The Oracles: Zelda: Was she aware, or not all there?

Before I played the Oracles I had formed a timeline theory, one that stated that the Link and Zelda from the Oracles were the same two from OoT. The first thing that was fired at this idea, at the co-writer of this theory on another forum, was the so-called fact that Zelda doesn't even recognize Link in the Oracles let alone know him. So from this the co-writer, who hadn't played the Oracles come to find out, came up with the idea that Zelda was brainwashed by the witches Komue and Kotake just as Nabooru was.
I hadn't played those kiddy Zelda games either so I didn't know what was what, I just assumed this other guy did and the MLT’ers that were blasting him were being honest and bringing up hard fact. So I just accepted the idea because it seemed logical.
So that Zelda wouldn't resist, the witches brainwashed her as they had done (well actually as they would have done, since the OoT future didn't exist, except for when it did to Link, Navi and Ganondorf) with Nabooru in OoT. This would ensure that she put up no fight or struggle and she would be an easy lamb to sacrifice. Ha ha ha, that is a pretty good piece of fanfic, but anyway, after having this issue brought to my full attention on the Nintendo.com boards of all places, I have concluded on my own idea.
I have recently obtained the ROMs to each of the Oracles, and despite a very frustrating start because of the codes being randomly chosen and me not making a save state to "set them in stone" so to speak, resulting in a loss of the secrets in the game linking ability, I have played Oracle of Seasons and most of Oracle of Ages with Seasons as the game that I based the Ages file off of.
I have played through the part where Link saves Zelda from the demon and up to the point after Jabu, and all I have to say is.....

What the hell were those MLT'ers talking about?

That's right, if you haven't guessed I have changed my version of the One Link Theory. Zelda was not brainwashed. She was Zelda. Untouched, unaffected, and NOT unaware. She knew everything that was going on at the time. She traveled to that land to do something about the evil. She was captured by the demon, and saved by Link.
Now since I still call this theory the “One Link Theory” I'm sure you've already guessed that I believe Zelda knew Link in the Oracles. This is what Zelda says: “My name is Zelda. You are Link right? I knew it at first glance.” She formally states her name and then identifies Link immediately saying that she knew it as soon as she saw him.
Wow, am I ever glad that I didn’t take an MLT’er’s word for it! HA! What was once thought to be a minor point against the theory now comes up to be the strongest point for the theory.
Ah, God bless the people that created emulation. I got to learn the Zelda storyline without paying a dime. Life is great.
Now keep in mind that my theory may still change slightly since I haven’t beaten Ganon just yet and I haven’t played the games in a reverse order. So I’ll update any revisions to the Oracle part of the One Link Theory in this topic.
So if anyone would like to contribute anything to this, comment on my discovery, warn me of any more MLT’er fabrications, give a heads up on what to expect or pay attention to, or just shoot the breeze about the Oracle games, feel free to post because your input is always appreciated.
L is real

You've got a pretty good point... however it appears that in the end of the Oracles, Ganon is *resurrected* and then slain by Link. I know, I'm sort of with the 'One Link' theory, so I believe that the OoS/OoA Link is the OoT Link.

From what I hear Ganon dies, but I'll have to play that part to see what happens. I hear a lot of things that turn out to not be true though, so I'm not too worried about it.
Komue and Kotake are always saying that the Evil King will "return" and that they will revive him, but I don't think they say anything about "resurrecting" Ganon. The only one that does say that is Zelda, and that's after she calls it a "revival" twice.
That part of the theory still stays the same for now.
L is real

I'm pretty sure that the Oracle games feature a different Zelda / Link than the N64 titles. After all, the Impa in Ocarina of Time achieved sagehood, and so isn't around anymore, so the Impa in the Oracle games is probably a different one (after all, she introduces herself to Link as well).

And the 'One Link Theory' is incredibly easy to disprove. All I have to point out is that the Link in The Wind Waker is absolutely not the Link from Ocarina of Time. Plus, why would Link start out most of his adventures without little to no equipment if it was always the same Link? Wouldn't he have brought along his hookshot at some point?

As for Ganon, (SPOILER SPOILER SPOILER OMG THE SPOILER), here are Zelda's exact words on the subject:

Originally posted by Zelda
Thank you, Link. You halted the completition of the rites that would have revived Ganon! Since they could not sacrifice me in their final rite, the powers of darkness could only revive a mindless, raging Ganon. Your power, wisdom and courage were able to prevent Twinrova's plan to resurrect Ganon.

It probably wasn't the Ganon we all know and love, so it's okay that Link offed him.

Moved to GameBoy Zelda.

:rolleyes: That's not what you say to someone you know. That is the wording of someone meeting someone else for the first time. That is very obviously indicating that she;s never met him before.

