Comics Talk

MOD EDIT: This is now a comic discussion thread. Mostly for me and Jeff, but others can join in too . Talk about your favourite books, characters, storylines, whatever. If it's comic-book related, go for it. Marvel. DC. IDW. Dark Horse. Kirby. Loeb. Miller. Anything. Anyone.

Originally posted by nolan
Oh. My God. You haven't read it yet?

Good lord. GOOD. LORD. So good. So so so good.

Yeah, so I hear.

I don't read Hulk, but two issues in and Ultimatum is already shaping up to be better than anything he's done in recent memory that I've read, but that really isn't saying much. Plus, there's plenty of time for it to crash and burn. They should have given that to Bendis, but he's writing pretty much every other book that Marvel puts out, so I guess he's too busy.

Last I checked, Ultimatum's the number one selling series at the moment now that Invasion's up. Of course, that doesn't mean much by itself seeing as how SI topped the charts every time it was released, and Hulk routinely sells in the top 5 a month despite being crap. It's a real testament to the stranglehold that Marvel has on the industry when they sell so damn much even when some of the more popular series are garbage (DC can be included at times for this, too).

Oh, this is supposed to be about the Joker, right?

Dude, we're talking about comics. I bet no one else even realizes this is going on right now.

Originally Posted by Jeff

Last I checked, Ultimatum's the number one selling series at the moment now that Invasion's up. Of course, that doesn't mean much by itself seeing as how SI topped the charts every time it was released, and Hulk routinely sells in the top 5 a month despite being crap. It's a real testament to the stranglehold that Marvel has on the industry when they sell so damn much even when some of the more popular series are garbage (DC can be included at times for this, too).

Ugh, really? It's not that good. Ultimatum better bring new life to the Ultimate Universe, that's all I'm saying. Ultimate Spider-man has been the only one worth reading (well, to be fair I've never read Ultimate Fantastic Four) for like two years. Ultimate X-Men died when Kirkman took over and any signs of life it has shown since is just gas. Ultimates 3 was just a mess of dramatic proportions.

Isn't the Hulk red now? I dunno, I caught myself up on what happened with World War Hulk, but I have no idea what is going on with that guy other than that.

Secret Invasion was all flash no substance, though what has come out of it is pretty interesting, I guess. That seems to be the trend, the actual 'events' are baloney, but the fallout is usually better.

It is depressing that trash can make it to the top spots so easily, but the big two will probably never give up those spots, just because (and I'm just as guilty of this as the next person) people will keep buying crap if they bought it when it used to be good. I wish I could stop buying the stuff that has fallen so far, but I just hold out hope that it'll recover. Also curiosity is what fuels "events," so they'll always sell, even if they shouldn't. Ah well.

Dude, we're talking about comics. I bet no one else even realizes this is going on right now.

Good point. They probably scroll right by .

Originally posted nolan
Ugh, really? It's not that good. Ultimatum better bring new life to the Ultimate Universe, that's all I'm saying. Ultimate Spider-man has been the only one worth reading (well, to be fair I've never read Ultimate Fantastic Four) for like two years. Ultimate X-Men died when Kirkman took over and any signs of life it has shown since is just gas. Ultimates 3 was just a mess of dramatic proportions.

It doesn't get the attention or sales it deserves, but the Cosmic Universe is hands down one of the best things in comics today. Marvel did a great job at revitalizing what was essentially a dead pocket of their world and churn out a bunch of solid series; Annihilation, Nova, Guardians of the Galaxy etc. That's stuff I should I be paying more attention to.

Isn't the Hulk red now? I dunno, I caught myself up on what happened with World War Hulk, but I have no idea what is going on with that guy other than that.

Red Hulk is some different guy named "Rulk" currently, he's not the same Green Hulk. I haven't read enough of the series to know completely what's going on, but it's something I don't think they've even explained yet. That being, where this Red Hulk came from and who he is. Basically it's been an excuse just to have all kinds of mindless action with no real storytelling. Pretty much what Marvel has done with Hulk over the last few years.

Secret Invasion was all flash no substance, though what has come out of it is pretty interesting, I guess. That seems to be the trend, the actual 'events' are baloney, but the fallout is usually better.

I don't mind events within a single character's volume (I'm amped for Blackest Night) but I've never really been intrigued by a Crisis, or Secret Invasion and so on.

But from what I know of SI's aftermath, it's just stupid, and a lot of fans are rightfully *****ing and moaning about the way some of the characters are treated. Norman Osbourn and Doctor Doom are especially getting attention.

It is depressing that trash can make it to the top spots so easily, but the big two will probably never give up those spots, just because (and I'm just as guilty of this as the next person) people will keep buying crap if they bought it when it used to be good. I wish I could stop buying the stuff that has fallen so far, but I just hold out hope that it'll recover. Also curiosity is what fuels "events," so they'll always sell, even if they shouldn't. Ah well.

Well, if there's any hope, it's that single issue sales continue to drop every year, while trade sales go up every year. Even better, smaller publishers like Darkhorse, Image and IDW do a lot better in trade sales profit compared to their single issue stuff when stacked against Marvel and DC. Maybe in time the balance of power will spread a bit due to the dying interest in individual issues.

That's probably not good of me to say when I'm dying to be a comic writer one day...

EDIT-

Maybe we should get a new thread for this? Even a Group?

