Fitna the Movie -an Anti Quran Film- released!

[Gerudo]

LiveLeak.com - Fitna the Movie: Geert Wilders' film about the Quran (English)

Finally, Fitna the Movie is there. An Anti-Koran film by Geert Wilders. An awesome movie, representing the truth about Muslim-extremists. Geert Wilders, being a politican, made this movie. Around a half-million people in the Netherlands support this man, and his views.
He is from the opinion Western-Europe should be made free of Muslims (extremists) and sees the Islam as great danger.

See the truth and discuss the movie here. A must see for everyone.

[Nietzsche]

Right. A quasi-racist dutch politician made a movie bashing islam, and his political party stands for keeping "Holland free of non-western europeans".

Excuse me, but am I the only one who sees him as a touch..hmm..what's the word...ignorant?

[Future]

just to save some of the dutch pride left here, though gerudo (dnice) is making it quite hard, the Dutch government has distanced itself from the views of mr wilders.

[GDwarf]

The movie makes a rather large mistake, or rather, probably a purposeful equivocation.


It is perfectly true that most terrorists are Muslims.


However, most Muslims are not terrorists.


The movie takes point one, and then tries to quickly swap it with point two and hopes you don't notice.


So, for that alone it's despicable. One should be able to make one's point (if true) without lies or equivocation.

[Snapdragon]

I'm starting to get a really creepy nazi - vibe from this anti- muslim crap that is spreading.

isn't Geert Wilders the guy who wants to ban the koran in the netherlands?

[Tazryl]

I could careless what religon you practice or do not practice. That is ultimately your choice, shoving something down someone not only make you look bad, but the religon you try and represent.

I only care what people do with that religon. Some people take it to an extream and use it to try and justify terrorist attacks or maybe try and brainwash their children and other people to deny anything and everything other who do not believe say. It truely is a scary idea that something that is supposed to unite people can be used so negativly.

Also the way the OP explained it, it sounds kinda offensive and I must agree with Snapdragon. Its kinda giving off this 'Nazi vibe'

I hate how Muslims are being targeted because of the terrorists. It makes them seem as if they are some great threat, when they are not.

[Gerudo]

Soon enough I will give my views about the film.

Im the main time, remember the following: The "film" is the truth and nothing but the truth, and it can only be interpret as the truth. You can not disagree with the movie or whatever you see; it reflects the current views of the extreme Islam.
Besides, do not watch the film in defense - be open. It's pointless to go and watch something when at the same time all you do is disgaree with what you see - but then again there's nothing you can disagree with.

Originally Posted by Tazryl

I hate how Muslims are being targeted because of the terrorists. It makes them seem as if they are some great threat, when they are not.

How in the world can you make such a comment after knowing the facts and watching the facts as seen in the movie? The extreme Islam is the most dangerous threat we have to face yet - can't you see?

[GDwarf]

Extremism, yes.


"Extreme Islam" is artificially narrowing the problem to allow you to justify racism.


Really, that's about where we got to last time we discussed something like this, and I don't see that changing this time 'round. :/.

[Tazryl]

Originally Posted by dnice

Soon enough I will give my views about the film.

Im the main time, remember the following: The "film" is the truth and nothing but the truth, and it can only be interpret as the truth. You can not disagree with the movie or whatever you see; it reflects the current views of the extreme Islam.
Besides, do not watch the film in defense - be open. It's pointless to go and watch something when at the same time all you do is disgaree with what you see - but then again there's nothing you can disagree with.

How in the world can you make such a comment after knowing the facts and watching the facts as seen in the movie? The extreme Islam is the most dangerous threat we have to face yet - can't you see?

Might have worded it wrong. What I meant was how Muslims are being treated because of the terrorists. Everyone is quick to jump to conclusions about them with out knowing them.

I mean if I were to think this, I might aswell make Hitler my best friend and all of the other racist bastards of the worlds history.

[Razekial]

This is stupid. In no way do I condone terrorism, but carrying prejudice against 2 billion people because they share the same faith as those who committed 9/11 and related attacks is idiotic.

edit:

Originally Posted by Nietzsche

...did you totally miss 1939 to 1945?

Good point.

[Galedeep]

I haven't watched the video, because I don't have the time right now, but how can it be absolute fact? I highly doubt that the video can be free from bias, because a film always takes on the slant of whoever created it, at least to some extent. Even in this case, which I believe it just shows excepts from the Qur'an juxtaposed with images of terrorist activities. That in itself shows bias, because not every muslim interprets the Qu'ran in the same way, same way different Christian groups interpret the Bible or Jews interepret the Torah.

This, to me, seems like its painting the entire muslim world with the broadest brush possible. It would be like...juxtaposing passages from the bible with Fred Phelps and his Baptist Church doing all the awful stuff they do and then saying all Baptists or all Christians were like that. It's silly.