I don't walk up to my best friend and say "Hi, you're Sam right? I knew it at first glance." And neither does anyone else with even an ounce of intelligence. In fact, I don't greet ANYONE I already know like that.

That is the sort of thing I'd say to someone who has been described to me, or who I think I know who it is based off of some other information... but who I have not yet met.

You're stretching, Luigi 64. Like with the rest of your fanfic... it's all on big stretch, filled with foolish assumptions, and interpretations that obviously differ from what you're supposed to get.

OoT actually both proves *and* disproves the theory that Impa is no more in the world. As we know, she becomes a sage when Link is an *adult*, but when Ganon is sent into the Sacred Realm, Link is sent back to his own time, and a theory has been produced by me, that when Link returns, it is a day *after* he pulled the sword, and the world has just awoken from Ganondorf's strike, and is already started to fall into his fingers while he searches for Zelda, and so having the rest of the games (Save TWW and ALttP) with Link I in them would be something that he did while *waiting* for his adulthood to come, and while waiting, he actually makes his Adult adventure more simpler, and that gives him a greater victory.

So it *is* possible for Impa to have been in the rest of the stories with Link I in them, because it would be during this time that Impa is not the sage. It is possible that the reason why she is not with Zelda, is possibly due to the fact that she is already in hiding, save until Zelda is kidnapped by Twinrova who attempt to release an evil being, and in my theory *not* Ganon (my theory for having ALttP set in different times and different stories exploits that the villain of the other version of ALttP is the monster that Twinrova whishes to release). It is also possible that the lands that LInk goes through in the original LoZ and in AoL were *not* Hyrule. They were only named Hyrule for the game's sake, but for other purposes they don't really have to be Hyrule to each his own. One person might call the LoZ country Gaigar and the AoL country Feador, or another might come up with different names-- there are billions of people in the world with different theories and ideas, and some might thinkt he same, while others go on their own steam.

There *is* possibility. There *is*.

-Tenial.

Mario: I'm pretty sure that the Oracle games feature a different Zelda / Link than the N64 titles. After all, the Impa in Ocarina of Time achieved sagehood, and so isn't around anymore, so the Impa in the Oracle games is probably a different one (after all, she introduces herself to Link as well).

L64: Right but in Oracles she was possesed by Veran when she introduced herself, so it was basically Veran reading Impa's thoughts and introducing someone to someone else that she didn't know.

Mario: And the 'One Link Theory' is incredibly easy to disprove. All I have to point out is that the Link in The Wind Waker is absolutely not the Link from Ocarina of Time.

L64: Fine, just prove that Wind Waker exists. Since it takes place in the alternate timeline of OoT, it and the rest of the timeline was erased in OoT, so therefore there is still one Link. I'll post a link to my evidence of the timeline not existing if you'd like to discuss that.

Mario: Plus, why would Link start out most of his adventures without little to no equipment if it was always the same Link? Wouldn't he have brought along his hookshot at some point?

L64: In OoT most of his items were lost, since in time's eye he never obtained them. But things like the Boomerang were kept yet he didn't have it in MM. Why does Link go back to three hearts in MM? Why does Link leave the Magic Rod and Skelleton Key behind when he sets out in AoL? The reason is because it's a new game, and the object of the game would be ruined if the player started with all of the items.

Mario: As for Ganon, (SPOILER SPOILER SPOILER OMG THE SPOILER), here are Zelda's exact words on the subject:
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Zelda
Thank you, Link. You halted the completition of the rites that would have revived Ganon! Since they could not sacrifice me in their final rite, the powers of darkness could only revive a mindless, raging Ganon. Your power, wisdom and courage were able to prevent Twinrova's plan to resurrect Ganon.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

It probably wasn't the Ganon we all know and love, so it's okay that Link offed him.

L64: The facts that Komue and Kotake are there, show that they know Link, and are there to bring Ganon back prove that it's the same Link and Ganon. Zelda may have said "ressurect" but she used it in a meaning that it was to bring Ganon back from "something". While we usually relate the word to death, that word also means to release from a tomb or coffin. The Sages Seal over him and the void acted as that tomb.

lord-of-shadow: That's not what you say to someone you know. That is the wording of someone meeting someone else for the first time. That is very obviously indicating that she;s never met him before.

I don't walk up to my best friend and say "Hi, you're Sam right? I knew it at first glance." And neither does anyone else with even an ounce of intelligence. In fact, I don't greet ANYONE I already know like that.

L64: But remember, this is like 4 or 5 years after their goodbyes in MM. She was just showing Link that she still remembered him after all that time.

lord-of-shadow: That is the sort of thing I'd say to someone who has been described to me, or who I think I know who it is based off of some other information... but who I have not yet met.