Originally Posted by Jeff

It doesn't get the attention or sales it deserves, but the Cosmic Universe is hands down one of the best things in comics today. Marvel did a great job at revitalizing what was essentially a dead pocket of their world and churn out a bunch of solid series; Annihilation, Nova, Guardians of the Galaxy etc. That's stuff I should I be paying more attention to.

Clearly doesn't get any attention, because I certainly don't read any of those. I see them when I check Marvel's catalog to see what's coming out each month, but never pay attention to those ones, just skim right by them. Maybe I should try paying attention to them.

Red Hulk is some different guy named "Rulk" currently, he's not the same Green Hulk. I haven't read enough of the series to know completely what's going on, but it's something I don't think they've even explained yet. That being, where this Red Hulk came from and who he is. Basically it's been an excuse just to have all kinds of mindless action with no real storytelling. Pretty much what Marvel has done with Hulk over the last few years.

Because they don't have enough gamma-radiated characters already? I mean, damn, Doc Samson is RIGHT THERE. Use him (He says, as Samson shows up in the latest Thunderbolts issue). Though I'm missing context, having not read the books.

I don't mind events within a single character's volume (I'm amped for Blackest Night) but I've never really been intrigued by a Crisis, or Secret Invasion and so on.

I need to start reading Green Lantern books. I hear such good things about them. But with DC I never know where to start because I don't keep up with it at all.

In any case, events would be better if there weren't so damn many of them. I mean, they even have different degrees of events. You have Universe Corssovers like Secret Invasion, then you have mini-crossovers like Messiah Complex in the X-Books, then you have the individual events. It's just silly. It's often the books that get little to no crossover action that end up being the best. See: X-Factor (which has totally blown my mind with the last issue).

But from what I know of SI's aftermath, it's just stupid, and a lot of fans are rightfully *****ing and moaning about the way some of the characters are treated. Norman Osbourn and Doctor Doom are especially getting attention.

In my experience, people have been ***** about Doom for ages. Though being involved with Morgan Le Fay is kinda given me a weird twist in the mind. Magic and time travel? What now?

As for Osborne, yeah it makes no sense, but crazy things happen when the world is threatened. Hell, 9/11 happened and Bush got four more years in office. In any case, I don't mind so much that he got to where he is, because it means that maybe they'll fix Iron Man now. And they got to revamp the Mighty Avengers, which was so damn boring.

Basically, for me it isn't so much the event itself, but what is coming out of it that interests me. And what is coming out of this one seems to be pretty interesting. Osborne is seemingly keeping with his character, even if people aren't treating him like he is. That's my perception.

Well, if there's any hope, it's that single issue sales continue to drop every year, while trade sales go up every year. Even better, smaller publishers like Darkhorse, Image and IDW do a lot better in trade sales profit compared to their single issue stuff when stacked against Marvel and DC. Maybe in time the balance of power will spread a bit due to the dying interest in individual issues.

That's probably not good of me to say when I'm dying to be a comic writer one day...

I know that it's just more economical to wait for trades. They are more hardy and it's overall just cheaper to buy them collected than it is to buy each issue, I think. If I wasn't such a junkie I'd probably go that route, though I used to just donate my single issues to a library and then buy the trades if I knew it was something I'd reread. But world being what it is, that isn't really in the cards anymore.

Dark Horse and IDW are also getting a lot of TV and Movie licenses. Didn't IDW get the rights to publish Ghostbuster books?

EDIT-

Maybe we should get a new thread for this? Even a Group?

I'm gonna make a thread in misc. entertainment and then merge some of these posts into it. Group is probably a good idea too, because groups can't die, while threads can.

I can't say I read comics. However my aunt gave me a tacky NASCAR comic book starring Tony Stewart as the main character. She also gave me Spider Man one.

Originally posted by nolan
I need to start reading Green Lantern books. I hear such good things about them. But with DC I never know where to start because I don't keep up with it at all.

I started only with Rebirth, and for the most part I know what's going on. GL's currently my favorite on-going Superhero comic.

In any case, events would be better if there weren't so damn many of them. I mean, they even have different degrees of events. You have Universe Corssovers like Secret Invasion, then you have mini-crossovers like Messiah Complex in the X-Books, then you have the individual events. It's just silly. It's often the books that get little to no crossover action that end up being the best. See: X-Factor (which has totally blown my mind with the last issue).

Yeah, because crossovers are usually just a way to boost sales, and they're pretty restrictive on the writers. Not only that, but I'm sure it's way easier to manage a story of a few big time characters than trying to do some epic with the entie superhero universe of each company.

Hell, 9/11 happened and Bush got four more years in office.

Hey now, he can't be blamed for that.

In any case, I don't mind so much that he got to where he is, because it means that maybe they'll fix Iron Man now. And they got to revamp the Mighty Avengers, which was so damn boring.

I heard that as well. My problem with Osborne though is that everyone is letting him push them around. I mean, he's got a pretty little suit and all; but why is someone like Doom just sitting there doing nothing about it?

I know that it's just more economical to wait for trades. They are more hardy and it's overall just cheaper to buy them collected than it is to buy each issue, I think. If I wasn't such a junkie I'd probably go that route, though I used to just donate my single issues to a library and then buy the trades if I knew it was something I'd reread. But world being what it is, that isn't really in the cards anymore.

