Homeschooling in California.

[Flames of Valor]

What in the hell are these boneheads trying to do? YOu can't be homeschooled without a degree? The reason you get homeschooled is because the people with the degrees aren't up to your standards, so who is the government to tell you how to raise your kids? You teach em how to crap and eat and talk and walk but you can't teach them. What a crock.

What do you guys think about this.

Now of course this is supposed to be better but it is completely stupid.

I can imagine how this went, "Hey guys let's tell people how to live, like we aren't supposed to." "Yeah, let's dictate to the sheeple out there."

I don't think that is too farfetched either.

Anyway, it's stupid what do you think?

[Mr. Fish]

I can sort of see where the government is coming from. Its fairly difficult to ensure kids are getting enough education from within their own homes, so I can understand where the government might be coming from, but I see two problems with their actions:

1. A degree is one of the lesser important things when it comes to actual teaching.
2. From what I've seen, homeschooled children tend to do better than non-homeschooled children on average. Certainly better than most public schools.

I might understand legislation requiring one of the parents to have a high school degree or equivalent, that might actually be a good idea. But teaching degrees for the most part don't teach one how to teach in general, but rather how to teach to a varied, unfamiliar student body in a classroom setting, none of which is present in your typical home school.

[Mad Hatter]

Flames, do you have an article explaining this in more detail? For example, what kind of degree do you need?

I can definitely see the logic in it. Many parents aren't qualified to teach their children. The movie "Jesus Camp" illustrates that quite clearly. It's quite unfair for a kid to be restricted to a single person's opinion, especially in those years.

Flames, you said, "The reason you get homeschooled is because the people with the degrees aren't up to your standards." I'm not quite sure what you mean here. There are usually two reasons parents homeschool their children. The first is to accelerate your kid's learning, which is fine. The second, and scary one, is to isolate your kid from facts you disagree with. That is irresponsible, and I think requiring some sort of degree would indeed help prevent this.

Obviously this law doesn't stop you from teaching your kids. I don't know where you got that idea. You would just have to put them in school as well.

[Chencheya]

I think I have to agree with Mad Hatter on this one. It's not like the law is out to forbid you from teaching your own children anything, but more the fact that a lot of parents aren't or wouldn't qualify to make great teachers, and that it's more for giving children the opportunity to socialise with others and learn things from people with differing opinions/teaching methods/the like, which is beneficial as well as opposed to restricting children to one single person's viewpoint and isolating them from others. On the other hand, it does have benefits in it's own rights, such as accelerated learning, because other children can be a distraction and you can gauge the pace at which your child can learn. Hmmm.

[Snapdragon]

I don't get it, so you have to be qualified to homeschool your children?

In what way is that a bad thing?

are there actually places in America where you don't need to prove that you are qualified to homeschool your children?

[Awkin]

Flames, you said, "The reason you get homeschooled is because the people with the degrees aren't up to your standards." I'm not quite sure what you mean here. There are usually two reasons parents homeschool their children. The first is to accelerate your kid's learning, which is fine. The second, and scary one, is to isolate your kid from facts you disagree with. That is irresponsible, and I think requiring some sort of degree would indeed help prevent this.

I think there's a reason here -- school just doesn't work for everyone. Being in a crowded classroom working to the mean level (Which means that, hey, there's a 99% chance that the work is too easy/hard for you) through writing doesn't work for some people at all. My brother is wicked intelligent at maths -- but he'd be in the bottom set in school. And it's not 'cause he's failing -- it's because he takes longer to take information. He'd fail at school, but he spends more time at home doing a curriculum tailored to his needs and if not doing it at a high level.

Those who school won't work for get taught at home in their parents' unearthly amount of spare time. Here we have to pass LEA inspection to show how you teach -- but you don't need a degree.

It seems kind of stupid that you need one, in fact, since you're never going to be teaching your child degree-standard work. If your child has special needs -- you may barely pass infant standard -- but that'll be useful to the extreme to the person in later life: Just being able to write, count and work things like money will be invaluable for them.

This doesn't necessarily mean I agree with it, though.

For the shielding from opinions thingummy -- aye, this is a problem. But stupidity begets stupidity -- the way to face an idea isn't to hide it away -- it's to et it up on stage, watch it fail and then throw stones at it. If it, however, doesn't fail -- then maybe you should consider your child's free will and stop indoctrinating them.

Then again -- there are such things as private schools, where you can be indoctrinated publicy. So, even in school, this will exist.

