Music Chit-Chat Thread Track 01: The Rumours of My Virtue They Moved Her Not At All

Originally Posted by Tonchiki

Pink Floyd caused me to coin the term "Pink Floyd song", describing any song with about two minutes of quiet and boring buildup (usually including various sound effects) before the actual damn song starts.

Granted, I am actually unaware of how many Pink Floyd songs are like this (I don't listen to them... then again, I hardly ever listen to specific bands, let alone remember who's who), and they're obviously not the first to do this or anything, but I must have run into several songs like that for me to start using that phrase.

Also, the Wall was alright.

I've got to agree with this. Time and Breath from Dark Side of the Moon are guilty of this. Still good songs, though.

Originally Posted by Hot Dog

I've got to agree with this. Time and Breath from Dark Side of the Moon are guilty of this. Still good songs, though.

Yeah, they can still be good songs. It just takes longer to get to the good part and makes you wonder why there's unnecessary wasted time in the song.
I kinda just use the term "Pink Floyd song" in jest. It's a musical pet peeve of mine, I guess.

Wow, just wow.

Anyway, yeah, Pink Floyd is a fantastic band, and The Wall is easily one of my favorite albums. As are Dark Side and to a lesser extent, Wish You Were Here.

I'm also a pretty big fan of "A Momentary Lapse of Reason."

The Wall is their best work because it's music at it's highest form. It operates well musically and is extremely well written. Gilmour and Waters both understand their instruments at insane levels and were able to evoke the right amount of emotion out of the album's story. The album's story itself is good enough to stand on it's own. It's a story that's painfully human. Roger Water's voice work throughout the album shows a lot of range and sells the mental state of the protagonist throughout the album.

The album stands as something more than music. You'd be hard pressed to find an album's story more discussed and hotly debated. I myself had a lot of fun creating my own personal theory on the general progression of the album's story and I always have fun discussing it with other people. A lot of bands do Rock Operas, but none of them have come even close to doing it as well as Pink Floyd. It seems like a genre that was created for them, and if you're a fan of rock operas or storytelling in music in general, it's an album that should be among your favorites.

Dark Side is great just because the sound engineering on it is phenomenal and the album is a complete joy to the ears from beginning to end. Like usual, the top notch lyrics steal the show and Pink Floyd delves into the kinds of places that most other songs ignore with numbers with "Great Gig in the Sky" and "Brain Damage". I believe that while it isn't as ambitious as The Wall, it's less depressing and an easier listen, so I tend to enjoy it more often.

Originally Posted by Gatsby

Wow, just wow.

XD
I could leave a really snarky comment about that, but I guess I'll just leave it at this: To me, while storytelling in music is great, minutes of boring buildup is, well, boring.

That's only because you don't try and understand it and choose to be shallow and disregard it as something pointless.

Which is fine, because I was the same at one point. There was a time when I refused to listen to Shine On You Crazy Diamond because it was so long, but eventually I got over my silly predispositions, learned to be less judgmental, and it worked out because I appreciated more music instead of making face value conclusions and closing myself off to most of it.

The comments you're making aren't the comments of someone who appreciates music as a medium, they're the comments of the kind of kid who bases their music taste off what's found on MTV.

The boring intros your talking about are experiments in music, they're what Pink Floyd was all about. If it wearn't for the idea behind those things, the band wouldn't exist. If Pink Floyd never strived to do new things with music, they wouldn't have created the classics that are loved around the world today.

The reason you don't appreciate them is because you listen to Pink Floyd casually, you like them for some of your songs, but you don't appreciate what those songs do. And when it comes down to it, they didn't make those songs so you could listen to them on iTunes while doing their homework. They made these songs so you could listen to them alone and in the dark, taking in every sound, every lyric. Some of those build ups exists to spark interpretation, some are like the Helicopter effect in The Wall where it's just totally sound engineering masturbation. And you can hear the Helicopter and think it's pointless, but in context, the way that Helicopter sounds, the way it goes from one headphone, then both headphones, and the the other headphone to emulate the sound of it going overhead, that's extremely difficult to do, and it blew a lot of people's minds back in the day.

So you can not like them and not want to give them a chance, but don't think that they're lower or pointless when you won't even give them a chance.

Originally Posted by Gatsby

That's only because you don't try and understand it and choose to be shallow and disregard it as something pointless.

