard, and I really think that every part makes complete sense. I love it!
As for the game being eerie, the answer may never be know why some of the decor was perverse, or maybe symbolic, but we can't know unless we could get in to creators' heads. And I hate to think that the theory migh tbe a bit to deep, just basing it on the factor of the younger generation still playing it today, but you never know.

Originally Posted by TheSame_Strider

definatley think that Termina is more advanced. Look at Goht, hes entirely mechanical. Or if they weren't that advanced, who built him, or the Great Bay Temple? The aliens that attacked Romani Ranch maybe? (or whatever they are...)

The architecture of the temples are too different, which makes me think they weren't all built by the same group. But at some point they all have depictions of Majora in them.

Goht and the Beamos, Eyegores (?) and Armosknights all seem to be mechanical. They aslo resemble each other (If you look at them in a mechanical way, not estethic). So they could be made by the same (beings). I´m not so sure about the eyegores though, they seem more...living. This doesn´t incline that I know who built them, I´ve got no clue. But several of these enemies appear in both games. (note what I said in my previous post about upgrading) Also the Stone tower knight (I don´t really remember their name, but you know, the eerie thingies that only appear in Stone tower) seem mechanical. The fireflies that attack you in the swamp is using electricity.
Random question: Why would anyone build enemies? Unless to attck others?

The architecture is not only totally different, it seems to be from different times as well. It´s like they built one temple at a time. That took a lot of time. Then they moved to another site and started building a new temple in a new design. It´s like either they tried to come up with the ultimate temple design, or they were trying to find the proper build site. Or each giant needed a special design that remind of the site were it´s built because the giants are protecting the specific area were the temple is built.

Btw, TheSame_Strider... I like your avatar ^^ It´s really cute!