[andi]

Ok, ok, let's clear things up in this thread, mmmhhhmmm? :3

First of all, it's absurd to think that any standards of homeschooling come without any sort of qualifying factors to keep track of them. You can't just let a kid live at home for 18 years straight and then give them a high school diploma for nothing. In California, it USED to be that a person would be able to do one of three things to maintain their status as a home-schooled person. The most popular options are 2 and 3, which are "get a private tutor for three hours a day for half the year and teach all the subjects taught in the average school" and "sign up at a private or public school and become a member of an "independent study" program" (the second one being a fancy term for "take all your classes at your local community college). #2 is used most often by child actors and the like, and #3 is used by your average high schooler who's bored with public school and is basically an autodidact. All people who are completeing one of these two methods still has to pass a standardized test to prove that they learned everything they need to get their high school certificate, and most if not all pass with flying colors.

This entire issue is about method #1, which is the traditional method of homeschooling - where a parent will spend the day at home with their children and teach them. In order to do this, a parent basically had to file as a private school institution - you have to maintain an attendance record, teach everything that is taught in a public school, file an affadavit every year that states what your child learned (and if they didn't, that means the parents can go to jail for both perjury and child neglect), the child has to be able to pass all of the state standardized tests for their various years, and then... here's the major issue - the educating parent/s have to be "capable of teaching".

Capable. Of. Teaching.

One judge decided to release a decision stating that being "capable of teaching" meant that they had to have a teaching degree, another thinks it means that you're using a syllabus planned by a public school, and others still come up with various crazy ideas.

One would think that the mere fact that a child keeps up with the same standardized tests used to certify people for all public schools would be enough to prove that they learn what the state feels they need to... Otherwise, why are standards at public school not more strict?

Obviously, I think it is hideously dumb that anybody would assume that you have to put the parent through such rigorous courses when the easiest way to settle the issue would be to see what the child has learned while homeschooled or is capable of learning on their own. A person can learn a lot more on their own or when a program is gagued specifically for them than they ever could from a public school, since public schools obviously tend to scale themselves down to the lowest common denominator around here. :/ And honestly, the lowest common denominator in California is complete illiteracy and constantly speaking broken English at the age of 16. :/

California public schools, even with the highest pay for teachers by state, the highest number of teachers, and the third-best ratio of kids to teachers, usually bottoms out the list in terms of actual results. :/ California public schools, honestly, are disgusting and I would never ever send a child of mine there. :O Obviously, however, constant private tutoring and college classes are not an option for many parents or students, so homeschooling is a good way to let children learn things on their own or with parental aid. Even with the occasional flubbups and bad side effects that come from letting people homeschool children who would be considered undesirable (such as crazy religious wackjobs or people who just actively neglect their children), the kids who choose to do what they want in order to learn are going to learn a lot more than they ever would in a public institution in this fair state. :O

I'm honestly still trying to figure out why this dumb state cares so much about whether a parent understands the *process* of teaching (read: has a teaching certificate) when it should be perfectly obvious to anyone that any parent who would put the effort into trying to personally educate their kids would know how to teach specifically *to the needs of a creature they've known for its entire life*.

:/ Seriously, wtf, California?

[Margar]

Originally Posted by Flames of Valor

What in the hell are these boneheads trying to do? YOu can't be homeschooled without a degree? The reason you get homeschooled is because the people with the degrees aren't up to your standards, so who is the government to tell you how to raise your kids? You teach em how to crap and eat and talk and walk but you can't teach them. What a crock.

What do you guys think about this.

Now of course this is supposed to be better but it is completely stupid.

I can imagine how this went, "Hey guys let's tell people how to live, like we aren't supposed to." "Yeah, let's dictate to the sheeple out there."

I don't think that is too farfetched either.

Anyway, it's stupid what do you think?

Wow. this post is the firstI'm hearing about this. This is TERRIBLE. If all it took to educate a child was a degree, then parents wouldn't need to homeschool their kids.
My mom dropped out in 10th grade, but she homeschooled me until 4th grade, and I've always gotten good grades, honor roll, and all that stuff. She taught me well with not even a GED or diploma (she did eventually get her GED).
Stupid. This makes me mad, actually. Thanks for ruining my day. (j/k!)

now if my mom had to try to teach me high school stuff, that would have been a bad idea, so I can MAYBE see a parent needing a degree for the hig school level, or just work with the school board (like they do already) and do some correspondace and enrichment courses.

[Mad Hatter]

Originally Posted by Awkin

I think there's a reason here -- school just doesn't work for everyone. Being in a crowded classroom working to the mean level (Which means that, hey, there's a 99% chance that the work is too easy/hard for you) through writing doesn't work for some people at all. My brother is wicked intelligent at maths -- but he'd be in the bottom set in school. And it's not 'cause he's failing -- it's because he takes longer to take information. He'd fail at school, but he spends more time at home doing a curriculum tailored to his needs and if not doing it at a high level.

