Ending the series

Considering that the game series has (to my opinion) taken a nose dive in style, difficulty, depth of plot and many other things I think that if Nintendo can't make the series rise to it's old glory it might be better to end it. I hate to say that because I want new Zelda games that are good but looking at thing now makes me think it's never going to happen again. Let's just see what the new Zelda for Wii is like and judge the situation then. I have no high hopes for ST for being more than cute and entertaining like PH and MC. I like them both but they don't have the depth that other Zelda games have. Even Gameboy Zeldas have had greater depth in the old days like LA or the Oracle games. But none the less things are looking kind of bleak for the future of Zelda. I keep wishing that this would not be the end, but it's better to finish thing with glory than try keeping it alive with forced ideas. And we are unfortunately already past that "finish with glory"-part so it mostly comes down to the new Wii game and how it fares.

TP didn't have plot depth? What game did! TP was the most story driven Zelda in the entire series!

Zelda should end when Miyamoto either retires or dies

Yes, I agree. Aonuma and whomever would be to step forward after that could not have as creative ideas as Miyamoto.

How old is miyamoto anyway?

How old is miyamoto anyway?

56. 57 after November 16.

Okay let me see here... considering he's Asian and they generally have a longer life span than other races and also taking into account the fact that he's been such a big part of Nintendo and probably won't ever quit...we'll most likely have Zelda around for another thirty-five to forty years. This should be enough to make about...they'll probably be somewhere in the thirties if they quit when Miyamoto dies.

Oh yeah, I would say we still have a good thirty-forty years of the Zelda series before then.

It'll end when it stops making money. If Miyamoto's dead before then, expect Aonuma to take over.

I loathe that day.

Originally Posted by Link_I_Gannon

I loathe that day.

Why? Miyamoto is only holding Aonuma back. FSA had a much deeper plot before Miyamoto stepped in. Not to mention Aonuma has been the producer since MM, Miyamoto just supervises.

Also, claiming no one can be as creative as the original creator is ignorant. Look what Retro Studios did with Metroid. Please let the rumors that they were working on ZWii before Miyamoto stepped in are true.

claiming no one can be as creative as the original creator is ignorant.

How so? Ever since Aonuma came in, we've had this cartoon-Link. I think that it makes the Zelda series more childish than it was intended to be in the beginning. As far as I have seen it, the Zelda series has been trailing off since Aonuma. Of course, set aside Twilight Princess for the receding sentence. However, still, I think that the gameplay and the graphics (besides Twilight Princess) has been changed for the worse.

Look what Retro Studios did with Metroid.

I am not a fan of Retroid. Also, this is not a Retroid forum, therefore I will not discuss anything else about that retarded (Retroided) game series.

You think Aonuma is ruining the series, yet judging by your avatar, you like MM. That was the first game that Aonuma produced in Miyamoto's place. No Miyamoto, no MM.

Originally Posted by Link_I_Gannon

How so? Ever since Aonuma came in, we've had this cartoon-Link. I think that it makes the Zelda series more childish than it was intended to be in the beginning.

*facepalm*

cel-shaded=/=childish. Plus it seems like it was Miyamoto's choice since he said he was basing it of of OoX's artwork.

Originally Posted by Link_I_Gannon

As far as I have seen it, the Zelda series has been trailing off since Aonuma. Of course, set aside Twilight Princess for the receding sentence. However, still, I think that the gameplay and the graphics (besides Twilight Princess) has been changed for the worse.

Aonuma making TP is the fault of Americans like you. He was making TWW 2, but scrapped it for TP using OoT as a base bacause of "ZOMG! TWW SUX MOAR OOT!"

Originally Posted by Link_I_Gannon

I am not a fan of Retroid. Also, this is not a Retroid forum, therefore I will not discuss anything else about that retarded (Retroided) game series.

*double facepalm*

Take a good look at the main index. You see all those forums under the crappy Zelda ones? This is not a Zelda only forum.

Originally Posted by Triforce of the Gods

Aonuma making TP is the fault of Americans like you. He was making TWW 2, but scrapped it for TP using OoT as a base bacause of "ZOMG! TWW SUX MOAR OOT!"

That makes very little sense. If they wanted to stop using cel-shading because of a western audience, why have their been several games in the series released since with similar art styles? Not to mention despite lots of complaints in certain fan circles (mainly before it was even released), Wind Waker was pretty well recieved.

Originally Posted by Link_I_Gannon

How so? Ever since Aonuma came in, we've had this cartoon-Link. I think that it makes the Zelda series more childish than it was intended to be in the beginning. As far as I have seen it, the Zelda series has been trailing off since Aonuma. Of course, set aside Twilight Princess for the receding sentence. However, still, I think that the gameplay and the graphics (besides Twilight Princess) has been changed for the worse.