[Daemonius]

Originally Posted by Nietzsche

...did you totally miss 1939 to 1945?

That situation isn't exactly the same situation we're facing here, the jews weren't as violent and radical as the muslims are, they just "annoyed" the wrong people at the wrong time...

Don't try to disagree with dnice, what Wilders has shown is the truth and nothing but the truth...and it could've been a lot more "offensive" to the muslims.

[Nietzsche]

Originally Posted by Daemonius

That situation isn't exactly the same situation we're facing here, the jews weren't as violent and radical as the muslims are, they just "annoyed" the wrong people at the wrong time...

Don't try to disagree with dnice, what Wilders has shown is the truth and nothing but the truth...and it could've been a lot more "offensive" to the muslims.

Are you blind? Islam poses no threat to Europe. Infact, the threats come from within, with these silly "Keep Europe arab/muslim free!" movements that take of their stuff from the Nazi party, replacing jews with muslims.

[Daemonius]

Originally Posted by Nietzsche

Are you blind? Islam poses no threat to Europe. Infact, the threats come from within, with these silly "Keep Europe arab/muslim free!" movements that take of their stuff from the Nazi party, replacing jews with muslims.

*Points to the flag under his avatar*
Deamonius, currently residing in the world's safest country...

I realise that not every muslim thinks like this, but most do. The fact is that the Islam is a very dangerous religion, which you can't deny. It's outdated an inhumane, having verses saying that you must kill an infidel even if he tries to befriend you and a verse that states that you beat your wife if she doesn't want to sleep with you.

Of course I know that there are good muslims, who just have their religions to find faith and inner peace, but a religion that brainwashes people into hating and possibly killing everything other than them shouldn't be allowed to excist.

I can't deny the media also makes people afraid, but this is a real threath, not like the stuff you see in ddocumentaries like "Bowling for Columbine" (awesome doc BTW).

I have always been open-minded to everyone since I was a small child, accepted anyone regardless of sex, sexual preference, religion and what else...But I cannot tolerate anyone who can't tolerate me because I tolerate pretty much everything.

[Nietzsche]

Originally Posted by Daemonius

*Points to the flag under his avatar*
Deamonius, currently residing in the world's safest country...

I realise that not every muslim thinks like this, but most do. The fact is that the Islam is a very dangerous religion, which you can't deny. It's outdated an inhumane, having verses saying that you must kill an infidel even if he tries to befriend you and a verse that states that you beat your wife if she doesn't want to sleep with you.

Of course I know that there are good muslims, who jusst have their religions to find faith and inner peace, but a religion that brainwashes people into hating and possibly killing everything other than them shouldn't be allowed to excist.

I can't deny the media also makes people afraid, but this is a real threath, not like the stuff you see in ddocumentaries like "Bowling for Columbine" (awesome doc BTW).

I have always been open-minded to everyone since I was a small child, accepted anyone regardless of sex, sexual preference, religion and what else...But I cannot tolerate anyone who can't tolerate me because I tolerate pretty much everything.

Then don't tolerate the extremists. But accept the moderates. Like the majority of muslims. Using your logic, all Germans are nazis and all dutch are nazi-conspirators.

[Daemonius]

Originally Posted by Nietzsche

Then don't tolerate the extremists. But accept the moderates. Like the majority of muslims. Using your logic, all Germans are nazis and all dutch are nazi-conspirators.

I accept the moderates, but I can't accept a religion that inspires people to hate and kill.

Their religion is TOO DANGEROUS, even if it has some good things too it, I can't accept a book that pretty much promotes extreme xenophobia, wife beatings and what not...

[Nietzsche]

Originally Posted by Daemonius

I accept the moderates, but I can't accept a religion that inspires people to hate and kill.

Their religion is TOO DANGEROUS, even if it has some good things too it, I can't accept a book that pretty much promotes extreme xenophobia, wife beatings and what not...

Do you oppose catholicism and protestantism then?

[Daemonius]

Originally Posted by Nietzsche

Do you oppose catholicism and protestantism then?

I do, but they currently aren't THAT dangerous anymore like they were couple of centuries ago, or Islam is currently...I can pretty much accept them: they may believe in something I find to be nonsense, but they don't force me to believe...

[GDwarf]

Originally Posted by Daemonius

*Points to the flag under his avatar*
Deamonius, currently residing in the world's safest country...

I realise that not every muslim thinks like this, but most do.

There are more than two billion Muslims.

If most of them thought like that there would be no one left alive since they'd have killed everyone else.

The fact is that the Islam is a very dangerous religion, which you can't deny. It's outdated an inhumane, having verses saying that you must kill an infidel even if he tries to befriend you and a verse that states that you beat your wife if she doesn't want to sleep with you.