So far, I've bought one single issue, that being Emperor Vulcan #1 when I was a comics n00b. Since then I've purchased only trades, it's just a lot more convenient for me and I prefer having books as opposed to hundreds of tiny periodicals.

The only thing I'm really considering buying single issues of is the third Samurai: Heaven and Earth arc, because the after finishing the second volume I'm dying to know what happens next, and it might be a long while before that trade comes out.

Dark Horse and IDW are also getting a lot of TV and Movie licenses. Didn't IDW get the rights to publish Ghostbuster books?

I don't know about Ghostbusters, but I do know they picked up G.I. Joe from Devil's Due, which was a huge gain for them and a huge loss for DD.

The best part of this is that, generally, smaller guys like Darkhorse, IDW and Devil's Due actually do a good job with their licensed properties. Meanwhile, DC and Marvel flop with everything other than the alternate Gunslinger series. Please note I don't mean adaptations, like Marvel's Magician:Apprentice, stuff, but you know something like DH's Star Wars or Buffy etc.

Originally Posted by Jeff

I started only with Rebirth, and for the most part I know what's going on. GL's currently my favorite on-going Superhero comic.

I'll try starting from there, then, and see what happens. I've just heard that it's so amazing that not looking into it seems like the dumb idea.

Yeah, because crossovers are usually just a way to boost sales, and they're pretty restrictive on the writers. Not only that, but I'm sure it's way easier to manage a story of a few big time characters than trying to do some epic with the entie superhero universe of each company.

Haha, did you ever read Marvel vs. DC? I read it when I was a kid and thought it was amazing, but I reread it like two years ago and I almost vomited with agony over how bad it was. I think that's something with a lot of events, they sound good on paper, but executing them is much trickier.

Hey now, he can't be blamed for that.

I'm just saying, big events happen and people are willing grasp at the people who define the moments. By all accounts Charles Linburgh was a complete douche, but the guy flies across an ocean and becomes a generational hero.

I heard that as well. My problem with Osborne though is that everyone is letting him push them around. I mean, he's got a pretty little suit and all; but why is someone like Doom just sitting there doing nothing about it?

I dunno, I guess he sees something in it for him? I don't know how much you know about what has happened since he took over, but I think it's pretty clear that Osborne can maintain control while not keeping everyone on a leash, especially a guy like Doom.

So far, I've bought one single issue, that being Emperor Vulcan #1 when I was a comics n00b. Since then I've purchased only trades, it's just a lot more convenient for me and I prefer having books as opposed to hundreds of tiny periodicals.

I've had to switch methods into something where I look at the trades set to come out each month and set aside money. Sometimes I can't afford all of the ones I want, but it helps. Then I just go to a bookstore and read all the single issues there in a corner without buying them because I am sneaky like that, but they don't usually get everything I want either.

I don't know about Ghostbusters, but I do know they picked up G.I. Joe from Devil's Due, which was a huge gain for them and a huge loss for DD.

The best part of this is that, generally, smaller guys like Darkhorse, IDW and Devil's Due actually do a good job with their licensed properties. Meanwhile, DC and Marvel flop with everything other than the alternate Gunslinger series. Please note I don't mean adaptations, like Marvel's Magician:Apprentice, stuff, but you know something like DH's Star Wars or Buffy etc.

It's true, generally because I think the editors spend a lot more time with their writers, because there's less of them, in smaller companies. Though I could be way off. But I know Scott Allie works really closely with Joss Whedon and the writer's he works with on the Buffy books, and likewise with Chris Ryall at IDW, whom all the writer's over there speak very highly of.

Speak of adaptations, I think the second issue of Ender's Shadow comes out today...I'm heading down to the bookstore to sneakily read comics after I'm done classes for the day, so I'll need to check that before I go.

Originally posted by nolan
I'll try starting from there, then, and see what happens. I've just heard that it's so amazing that not looking into it seems like the dumb idea.

The cool part is that his series is exciting even when it's not into events like Rebirth, the Sinestro Corps War or Blackest Night. One of the arcs in between those is equally as good as the big happenings.

Haha, did you ever read Marvel vs. DC? I read it when I was a kid and thought it was amazing, but I reread it like two years ago and I almost vomited with agony over how bad it was. I think that's something with a lot of events, they sound good on paper, but executing them is much trickier.

I think some of it may be due to page limits. A lot of these huge events only last anywhere from 7-8 issues, and when most of the issues are around 22 pages long you're more than likely cramming stuff in without fleshing enough out. I understand that kind of series length for an individual volume with like Spidey, Superman or Batman, but when you're including the entire Marvel or DC universe I say you need a few more issues to properly cover everything.

I've had to switch methods into something where I look at the trades set to come out each month and set aside money. Sometimes I can't afford all of the ones I want, but it helps. Then I just go to a bookstore and read all the single issues there in a corner without buying them because I am sneaky like that, but they don't usually get everything I want either.

Haha, I've thought about doing that, but I have more to gain from owning the trades full time as opposed to most fans. I routinely look back at them to study how things are laid out, from how long an action sequences goes on for, how many panels are on a page, how much dialogue is put in a box etc.

