Animals: instincts, desires, emotions?

[GentleArtillery]

There are some different things I've wondered about lately.

- Do animals have desires and/or emotions? Do all animals have these attributes, do some of them, or do none?
- What makes humans different from other animals, and what makes animals different from plants, fungi, bacteria, etc? Now, not as much simple biology as their difference when it comes to instinct and intelligence.
- Why does instinct and intelligence play such a big role when a person decides which animal is more "worthy" than others? And for that matter, what is instinct and intelligence (I'm not trying to sound thoughtful here, though)? I probably come with really stupid questions right now, but I'm not into biology, or whatever area of profession knowledge of instinct and intelligence go under.

I believe that animals have desires. First, observing how animals act, would make me conclude that they have desires. Or rather, most animals. Due to their independent nature (i e, they have to do things in order to survive, as opposed to plants, where everything gets done for them), they need desires (either deriving from instinct or intelligence, or what you'd call it) in order to surive. If there is no water in the area, a plant located in that area would die. An animal, however, would search for water somewhere else. But, in order to go searching for this water, it needs to have some kind of driving force - perhaps, wanting to drink.

[Hombre de Mundo]

Do animals have desires? Is it even possible to actually ask such a question? I mean... duh

I'd like to say something though. Plants can stretch their roots deeper down the ground in search for water. Let's say there's an underground body of water, a plant could dig the roots deep enough to access that water. Would that count as desire? Neh, plants have no brains, and wouldn't be able to have emotions. They're like machines. They do stuff, but they don't have the desire to. They're just programed to do it (through DNA). The same would go for jellyfish, I guess. They don't have hearts, brains or nerve systems... they just are.

What makes us different from other animals? Well, we're smarter than they are, and we're the dominant species on earth. You don't mess with humanity.

The animals that are most like humans are worth more. Because we can connect with our own kind easier than with... bugs, for examples. Therefore, species that resembles human beings in whatever way will always be considered more important than other.

[GentleArtillery]

Originally Posted by Hombre de Mundo

Do animals have desires? Is it even possible to actually ask such a question? I mean... duh

I'd like to say something though. Plants can stretch their roots deeper down the ground in search for water. Let's say there's an underground body of water, a plant could dig the roots deep enough to access that water. Would that count as desire? Neh, plants have no brains, and wouldn't be able to have emotions. They're like machines. They do stuff, but they don't have the desire to. They're just programed to do it (through DNA). The same would go for jellyfish, I guess. They don't have hearts, brains or nerve systems... they just are.

Now, is what the animals have desires, or instinct? And, does it separate them enough from plants in order for us to non-arbitrarily care more for animals than for plants?
I believe so, but I'm too lazy to think up any "objective" reasons myself.

[Hombre de Mundo]

^Desires and instincts oftentimes go together.

Plants don't suffer. As such, what harm does it make to kill a plant in any way you wish? It doesn't harm anyone, right? And as such, caring for plants as much as you care for animals is... uncalled for. Plants are probably as aware as a machine is. That is, they're not aware at all, but yet they do what they're programed to do. And I don't see people talk about caring for machines, so... I see no reason whatsoever to care about plants.

However, I'd care more about meat eating plants than regular plants. Because they're awesome!

[DarkVaati]

Actually, it was recently proved plants do feel pain, but it is transmitted via chemicals, not electical impulses as it is in creatures with a nervous system, such as humans.

[GentleArtillery]

Originally Posted by Hombre de Mundo

^Desires and instincts oftentimes go together.

Plants don't suffer. As such, what harm does it make to kill a plant in any way you wish? It doesn't harm anyone, right? And as such, caring for plants as much as you care for animals is... uncalled for. Plants are probably as aware as a machine is. That is, they're not aware at all, but yet they do what they're programed to do. And I don't see people talk about caring for machines, so... I see no reason whatsoever to care about plants.

However, I'd care more about meat eating plants than regular plants. Because they're awesome!

I agree with you. It's not wrong to kill a plant due to the plant, but rather whatever outside things the killing of this plant might damage - environment, humans, animals.

But still, how do we prove that animals suffer, and that they have desires, etc? I'm mainly asking this because, on another forum, I presented capability and reason (i e, the organ that makes it biologically possible to have feel pain/have desires, and a reason for the species to have these features), but that didn't appeal to my opposed debaters.

[Hombre de Mundo]

^ How do I know my brother have desires and feelings? I don't, I just assume he does because he acts as if he had them. And he obviously has all the required parts one needs in order to feel pain so, ya. There's simply no reason for him not to.

Same goes for animals. No reason why they shouldn't have all that, now is there?

DarkVaati: Sounce? I wish to know more

[DarkVaati]

Well, it's not pain as we know it, but an equivalent, similar to how RNA is an equivalent of DNA. Pain is just the bodies way of saying that is bad, don't do it again. When you chop a branch from a tree, the tree releases chemicals that tell it not to send much sap to that area, cut off nutrients, etc, much the same way pain informs our brains to try and get out of danger. I suppose it's not really pain, but biologically speaking, it serves exactly the same purpose.

Hang, I'll find the source now. It was at the Guardian newspaper, at guardian.co.uk home | guardian.co.uk, in the science articles.

EDIT: cant find it right now, but read this: Plant perception (physiology) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia. As you can see, Plants react to heat, touch, infection by microbes, physical disruption. That is all pain is in humans. Reaction to extreme heat, touch, microbes, phsyical disruption (Ie, wounds).

Plants use a hormonal sentience to decode these chemical messages, and do something about it. Kind of like what our brain des with us, just on a far more basic scale.

[GentleArtillery]

^I tried that too, but they didn't agree : P Eh, I'm very annoying, I guess. Trying to get someone else solve my problems.

DarkVaati, I'd really like a source for that. And additionally, even though chemicals would be released, how would they be able to recognise the pain if there's no "brain" to register it. Then, it would be pointless for plants to feel pain, since there is very little they can do about anything.

EDIT: so if it's just the equivalent of pain, how would it be counted as torture?

[DarkVaati]

They recognise it using a hormonal sentience, which basically decodes chemicals. Pretty basic.

To answer your Edit, that is a tough one. Pain is just a series of electrical impulses. Imagine trying to describe pain to someone who cannot feel it. Hard, huh? We have no real way of knowing what plants feel like, so for all we know, we could be torturing them on a daily basis, although it seems somewhat unlikely.