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Grand Inquisitor
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On the other hand, I hold that this does not exclude divine agency in the world. Quote:
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Thanks to Captain Cornflake for the redesign, originally Pipking's. Rules don't hurt, but mods make sure disobeying them does.|Adopted imstarbright |
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Conquer fate. Take the throne. Rule the world.
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From a biblical standpoint, something to think about is that it doesn't mention the nonexistence of aliens. It describes the origins of humanity, but there's nothing to say that the God who made the Earth would/could not have other planets created with life forms of their own. If he's omnipresent/omnipotent/omnietcetera enough to look after every little ant or whatever, it stand to reason that he could watch over other species or even other humans on other planets too.
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Governor
![]() Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Florida
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The Bible does not say if there is life on other planets. It simply says that God created the heavens and earth and put man on it. But this silence on the subject does not require that earth is the only place with life on it. But then again, this doesn't mean there is life out there, either.
Let me propose some reasons why I believe there is no life on other planets. Now, I should tell you that these reasons are simply exercises in biblical theology. The Bible says there is one Trinitarian God. Jesus was God in flesh (John 1:1,14; Col. 2:9; Phil. 2:5-8), second person of the Trinity, and died for our sins (Romans 5; 1 Pet. 2:24). If, there were other beings on other planets that have sinned, then they would need a redeemer. God would have to die for them as well.(1) Only God can forgive sins. Jesus is God in flesh (John 1:1,14; Col. 2:9), is forever a man (1 Tim. 2:5; Heb. 7:17, 21) and died for the sins of people here on earth (Rom. 5:8). Therefore, I conclude that the only members left in the Trinity to die for the sins of another race would be the Father and the Holy Spirit. But this doesn't seem credible since the focus of the Trinitarian effort in this world has been for the Father to elect a people (Luke 18:7; Rom. 8:33), the Son to redeem them (John 6:39; 17:9,24; Rom. 5:8; 1 Pet. 2:24), and the Holy Spirit to fill, guide, and indwell them (Acts 4:29-31; John 16:13; Rom. 8:9-14). The focus of their effort has been this world and the redemption of mankind, not anywhere else. Second, if there were life on other planets, would it be possible that they never sinned and don't need a redeemer? I think this question can be answered by the Bible where it says that creation is groaning, waiting for its redemption at the return of Christ (Rom. 8:22). That would mean that all of creation was affected by the fall. When Adam sinned, the ground was cursed and death entered the world. If that is so, then any other beings out there that were made in God's image, would have fallen too since they would be part of creation.(2) I don't see how they could escape the effect of the fall. They would be sinners too and need a redeemer. Then they would fall under the first objection above. Third, there are only two options available to explain our existence. Creation and evolution. I have studied the theory of evolution and do not believe it is a viable option to explain how we got here. I do not accept evolution for two reasons: The Bible says God created life on earth; that means it did not evolve. Second, the problems of spontaneous life formation are so immense that it is impossible. Also, missing links abound. The fossil record is spotty at best. DNA mutation theory is insufficient to account for life form development.
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is leaving ZU
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How can we find something that doesn't exist? What proof is there of extraterrestrial life?
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Zora Warrior
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 446
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The Chimp Genome Reveals A Retroviral Invasion In Primate Evolution http://www.nature.com/ng/journal/v29/n4/abs/ng775.html http://genomebiology.com/content/pdf...eviews1017.pdf
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I pledge allegiance to the me, of the United Person of Nietzsche, and to the Me for which it stands: one person above God, indivisible, with Liberty and Justice for whenever it suits my needs. "There is no cure for cancer. There is, however, a cure for the idea. Ask your doctor about suicide." - Master Shade I am the modern Faust, the invoker of Godwin, and the Second Coming of the Antichrist. Christian Math: 3 = 3 = 1 A cult becomes a religion when it burns its first heretic. |
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Zora Warrior
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 446
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Numbers. Think of the vastness of the universe. 13.5 Billion years old. There are, at a conservative estimate, ten million, billion planets. How can you tell me that, with that number & sheer amount of time, there isn't some sort of recognizable life on another planet?