It's true, generally because I think the editors spend a lot more time with their writers, because there's less of them, in smaller companies. Though I could be way off. But I know Scott Allie works really closely with Joss Whedon and the writer's he works with on the Buffy books, and likewise with Chris Ryall at IDW, whom all the writer's over there speak very highly of.

I would actually believe that. I've always gotten the impression that publishers like Darkhorse, IDW and even Image are more personal with their writers, just from looking over their Submission policies. They also let of their single issues run for longer than 22 pages of storytelling, which is what almost every DC and Marvel comic is.

Speak of adaptations, I think the second issue of Ender's Shadow comes out today...I'm heading down to the bookstore to sneakily read comics after I'm done classes for the day, so I'll need to check that before I go.

Ah yes, it's Wednesday, the day of comic releases.

Soon as I get home from school tomorrow morning I'll hop on IGN and check out their weekly reviews.

Originally Posted by Jeff

The cool part is that his series is exciting even when it's not into events like Rebirth, the Sinestro Corps War or Blackest Night. One of the arcs in between those is equally as good as the big happenings.

When I go home, to the place that has halfway decent comic shop, I'll see if I can wrangle a few trades out of them, for sure.

I think some of it may be due to page limits. A lot of these huge events only last anywhere from 7-8 issues, and when most of the issues are around 22 pages long you're more than likely cramming stuff in without fleshing enough out. I understand that kind of series length for an individual volume with like Spidey, Superman or Batman, but when you're including the entire Marvel or DC universe I say you need a few more issues to properly cover everything.

True enough. It doesn't help when you have such a sporadic release schedule either, which can also plague regular issues depending on the writer and artist. Delays kill comics. And that' coming from a person who's favourite writers have been routinely late.

Haha, I've thought about doing that, but I have more to gain from owning the trades full time as opposed to most fans. I routinely look back at them to study how things are laid out, from how long an action sequences goes on for, how many panels are on a page, how much dialogue is put in a box etc.

Yeah, as a source of reference material, they are useful in that sense for you. I've actually done two history assignments based entirely on comic books, some of which I had to turn to the internet to in order to get my hands on really old books, and they are way more fascinating at a historical source than most people probably give them credit for.

I would actually believe that. I've always gotten the impression that publishers like Darkhorse, IDW and even Image are more personal with their writers, just from looking over their Submission policies. They also let of their single issues run for longer than 22 pages of storytelling, which is what almost every DC and Marvel comic is.

I've seen a few marvel issues go into the mid 20s, like 24 or 26, and even some 'special' issues go into the 30s, but yeah that 22 limit is killer, especially when some writers clearly don't know how to work around them for good storytelling, so they just end up making everything seem disjointed.

Ah yes, it's Wednesday, the day of comic releases.

Soon as I get home from school tomorrow morning I'll hop on IGN and check out their weekly reviews.

I actually rarely read reviews, unless it's an issue I found particularly good and I feel like seeing what others thought. I didn't really know that IGN's coverage was that thorough, I always would go to comicbookresources or newsarama.

Originally posted by nolan
When I go home, to the place that has halfway decent comic shop, I'll see if I can wrangle a few trades out of them, for sure.

Like I said, make sure to read Rebirth since, it's a good jumping-on point and the series makes references to it a lot. Hal's past and the whole thing of him going evil is brought up all the time.

True enough. It doesn't help when you have such a sporadic release schedule either, which can also plague regular issues depending on the writer and artist. Delays kill comics. And that' coming from a person who's favourite writers have been routinely late.

*Final Crisis*

Definitely, delays ruin a mini-series' pace, especially if it's a monthly thing.

Yeah, as a source of reference material, they are useful in that sense for you. I've actually done two history assignments based entirely on comic books, some of which I had to turn to the internet to in order to get my hands on really old books, and they are way more fascinating at a historical source than most people probably give them credit for.

They really do, they're a great showing of what the cultures were like and what kind of entertainment society was enjoying at different decades across the century. They're a lot more distinct than people would think; I mean you look at a comic from today and compare it to something out of the mid 90s and you can find a lot of differences in style, tone, dialogue etc.

I've seen a few marvel issues go into the mid 20s, like 24 or 26, and even some 'special' issues go into the 30s, but yeah that 22 limit is killer, especially when some writers clearly don't know how to work around them for good storytelling, so they just end up making everything seem disjointed.

*is very, very worried about that with a couple of his ideas...*

But I may be getting worked up over nothing, I don't plan to submit another pitch for some time. I gotta spend a couple years preparing my writing.

I actually rarely read reviews, unless it's an issue I found particularly good and I feel like seeing what others thought. I didn't really know that IGN's coverage was that thorough, I always would go to comicbookresources or newsarama.

Their comic section is actually quite in-depth, equally as much as their video game areas are. They do all kinds of previews, interviews, weekly galleries, rankings, monthly listings, and then the reviews. I check it just about every day to see what they've put up.

Of course, they're very Marvel and DC heavy. They hit on Darkhorse and Image in small portions, but other than that there's very little coverage of Indy publishers.

Originally Posted by Jeff

*Final Crisis*

Definitely, delays ruin a mini-series' pace, especially if it's a monthly thing.

Didn't DC have a weekly series that they didn't miss a single deadline? But I assume they had different artists and writers working on every issue.

