Religion as Child Abuse?

[Eternal Paradox]

Creationists In Action, Preying on Children The Bad Idea Blog
YouTube - Jesus Camp 1 of 9
'Surviving 'Jesus Camp'' by Josh Timonen - RichardDawkins.net

The first link is the one I want you to see, since its short, the second is the Jesus Camp documentary, and the third link is a review of Jesus Camp.

My question is this, do you think teaching young kids to believe that any science or any point of view that doesn't conform with the Bible is child abuse?

They are teaching these kids that the Earth is 6000-10000 years old, that dinosaurs lived with man, that no animal before the fall ate meat, and that all the dinosaurs were killed during Noahs flood.

They are being taught to only follow the churches and Bibles viewpoint. Would you consider this child abuse, how would these kids deal with differing viewpoints when they grow older?

[Grevados]

What the hell...

Yes, this is very, very wrong. When these kids find out they've been lied to, they're going to turn away from religion.

I'm a Christian, but I'm not a radical. I'd teach my kids about God, but I wouldn't lie to them about things that have been proven with science to be true (i.e., the world being 6000 years old).

[Tazryl]

Response to Video One:

I have never thought of science and religon as conflicting things. I view science as a way to glimpse in how God does what he does. God created us in his image; yet it never says that we didnt evolve. Of course there is the whole Adam and Eve thing.

I always viewed evolution like a software upgrade. Gradually he 'updates' all of us living creatures to better adapt to life and the changing world. Sure you could say God created everything as is, which does not conflict with this thinking. Alright God created an animal slightly different then its kin.

I have no idea how the earth being billions of years old conflicts with the Christian Religon.
_____

Response to Video two:

Not a lot to say about this. Although I must comment one one thing. Towards the end, she wants the children to let the holy spirit enter their body... and speak tongues. You know I find it almost amusing how, atleast in the movies, 'speaking tongues' is a trait of being possessed.

But still... what does 'speaking tongues' have to do with anything? It was just more or less creepy. Although I did play around with the idea of her telling the children to speak some satanic chant instead of praying to Jesus.

____

The Article.

Now this just disturbed me in more way then one. I suppose its the idea that they can brainwash these children to do what they want. That quote that the Pastor said about Islam fundamentalist was what really scared me. It reminded me of how easily it is to manipulate people. What if they choose to do something very drastic? Maybe it wont be this group, but this clearly shows that it is completely possible for something like this to happen.

We already have a real life example and its the terrorists in the Middle East. As scary as that concept is; its scarier to consider that this could just as easily happen within our boarders.

From the way the writer of the article described the way that they would with out hesitation drink 'Special Kool-Aid' is not only mind blowing, but scares the hell out of me.

This may not be a good christian thought, but what religon can do scares the hell out of me.

[Dark Link]

I can't possibly see how what is essentially telling lies (for the most part) is considered child abuse. That's like saying teaching someone that the earth is flat is a form of abuse. That's just ignorance.

[Project 2501]

It can be, depending on how strictly said lies are enforced. If you drill a kid to think the Earth is flat and then send them to school, they're going to have a tough time because of what you taught them.

[Dark Link]

That's not abuse though. Just incorrect teachings.

[Project 2501]

I consider it abuse if you're doing something you know will make your kid's life more difficult. Parents are supposed to protect their kids by enabling them to deal with the world, not shutting them out from it.

[Dark Link]

Well, what if the parent thinks that they are right and everyone else is wrong?

[Project 2501]

Science and logic are the arbiters who is right and wrong. If they cannot support their views with facts, it doesn't matter how right they think they are. If their worldview is sufficiently screwed-up, I support the right for social services to remove children from said home. For example, there should not be an option for parents to take their children out of evolution or sex-ed seminars at school just because it runs contrary to their ideology. Such knowledge is vital for success in today's world, and it should be regarded as abuse to deliberately withhold it.

[Dark Link]

That still doesn't classify it as abusive.

"Abuse" is the wrong term to use here. "Neglect" would be better.

[Project 2501]

With respect to child-rearing, the two are synonymous by any sane definition.

[Dark Link]

If you can find me a definition of the word "abuse" where it is used in context to something along the lines as conflicting teachings, then I'll start accepting it as a term to use in the discussion.

The child doesn't really have a say in the matter, nor do, I, or anyone else. It's up to the parent. If they think it's right for their kid, then it's their choice. Of course, the child could have a say in the matter; but if he/she is forced, then what can they do?

You might as well argue against a parent who sends their kid to a reform school and say that because it doesn't fit with your standard of how a child should be raised, then it's somehow a form of abuse.

[Project 2501]

Originally Posted by Dark Link

If you can find me a definition of the word "abuse" where it is used in context to something along the lines as conflicting teachings, then I'll start accepting it as a term to use in the discussion.

The child doesn't really have a say in the matter, nor do, I, or anyone else. It's up to the parent. If they think it's right for their kid, then it's their choice. Of course, the child could have a say in the matter; but if he/she is forced, then what can they do?

You might as well argue against a parent who sends their kid to a reform school and say that because it doesn't fit with your standard of how a child should be raised, then it's somehow a form of abuse.

The rights of parents do not extend to poisoning the minds of their children; the child very well ought to have a say in the matter. They are sentient creatures and deserve the same basic human rights as any adult.