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I pledge allegiance to the me, of the United Person of Nietzsche, and to the Me for which it stands: one person above God, indivisible, with Liberty and Justice for whenever it suits my needs. "There is no cure for cancer. There is, however, a cure for the idea. Ask your doctor about suicide." - Master Shade I am the modern Faust, the invoker of Godwin, and the Second Coming of the Antichrist. Christian Math: 3 = 3 = 1 A cult becomes a religion when it burns its first heretic. |
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Grand Inquisitor
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The other problem is that your theory assumes the absolute necessity of suffering and death in order for redemption. God, not being constrained by any necessity outside of Himself, is not constrained by absolute necessity to effect the work of redemption in such a way either. Quote:
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While the Bible does offer a creation account, it is very unclear what exactly the Bible intends to assert actually took place in creation. It seems that the Genesis creation texts-- both of them-- are crafted in such a way as to be targeted to the Jewish audience which would hear them. That is to say, it is a story with definite fundamental truths being asserted, in a narrative context which would be highly accessible to its original audience. The two creation texts clearly bear this out, for they structure the creation story around two different (but not exclusive) theologies. The first story witnesses especially to the orderedness of creation, and its goodness. If you are interested, I highly recommend Joseph Ratzinger's treatment of Genesis, a book he wrote by the title of, "In the Beginning." You can read some excerpts from it here. Your objection that, "God created life therefore it did not evolve" is perhaps misguided. It could turn out to be the case that God created life and decided to move it by natural processes, such as evolution. These are not necessarily exclusive categories. Your second objection, that there are gaps, is true but trivial. There are enough fossils for particular species to make the theory of evolution rational to believe in at least those particular species. It is simply impossible that we will fill up all gaps, because the nature of a historical science like evolution will be limited by the fortuitous preservation and discovery of ancient fossils. But there is sufficient evidence to hold it for many instances, and it is rational to suppose that other 'missing links' (although these missing links are often exaggerated by people trying to debunk evolution) can likewise be explained. If we combine this with other salient facts of biology-- the common genetic material, relations between species, etc.-- then it seems unlikely that any other scientific explanation will be able to come near to the explanatory power of evolution. -Rob
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Thanks to Captain Cornflake for the redesign, originally Pipking's. Rules don't hurt, but mods make sure disobeying them does.|Adopted imstarbright |
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Zora Warrior
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: At my Shadow Seeker's <3
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We Were Born For This
![]() Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Queen's England
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I'd say the answer is 100% yes but if it'll be in our lifetimes or those of our children who knows.
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Goron
![]() Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: In homework land.
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I say we won't find other beings on any other planet since I get my claims from the Bible. We were created uniquely and there's no other living beings in the universe.
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Courtesy of Sugarpoultry. BGS adopted me!!!!! "All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to us." -Gandalf Try Jesus. If you don't like Him, the devil will always take you back. (Only a joke.) |
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But there's no sense crying over every mistake.
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Because of the universe's immense size, and that it expands further even as I type this, I believe it is logical to say that we are not the only life in the universe. It's likely that microbial life is actually relatively common in the universe, and judging from the number of extrasolar planets in space I find it reasonable that intelligent life is also out there.
Will we ever meet such life? Most likely not for a long time. We would require FTL transportation and communication before true searching became an option.
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Last edited by Razekial; 04-01-2008 at 06:20 PM. |
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"...Standing on the shoulders of giants."
![]() ![]() Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Canada
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The problem is, we can't say if extraterrestrial life is likely or not, because we don't know the probability of it appearing anywhere.
If the odds are 1 in 8, then you'd expect lots of life around every star. If the odds are 1 in 400 trillion trillion then we could easily be the only life we'll ever meet.
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Grand Inquisitor
![]() ![]() Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 3,223
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At best we have an argument from the silence of scripture. But what can we really conclude from that? -Rob
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Thanks to Captain Cornflake for the redesign, originally Pipking's. Rules don't hurt, but mods make sure disobeying them does.|Adopted imstarbright |
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We Were Born For This
![]() Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Queen's England
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![]() There a trillions of stars, and life WILL be on one of those planets but when we'd find them is a mystery because we're so far away and they might not use the same things we use, they could of discovered an entirely different way of life and communication to us, they could just be small bug like creatures, still its life and split second we find it hopefully everyone will just ditch the bible for being a book of dictating crap, moving away from the bible bashing thats a different thread entirely .
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lick my battery
![]() Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 1,071
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If the God of the Bible does exist, and that he made life on other planets. There is no reason to believe that he would give the same set of rules to ET's as he would us. So Sin, or forgiveness through a Jesus like figure may not apply to ET's God may have created.
Saying there are no ET's because of the Bible is fallacious because the Bible is the account of Mans relationship with God. Not Gods relationship with ET.
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Zora Warrior
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 446
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__________________ I pledge allegiance to the me, of the United Person of Nietzsche, and to the Me for which it stands: one person above God, indivisible, with Liberty and Justice for whenever it suits my needs. "There is no cure for cancer. There is, however, a cure for the idea. Ask your doctor about suicide." - Master Shade I am the modern Fa |
























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