They really do, they're a great showing of what the cultures were like and what kind of entertainment society was enjoying at different decades across the century. They're a lot more distinct than people would think; I mean you look at a comic from today and compare it to something out of the mid 90s and you can find a lot of differences in style, tone, dialogue etc.

I've never had more fun writing and researching a paper as I did when I wrote one about Canadian comic book heroes and the formation of a national identity. If I were to ever have to write a thesis (which isn't likely at this point) it would definitely be on comics. It's actually becoming a more written about field these days. There's a book that came out a few years ago called "Comic Book Nation" that is quite good, from what I've read of it.

*is very, very worried about that with a couple of his ideas...*

But I may be getting worked up over nothing, I don't plan to submit another pitch for some time. I gotta spend a couple years preparing my writing.

You just have to work and rework until it all comes together. This one writer who I follow pretty closely actually put out an original comic this year in five issues, and he first pitched it to a movie studio ten years ago as a movie. He reworked it into a television miniseries, short story, pretty much everything under the sun, and finally got it made as a comic.

It's all about working the idea to fit the medium. And it's probably easier to work your own idea than work an adaptation. It's probably not easy, but it's very likely doable.

Their comic section is actually quite in-depth, equally as much as their video game areas are. They do all kinds of previews, interviews, weekly galleries, rankings, monthly listings, and then the reviews. I check it just about every day to see what they've put up.

Of course, they're very Marvel and DC heavy. They hit on Darkhorse and Image in small portions, but other than that there's very little coverage of Indy publishers.

Yeah, I've looked at IGN for previews and interviews before, but I find that CBR and newsarama, since they are geared specifically for comics, are a little more broad in terms of content and just...know how to do a proper comic artist or writer interview and ask more in-depth questions.

Though at times I have to say that I like more mainstream coverage because they are more accessible, especially when I'm reading about something that I'm not really familiar with. Which was way more the case a few years ago when I first getting back into comics and the last time I had seen any of the characters I was reading about a decade before. Things had changed.

Didn't DC have a weekly series that they didn't miss a single deadline? But I assume they had different artists and writers working on every issue.

Actually, they're up to 3 now

Right after Infinite Crisis came 52, then they had Countdown to Final Crisis for another 52 issues, and currently they're working their way through Trinity without any delays.

I've never had more fun writing and researching a paper as I did when I wrote one about Canadian comic book heroes and the formation of a national identity. If I were to ever have to write a thesis (which isn't likely at this point) it would definitely be on comics. It's actually becoming a more written about field these days. There's a book that came out a few years ago called "Comic Book Nation" that is quite good, from what I've read of it.

Even though issue sales are dropping, the actual medium is gaining steam in the public eye. It's been gradually losing the "nerd" image that it had for so long, especially since it's branched into so many different genres; fantasy, western, historical, crime, mystery, sci-fi etc. It seems like society is viewing it more and more as a legit source of entertainment.

And there's no doubt that the wave of comic-based movies is doing the industry some good. I mean, there's a reason why the 300 Hardcover was pushing 8,000+ copies a month back in 07, despite having been released almost ten years ago. Or, you could look at Watchmen and see that the trade is regularly selling 12,000+ copies a month.

You just have to work and rework until it all comes together. This one writer who I follow pretty closely actually put out an original comic this year in five issues, and he first pitched it to a movie studio ten years ago as a movie. He reworked it into a television miniseries, short story, pretty much everything under the sun, and finally got it made as a comic.

It's all about working the idea to fit the medium. And it's probably easier to work your own idea than work an adaptation. It's probably not easy, but it's very likely doable.

Very true, and I'd say the most important thing is realizing what kind of imagery/storytelling works with comics and what doesn't. Obviously, you can't cover every single frame done in, say, a Lord of the Rings fight, otherwise you'd have an entire 22 pages of pure action. You just have to figure out how to balance everything out.

Yeah, I've looked at IGN for previews and interviews before, but I find that CBR and newsarama, since they are geared specifically for comics, are a little more broad in terms of content and just...know how to do a proper comic artist or writer interview and ask more in-depth questions

Well, yeah, and that's why they'll do a lot more coverage on the Indy publishers. IGN Comics is a better source for the casual comic fan.

Originally Posted by Jeff

Actually, they're up to 3 now

Right after Infinite Crisis came 52, then they had Countdown to Final Crisis for another 52 issues, and currently they're working their way through Trinity without any delays.

Gotta give them props for that, it is supremely impressive to keep that kind of schedule.

Even though issue sales are dropping, the actual medium is gaining steam in the public eye. It's been gradually losing the "nerd" image that it had for so long, especially since it's branched into so many different genres; fantasy, western, historical, crime, mystery, sci-fi etc. It seems like society is viewing it more and more as a legit source of entertainment.

And there's no doubt that the wave of comic-based movies is doing the industry some good. I mean, there's a reason why the 300 Hardcover was pushing 8,000+ copies a month back in 07, despite having been released almost ten years ago. Or, you could look at Watchmen and see that the trade is regularly selling 12,000+ copies a month.

Exactly. It's all about the geek chic these days. I mean, wasn't so long ago that San Diego Comicon was this dinky little convention that was an excuse for people to dress up. Now you have almost any movie that has anything to do with anything sci-fi or fantasy getting a panel there and it sells out a year in advance of actually happening.

