Why deism is more rational than theism.

[Dolphin]

I believe in God because it is the most logical conclusion I can make with the knowledge I have. However, even though I believe in God, I am in no way religious and do not have a personal relationship with God. This is because I reject religions on account of their contradictory scripture and the fact that there is such an abundance of religions. There is no evidence that God actually even knows humanity exists, nor is there evidence that he cares about us. He could well be malevolent, or perhaps completely powerless as he can not interfere with this dimension from his higher dimension.

Increasingly, however, it seems people come to a logical conclusion about the Universe the infers that God must exist and then assume that that conclusion comes with evidence that God can hear you. In the past, people may have been 100% certain that there was a mountain God, or that when humans got ill it was because they have been posessed by demons, but this does not make it true. God could exist, but the delusion that he hears your prayers and watches over you could all be in your head. Just like how a teenage girl speaking to someone over the Internet believes she is speaking to a teenage boy, when in fact she is speaking to a thirty-year-old man. Teenage boys exist in the world, but that particular girl's belief that she is talking to one is a complete delusion.

This is why I'm a deist, but I'd be more than happy to see some rebuttals to my beliefs. If anyone thinks they have evidence for God being benevolent and being concerned with humanity, please post it.

[Hombre de Mundo]

The only "proof" that God is good etc and so on, is personal experience. Had I had a personal experience meeting God, I would most likely become a believer (for obvious reasons). Even so, I can't deny that I would also doubt this experience's genuinity. Could've been a dream, a hallucination or something alike. As such, if I ever have such an experience in which I can communicate with God, my first question would be "how do I know this is really happening?"

Otherwise, I agree with your general statement. For all we know, God could be nothing more than an a**hole. For all we know, he may not even exist at all... God is a logic answer to the big questions of life, but that's all there is to it... as far as we know.

EDIT: For the record, I'm an agnostic, since I know that I cannot possibly know. And guessing is for losers ;-)

[GrandMoffTarkin]

I can't show you "evidence". But I can tell you that the only way to experience God's love is through personal experience.

Read this article and watch this video: Slow Hole To China: Irrefutable Proof of God's Existence

I find it hilarious. God has a sense of humor.

This article may not change your mind, but it will give you a good laugh. It also shows how God speaks to us and cares for us.

[Bobslob]

Originally Posted by Dolphin

I believe in God because it is the most logical conclusion I can make with the knowledge I have. However, even though I believe in God, I am in no way religious and do not have a personal relationship with God. This is because I reject religions on account of their contradictory scripture and the fact that there is such an abundance of religions. There is no evidence that God actually even knows humanity exists, nor is there evidence that he cares about us. He could well be malevolent, or perhaps completely powerless as he can not interfere with this dimension from his higher dimension.

Let us put aside the question of different established religions for a moment. After all, it is possible that all established religions are wrong (or at least, none is completely right), and yet that God is personal and wants to be involved in the world. It would seem to me that we ought to examine the question of which religion is right after we discuss whether God is deistic or conceived as He is in traditional monotheism, if we're taking it from the angle you are. It may be more profitable.

Increasingly, however, it seems people come to a logical conclusion about the Universe the infers that God must exist and then assume that that conclusion comes with evidence that God can hear you. In the past, people may have been 100% certain that there was a mountain God, or that when humans got ill it was because they have been posessed by demons, but this does not make it true. God could exist, but the delusion that he hears your prayers and watches over you could all be in your head. Just like how a teenage girl speaking to someone over the Internet believes she is speaking to a teenage boy, when in fact she is speaking to a thirty-year-old man. Teenage boys exist in the world, but that particular girl's belief that she is talking to one is a complete delusion.

I have a few questions which may help us to think more clearly about this issue:

1. Based on the reasons which support your belief in God, what are the minimum attributes or characteristics which this God must have?

2. When God created, was the act of creation necessary or free?

3. Why did God create?

This is why I'm a deist, but I'd be more than happy to see some rebuttals to my beliefs. If anyone thinks they have evidence for God being benevolent and being concerned with humanity, please post it.

This will probably take a long time to discuss, but I'm more than happy to enter into dialogue with you.

-Rob

[Walter Sobchak]

You do realize that Deism is a type of Theism, right? Your statement makes about as much sense as "apples are better than fruit." Which is none.

I also believe that my Atheist friends would be disappointed to see this post. You disregard Atheism because you happen to believe another equally logical answer, in what appears to be an attempt to propagate your own opinion as the only logical one.

Also, in the future, I'd avoid using the "Why [My Opinion] is Better than [Your Opinion]" structure; it portrays you as blatantly arrogant.

But hey, atleast you're not a Nihilist.

[Sam250]

Nihilism is more rational than deism

[Dolphin]

Originally Posted by Walter Sobchak

You do realize that Deism is a type of Theism, right? Your statement makes about as much sense as "apples are better than fruit." Which is none.

I also believe that my Atheist friends would be disappointed to see this post. You disregard Atheism because you happen to believe another equally logical answer, in what appears to be an attempt to propagate your own opinion as the only logical one.

Also, in the future, I'd avoid using the "Why [My Opinion] is Better than [Your Opinion]" structure; it portrays you as blatantly arrogant.

But hey, atleast you're not a Nihilist.

Yeah, I really didn't mean for the title to come across that way. "Reasons why deism may be more rational than theism" would have been a better title.

Originally Posted by Bobslob

1. Based on the reasons which support your belief in God, what are the minimum attributes or characteristics which this God must have?

2. When God created, was the act of creation necessary or free?

3. Why did God create?

1. He created the observable Universe. That's it. Some atheists say that matter is eternal and has always existed. But I think God is the only eternal thing. It seems clear, through scientific observation of matter, that nothing could have existed forever. Only something above the known logic viewed in this existence could have existed forever ... and since the Universe needed a cause God must have been that cause - because something eternal must have caused it. It's a bit like how us three-dimensional beings can imagine a two-dimensional existence and then create it on paper. Even though we created it, we had to have made it from our dimension and we couldn't have existed in that dimension. If we put a sphere in a 2-d world, the 2-d man would have seen it as some wierd lines appearing from nowhere - it would go against the know laws of his existence and he would be completely baffled. Just as we know creating matter is completely impossible in our existence (energy cannot be created nor destroyed, only transferred).

2. I would hypothesise that it was free. But I can't say for certain in terms of a logical conclusion based on what I have observed about the world. I have never seen God, and I may never.

3. Again, I can't know. There doesn't seem to be any way in which I can contact God and find out these things.