I don't deny that it's dangerous.

But then, so is Christianity; the Bible has remarkably similar passages to those ones.


Seriously, read my first post here:

Most terrorists are Muslims is true.
Most Muslims are terrorists is not.


I'm also puzzled by this "us" and "they" mentality.

There is no "us" or "they" in this issue. Having a "they" implies that every Muslim is responsible for the actions of every other Muslim, which is ludicrous.

It's thinking like that that leads to stuff such as what happened in Ireland a decade or so ago, with suicide bombings and wars over religion. It's simple: One of "them" kills your friend, so you kill a different member of their "group" in revenge.

Except, the person you've killed has no connection to the one who killed your friend, save religion.



It's the exact same thing here. Extremists do something bad, so you assume that most every Muslim must be the same.

That's ludicrous to the extreme.


My proof? Canada. 2% of the Canadian population is Muslim.

That doesn't sound like much, but it's a significant number of people.

Guess what? We don't have daily (or even centennial) terrorist attacks, we don't have riots over religion, people don't have their free speech taken away because they've offended a Muslim (admittedly, that was tried recently, but public outcry, from within even the Muslim community, has been huge.) we aren't all murdered as we walk down the street, we haven't been forced to adopt sharia law, etc.


That seems to blow this guy's thesis out of the water, doesn't it? The only reason you need to protect your country is because of your previous efforts to protect your country. If you didn't discriminate against Muslims so that they can't get good jobs, and if you didn't stereotype them all as criminals, I bet they'd be far less vocal about what they see as oppression, and probably be less criminally inclined.

You've gone and made your bed. Now it's up to you to lie in it, not blame the hotel for giving you the wrong coloured sheets.

[Razekial]

Originally Posted by Daemonius

I realise that not every muslim thinks like this, but most do.

I think it's safe to say that most Muslims don't conspire to destroy those who disagree with them. I'm sure most are actually reasonable people.

Of course I know that there are good muslims, who just have their religions to find faith and inner peace, but a religion that brainwashes people into hating and possibly killing everything other than them shouldn't be allowed to excist.

The Qur'an does not instruct it's followers to go into the streets and kill those who contradict the doctrines of Islam. To get a rough idea, it states that you should fight oppression, which I'm sure Islamic terrorists believe themselves to be doing, whether you support their sentiments or not.

Obviously, killing innocent people because you feel threatened is not a reasonable thing to do, but do you honestly believe that Muslims do not see that as clearly as you do?

[Eternal Paradox]

Saw the film. It seemed to generalize all Muslims to act like the extremists. I don't see how Islam is any more dangerous than Christianity or any other religion.

All the film seemed to do was quote a few bad verses from the Koran. I could do the same with just about any other religion, and say they are bad too.

[Daemonius]

GDwarf, about 6% of the current Dutch population is muslim (1m of about 16m), and for Wilders to have as much support as he did with the last elections, he needed about 500,000 votes, whom pretty much all had bad experiences with muslims, which pretty much states that they've done enough already here. Now imagine another 500,000 voters from other parties who've had bad experiences with muslims...they've obviously abused the Dutch hospitality.

I do not take sides unless I'm forced to, and this is one such case.

[Razekial]

Originally Posted by Daemonius

GDwarf, about 6% of the current Dutch population is muslim (1m of about 16m), and for Wilders to have as much support as he did with the last elections, he needed about 500,000 votes, whom pretty much all had bad experiences with muslims, which pretty much states that they've done enough already here. Now imagine another 500,000 voters from other parties who've had bad experiences with muslims...they've obviously abused the Dutch hospitality.

I do not take sides unless I'm forced to, and this is one such case.

I don't see how you can say that every vote for him is a person who had a bad experience with someone of the Islamic faith.

In addition, if, hypothetically, every vote was a person who has had a bad experience with a Muslim, then would it be right to assume that someone opposing Christians would have won, because it is logical to say that there are more Christians than Muslims in Holland? Unless of course the Muslims in Holland are somehow involved in more disturbances than other people because of their religion. >>

Or did I misunderstand you?

[Daemonius]

Originally Posted by Eternal Paradox

Saw the film. It seemed to generalize all Muslims to act like the extremists. I don't see how Islam is any more dangerous than Christianity or any other religion.

All the film seemed to do was quote a few bad verses from the Koran. I could do the same with just about any other religion, and say they are bad too.

I know, and agree with it. The film was nothing special and just a bunch of stuff most people already knew (or so I assume).

Don't assume I also treat every muslim like they are a single entity, I have a bunch of moderated ones as some of my best friends, and all of them are against these kinds of terrorist attacks. Still, it bothers me that they still take everything anti-Islam as a personal insult.

But what else would you do if you're parents pretty much forced you to believe it?