This is partly what I was referring to with "accelerated learning". If a kid learns slowly, they can be homeschooled to compensate for this. But I think this also illustrates the need to have qualified teachers - from my understanding, people with learning disabilities are generally taught with different methods tailored to that disability. Your average parent, with no background in teaching whatsoever, is obviously not going to do that. I could be wrong, but from my experience, when parents want their disabled kids to be homeschooled, they hire a teacher who is familiar with teaching the disabled.

Those who school won't work for get taught at home in their parents' unearthly amount of spare time. Here we have to pass LEA inspection to show how you teach -- but you don't need a degree.

That might be a better approach. I'd still like to see the specifics of this law. It's hard to judge this without knowing the curriculum of the degree or the time it takes to get it.

It seems kind of stupid that you need one, in fact, since you're never going to be teaching your child degree-standard work. If your child has special needs -- you may barely pass infant standard -- but that'll be useful to the extreme to the person in later life: Just being able to write, count and work things like money will be invaluable for them.

I disagree with you there. Why do high school teachers need degrees? Why do university professors need PhD's when their students are only getting a bachelor's degree? In order to properly explain concepts, it is very helpful to have a deeper understanding of them. I think a lot of the problems with indoctrination in homeschooling start here - most of the parents who teach their kids that evolution is false don't actually understand it. Even though any mention of evolution to a kid would have to be extremely elementary, the parent's understanding is obviously going to affect the way it's taught.

For the shielding from opinions thingummy -- aye, this is a problem. But stupidity begets stupidity -- the way to face an idea isn't to hide it away -- it's to et it up on stage, watch it fail and then throw stones at it. If it, however, doesn't fail -- then maybe you should consider your child's free will and stop indoctrinating them.

Which is why I think that if a parent is going to share their stupidity with their child, they should also put their kid in a real school, where it will be exposed to the generally accepted side. If the ideas of the parent are that stupid, the child will have been exposed to enough information to realize that.

Then again -- there are such things as private schools, where you can be indoctrinated publicy. So, even in school, this will exist.

That's true, but private schools are also much more exposed than homeschooling, which makes it a lot harder to get away with this stuff. I would guess that teachers are less likely to teach blatant falsehoods, given the education they needed to get the job.

[Flames of Valor]

The point is the government is not supposed to, nor allowed to do such things. They can't tell you you are unqualified, the only people who can do that are the parents of the child. To think this ****ty law actually got passed is a new level in human stupidity and ability ignore our own constitution.

It is not the goverments child at all.

[graceofbass]

Actually, the government is allowed to set standards for what children are learning. Because it is a law that all children under the age of 16 must attend school, and because all public schools have set standards, the government is allowed to make sure that home schooled children are able to meet those standards.

That being said, most home schooled kids perform above and beyond and government set standards because their parents aren't teaching to standards like public school teachers are, they are teaching their children how to learn. As a future parent who is almost done with her degree, however, I must point out that going to college and getting a degree in anything, from Biology to Interior Design to Flower Arranging, really does a lot for a person. Even if your grades aren't the best, you are able to grow in learning, emotionally, mentally, and expand your point of view. So I think requiring parents to have a degree is a valid rule. As Margar said, home schooling may not require a degree for elementary and middle school teaching, and there are a lot of very capable parents home schooling their children who do not have degrees, but I say that it certainly won't hurt.

[Flames of Valor]

Originally Posted by graceofbass

Actually, the government is allowed to set standards for what children are learning. Because it is a law that all children under the age of 16 must attend school, and because all public schools have set standards, the government is allowed to make sure that home schooled children are able to meet those standards.

That being said, most home schooled kids perform above and beyond and government set standards because their parents aren't teaching to standards like public school teachers are, they are teaching their children how to learn. As a future parent who is almost done with her degree, however, I must point out that going to college and getting a degree in anything, from Biology to Interior Design to Flower Arranging, really does a lot for a person. Even if your grades aren't the best, you are able to grow in learning, emotionally, mentally, and expand your point of view. So I think requiring parents to have a degree is a valid rule. As Margar said, home schooling may not require a degree for elementary and middle school teaching, and there are a lot of very capable parents home schooling their children who do not have degrees, but I say that it certainly won't hurt.

If you want to make sure kids are being taught correctly, then you could have them take a mandatory test, the Sats for instance. Then determine by that. BUt still it is not the governments choice, rather, its shouldn't be.

[Eternal Paradox]

I am amazed. I am agreeing with Flames of Valor.

To stay on topic, Home schooled kids are expected to perform at the same levels as public school kids. From what I know, they take the same state standardized tests as everyone else. Back when I was in High school, we had a few home schooled kids show up to take the FCAT.

I see no reason as to why this law has been passed.