L64: What about someone you saw years later as an older and different looking version of the one you met when you and this person were kids?

lord-of-shadow: You're stretching, Luigi 64. Like with the rest of your fanfic... it's all on big stretch, filled with foolish assumptions, and interpretations that obviously differ from what you're supposed to get.

L64: How is, "You're Link aren't you? I knew it at first glance" any kind of stretch? That is just stating the quote. She knew it was Link at first glance.

Tenial: OoT actually both proves *and* disproves the theory that Impa is no more in the world. As we know, she becomes a sage when Link is an *adult*, but when Ganon is sent into the Sacred Realm, Link is sent back to his own time, and a theory has been produced by me, that when Link returns, it is a day *after* he pulled the sword, and the world has just awoken from Ganondorf's strike, and is already started to fall into his fingers while he searches for Zelda, and so having the rest of the games (Save TWW and ALttP) with Link I in them would be something that he did while *waiting* for his adulthood to come, and while waiting, he actually makes his Adult adventure more simpler, and that gives him a greater victory.

L64: But Ganondorf isn't in Hyrule after OoT's present and Zelda is back in the castle safe and sound. Plus, some things in the future cannot come to pass until things are changed in the present. So this is proof that Link's actions don't exist before he went back in time to make them, he must go back and do them first in order for them to exist in the future. Predestined events like the well in OoT are another case. Those are cases where the effects of one's actions preceed the action itself, or are the cause of the action.
Unfortunately, this cannot be the case with OoT as stated by your theory. For numerous reasons, which I can't say off the top of my head right now, your theory wouldn't work and one example of this is the Triforce of Courage. At the end of OoT Link had the Triforce of Courage, and if it split when he left for Termina then Ganondorf would have been able to track those shards down within those seven years. Also, WW's backstory would be wrong since the people recall him departing for another land AFTER he defeated the evil that rose to conquer Hyrule. If they were talking about the young Link, then it would have been before he defeated Ganondorf since it would be at the start of the seven year reign of Ganondorf.

Tenial: So it *is* possible for Impa to have been in the rest of the stories with Link I in them, because it would be during this time that Impa is not the sage.

L64: Oh right, Impa. Yeah, Impa may not have become a Sage in the present timeline or perhaps the Sages awakened earlier, since the only reason they did not in OoT was because Ganondorf was using his evil to block the awakening call.

Tenial: It is possible that the reason why she is not with Zelda, is possibly due to the fact that she is already in hiding, save until Zelda is kidnapped by Twinrova who attempt to release an evil being, and in my theory *not* Ganon (my theory for having ALttP set in different times and different stories exploits that the villain of the other version of ALttP is the monster that Twinrova whishes to release).

L64: Yes another issue is the Twinrova sisters. Now if this were one timeline all the way through and it was destiney that they live to keep control of Nabooru and fight Link in the future, then how is it that they are alive in the Oracles to revive Ganon? Also, how is it that they both die in the Oracles before their meeting with Link in the future? This has to take place before the future OoT because if it took place after, then they would both be dead.

Tenial: It is also possible that the lands that LInk goes through in the original LoZ and in AoL were *not* Hyrule. They were only named Hyrule for the game's sake, but for other purposes they don't really have to be Hyrule to each his own. One person might call the LoZ country Gaigar and the AoL country Feador, or another might come up with different names-- there are billions of people in the world with different theories and ideas, and some might thinkt he same, while others go on their own steam.

L64: The land in LoZ is Hyrule but is not any region of any other game in the series, except maybe in the Spectacle Rock region. AoL is north of Hyrule's central region and runs along the Death Mountain line, which splits off and expands north.
L is real

I give up. You're obvious refusing listen to anything I say, or admit you could possibly be wrong. You and Mike Peters, assuming you're different people... utterly infuriating. I don't even mind your theory much, it's just the way you present it, and your attitudes in general. Be thankful I'd lose my position if I banned you over it.

Fine then. Preach it all you want, I won't bother you. Anyone foolish enough to listen to you deserves it.