I think the Superhero movie thing is probably the biggest reason, but it's also stuff like Heroes getting so popular and Battlestar Galactica
getting so many rave reviews in mainstream media and that sort of thing as well. The whole geek scene has exploded.

Very true, and I'd say the most important thing is realizing what kind of imagery/storytelling works with comics and what doesn't. Obviously, you can't cover every single frame done in, say, a Lord of the Rings fight, otherwise you'd have an entire 22 pages of pure action. You just have to figure out how to balance everything out.

Very true, and as cool as some action gets in comics, it gets super boring when you have more than like, one or two full-pages of action. You can spend quite awhile looking at them and they can be pretty, but they don't do much for story or character.

Also, note to self: Read Y: The Last Man

Originally posted by nolan
Gotta give them props for that, it is supremely impressive to keep that kind of schedule.

Well, there's a lot of incentive for them to when so much money is involved. Most of the issues for those series were selling 40,000+ a week, and when you've got 52 weeks to put out for...

Exactly. It's all about the geek chic these days. I mean, wasn't so long ago that San Diego Comicon was this dinky little convention that was an excuse for people to dress up. Now you have almost any movie that has anything to do with anything sci-fi or fantasy getting a panel there and it sells out a year in advance of actually happening.

And video games are coming there now. Hell, I think it was Capcom and Sega that even showed up at the NY Comic Con and got huge responses for their demo kiosks.

Really, it's not exaggerating to say that comics have transcended the original media.

I think the Superhero movie thing is probably the biggest reason, but it's also stuff like Heroes getting so popular and Battlestar Galactica
getting so many rave reviews in mainstream media and that sort of thing as well. The whole geek scene has exploded.

Heroes I'm sure did a lot for putting superheroes in a much more serious and 'cool' light. No outer space stuff, no flashy costumes, not really any ridiculous personas, just a bunch of normal people using their abilities.

I should probably watch that someday and see if I actually like it.

Very true, and as cool as some action gets in comics, it gets super boring when you have more than like, one or two full-pages of action. You can spend quite awhile looking at them and they can be pretty, but they don't do much for story or character.

What you need is to add dialogue here and there, just to break up the action and add some kind of emotion to the sequence. Even though it's a visual media, at the end of the day you're still reading it, and there's no motion involved, so need real storytelling included. You also need variety in whats going on. The same exact slash of a sword or punch done four times in a fight will look fine in a movie, but in a comic it'll be just boring. You can't repeat actions too much.


By the way, I managed to grab Batman: Hush Vol. 1 and 2 at my local Borders this weekend. I was disappointed though because I went on my way to work so I had about fifteen minutes to look around. It's only two shelves of trades, but they have a pretty nice selection and I could've been there for an hour just skimming through stuff.

My friend also let me borrow his Watchmen trade, which I had intended to buy previously. Ever read it? And if so, is it as godly awesome as everyone says it is?

Originally Posted by Jeff

Well, there's a lot of incentive for them to when so much money is involved. Most of the issues for those series were selling 40,000+ a week, and when you've got 52 weeks to put out for...

*whistles* That is a pretty penny or to, to say the least. I guess when that's the expectation they can't slack and expect to keep those numbers up. It's not like, say, Astonishing X-Men which ships huge numbers but nobody expects to see it even once every two months.

Heroes I'm sure did a lot for putting superheroes in a much more serious and 'cool' light. No outer space stuff, no flashy costumes, not really any ridiculous personas, just a bunch of normal people using their abilities.

I should probably watch that someday and see if I actually like it.

Heroes to me is wasted potential. There's so much room for improvement, even in the first season, it's ridiculous. It has had moments of realizing it, but for the most part... Arg, I really shouldn't get started on this.

I haven't checked out BStarG myself, but everywhere I look it seems to get such great buzz, so it's been on my 'to do' list of like two years.

What you need is to add dialogue here and there, just to break up the action and add some kind of emotion to the sequence. Even though it's a visual media, at the end of the day you're still reading it, and there's no motion involved, so need real storytelling included. You also need variety in whats going on. The same exact slash of a sword or punch done four times in a fight will look fine in a movie, but in a comic it'll be just boring. You can't repeat actions too much.

Which is probably why Spider-Man was and is such a huge title. His in-fight dialog is what makes him. Which is something the movies were ever really able to translate.

By the way, I managed to grab Batman: Hush Vol. 1 and 2 at my local Borders this weekend. I was disappointed though because I went on my way to work so I had about fifteen minutes to look around. It's only two shelves of trades, but they have a pretty nice selection and I could've been there for an hour just skimming through stuff.

My friend also let me borrow his Watchmen trade, which I had intended to buy previously. Ever read it? And if so, is it as godly awesome as everyone says it is?

Yeah, I can spend a lot of time in the small sections the big bookstore chains have looking at the trades. But when I go to this place in the city I grew up in, Silver Snail. Good lord. I could spend a day in there.

Watchmen is a really really good book. I think that the biggest problem you might run into is overhype and maybe unfulfilled expectations. There's really nothing out there quite like it, so it may not be what you are expecting. But it is a phenomenal book. I read it a few years ago, before the movie was even announced, and loved the hell out of it. It's just really in a league of its own in so many ways.

Oh, and I ordered Rebirth cause I found a second vendor selling it for dirt cheap through Amazon. It came today so I will probably start it tonight. I'll let you know what I think.

