Zelda Bosses too short and easy?

Originally Posted by Hylian Dan

One big problem is that the bosses are nothing more than cool-looking monsters. There's no emotion attached to the monsters, no storytelling that enhances the battles. Two exceptions to this are OoT's Twinrova and TP's Blizzeta. Or remember the battle in Oracle of Ages that had you fighting possessed Nayru, trying to force Veran out of her body? Imagine if half of a Zelda game's boss battles had that kind of significance attached to them, instead of just being monsters.

Another big thing that could help is having the player fight one of the main villains of the game relatively early on, before the player feels prepared to confront them. Like fighting the Helmaroc King in TWW maybe, or battling Zant immediately after Lakebed Temple. They don't necessarily need to be killed/removed from the plot at such early points, but just facing them that early could feel more intense than facing them at the end of the game, when you want a big scary challenge and they might not deliver.

Another idea I have is not limiting a boss monster to one chamber. So, say you're in a dungeon with the atmosphere of OoT's well, and the boss monster is a giant spider. But the spider isn't waiting in one room - it's wandering about the dungeon freely. Until you find a certain item or achieve a certain goal, it overpowers you every time you run into it.

I agree with you 100% on those issues. If the monster was more than a big scary monster, then I'd love the bosses so much more even if they were still easy. I was so into the story of TP's Blizzeta. Even though I still thought the battle was pretty easy, there was still this feeling I loved when you actually know who you're fighting (Other than Ganon). Closest to those are usually the final boss battles like Ganon, Majora, and Vaati, but that's just a given.

That'd be pretty fun to fight major bosses early on. Even though I think the whole point of those fights is to die, it'd be giving you a taste of how powerful he is. I mean, you can't tell a whole lot about how hard the final boss is just by watching some scenes of the final boss being all evil.

The last idea would probably scare me, though. If I was trying to solve a puzzle and this huge boss comes out of nowhere to attack me, I'd probably pee myself. When you're all focused like that, you'd get frightened at any disturbances. But an alternative to that is giving the boss a purpose of being in the certain boss room. Some bosses have a purpose for being in the room, such as WW's Gohdan, where he's the final test in the Tower of Gods. But some just happen to be...there.

One good idea would be like what MP3 had: you know that the boss is coming, but it stays just out of your sight. It builds suspense.

Hylian Dan and PyroShadow make good points.

In OoA you have that one boss that is made out of stone. Is it the 7 or 8 boss in the game? I gave up for a long time because that was hard. Eventually I got through it (had to use walkthrough to know what to do in it and even that didn't help much) and never want to go at it again.

It's true that ever since the series went 3D the games have been ridiculously easy. Not much challenge there any more. In MM you get length to the boss battle in Goth but it's not hard just longer because you have to chase it or just stand still and use fire arrows. Annoying but easy. Of course you can have the harder battle with Majora's Mask if you don't use Oni-Link, but even then (with only 14 hearts) it wasn't that bad when you had potions.

In TP especially the Dekutoad (Lakebed Temple mini-boss) was a huge disappointment because it was too easy. Not one boss (Ganondorf including) was difficult. Okay the horseback battle was annoying because you would get knocked of your horse but not that bad that you would call it difficult or hard, just annoying.

Games aren't what they used to be and that's a shame. I don't mean we have to go back to those super hard games in the 8-bit times but at least make an effort in the games we have today.

I do agree that a few of the Zelda bosses are pretty easy. But I just love the bosses period. All the creativity put into every one. Also almost every one of them has a unique way of defeating them I love it!

I think WW and TP boses were made more so for eye-candy. which, i agree that they were wayyyyy to easy, the graphics were beautiful.

oh, and in WW, they did make it somewhat difficult if you were attempting to get pictures of the boses. Puppet Ganon was a jerk-face to beat. jeez.

I like the bosses that come after you, instead of ignoring you until you get close.

Not really
I like to analyze my target before attacking it

the bosses in Zelda games are not supose to be hard and undefeatable. but they could be a little harder then they currently are like Stallord was in TP

Originally Posted by Craymel

The only boss I really had trouble with was in wind waker. It was puppet ganon I had such a hard freaking time aiming at that stupid crystal thing.

Same here! Argh! The 3rd time play it he was easy. 2nd time playing through he killed me the first time.

Zant took me a while. But that's kinda how it was set up. The thing is once you know what to do it's 3 hits (maybe 5) and you're done. It's like that in all video games. Maybe they have a 2nd faze, but never have I seen a boss battle go on a long time because the boss had massive health. Which does annoy me.

Originally Posted by Gerudude

Well, I'd say the boses in WW are even easier than the ones in OoT. When you get in the big group fight when the enemies come back alive in Hyrule Castle they even slash in on eachother as you're fighting them. The battle programmers must have realised this because this is no longer the case in TP.
If you want a tough enemie, try fighting 2 or 3 new type darknuts in that game.

I felt they did that to make the game feel more realistic. What makes the hyrule castle part easy is being able to lead off stray enemies and beat them one by one. You're never forced into battle with a whole mess of monsters at once. You should have been.

I never needed any kind of healing in TP, but on Gyorg, I needed 2 fairies and then beat him with a quarter-heart left. Did the same against Bongo Bongo but with one fairy.

I think the problem with bosses, is that once you figure out the method to beating it, that method doesn't change and it's usually easy to pull off.