Which is fine, because I was the same at one point. There was a time when I refused to listen to Shine On You Crazy Diamond because it was so long, but eventually I got over my silly predispositions, learned to be less judgmental, and it worked out because I appreciated more music instead of making face value conclusions and closing myself off to most of it.

Whooo, boy, no need for holier-than-thou opinions, especially when it comes to music. Extended periods of sound effects in songs isn't necessarily good. It doesn't mean I'm "shallow" if I don't like them-- it means I want to listen to music and not sound effects. You can appreciate the buildup, fine, but to me it would be like having a few comic pages filled with nothing but black panels and narration or sound effects before the rest of it comes in. I don't think it's necessary and I don't think it adds anything.

I also said songs that do this can still be good-- it just forces me to fast-forward if I want to listen to them.

Originally Posted by Gatsby

The comments you're making aren't the comments of someone who appreciates music as a medium, they're the comments of the kind of kid who bases their music taste off what's found on MTV.

You have no idea how hard you're making me laugh right now.

The boring intros your talking about are experiments in music, they're what Pink Floyd was all about. If it wearn't for the idea behind those things, the band wouldn't exist. If Pink Floyd never strived to do new things with music, they wouldn't have created the classics that are loved around the world today.

The reason you don't appreciate them is because you listen to Pink Floyd casually, you like them for some of your songs, but you don't appreciate what those songs do. And when it comes down to it, they didn't make those songs so you could listen to them on iTunes while doing their homework. They made these songs so you could listen to them alone and in the dark, taking in every sound, every lyric. Some of those build ups exists to spark interpretation, some are like the Helicopter effect in The Wall where it's just totally sound engineering masturbation. And you can hear the Helicopter and think it's pointless, but in context, the way that Helicopter sounds, the way it goes from one headphone, then both headphones, and the the other headphone to emulate the sound of it going overhead, that's extremely difficult to do, and it blew a lot of people's minds back in the day.

So you can not like them and not want to give them a chance, but don't think that they're lower or pointless when you won't even give them a chance.

Alright, and is it so wrong that I don't care for those and I think it's just boring? If you like delving into meanings with stuff like that, fine, but you're also thinking my opinions are inferior because you think I think that this music is inferior. Which I never said it was. I said I personally find it boring and I don't think it adds anything. So don't be so eager to jump the gun.

I should add that I really hate when people think their opinions are more valid because they're "less judgmental" and they "learn to appreciate things". What a stupid way to denounce another's opinions. That reminds me of the kind of artist stereotype that people find any splatter of paint on a wall artistic. Which, of course, it is, but as I say, there really are two kinds of art: Good art and bad art. And paint splatters are certainly bad art.

Originally Posted by Florina Belmont

No.


Pink Floyd anyone?
Ive almost forgotten how mindbogglingly awesome The Wall is.

Hmmm. YES!
Pink Floyd is definately my favourite band!
I lean more towards Darkside myself, but both are great albums.

I must that I've really been into Billy Joel lately thanks to Andy's recommendations.

My favorites include:




I'm really surprised that a lot of his earlier works were ignored.

Originally Posted by Tonchiki

Whooo, boy, no need for holier-than-thou opinions, especially when it comes to music. Extended periods of sound effects in songs isn't necessarily good. It doesn't mean I'm "shallow" if I don't like them-- it means I want to listen to music and not sound effects. You can appreciate the buildup, fine, but to me it would be like having a few comic pages filled with nothing but black panels and narration or sound effects before the rest of it comes in. I don't think it's necessary and I don't think it adds anything.

I also said songs that do this can still be good-- it just forces me to fast-forward if I want to listen to them.
You have no idea how hard you're making me laugh right now.
Alright, and is it so wrong that I don't care for those and I think it's just boring? If you like delving into meanings with stuff like that, fine, but you're also thinking my opinions are inferior because you think I think that this music is inferior. Which I never said it was. I said I personally find it boring and I don't think it adds anything. So don't be so eager to jump the gun.

I should add that I really hate when people think their opinions are more valid because they're "less judgmental" and they "learn to appreciate things". What a stupid way to denounce another's opinions. That reminds me of the kind of artist stereotype that people find any splatter of paint on a wall artistic. Which, of course, it is, but as I say, there really are two kinds of art: Good art and bad art. And paint splatters are certainly bad art.

