Stone Tower of Babel: Why Termina was Doomed

Mmm... When I began to play, the game felt to me like the darkest in all Zelda series, suddenly, it became creepier.

I think that there is a lot of content in TP that's supports your theory but,
Zant was a usurper king, it was fake

Originally posted by Hylian Dan:I think on days 2 and 3, and/or after you clear the spiders, a guy appears to seek refuge in that house. I haven't gone back to check because I'm not sure if I'd have to clear out the spiders again to hear him say that, and because I forgot.

That´s true, once you´ve cleared the ocean spider house and have talked to guy upstairs. Then you go outside, and inside again. He´ll be on the bottom floor, and if you speak to him he´ll say it.

Beside, I have once again cleared Stone tower. But this time I kept my eyes open for any clues. And look at this. In Ikana Castle there are wallpaintings of skeletons standing on skulls of oxes. there is also a wall painting (also on most of the doors) that you can see two different pictures in. One is a big, evil face with a snake tounge (just like the blocks) and the other is someone with a round head holding up his arms in worshiping. you can´t see them both atthe same time, but they are in the same picture. There are other wallpaintings to, but those where the only ones I could see what they were resembling.

Another thing I noticed was that Tatl said that "It is Gomess", not it´s a Gomess. meaning there is only one of him. (or her, hard to tell) That kinda bugged me.

Originally Posted by Link-herooftime

Yes, the Tower of Babel did indeed become Babylon, the Golden Age of our world, but where is it now?

Under about 50 feet of dust and rubble!

As quoted:

Revaltions 18:2

And he cried mightily with a strong voice, saying, Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen, and is become the habitation of devils, and the hold of every foul spirit, and a cage of every unclean and hateful bird.

(Note: This is KJV, which is the english transLATION, not transLITERATION.)

Actualy not anymore Saddam rebult it and it wills oon be the Antichrist's Capitol.

It got really creepy now that we´re starting to tie our own religion and politics to this. I´m fine with having a partly hidden motive behind the stone tower, but I don´t want to tie it to reality in that way.

Given more thoughts about Ikana castle anyway. I hardly doubt that they repainted all the walls and doors after, well everybody died and so on, so I think that some of those paintings really tell something. They bug the hell outta me anyway. Skeletons standing on bullskulls, in a worshiping pose. That´s not really a everyday motive of walls in castle, are they? Not even in a twisted land as Termina that can be normal. But the worst is the second motive. The satan like face with a snake tounge, but also a very round headed person reaching out the hands for a..... ball? Or is it some kind of light? or force?

This can be just me going way to deep into this, but a castle isn´t supposed to have a interior design like that. But after all, nothing seems to be like it should in Termina, even less in Ikana.

These are really intriguing theories, and they remind me why I love MM so much more than OOT. In MM, it truly felt like Nintendo completely made their own culture. It was just so detailed. Nonetheless, I'd like to read all the pages of this thread. It's really compelling, and really makes me want to play through the game again. Ikana was always my favorite area, because it was truly the most mystifying and mysterious. I'll look into these myself, and now I look foward to playing TP again to investigatenpossible relations between the Twilight Realm and Majora's Mask.

I forgot where it said this, but somewhere in the thread it said that mabye Majora was the dark god. I think the actual dark god is Fierce Dinesty Link because he is much more powerful than Majora and its origonal name was "Oni (Evil) Link". Does that give you mor of a hint with the FD mask?

Originally Posted by Arin/Knight

I forgot where it said this, but somewhere in the thread it said that mabye Majora was the dark god. I think the actual dark god is Fierce Dinesty Link because he is much more powerful than Majora and its origonal name was "Oni (Evil) Link". Does that give you mor of a hint with the FD mask?

Oh, right, and Majora is the god of light, and proving it by ruining tons of people's life. Brilliant deduction. But I guess Majora can see the mask as evil and himself good or something like that. Hey Hylian Dan come back and give us more of this theoryy!!!

Ha Ha. I mean that like since Majora's Mask and the Fierce Dinesty mask are most likely from the same place, that they are both evil, but since link was waring it using it for good, it couldn't be used for evil.