Originally posted by nolan
*whistles* That is a pretty penny or to, to say the least. I guess when that's the expectation they can't slack and expect to keep those numbers up. It's not like, say, Astonishing X-Men which ships huge numbers but nobody expects to see it even once every two months.

Yeah, for a series that's as profitable and as popular as it is, X-Men has seen absolutely wierd release paces. It's almost shocking that Thor is the longest running series from Marvel, rather than the group of heroes that arguably have made their company.

But that's not to knock Thor. Thor is awesome.

Which is probably why Spider-Man was and is such a huge title. His in-fight dialog is what makes him. Which is something the movies were ever really able to translate.

Actually, that's something that comics can definitely say they have over films. If there's in-fight dialogue during a fight scene, it'll largely go unnoticed or something with the sequence will go overlooked. On the other hand, a comic is always still and you can read it at your own pace, so whatever is on there will always be paid attention to as much as the other content.

Yeah, I can spend a lot of time in the small sections the big bookstore chains have looking at the trades. But when I go to this place in the city I grew up in, Silver Snail. Good lord. I could spend a day in there.

You know, I'm really not too far from Toronto...

Sounds like I have a place to visit next time I cross the border.

Watchmen is a really really good book. I think that the biggest problem you might run into is overhype and maybe unfulfilled expectations. There's really nothing out there quite like it, so it may not be what you are expecting. But it is a phenomenal book. I read it a few years ago, before the movie was even announced, and loved the hell out of it. It's just really in a league of its own in so many ways.

I've been trying to devote some time to actual novel reading over the last few days, so I'm gonna start Watchmen tonight. Looking forward to it.

Oh, and I ordered Rebirth cause I found a second vendor selling it for dirt cheap through Amazon. It came today so I will probably start it tonight. I'll let you know what I think.

Enjoy, and if it turns out that you find Sciver's art too dark, know that as the series continues other artists with more suitable styles for GL start to take over. That's really the only 'criticism' I could think of for Rebirth, that the art was a tad too gritty.

Originally Posted by Jeff

Yeah, for a series that's as profitable and as popular as it is, X-Men has seen absolutely wierd release paces. It's almost shocking that Thor is the longest running series from Marvel, rather than the group of heroes that arguably have made their company.

But that's not to knock Thor. Thor is awesome.

Despite the fact that I don't read the Thor books, every time he shows up in any of the other books I always marvel at how badass he is. Seriously, dude is rad.

The X-Books may not have the longevity of Thor, but there's so damn many of them. I mean, Wolverine has like four series dedicated to him alone. Good lord. Of course, I read most of the X-Books, so I'm not really complaining.

You know, I'm really not too far from Toronto...

Sounds like I have a place to visit next time I cross the border.

Definitely. Place is crazy-awesome. I have to avoid it when I'm low on money so that I don't go crazy and start buying everything in sight.

Enjoy, and if it turns out that you find Sciver's art too dark, know that as the series continues other artists with more suitable styles for GL start to take over. That's really the only 'criticism' I could think of for Rebirth, that the art was a tad too gritty.

I don't know jack all about art, so basically I can only really say I like or dislike art, but not really say why. I notice the differences, obviously. I know Ramos from Romita Jr. from Clairemont and all that, but I don't really dislike a style for being too dark. Really, the only art that I've actually not been able to stand is Larry Stroman's. He had a few issues on X-Factor and it actually made reading them difficult. Just terrible art.

That said, I read the series and really enjoyed it. I was able to pick up what was going on and who everyone was and the who general idea of the Lanterns with minimal consultation of wikipedia, which is a definite plus since I tend to spoil myself when I do that. It definitely is a great starting-off point, since its a sort of rebirth of Hal Jordan and Corps in general, it seems. I just don't know where to go from here in terms of continuity.

It is comic book day! Though nothing really great coming out for me today other than the newest Ender's Game issue and the new Buffy Season 8 issue. I might check out the new Secret Warriors title, because hey, Nick Fury. Might try to sneak a read of the new Cable issue, but so far it hasn't wowed me to the point where I feel comfortable paying for the trades. Then some random single-issue stuff that I may or may not take the time to read.

Originally posted by nolan
Despite the fact that I don't read the Thor books, every time he shows up in any of the other books I always marvel at how badass he is. Seriously, dude is rad.

Which is partly why I'm ashamed that I haven't really followed his reboot series at all. The only thing I've seen is his ownage of Iron Man, which was, admittedly, pretty cool. Even if it was just another example of how Marvel has handled Stark so poorly over the last couple years.

The X-Books may not have the longevity of Thor, but there's so damn many of them. I mean, Wolverine has like four series dedicated to him alone. Good lord. Of course, I read most of the X-Books, so I'm not really complaining.

Haha, on a regular basis I hear about X-series that I didn't know existed previously.

Definitely. Place is crazy-awesome. I have to avoid it when I'm low on money so that I don't go crazy and start buying everything in sight.

What's the layout like? Is it one of those legendary two-story bookstores that I've always wanted to go into?

I don't know jack all about art, so basically I can only really say I like or dislike art, but not really say why. I notice the differences, obviously. I know Ramos from Romita Jr. from Clairemont and all that, but I don't really dislike a style for being too dark. Really, the only art that I've actually not been able to stand is Larry Stroman's. He had a few issues on X-Factor and it actually made reading them difficult. Just terrible art.