Yep, everything he touches is stupid and kiddy except for the in every way divine experience commonly referred to as Twilight Princess. I'm sure Aonuma had absolutely nothing to do with Majora's Mask.

And Wind Waker's cartoon art style? Totally Aonuma's doing. Miyamoto is famously known to have almost fired Aonuma for that decision.

Originally Posted by Mandrag

Yep, everything he touches is stupid and kiddy except for the in every way divine experience commonly referred to as Twilight Princess. I'm sure Aonuma had absolutely nothing to do with Majora's Mask.

I hope your being sarcastic here. Yes Aonuma did have a lot to do with MM. It was his first game where he took over for Miyamoto. Miyamoto was the one that had very little to do with it.

Originally Posted by Mandrag

And Wind Waker's cartoon art style? Totally Aonuma's doing. Miyamoto is famously known to have almost fired Aonuma for that decision.

LOL! Source?

@JoGoron: I'm just saying what Aonuma said himself.

the first game that Aonuma produced in Miyamoto's place. No Miyamoto, no MM.

Oh, well then...I guess much like Twilight Princess, he he managed to make a decent (Awesome) game.
I will also admit that Majora's Mask is my second favourite and Twilight Princess is in third on my list. Both of those were pretty solid games, gameplay-wise and story-wise. So I admit, aside from the cel-sheded games, Aonuma does a pretty good job.

If they wanted to stop using cel-shading because of a western audience, why have their been several games in the series released since with similar art styles? Not to mention despite lots of complaints in certain fan circles (mainly before it was even released), Wind Waker was pretty well recieved.

Yes. This is true.

Yep, everything he touches is stupid and kiddy except for the in every way divine experience commonly referred to as Twilight Princess. I'm sure Aonuma had absolutely nothing to do with Majora's Mask.

I still don't think Twilight Princess was as good as Ocarina of Time or Majora's Mask; they were reallygood games in their time graphically and story-wise/gameplay-wise they are superior. Anyway, I looked it up, and Aonuma was one of the Designers for Majora's Mask. That was the only role he played in Majora's Mask. However, I still think the entire team did a wonderful job on Majora's Mask.

And Wind Waker's cartoon art style? Totally Aonuma's doing. Miyamoto is famously known to have almost fired Aonuma for that decision.

This sounds interesting. Can you provide me a link to a website with a story on this? I would very much like to see that.

If one more person says cel-shading means is childish and kiddy, then I'm done. I'm not going to argue with 13 year old boys so insecure in their masculinity that they need to play realistic style games with lost of gore and blood to feel manly.

Originally Posted by Triforce of the Gods

@JoGoron: I'm just saying what Aonuma said himself.

I had to dig through a big box of old magazines for this, but here you go:

Miyamoto:In developing Wind Waker, we knew we were going to develop a game featuring Link as a young boy, so we tried to choose the right style for portraying that. We tried many different experiments. The ultimate decision we came to was that the cel-shading in The Wind Waker was the best option for expressing that. We also wanted to create a very unique game world on Gamecube.

But since then, we've been left with a very big question. that was, what are we going to do when we decide to make Link a teenager again - a 16 year old Link? so after The Wind Waker we tried several different models and made varied versions of them. Ultimately we decided that, in showing a teenage Link, really the best style of expressing him would be something that's closer to our graphical style in Ocarina of Time

So Miyamoto hated the style of Wind Waker, huh?

If one more person says cel-shading means is childish and kiddy, then I'm done. I'm not going to argue with 13 year old boys so insecure in their masculinity that they need to play realistic style games with lost of gore and blood to feel manly.

I am not exactly what you would call manly. I like the seriousness of a game, I tend to defer from games that are just all-nonsense and comic-relief. I tend to look at the seriousness of the story when I play Zelda, it is not an attempt to appear "manly" but rather the fact that I am a serious person. I can't say the same for our friend, Mandrag.

If you want to talk about being secure in masculinity and get this thread locked, then go ahead. However, it would be a vein attempt.

By the way, thanks for the quote, JoGoron. It seems that Mandrag couldn't come up with the evidence that Triforce of the Gods and I were asking for.

As for the proof that Aonuma gave up on TWW 2 in favor of TP:

The company found that Wind Waker's cartoon-like graphics were alienating the lucrative teen audience in North America, who would look at games of that style and think they were for kids, he continued. With the Japanese market in the midst of the dreaded gamer drift, and the North American market much stronger, Nintendo decided to give the US what it wanted--a realistic Zelda. He said, "We had to make a game that met expectations of fans in North America. If it didn't, it could mean the end of the franchise."

http://www.gamespot.com/news/6167134.html