Originally Posted by PurachinaIto

Given more thoughts about Ikana castle anyway. I hardly doubt that they repainted all the walls and doors after, well everybody died and so on, so I think that some of those paintings really tell something. They bug the hell outta me anyway. Skeletons standing on bullskulls, in a worshiping pose. That´s not really a everyday motive of walls in castle, are they? Not even in a twisted land as Termina that can be normal. But the worst is the second motive. The satan like face with a snake tounge, but also a very round headed person reaching out the hands for a..... ball? Or is it some kind of light? or force?

I finally played MM again to check out this stuff.

First of all, there is the emblem of the man with two faces, which I believe is extremely important in some way. This is the emblem that you see in all its glory inside the Clock Tower, on the wall behind the Mask Salesman. Since it is found at the very center of Termina, I think the design is a sort of metaphor for the suffering of the people of Termina. The top face is a mask, the face the person shows to the world. The other one is the person's true face, the one that remains hidden and troubled.

I realized that this same emblem appears elsewhere in the Clock Tower as well. You can see it on the corners of the walls of the lower level. This time the person is standing on something else, but it's hard to tell what it is. It sort of resembles a bullskull.

When you head to Ikana, you see the same emblem on the robe of the mysterious ghost who permits you to enter that land. You also see it on the brooch of Igos du Ikana himself, as well as on the brooches of his servants.



A more colorful version of the emblem also appears on the walls and floors throughout Ikana Castle. In this version of it, the figure seems to have wings, which look similar to the in-game beard of the King of Ikana. The design of the Captain's Hat also reminded me of this emblem.

Another prominent emblem is the one of the two peacocks facing each other, which is plastered over the gates of the castle. In other rooms you can see emblems of one of the peacocks standing alone or two of them facing away from each other.

The doors in the castle show another variation of the person with two faces, but here his/her head is heart-shaped, unlike in the other versions of this emblem. I think the heart shape either represents one of the peacocks facing you instead of being shown in profile, or some person wearing Majora's Mask.

I don't really know what to make of the emblems of the skulls, bullskulls, skeletons, and flames.

So here's my lateset theory about Ikana. I'm not sure whether I actually believe this one yet; it occured to me while I was playing.

I think the Garos defeated the army of Skull Keeta, and that was the loss that had shamed him so much. The Garos then slaughtered the people of Ikana, and proceeded (or continued) to build the Stone Tower. They filled the emblem of the tower with the blood of Ikana, as a warning to the goddesses that they would be slaughtered next. The goddesses responded by giving the Garos the Light Arrows, which flipped the tower when their light shone on the blood of Ikana ("On my kingdom... shine the light of justice"). The Garos found Majora's Mask's prison instead of the Sacred Realm, and they began worshipping the mask.

Something then happened inside the tower that consumed the souls of the Garos and left them as shells. Perhaps the goddesses sent the vampire-like Gomess to do this (since Gomess's name is similar to the word goddess). Maybe the Eyegore had something to do with it, since "gore" is similar to "Garo". Or maybe it was Majora, somehow.

Flat and Sharp survived the earlier massacre, and they composed the Elegy of Emptiness in order to enter the Stone Tower of the Garos. Inside, Sharp found someone wearing Majora's Mask, and that devil offered to revive the Royal Family in exchange for Sharp's soul. Sharp agreed to the deal and the evil power escaped the tower and cursed Ikana. But Majora had tricked Sharp, so Ikana's royalty was revived as the undead.

Majora's Mask escaped the tower and maybe fell into the possession of Ikana, where it remained for years. Eventually the Happy Mask Salesman came to Ikana, which is evidenced by the Mirror Shield mask he has. He found Majora's Mask and brought it to Hyrule.

Originally Posted by maian

I'll look into these myself, and now I look foward to playing TP again to investigatenpossible relations between the Twilight Realm and Majora's Mask.

I think a connection is hinted at, but the connection isn't tied to the plot and is merely symbolic. I still haven't finished the game, though.
The Fused Shadows and Zant's Mask are both related to the Twili Tribe, which rebelled against the goddesses by trying to take over the Sacred Realm. The eyes of the Fused Shadows are unmistakably the same eyes as those of Majora's Mask, which many people have noticed. The eyeballs of Zant's Mask resemble the compass emblem of Termina. Zant's Mask is also sticking its tongue out, like the Stone Tower statues. I think these connections simply refer to how both the Twili and the Terminians rebelled against the goddesses.