If Stroman is who I'm thinking of, then I believe I've seen some of his art in X-men oneshots and a couple Black Panther issues. Yuck.

That said, I read the series and really enjoyed it. I was able to pick up what was going on and who everyone was and the who general idea of the Lanterns with minimal consultation of wikipedia, which is a definite plus since I tend to spoil myself when I do that. It definitely is a great starting-off point, since its a sort of rebirth of Hal Jordan and Corps in general, it seems. I just don't know where to go from here in terms of continuity.

To be honest, I haven't even touched Corps, yet. I've heard good things about it and I like all the other Lanterns (Kyle, John, Guy and Kilowog) but I don't think it's completely necessary to be familiar with until Sinestro Corps War, and even then it's iffy.

Originally Posted by Jeff

Which is partly why I'm ashamed that I haven't really followed his reboot series at all. The only thing I've seen is his ownage of Iron Man, which was, admittedly, pretty cool. Even if it was just another example of how Marvel has handled Stark so poorly over the last couple years.

I'm half-surprised they haven't put Stark back on the bottle, really. More than enough random crap has been going with him that it wouldn't be out of place.

But on the other hand, it does open him up to being raged at by people, and I love conflict between protagonists. Pym freaking at him recently in...I think it was in Mighty Avengers? Was awesome.

Haha, on a regular basis I hear about X-series that I didn't know existed previously.

I read....five on-going X-books, I think. Not to mention all the miniseries and such they have going on all the time. And that's still not all of them.

It's almost a little disgusting.

What's the layout like? Is it one of those legendary two-story bookstores that I've always wanted to go into?

Mmmm, not quite two-stories.
You walk in the front, if you have any bags or stuff they ask you to leave them behind the counter. The front is basically where they keep action figures and some other collectibles, along with the cash, and some of the new releases.

Then there's like two or three stairs that lead to the back area, which goes around in a circle around a giant two-sided shelf filled with trades, back issues, and graphic novels that would probably take six years to go through one-by-one. It has drawers that you can pull out along with shelves. Then along the outside walls they have some more fancy/expensive collectibles, and a couple more shelves for books.

It is intense.

If Stroman is who I'm thinking of, then I believe I've seen some of his art in X-men oneshots and a couple Black Panther issues. Yuck.

Could be. His art just looks bad. It's hard to follow, the characters don't look anything like they normally do, he blows for continuity from panel to panel (I'm pretty sure Madrox's 'M' tat vanished like ten times in one issue), and everything looks like it is melting. Garbage. I don't know who likes his art, but they should get their eyes checked. Or be shot. I dunno.

To be honest, I haven't even touched Corps, yet. I've heard good things about it and I like all the other Lanterns (Kyle, John, Guy and Kilowog) but I don't think it's completely necessary to be familiar with until Sinestro Corps War, and even then it's iffy.

I guess I just gotta start with the regular Green Lantern title that I assume came out of it? Can't see where else it would go.

I also picked up a bunch of Y: The Last Man over the past two weeks or so. Good god, is it incredible. The first issue actually kept me awake at night after I read it.

Today I have two books I am definitely looking at. New Warriors is finishing, even though I don't think it was supposed to end with this issue, as far as I know. I am curious as to what will happen to some of the characters, especially Jubilee and Chamber and Beak. I'm pretty sure that I read Peter David wanted to snatch up Jubilee for X-Factor, but I don't know if that will happen.

That, and the final issue of Angel: After the Fall is out today. Brian Lynch is an amazing comic book writer, and I hope he writes some more original material soon, even though I love his adapted stuff as well, and few people do it better.

I know I don't reply to this as often as I should (or with any consistency), but I feel like bringing up a few new discussions.

For one, I just finished Watchmen a few days ago, and in the end I didn't like it. I wouldn't say it's a bad comic at all, but I can't even say it's 'great'. I've already had some arguments about it, go figure. I feel the presentation is very dated, and even if updated the scripting and paneling would need serious revisions to make it more visually appealing. That, and I felt that Moore avoided some seriously cool story elements (Adrian's past) and instead put the Black Freighter parts in while reducing Adrian's background to a four page sequence of on-the-nose-exposition. Overall I was quite disappointed.


Second, what are your thoughts on DC's latest series genocide? Last week marked the indefinite end of Nightwing, and this week the Robin and Blue Beetle volumes ended. I can't say I've read any of those, only hearing that Blue Beetle was awesome and that Nightwing/Robin were both good, fun reads, but I'm not happy with it at all. I'm a big DC fan, so maybe I'm more disappointed than others would be. Based on the monthly sales charts I don't see why they'd shut these guys down, as all three pushed a minimum of 10000+ copies a month when released, usually with Nightwing and Robin going into 20k and 30k.

I understand that this Battle for the Cowl event with the Batman Universe is going to see them get huge roles and have a couple of mini-series devoted to them individually, but why cancel their entire on-going series? More importantly, I'm furious about the Blue Beetle, because from what I've always known they've done very little promotion for the book (even when fans and critics alike loved it), while continuing nonstop advertising for stuff like Trinity which sees the same number of sales each month and by now is known by any comic enthusiast. This is honestly like the hardcore games on Wii that don't sell well because they're not promoted, and then some other game or developer suffers for it.