The Cold War

[Soren707]

Who do you think provoked the Cold War? Was it the U.S. or the Soviet Union (Although it doesn't exist anymore.)? Why do you think the nation provoked it? Please discuss.

[Ogmios22188]

Originally Posted by Soren 177

Who do you think provoked the Cold War? Was it the U.S. or the Soviet Union (Although it doesn't exist anymore.)? Why do you think the nation provoked it? Please discuss.

I'd say both parties were equally guilty. Both parties sought to expand their influence in similar ways, and both resisted each other in similar ways. I'd actually say it's commendable on both their parts that things didn't get any worse than they were.

[Azarimanka]

if you trace it right back then you have to blame George Washington and Vladimir Ilich Lenin for creating two nations which were ideologically fundamentally opposed to one another.

[Galedeep]

The Cold War was a war of ideologies, so it's probably easiest to say that neither side provoked the other and it was simply the huge amount of distrust between the two that sparked the Cold War. While arguments can be made that more diplomacy and less paranoia from each side could have perhaps changed some parts of the Cold War, the attitudes of both nations at the time made that pretty much impossible.

[Hombre de Mundo]

After the WW2, Russia felt like they had to barricate themselves, as they feared further attacks from the West. Heck, had I been attacked by Germany twice, I'd been afraid too. USA and allies feared Russia would get too strong (with all right) and thus the terror balance started.

Maybe it was a necessary war, maybe it wasn't. It's hard to speculate where we'd be today, had it not happened.

[Shadow_Aura_64]

Originally Posted by Hombre de Mundo

Maybe it was a necessary war, maybe it wasn't. It's hard to speculate where we'd be today, had it not happened.

It wasn't exactly a war, there wasn't any actual fighting. That's why the called it the Cold War. However, if Operation Doomsday had gone underway, then, yeah. We'd all be dead.

[Galedeep]

^It was only a Cold War within the two countries that were "officially" at war. Fighting occured because of the Cold War all over, it was a "Hot War" in other countries like Cuba, Korea, Vietnam, Cambodia, and more.

[Azarimanka]

Originally Posted by Galedeep

^It was only a Cold War within the two countries that were officially at war. Fighting occured because of the Cold War all over, it was a "Hot War" in other countries like Cuba, Korea, Vietnam, Cambodia, and more.

]
The CCCP and USA were never officially at war

[DarKnite92]

Originally Posted by Azarimanka

if you trace it right back then you have to blame George Washington and Vladimir Ilich Lenin for creating two nations which were ideologically fundamentally opposed to one another.

What Washington created is a lot different then what it was for Eisenhower.

[Azarimanka]

Originally Posted by DarKnite92

What Washington created is a lot different then what it was for Eisenhower.

The actual point is that you cant blame one party for the start of the cold war - if the USA or USSR had never existed then there would not have been a cold war, but since Washington and Lenin both succeeded the two countries then existed! Eisenhower would not have been president without Washington, and for all we know the USA could still be ruled from London.

[Hombre de Mundo]

Originally Posted by Azarimanka

The CCCP and USA were never officially at war

Even though it wasn't american troops vs soviet troops, the war was very much a clash of the titans kind of thing, and the war is extremely important to our history. Not only because of the people fighting and dying, but because of the ideologies that regular people stood up for (or stood against, for that matter).

[Galedeep]

Originally Posted by Azarimanka

The actual point is that you cant blame one party for the start of the cold war - if the USA or USSR had never existed then there would not have been a cold war, but since Washington and Lenin both succeeded the two countries then existed! Eisenhower would not have been president without Washington, and for all we know the USA could still be ruled from London.

You're giving too much credit to Washington for creating America. He may have played a more than prominant role in helping gain independence from Britain, but he had little to do with the actual formation of the nation itself.

[Azarimanka]

Originally Posted by Galedeep

You're giving too much credit to Washington for creating America. He may have played a more than prominant role in helping gain independence from Britain, but he had little to do with the actual formation of the nation itself.

No offence but you are not getting the point - if you wish to be pedantic then Lenin had little to do with the shaping of the nation. The fact is that Washington is the figure most closely related with the foundation of the USA.

[Galedeep]

But Lenin had a lot more to do with creating the country that was involved in the Cold War than Washington did in the formulation of the United States. Not as much as Stalin or Krushchev, because they shaped the Cold War more directly, but if we're talking the people who most influenced the ideologies of the countries that led to the Cold War, which is what Lenin, Stalin and Trotsky did for the USSR. Washington didn't do that for the US, because the US had evolved far beyond the country that existed back when Washington was president; and the very fact that Washington had little to do with the formation of the country beyond helping it gain independence from Britain.

In other words, Washington is a figurehead, not the actual mover and shaker of the country at the time. Lenin had way more of a hand in creating the USSR.

[ShiekahSage]

Originally Posted by Hombre de Mundo

Maybe It's hard to speculate where we'd be today, had it not happened.

Its not that hard to speculate. In the end it turned out to be a good thing. The constant compitition forced technology and science to increase at a much higher rate than it would have if the cold war hadn't happened. I bet that things like space exploration, modern computers, the internet, modern aircraft, ect would have been invented 25 years later than they were if the cold war hadn't happened.

Also, becuase of the forming of NATO and other such alliances, it premoted better relations between the U.S., Canada, and Europe. It also cuased the U.S. to take a more active role in global peace keeping which later helped countries like South Korea and Taiwan maintain independance, not to mention helping Communist countries with things like the Berlin Airlift in East Germany.

[Azarimanka]

Originally Posted by Galedeep

But Lenin had a lot more to do with creating the country that was involved in the Cold War than Washington did in the formulation of the United States. Not as much as Stalin or Krushchev, because they shaped the Cold War more directly, but if we're talking the people who most influenced the ideologies of the countries that led to the Cold War, which is what Lenin, Stalin and Trotsky did for the USSR. Washington didn't do that for the US, because the US had evolved far beyond the country that existed back when Washington was president; and the very fact that Washington had little to do with the formation of the country beyond helping it gain independence from Britain.

In other words, Washington is a figurehead, not the actual mover and shaker of the country at the time. Lenin had way more of a hand in creating the USSR.

you still dont get it - i am not talking about what the people did, only the fact that the nations would not have come to be without them.

[Duo]

You cannot say that Lenin and Washington/whoever are responsible for the Cold War. The father does not share the sins of his sons, just as the son does not share the sins of his father. Not only were the goals of Washington and Lenin nothing like that of Stalin and Eisenhower/Truman/whoever, but they were dead before the Cold War even began. They cannot possibly be held responsible for what happened.

What the start of the Cold War really boils down to is The United States' use of nuclear warheads against Japan, and Stalin's paranoia (if it can be called that) of being invaded again. And it wasn't just an invasion of troops he was afraid of, but also an invasion of ideals. Communism existed in a very strong way in the USSR during the war, and Stalin wanted to keep things that way. With no Fascist enemy remaining to juxtapose Communism against, Stalin had to turn to another movement which remained very strong in the world; one which went against the ideals of Communism: Capitalism.

And who had the strongest sense of Capitalism? The United States of America, and the rest of the Western World.