That was very interesting... very cool... Legend of Zelda is all about man kind abusing God's creations and power... and about a saviour boy who will smite the evil and return the land to peace... because he was blessed by the gods.

Originally Posted by Hylian Dan

I finally played MM again to check out this stuff.

First of all, there is the emblem of the man with two faces, which I believe is extremely important in some way. This is the emblem that you see in all its glory inside the Clock Tower, on the wall behind the Mask Salesman. Since it is found at the very center of Termina, I think the design is a sort of metaphor for the suffering of the people of Termina. The top face is a mask, the face the person shows to the world. The other one is the person's true face, the one that remains hidden and troubled.

I realized that this same emblem appears elsewhere in the Clock Tower as well. You can see it on the corners of the walls of the lower level. This time the person is standing on something else, but it's hard to tell what it is. It sort of resembles a bullskull.

When you head to Ikana, you see the same emblem on the robe of the mysterious ghost who permits you to enter that land. You also see it on the brooch of Igos du Ikana himself, as well as on the brooches of his servants.

Since all those wallpaintings look very old, and the emblem looks kinda godess abusing, my guess is that Termina has been corrupted for a loong time. That clocktower has been there since the giants lived among the people! And while I´m at it, either that is a popular theme, or the Ikana castle, the clocktower and the clocktown was built at the same time. Because having the same emblem like that, it´s unusual in most cultures unless it´s a religious theme. Time change, design change. Then we have the fact that two people wears that emblem on their clothes. One is a king, and the other one... wel I don´t really know what he is, but it´s something spiritual for sure. It´s definetly a religious theme.

A more colorful version of the emblem also appears on the walls and floors throughout Ikana Castle. In this version of it, the figure seems to have wings, which look similar to the in-game beard of the King of Ikana. The design of the Captain's Hat also reminded me of this emblem.

Another prominent emblem is the one of the two peacocks facing each other, which is plastered over the gates of the castle. In other rooms you can see emblems of one of the peacocks standing alone or two of them facing away from each other.

The doors in the castle show another variation of the person with two faces, but here his/her head is heart-shaped, unlike in the other versions of this emblem. I think the heart shape either represents one of the peacocks facing you instead of being shown in profile, or some person wearing Majora's Mask.

I don't really know what to make of the emblems of the skulls, bullskulls, skeletons, and flames.

I´ll replay that part and look for these details. Then I´ll see if I can make a comment on it.

So here's my lateset theory about Ikana. I'm not sure whether I actually believe this one yet; it occured to me while I was playing.

I think the Garos defeated the army of Skull Keeta, and that was the loss that had shamed him so much. The Garos then slaughtered the people of Ikana, and proceeded (or continued) to build the Stone Tower. They filled the emblem of the tower with the blood of Ikana, as a warning to the goddesses that they would be slaughtered next. The goddesses responded by giving the Garos the Light Arrows, which flipped the tower when their light shone on the blood of Ikana ("On my kingdom... shine the light of justice"). The Garos found Majora's Mask's prison instead of the Sacred Realm, and they began worshipping the mask.

Something then happened inside the tower that consumed the souls of the Garos and left them as shells. Perhaps the goddesses sent the vampire-like Gomess to do this (since Gomess's name is similar to the word goddess). Maybe the Eyegore had something to do with it, since "gore" is similar to "Garo". Or maybe it was Majora, somehow.

Flat and Sharp survived the earlier massacre, and they composed the Elegy of Emptiness in order to enter the Stone Tower of the Garos. Inside, Sharp found someone wearing Majora's Mask, and that devil offered to revive the Royal Family in exchange for Sharp's soul. Sharp agreed to the deal and the evil power escaped the tower and cursed Ikana. But Majora had tricked Sharp, so Ikana's royalty was revived as the undead.

Majora's Mask escaped the tower and maybe fell into the possession of Ikana, where it remained for years. Eventually the Happy Mask Salesman came to Ikana, which is evidenced by the Mirror Shield mask he has. He found Majora's Mask and brought it to Hyrule.
I think a connection is hinted at, but the connection isn't tied to the plot and is merely symbolic. I still haven't finished the game, though.