The word art doesn't mean anything because art is all about interpretation. Any opinion is just as valid as the other, so long as the same amount of thought was put into both of them. I'm not saying your opinion is invalid because of the conclusion you reached, I'm saying your opinion is invalid because you've put no thought into it.

Originally Posted by Gatsby

The word art doesn't mean anything because art is all about interpretation. Any opinion is just as valid as the other, so long as the same amount of thought was put into both of them. I'm not saying your opinion is invalid because of the conclusion you reached, I'm saying your opinion is invalid because you've put no thought into it.

Did I say the music was not artistic, or that it meant nothing? No. I said that I find those buildup periods boring and I don't feel that it adds anything.
I'm not debating the artistic merit of it, I'm offering my opinion and saying I don't prefer songs that do that.

So because I say that those parts bore me, my opinion is invalid?
Again, I'm stating my musical tastes. If I said I liked jazz (which I do) and you said you didn't (I don't know if you do or not), can I call your opinion invalid if you say the lengths of improvisation that goes on in many of those songs bores you? No. And neither can you to me.

Originally Posted by Tonchiki

Did I say the music was not artistic, or that it meant nothing? No. I said that I find those buildup periods boring and I don't feel that it adds anything.
I'm not debating the artistic merit of it, I'm offering my opinion and saying why I don't prefer songs that do that.

So because I say that those parts bore me, my opinion is invalid?
Again, I'm stating my musical tastes. If I said I liked jazz (which I do) and you said you didn't (I don't know if I do or not), can I call your opinion invalid if you say the lengths of improvisation that goes on in many of those songs bores you? No. And neither can you to me.

It'd depend on whether or not I knew that the lengths of improvisation were kinda representative of the individuality the Jazz encourages. If I did know everything behind it and said "I understand what they're trying to do and to their credit, they're doing it well, but it just doesn't personally appeal to me." Then I'd think my opinion would be just as valid.

If I said "I think it's lame and pointless when they stray away from the song and just randomly play their instruments." Then I feel that my opinion wouldn't be as valid because the fact that I didn't enjoy the song stemmed from my lack of understanding and had nothing to do with the actual quality of the song.

Originally Posted by Gatsby

It'd depend on whether or not I knew that the lengths of improvisation were kinda representative of the individuality the Jazz encourages. If I did know everything behind it and said "I understand what they're trying to do and to their credit, they're doing it well, but it just doesn't personally appeal to me." Then I'd think my opinion would be just as valid.

If I said "I think it's lame and pointless when they stray away from the song and just randomly play their instruments." Then I feel that my opinion wouldn't be as valid because the fact that I didn't enjoy the song stemmed from my lack of understanding and had nothing to do with the actual quality of the song.

I was unaware that one's musical preferences need to be so well-thought-out. I'm pretty sure it's as simple as "I do or don't like it". If we were discussing the merit of these songs, then what you're saying would be true, but we're not. I never was. I say they bore me, because they do.

Let me use an area I know better for an example. I dislike classical artwork such as old paintings. I find most of them boring. But do I know what they did to advance art? Do I appreciate the skill that goes into making it? Oh yes.

But it's freaking boring to me. And if I said "I find it boring-- it doesn't appeal to me", I wouldn't need any justification. It just plain doesn't appeal to me.
That's that. I'm not discussing its worth. I'm saying I find it boring.

EDIT:
By the way, if you used that "randomly play their instruments" thing to describe your preference, I wouldn't have a problem with it. But if you were to discuss its worth, then you'd need a lot more substance.

Im sorry Tonchiki but I agree with this post:

Wow, just wow.

Anyway, yeah, Pink Floyd is a fantastic band, and The Wall is easily one of my favorite albums. As are Dark Side and to a lesser extent, Wish You Were Here.

I'm also a pretty big fan of "A Momentary Lapse of Reason."

The Wall is their best work because it's music at it's highest form. It operates well musically and is extremely well written. Gilmour and Waters both understand their instruments at insane levels and were able to evoke the right amount of emotion out of the album's story. The album's story itself is good enough to stand on it's own. It's a story that's painfully human. Roger Water's voice work throughout the album shows a lot of range and sells the mental state of the protagonist throughout the album.

