Black Sabbath: Metal or Not?

Originally Posted by p0wnn00b

Really? It takes some damn good talent to do stuff like this, not to mention that the lyrics are pretty meaningful too:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GT8n3r2WnkA

or maybe this?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PqNXrkvmk_o

You think any schmuck with a guitar could easily play those songs?
Sorry for the double-post, but I just had too.

All joking aside, I did not enjoy those songs

The Megadeath one had some merit, it just wasn't my cup of tea, so it's nothing against the song. I have a penny or two of respect for Megadeath

The second one was just awful

Originally Posted by dangercheetah

All joking aside, I did not enjoy those songs

The Megadeath one had some merit, it just wasn't my cup of tea, so it's nothing against the song. I have a penny or two of respect for Megadeath

The second one was just awful

You still fail to answer my question: does it, or does it not take a talented musician to do that?

Check out this talent:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sp1fLW-DS8Q

or this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5qCQLyb0-mI

Originally Posted by p0wnn00b

You still fail to answer my question: does it, or does it not take a talented musician to do that?

Stop tossing around the word talent, you clearly have no idea what it means

And no, it doesn't take talent, it takes time and practice. Those riffs are generic and lack any kind of creativity

Death are one of the pioneers of death metal, so I would say their riffs are quite creative. You still haven't answered what is wrong with metal. You just say "nah man it's just awful" like you're really cool, you're just avoiding the question.

Doesn't it take talent to write this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XxizB02d0gE

or this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=utqWrkVEQvI

or this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o6URr...eature=related

or this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VqvJB_60UR4

Of course it does. Since when isn't practicing for hours and hours on end until your playing has perfect precision and studying music until you can write quality material yourself being a musician?

Originally Posted by dangercheetah

Stop tossing around the word talent, you clearly have no idea what it means

And no, it doesn't take talent, it takes time and practice. Those riffs are generic and lack any kind of creativity

The Jason Becker and Steve Vai songs don't use generic riffs, or riffs at all. Listen to the songs again. I can't believe you think all of the bands I've displayed are talentless. Give me an example(s) of what you consider talent, in rock and roll. Classical and Jazz are so different from Rock it's not fair to compare.

I agree with the poster above; talent means you've practiced something for years until you can do amazing things with it. A talented musician is one who can write a coherent song that grabs people's attention, and is skilled at playing an instrument. There is no way in hell any ol' asswipe could play like Marty Friedman, Dave Mustaine (both Megadeth), Chuck Schuldiner (Death), Jason Becker, or Steve Vai. All of those guys have practiced years to get where they are, not to mention they are all respected guitarists, so by the very definition of talent, they are indeed talented.

The definition of talent, according to Dictionary.com. Look it up if you're doubting me.
a capacity for achievement or success
a group of persons with special ability

Originally Posted by Antropomorphia

Death are one of the pioneers of death metal, so I would say their riffs are quite creative. You still haven't answered what is wrong with metal. You just say "nah man it's just awful" like you're really cool, you're just avoiding the question.

"Why don't you like this!"

"It's not creative"

"You're wrong it is creative now answer my question!"

I don't know what else you want me to say. You're clearly too blinded by your own wild defense of metal that nothing I say matters, so why bother? I'm content in knowing that I am right and you are wrong, and I suppose it'll have to remain that way

Originally Posted by Antropomorphia

Doesn't it take talent to write this:
*generic garbage*

No

Originally Posted by p0wnn00b

Give me an example(s) of what you consider talent, in rock and roll. Classical and Jazz are so different from Rock it's not fair to compare.

So, you want me to give you an example of what I consider talent, as long as you get to choose what it is?

Originally Posted by dangercheetah

So, you want me to give you an example of what I consider talent, as long as you get to choose what it is?

First off, you still fail to explain how guitarists that I mentioned are untalented. How are any of them generic? Those guitarists are very different from the majority of Rock music out their today.

And, no, I don't care what you give as an example, I'm just saying you can't compare ****ing Mozart or Bach to Dave Mustaine or Steve Vai because Classical is extremely different from Metal.

Edit: I take it you listen to Classical and consider everything else to be simplified bull****. If that is the case, you are very closed-minded and should branch out. So what if Chuck Schuldiner can't write a song like Mozart? Chuck can still play better than the vast majority of guitarists.

Btw, nothing against Classical Mozart, but not everybody has to be a ****ing insane musical genius to be considered talented.

Originally Posted by dangercheetah

"Why don't you like this!"

"It's not creative"

"You're wrong it is creative now answer my question!"

I don't know what else you want me to say. You're clearly too blinded by your own wild defense of metal that nothing I say matters, so why bother? I'm content in knowing that I am right and you are wrong, and I suppose it'll have to remain that way



No



So, you want me to give you an example of what I consider talent, as long as you get to choose what it is?

Just list something, ANYTHING with more talent, I dare you. Plus that "generic ****" is actually some of metal's more interesting stuff, I have no idea what you listen to, but it has to be some full-blown avant-garde art music if you think all those bands are bland.

If you guys keep feeding me I don't know if I'll be able to eat anymore

Originally Posted by p0wnn00b

First off, you still fail to explain how guitarists that I mentioned are untalented. How are any of them generic? Those guitarists are very different from the majority of Rock music out their today.

And, no, I don't care what you give as an example, I'm just saying you can't compare ****ing Mozart or Bach to Dave Mustaine or Steve Vai because Classical is extremely different from Metal.