This theory shows some new ideas to tie the other theories together. It sounds likely, but there is still some empty spaces in it. But the salesman got himself two masks in Ikana then? The mirror mask and majoras mask? ( I referre to the mirrorshield-resembling mask as mirror mask, it´s not as hard to write.)

Quick theory! whatever creature the mirrormask/shield was, it was healed by the mask salesman with the song of healing. Interesting thought, could it be that Majora once where a creature that was healed using that song? because the "incarnation" and "wrath" should look more like Majoras true form, shouldn´t it?
Anyway, back to the mirror theory. Have you heard of Medusa? She was a frightening...thing, back in old greece mythology. Her gaze turned everything she looked at into stone. Then she got her head chopped off... Warriors used to paint her face on their shields to "stone" or frighten their enemies. And here´s the purpose off telling you this! Mirror creature is probaly extinct, but it was one heck of a frightening creature. So they made a shield with the portrait of a mirror creature to frighten their enemys. And it could be that they made the mask to, but it sounds more exiting that it´s a soul mask. I mean why would the masksalesman have a homemade frighten mask?

this is a long reply, I know that. But just one more thing to everyone that have read this far. Consider everything I´ve written this far. Then consider the fact that the mask salesman has the Mario mask! OMG, now we know what will happen in the future with Mario. And we can even fit Mario in the timeline! Poor thing. Wait! does that mean that the salesman can tranform into Mario? *Overwhelming* How many games have we played as the salesman instead of Mario? LOL

Originally Posted by PurachinaIto

Since all those wallpaintings look very old, and the emblem looks kinda godess abusing, my guess is that Termina has been corrupted for a loong time. That clocktower has been there since the giants lived among the people! And while I´m at it, either that is a popular theme, or the Ikana castle, the clocktower and the clocktown was built at the same time. Because having the same emblem like that, it´s unusual in most cultures unless it´s a religious theme. Time change, design change. Then we have the fact that two people wears that emblem on their clothes. One is a king, and the other one... wel I don´t really know what he is, but it´s something spiritual for sure. It´s definetly a religious theme.

I don't know about the version of the emblem that appears on the doors of the castle, since that one seems to be much more sinister. As for the other versions of the emblem, I don't think they are blasphemous; I think they represent the general torment of Termina and its people, and how they are in need of healing. That's the general theme of the game, so it's logical that it's one of the first things you see when you start playing. I'm not sure why that's such a prominent emblem in Ikana.

This theory shows some new ideas to tie the other theories together. It sounds likely, but there is still some empty spaces in it.

Yeah. It seems likely that Ikanians built the Clock Tower since their emblem is displayed there, but it's hard to fit that detail in with this theory.

Still, it seems pretty clear that Ikana Kingdom was conquered and destroyed, then revived by the curse of the Stone Tower due to Sharp. The evil Garos seem to have been undone by some dark force that stole their souls, rather than by an opposing army.

But the salesman got himself two masks in Ikana then? The mirror mask and majoras mask? ( I referre to the mirrorshield-resembling mask as mirror mask, it´s not as hard to write.)

Quick theory! whatever creature the mirrormask/shield was, it was healed by the mask salesman with the song of healing.

Awesome idea. Maybe that person was the one who had been keeping Majora's Mask through the years after it had been found in the desert.

Interesting thought, could it be that Majora once where a creature that was healed using that song? because the "incarnation" and "wrath" should look more like Majoras true form, shouldn´t it?

I've wondered that before, but I don't think there should be any association between Majora and the theme of healing. Majora's Mask represents the polar opposite of healing, a parasite that torments and consumes souls by pretending to offer comfort. People like the kid in the moon field wear the mask to hide their loneliness, but it only adds to their isolation. I think the Wrath is Majora's truest form, and it had been lurking all along inside the mask. It uses the mask as a facade to lure in troubled souls like Skull Kid. I think Majora had always existed as a demon, never as an entity that had been healed.

Anyway, back to the mirror theory. Have you heard of Medusa? She was a frightening...thing, back in old greece mythology. Her gaze turned everything she looked at into stone. Then she got her head chopped off... Warriors used to paint her face on their shields to "stone" or frighten their enemies. And here´s the purpose off telling you this! Mirror creature is probaly extinct, but it was one heck of a frightening creature. So they made a shield with the portrait of a mirror creature to frighten their enemys. And it could be that they made the mask to, but it sounds more exiting that it´s a soul mask. I mean why would the masksalesman have a homemade frighten mask?