The album stands as something more than music. You'd be hard pressed to find an album's story more discussed and hotly debated. I myself had a lot of fun creating my own personal theory on the general progression of the album's story and I always have fun discussing it with other people. A lot of bands do Rock Operas, but none of them have come even close to doing it as well as Pink Floyd. It seems like a genre that was created for them, and if you're a fan of rock operas or storytelling in music in general, it's an album that should be among your favorites.

Dark Side is great just because the sound engineering on it is phenomenal and the album is a complete joy to the ears from beginning to end. Like usual, the top notch lyrics steal the show and Pink Floyd delves into the kinds of places that most other songs ignore with numbers with "Great Gig in the Sky" and "Brain Damage". I believe that while it isn't as ambitious as The Wall, it's less depressing and an easier listen, so I tend to enjoy it more often.

I really dont think theres anything boring about Pink Floyd at all. Those guys were masters of what they did and were completely original at the time. (also fun fact: Try playing The Wall whilst playing Chrono Trigger. Its really strange how well it goes together.)

Hot Dog, Billy Joel is bloody awesome!
Also Duran Duran

I'm getting into screamo and I'm not sure why.

Originally Posted by Florina Belmont

Im sorry Tonchiki but I agree with this post:

I really dont think theres anything boring about Pink Floyd at all. Those guys were masters of what they did and were completely original at the time. (also fun fact: Try playing The Wall whilst playing Chrono Trigger. Its really strange how well it goes together.)

Hey, that's great, as long as you don't go around posting "wow, just wow" when someone doesn't agree with it. :p

On a completely unrelated topic, does anyone else find Queen's "Princes of the Universe" to be ridiculously epic? (I know, hated word, but that's really the only word for it.)

Originally Posted by Florina Belmont

I really dont think theres anything boring about Pink Floyd at all. Those guys were masters of what they did and were completely original at the time. (also fun fact: Try playing The Wall whilst playing Chrono Trigger. Its really strange how well it goes together.)

Hot Dog, Billy Joel is bloody awesome!
Also Duran Duran

I haven't even played Chrono Trigger yet, but I'll make a note to do so when I eventually pick it up on the DS.

Originally Posted by Discussion

I'm getting into screamo and I'm not sure why.

Get help while you still can.

Originally Posted by Tonchiki

On a completely unrelated topic, does anyone else find Queen's "Princes of the Universe" to be ridiculously epic? (I know, hated word, but that's really the only word for it.)

I've been a pretty big Queen fanatic since my Sophomore year of high school, and Princes of the Universe is a pretty epic song. All their work relating to Highlander is pretty top notch. The song "Who Wants To Live Forever" is an excellent song as well.

Have you ever heard Queen's "A Prophet Song", it's epic like Princes is, but it's like 9 minutes long.

Originally Posted by Gatsby

Get help while you still can.

stfu.

The bands I listen to are actually good.

I haven't even played Chrono Trigger yet, but I'll make a note to do so when I eventually pick it up on the DS.

It works best with New Game + due to the pacing of the songs with the game. Trial scene with the Trial song is something freaking SCARY! Im really convinced the developers of that game were listening to that record when creating it.

Queen is AMAZING! Not many frontmen were as amazing as Freddy Mercury.

stfu.

The bands I listen to are actually good.

Yeah umm screamo and good cannot be used in the same sentence. If you dont mind crappy bull****, then by all means continue listening to that drivel.

Originally Posted by Florina Belmont

It works best with New Game + due to the pacing of the songs with the game. Trial scene with the Trial song is something freaking SCARY! Im really convinced the developers of that game were listening to that record when creating it.

Queen is AMAZING! Not many frontmen were as amazing as Freddy Mercury.


Yeah umm screamo and good cannot be used in the same sentence. If you dont mind crappy bull****, then by all means continue listening to that drivel.

That interests me quite a bit seeing as how The Trial is the most epic part of The Wall.

And yes, Queen is amazing. Not being able to see the band live with Freddie is a disappointment that I'll never get over.

Originally Posted by Discussion

stfu.

The bands I listen to are actually good.

I've yet to hear a good screamo band, perhaps you can finally show me one. Have any good links?

Oh for the record i would like to present to you this epic peice of music.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eDYIlaaw_yI