As for the kid who's sent to reform school, it depends on why they were sent. One of my friends was sent to military school not because he did anything wrong, but because of his insane parents (who I have personal experience with).

[Xaryus]

Project: there are certainly far far worse ways of being beaten, I would not go as far as to call this child abuse.

Okay. First things first, Lying to your kid is NOT child-abuse. Trust me... Abuse and Neglect are completely different, And this is NEITHER!

Now, I don't believe it is appropriate to lie to your children. Contradicting everything as such a young age. 'Brainwashing' them so to speak, Saying that there was 'no such thing as death' What BS is that. Also, Adam and Eve brought death into the world. Supposedly, Why would a creature that has lived that long 'fast' for no good reason. There was death already.

[IamNick]

Originally Posted by Project 2501

The rights of parents do not extend to poisoning the minds of their children; the child very well ought to have a say in the matter. They are sentient creatures and deserve the same basic human rights as any adult.

As for the kid who's sent to reform school, it depends on why they were sent. One of my friends was sent to military school not because he did anything wrong, but because of his insane parents (who I have personal experience with).

To say that the parents are poisoning the kid would be to say that the parents know they are lying to their kids.

[Eternal Paradox]

Originally Posted by Tazryl

Response to Video One:

I have never thought of science and religon as conflicting things. I view science as a way to glimpse in how God does what he does. God created us in his image; yet it never says that we didnt evolve. Of course there is the whole Adam and Eve thing.
____

Well, if you take the Bible literally then it would conflict with science.

Response to Video two:

Not a lot to say about this. Although I must comment one one thing. Towards the end, she wants the children to let the holy spirit enter their body... and speak tongues. You know I find it almost amusing how, atleast in the movies, 'speaking tongues' is a trait of being possessed.
.____

Well the second video is the first part of an hour and half documentary. I don't expect many people to watch, but it does give many more examples.

The Article.

Now this just disturbed me in more way then one. I suppose its the idea that they can brainwash these children to do what they want. That quote that the Pastor said about Islam fundamentalist was what really scared me. It reminded me of how easily it is to manipulate people. What if they choose to do something very drastic? Maybe it wont be this group, but this clearly shows that it is completely possible for something like this to happen.

Very scary indeed.

From the way the writer of the article described the way that they would with out hesitation drink 'Special Kool-Aid' is not only mind blowing, but scares the hell out of me.

This may not be a good christian thought, but what religon can do scares the hell out of me.

Same here.

Originally Posted by Xaryus

Now, I don't believe it is appropriate to lie to your children. Contradicting everything as such a young age. 'Brainwashing' them so to speak, Saying that there was 'no such thing as death' What BS is that. Also, Adam and Eve brought death into the world. Supposedly, Why would a creature that has lived that long 'fast' for no good reason. There was death already.

Would not brainwashing children be child abuse. To teach these children not to think for themselves, to let politicians, the church, etc. speak for you, is that not child abuse?

How would these kids respond, if they are taught that everything that contradicts the churches teachings are absolutely wrong and evil? How would these kids succeed in a world full of differing viewpoints, in a world where everything is not as simple as black and white?

Is not hampering these kids mental growth not child abuse?

[Project 2501]

I hate how people say the world isn't black and white. Either a proposition is true or it is false for a given set of parameters. People say the world exists in shades of gray because the potential circumstances are so numerous, but no matter how many variables you try to account for, your answer to a given problem is either the optimal answer or it is not.

[DarKnite92]

I'd say it's not abuse just crappy-parenting and ignorance.

[The LS]

I don't agree with speaking in "tongues", or any other nonsense, but it truly annoys me when people feel they have to get into peoples business when it comes to Christianity's view on science. Its their view, leave them alone.

I see no difference with Creationists "indoctrinating" kids, or the schools and museums with the Theory ( keyword there ) of evolution doing it. Both are advertising their ideas. These videos are using cheap scare-tatics, showing how backward and crazy all of Christianity. Yet the people they are showcasing are only a bit of the whole movement.

[DarKnite92]

Originally Posted by The LS

I don't agree with speaking in "tongues", or any other nonsense, but it truly annoys me when people feel they have to get into peoples business when it comes to Christianity's view on science. Its their view, leave them alone.

They don't leave everyone else alone, though.

[Nietzsche]

Originally Posted by The LS

I don't agree with speaking in "tongues", or any other nonsense, but it truly annoys me when people feel they have to get into peoples business when it comes to Christianity's view on science. Its their view, leave them alone.

I see no difference with Creationists "indoctrinating" kids, or the schools and museums with the Theory ( keyword there ) of evolution doing it. Both are advertising their ideas. These videos are using cheap scare-tatics, showing how backward and crazy all of Christianity. Yet the people they are showcasing are only a bit of the whole movement.

...

Do what? You mean their slander of the scientific process and the utter disregard for logic & reason is a fundamental element of "christian science"?

You know there's a reason these people aren't taken seriously by anyone in any self-respecting scientific community.

[MMKB]

Originally Posted by The LS

I don't agree with speaking in "tongues", or any other nonsense, but it truly annoys me when people feel they have to get into peoples business when it comes to Christianity's view on science. Its their view, leave them alone.

Science has no place for such postmodernism silliness. Your average Joe's view carries absolutely no weight when it comes to science.