The Mirror Shield might have come from the Stone Tower and have been brought to the castle at the same time the obscene block was brought there. The shield reflects light, which isn't wanted in the castle. On the other hand, the Stone Tower holds several mirrors of its own.

Originally Posted by Hylian Dan

I don't know about the version of the emblem that appears on the doors of the castle, since that one seems to be much more sinister. As for the other versions of the emblem, I don't think they are blasphemous; I think they represent the general torment of Termina and its people, and how they are in need of healing. That's the general theme of the game, so it's logical that it's one of the first things you see when you start playing. I'm not sure why that's such a prominent emblem in Ikana.

The Ikanas is in bigger need of soul healing than the others. (sure the other races is dying, but it´s sorta worse with dead tormenting the living) And Ikana is the source of evil. "Don´t attack the arrow, attack the archer". Defeat the source of evil. (Why defeat the source last? Stupid Link...But the source was best guarded. And everyone did their best to stop him in Ikana, very helpful.)

Yeah. It seems likely that Ikanians built the Clock Tower since their emblem is displayed there, but it's hard to fit that detail in with this theory.

Yep, you need to find some more facts about the clocktower itself. All I know is that it´s very old. But wait a minute....

Originally posted by Anjus Granny.
In the dawn of time, each race lived in harmony in this town. And the giants lived among them.

Perhaps it´s not exactly what she said, but you get the point. All races lived together in clock town. Then something bad happened, because the giants decided to guard the people from afar. (note that they speak of four giants in the dawn of time, not five) And the people was shattered. (I think this is what happened, I don´t remember what she said.) So the Ikana´s lived in clock town. And they could have built the clocktower. And when they moved, they built the castle. And decorated in their godess abusing style? They are weird.

Awesome idea. Maybe that person was the one who had been keeping Majora's Mask through the years after it had been found in the desert.

Well, whoever held the mask before the skullkid must have become corrupted by it. And probaly frightened by the dark power the mask contained, once he found out about them. Because they don´t reveal themselves at first, but it lures a victim near first. Then he couldn´t get separated from it. (soulconsuming?) So he became a mere shell of himself, with that frightened look on his face. The mask probaly made him do some evil doings, that scared him even more. Such as soulsuck the Garos, for example. Wait! he could have been a Garo from the first, since it seems that the Garos found the mask first. And then the mask killed all his friends. That would probaly give most people a sad face. After that it´s a bit unclear, because we have no idea where the salesman found the mask. But it probaly where somewhere in Termina. (Majora seem unable to leave Termina, but wait...didn´t the salesman come from Hyrule when he was attackted by the skullkid?) So it could have been anywhere. But the salesman researches about the mask, tracks it. And finds poor mirror feller almost dead, but still clinging to the mask. Or could it be that mirror guy lost the mask when he became to weak for it´s power? And the masks power was the only thing that kept him alive. So when the mask was removed, he was dying with lingering regrets. (Luke, I am your father! Luke, remove my mask. NO! YOU`LL DIE THEN! I´LL DIE ANYWAY! Let me once see your face with my own eyes) And salesman finds him, plays song of healing. He gets a new, nice mask.

The Mirror Shield might have come from the Stone Tower and have been brought to the castle at the same time the obscene block was brought there. The shield reflects light, which isn't wanted in the castle. On the other hand, the Stone Tower holds several mirrors of its own.

That´s quite a mystery. Why was the mirror shield created? It could have been made by someone that wanted the Stone tower to get closed. Since the mirror shield is needed to activate the Stone tower mirrors, I mean. But it wasn´t wanted in either instances? You found it in the well. The Garos know about the passage between the wells. Perhaps mirror feller created it himself so that someone could defeat the mask (temple, castle etc.)

Wow, that's actually... REALLY credible? This is the first time I heard a fan theory and instead of cursing the heavens for surrounding me with artard fanboys, actually THOUGHT about what was being said.

Thank you for impressing me. ♥

Heck, wish I had noticed this thread before posting my nonsense about Ikana valley.