I hope in the future, the bosses are harder, where every time you hit them they switch phases, from attack method, to how you damage them(many of the hard bosses like ganon, Puppet ganon and stallord are hard because they change phases and become harder to hit every time you do hit them) And possibly use a variety of weapons, instead of just the one you get in the dungeon.

The bosses in are easier in 3D because there is the third way to move to. U don't panic like u do in 2D.

Zelda bosses have always been easy.

Originally Posted by OSM

Zelda bosses have always been easy.

I'm guessing you started with Ocarina of Time. Because the first 4 games' bosses were a hell of a lot harder than the rest of the series'.

Originally Posted by HypeCyber

I think the problem with bosses, is that once you figure out the method to beating it, that method doesn't change and it's usually easy to pull off.

I hope in the future, the bosses are harder, where every time you hit them they switch phases, from attack method, to how you damage them(many of the hard bosses like ganon, Puppet ganon and stallord are hard because they change phases and become harder to hit every time you do hit them) And possibly use a variety of weapons, instead of just the one you get in the dungeon.

I think the problem is that there is such a focus on there being a method to defeat the bosses. I really hate how almost all of the bosses now have stunned phases as the only times you're able to damage them. I would really like to see a return to MM style bosses, which emphasize combat over process. They weren't about solving a puzzle that tries to attack you, and then doing the same thing two more times. They were monsters that actually tried to kill you, and they become more and more hostile as they run out of HP.

The emphasis on the bosses' stun phase is the big problem in newer games. The boss battles ought to emphasize combat and focus less on process.

I'd rather Zelda take the Metroid approach to boss battles. In Metroid Prime, bosses do have a weakpoint, and they also have to be "solved" like puzzles; however, there is still a strong combat element to them. Unlike Zelda where bosses don't just protect their weakpoint, they actually try to kill you in Metroid. They are aggressive, powerful, and they require quite a bit of strategy and timing to defeat. The puzzle element to them only adds to the intensity since you'll have to "solve" them before you can deal any damage--that can be intense when you are taken a ton of damage in the mean time. In addition to that, the puzzle element also allows for unique and varied ways a defeating the many bosses.

The Zelda boss battles are just glorified puzzles now. They aren't even a threat.

Yes, I agree that the bosses are too easy. I need & want a challenge!

Originally Posted by Hylian Dan

I think the problem is that there is such a focus on there being a method to defeat the bosses. I really hate how almost all of the bosses now have stunned phases as the only times you're able to damage them. I would really like to see a return to MM style bosses, which emphasize combat over process. They weren't about solving a puzzle that tries to attack you, and then doing the same thing two more times. They were monsters that actually tried to kill you, and they become more and more hostile as they run out of HP.

The emphasis on the bosses' stun phase is the big problem in newer games. The boss battles ought to emphasize combat and focus less on process.

I agree with all of this, I really loved MM's bosses.

Oh, and quick note when I said "Phases" I was talking about things like the bosses going into different forms as a result of the player hitting them(puppet ganon's pig/spider/serpent forms for example), not stunned phases.

Originally Posted by HypeCyber

I agree with all of this, I really loved MM's bosses.

Oh, and quick note when I said "Phases" I was talking about things like the bosses going into different forms as a result of the player hitting them(puppet ganon's pig/spider/serpent forms for example), not stunned phases.

Oh, oops. I understood what you meant by "phases," I guess my use of the same word was kind of awkward. Didn't mean to sound like I was criticizing that point.

Originally Posted by Kee Something

I'd rather Zelda take the Metroid approach to boss battles. In Metroid Prime, bosses do have a weakpoint, and they also have to be "solved" like puzzles; however, there is still a strong combat element to them. Unlike Zelda where bosses don't just protect their weakpoint, they actually try to kill you in Metroid. They are aggressive, powerful, and they require quite a bit of strategy and timing to defeat. The puzzle element to them only adds to the intensity since you'll have to "solve" them before you can deal any damage--that can be intense when you are taken a ton of damage in the mean time. In addition to that, the puzzle element also allows for unique and varied ways a defeating the many bosses.

I thought Corruption had a particularly strong set of bosses, particularly its first one. Something Zelda could learn from them is that they pretty much assume the player is going to take tons and tons of damage. The attacks are designed so that player really has to focus and stay on their feet to avoid them. There are ways to avoid the attacks, but the player may not learn these methods the first several times.

Then staying alive becomes a continuous balancing act. Taking damage is okay, but you need to make sure you're making a constant effort to regain health as the battle goes on, and you want to deal tons of damage even if it costs you. In Zelda it's usually just "Crap, he managed to hit me that time and take away a heart. I'll just grab these five recovery hearts that appeared here..."

The Zelda bosses just plain aren't aggressive. Their attacks are too nice to the player, coming at a slow pace and always being simple to avoid.

For those that perhaps played Kingdom Hearts 2, I think Sephiroth was just tedious and overly powerful. Making a boss be that strong would be a good challenge. Adding focus to a boss battle instead of just procedures, like the
cliche:

1.Avoid attacks
2.Stun the enemy in some way
3.Attack the enemy
4. repeat 'til dead

...would create suspense in the state of mind that the boss would conclude in massive hits that take away a quarter of your health. I think it would be better if they made the bosses longer and overall stronger. Make it so that the you have to prepare yourself and stand (or sit) at the tip of your toes to watch every single tiny move your enemy makes to make sure you don't die.