I personally think the music shown in this video is more creative and more original than anything I have heard in this thread so far. Say what you want about pop music, it's "pop"ular for a reason, while metal is not and therefore metal is inferior

Originally Posted by Antropomorphia

Just list something, ANYTHING with more talent, I dare you. Plus that "generic ****" is actually some of metal's more interesting stuff, I have no idea what you listen to, but it has to be some full-blown avant-garde art music if you think all those bands are bland.

My poo I just took has more talent than most metal bands

Originally Posted by Antropomorphia

Just list something, ANYTHING with more talent, I dare you.

Originally Posted by dangercheetah

If you guys keep feeding me I don't know if I'll be able to eat anymore



I personally think the music shown in this video is more creative and more original than anything I have heard in this thread so far. Say what you want about pop music, it's "pop"ular for a reason, while metal is not and therefore metal is inferior



My poo I just took has more talent than most metal bands... because bla bla bla *perfectly acceptable opinion* bla bla

Seriously, start explaining what your problem with it is, you're the one that sounds immature. And I sure hope you were joking when you rated music based on its popularity. Are you implying that pop is more creative because it has a bunch of dumb fans? I hope not.

Originally Posted by 8bit

You're a good person with good taste

Originally Posted by Antropomorphia

Seriously, start explaining what your problem with it is, you're the one that sounds immature. And I sure hope you were joking when you rated music based on its popularity. Are you implying that pop is more creative because it has a bunch of dumb fans? I hope not.

I think popularity is the only fair judge for the quality of music. Totally.

Originally Posted by dangercheetah

If you guys keep feeding me I don't know if I'll be able to eat anymore



I personally think the music shown in this video is more creative and more original than anything I have heard in this thread so far. Say what you want about pop music, it's "pop"ular for a reason, while metal is not and therefore metal is inferior



My poo I just took has more talent than most metal bands

Lady Gaga has more talent and originality than Megadeth, Death, Jason Becker or any other band I've mentioned? I'm sorry, but she's cashing in on what's popular today, so I'd have to see she's not original in the very least. And how talented must one be to play synthesizers? How could it be more difficult to sing with an electronic beat in the background than to shred? You fail and I cannot believe I've wasted time with you. I refuse to argue with you any further.

Originally Posted by p0wnn00b

I refuse to argue with you any further.

It wasn't really ever an argument kid

Originally Posted by 8bit

While impressive I have to admit you could still argue that it's bland and generic since those melodies and harmonies have been used extremely often. Plus, that comes from a completely different area than metal. Metal's point isn't to sound elegant. If you're trying to say that just because it sounds "beautiful" it's automatically better and writing it off as an objective opinion you're incorrect since musical tastes are subjective. Now, dangercheetah, give me a reason why metal is so bad without some cute way of avoiding it or a blatant opinion.

Make sure the sentence starts with "Metal is, in my opinion *bla bla bla*" or "*bla bla bla*, in my opinion".

Originally Posted by 8bit

That is very impressive guitar work. Like I said, Metal and Classical are very, very different, and thus unfair to compare. But I hope you could agree that many metal guitarists are highly talented.

Originally Posted by Antropomorphia

While impressive I have to admit you could still argue that it's bland and generic since those melodies and harmonies have been used extremely often. Plus, that comes from a completely different area than metal. Metal's point isn't to sound elegant. If you're trying to say that just because it sounds "beautiful" it's automatically better and writing it off as an objective opinion you're incorrect since musical tastes are subjective. Now, dangercheetah, give me a reason why metal is so bad without some cute way of avoiding it or a blatant opinion.

Make sure the sentence starts with "Metal is, in my opinion *bla bla bla*" or "*bla bla bla*, in my opinion".

You want me to say why I don't like the songs you have posted. I did. You didn't like it and demanded an answer that you wanted, which I can't give since you're wrong

You asked for music that is supposedly better. 8bit<3 provided some that is leagues better

If you want I'll post something similar that is also better

Forgive me, I don't know how to post youtube videos

You claim that the video posted is unfair, because it's not the same. I'm sure you'll say the same to the bluegrass I just gave you

So what? You want me to post some metal? What do you want me to say?

Also, you want me to state an opinion WITHOUT STATING A *BLATANT* OPINION? What planet do you live on?

How about this

Metal is, in my opinion, YOU'RE DELUSIONAL, in my opinion

Originally Posted by dangercheetah

I personally think the music shown in this video is more creative and more original than anything I have heard in this thread so far.

Wow, the music in this thread must really suck then.

Say what you want about pop music, it's "pop"ular for a reason, while metal is not and therefore metal is inferior.

It's popular because it's the same recycled garbaged which is easy to to create, and familiar to the general target audience, a lot of which is metal, and terrible terrible metal it is. Metalica, Megadeath, Slayer, Disturbed, etc...

That's not to say there isn't any good metal- there is, there just isn't nearly as much good metal as there is good material in just about every other genre.

An example of good metal?...

Originally Posted by 8bit

That's not to say there isn't any good metal- there is, there just isn't nearly as much good metal as there is good material in just about every other genre.

Don't worry, I know. I said the same thing earlier in the thread. I even told them that, but they just aren't satisfied

Originally Posted by dangercheetah

You asked for music that is supposedly better. 8bit<3 provided some that is leagues better

Why is it better?

Originally Posted by dangercheetah

You claim that the video posted is unfair, because it's not the same. I'm sure you'll say the same to the bluegrass I just gave you

Metal isn't about beautiful sounding melodies (sometimes it is, you'd be amazed), and the sooner realize death metal especially more dissonant death metal sounds bad and is intentionally bad because the melodies are supposed to sound twisted and dissonant, the sooner this argument can end. Comparing something like I posted to dark classical music or jazz would be fine because metal and classical actually have something in common, and I will gladly admit most metal is inferior to classical, especially stuff like Béla Bartók writes.