Now I have to admit that I did not read through all the 15 pages but I’m planning to do it soon, so I don’t know if this subject has already been talked about. If the towers were indeed made to reach to home of gods, or ‘dethrone’ them, maybe the Giant Mask was built to dethrone the earthly messenger of / link to the gods. It could be that the people who built the Towers were actually trying to put their man in place of a god chosen giant.

This would also explain the similarity between Giant Mask and the mask of Garo Champion, if Garo are indeed the breed of those who built the towers.

Great stuff I must say.

Originally Posted by Legioona

Heck, wish I had noticed this thread before posting my nonsense about Ikana valley.

Now I have to admit that I did not read through all the 15 pages but I’m planning to do it soon, so I don’t know if this subject has already been talked about. If the towers were indeed made to reach to home of gods, or ‘dethrone’ them, maybe the Giant Mask was built to dethrone the earthly messenger of / link to the gods. It could be that the people who built the Towers were actually trying to put their man in place of a god chosen giant.

This would also explain the similarity between Giant Mask and the mask of Garo Champion, if Garo are indeed the breed of those who built the towers.

Great stuff I must say.

You kinda lost me with all the slashes, but I see what you mean. I´ll just try to sum it up first.

Godesess have an earthly messenger. A link to the gods.
The Garos want to be the new messengers of the godesess? The godesess that they abuse by building the Stone tower? With the four giant, phallistic pillars?
So they build (make?) the giant mask in order to defeat the former messenger. ( We have actually discussed the giant mask, and the conclusion were that it was probaly a soul mask, read the thread for details)
Then probaly everything screwed up. Gods don´t like getting abused.

I don´t know if it was like this you thought. I just tried to translate it into something that even I can understand Please tell me if I got something wrong here.

By thanks for reminding me. What was it with the giant mask? I actually don´t remember much of whats been said about it. But it is probaly in an early page off this tread. I´ll read it once more.

I think that the Giant's Mask was the weapon the Garos were planning to use to destroy the goddesses upon reaching the Sacred Realm. It would be in part a symbolic gesture, proving that the Giants were ultimately superior to the hated goddesses.

Originally Posted by Hylian Dan

I think that the Giant's Mask was the weapon the Garos were planning to use to destroy the goddesses upon reaching the Sacred Realm. It would be in part a symbolic gesture, proving that the Giants were ultimately superior to the hated goddesses.

I´ve just reread this thread. (okey, I just looked through it quickly). I think there is a connection between the giant mask and the spikes on Majoras mask.

This might sound like a longshot, but I noticed that the set of spikes on Majora has been discussed before.
a green set for the swamp.
a red set for the mountain.
a blue set for the ocean.
a yellow set for the canyon.
And another yellow set.... either for clocktown or canyon. (C´mon, how many here think it´s for the ranch?)

I´m going to throw myself into a colour discussion again. Darn.

Also notice the colours of the light when you play the elegy of emptiness.

Goron: red
Zora: blue
Deku: green
Kokiri: green

No yellow. Is it because Ikana doesn´t have a race of it´s own? Or is it because yellow is evil? (I know it sounds weird)

Oh, thats right, I was going to point out a possible connection between the giant mask and the set of spikes, right? Well, here we go.
Two sets of yellow spikes. Not one, but two. Yellow for evil and Ikana. Spikes for giants. Two yellow spike sets, two Ikana giants. But since one pair of these spikes is on Majoras head. I guess that means that whatever those spikes represent it´s more important than the four directions. Like the center of the directions. Clock town. Oh ****. There must be some sort of connection between Ikana and Clock town. But I doubt that there is a fifth (or has been) giant in Clocktown.

Some of my theories are really fuzzy, I admit that ^^.

i think i have a good idea of what the creature that is licking tri-force might be....

okay, so i was walking around clock town and i was at the east entrance looking at the pillars. then i looked at the degsign of the entrance itself. then while looking at the east gate i said to myself "long tounge........."

i immeadaly thought of a frog

because if you look at the east gate if it is the same creature it looks a lot like a frog.

I think all of these theories are very interesting. The towers, the Giant's Mask, even the Majora's Mask spike color theory. I just wish I had something to contribute.