Hey man I'm just trying to bring up a good conversation. I'm trying my hardest to walk on eggshells around you because I know you don't like the theory to begin with. I'm trying to be as respectful as I can, so please don't compare me to Mike Peters. That guy was a pompus ass and I'm the one that wants to hear what you have to say.
Now I only asked a question, if you met someone at age ten, then met them again at age 15, wouldn't you engage in the conversation more delicately at first to be sure that you both know and would recognize each other? Well this is what I think Zelda did, with her proper upbringging.
I am dropping the "brainwashed fanfic" that you seem so irritated by, so can't you at least give this discussion a chance?
L is real

Luigi 64, your theories are so full of flaws, I don't know where to begin. It might be prudent at this point to go straight through the games and show you just why it can't be the same Link throughout (in addition to my own memory of the game stories, much of this information is gleaned from the game manuals, found in the Prologue sections on ZU's respective game pages):

Legend of Zelda (NES): Link is a young lad starting out on his first adventure ever. It is here that he first meets Impa, who asks him to defeat the evil Ganon and rescue the princess Zelda from imprisonment. It should be noted that he starts this adventure with nothing but a shield; the old man equips him with a sword for protection. Long story short, Link collects the Triforce pieces, defeats Ganon, frees Zelda, and does it again in Second Quest. ^_^

Zelda II: The Adventure of Link (NES): This game is a direct sequel to the original. The fact that it mentions Link having defeated Ganon (it should be noted that Ganon was actually killed at the end of Zelda I, and not banished to other realms like in most games. Zelda II, therefore, must be the last game in the series' chronology) proves that this is indeed the same Link from the first game. He also comes pre-equipped with the magical sword and magical shield, carried over from Zelda I. So far your theory looks good.

Here's where the flaws in your logic become more prominent.

Legend of Zelda: A Link to the Past (SNES): Since Ganon turns out to be a prominent baddie in this game, we know it cannot possibly take place after either ZI or ZII (he's perma-dead after those games, remember). So where in your One Link chronology does this game go? Link is a young man who has never experienced combat. Also: HE DOESN'T KNOW ZELDA, AND ZELDA DOESN'T KNOW HIM. Check this out, straight from the pages of the manual (courtesy of ZU):

A Link to the Past manual excerpt:
One night, a girl's voice awakens you from your sleep.

...This is a night like no other. Who is Zelda? Where had your uncle gone and for what reason?

(my emphasis)

It seems to me like he is unfamiliar with this Zelda person. Conclusion: This is a different Link than the one in ZI and ZII.

Want more proof? A Link to the Past's manual also goes into plenty of detail about the Imprisoning War. Check out this page for more details, but suffice to say, it talks about how Ganon was imprisoned in the Golden Land by the seven Wise Men. This event occured (are you ready?) SEVERAL CENTURIES before the events in ALttP. But when you play Ocarina of Time on the N64, you may notice something of interest. At the end of the game, Ganon is imprisoned in the Sacred Realm by the seven sages. Does that sound familiar to you? In case you haven't figured it out, OoT was, in fact, the events of the Imprisoning War.

And there's where whatever was left of your One Link Theory completely falls apart. Since Link played a pretty major role in OoT, and therefore in the Imprisoning War, there's no way that the same guy would live on for several hundred years to play a pretty major role in ALttP. After only looking at only four Zelda games, I count at least three Links. Final conclusion: you're completely friggin' wrong.

Zelda Universe's timeline figures there to be four Links, but I personally believe there to be five:

-Link I, from Ocarina of Time & Majora's Mask
-Link II, from The Wind Waker, The Wind Waker 2, Four Swords & Four Swords Adventures (Link II seems to hold the record for starring in the most games)
-Link III, from A Link to the Past
-Link IV, from Oracles of Ages / Seasons and Link's Awakening (this is where my opinions differ with those of ZU's timeline theory; some day I'll detail my own timeline theory, but to summarize my reasoning, Zelda didn't seem to have any prior knowledge of Link in the Oracle games, so they couldn't be the same people from ALttP)
-Link V, from Legend of Zelda and The Adventure of Link

And that's what I have to say about that. Unless you have some detail I might have missed?

EDIT: lord-of-shadow, why was this thread moved to GameBoy Zelda? From the start it's been a timeline theory discussion. :p

One Link Theory should win the prize for most annoying theory ever. Come on, Miymoto and Anouma already said that there were multiple Links. Not to mention the fact that it is completly illogical for there to be only one Link.

Hey Mario, I pretty much agree with you, but Id like to hear your explanation of why you think LA Link is a different Link. I think he is the same, but if you have a good argument, Id like to hear it.

Well, when LA was first released, everyone rightfully assumed it to take place after ALttP. After all, according to the story, Link had just defeated Ganon, and decided to go on a quest of enlightenment. So he sailed out, got caught in storm, blah blah Link's Awakening. But if you play through the Oracle games, once you finish the second game and defeat Ganon, the game ends with Link setting sail:

.

This would seem to coincide with the setting of Link's Awakening fairly well. And since he meets Zelda for the first time in Oracle, and is already familiar with her in LA, it's probably a separate Link from the one in ALttP. Then again, the Nightmare in LA takes on the form of the wizard Agahnim, which Oracle Link would not have been familliar with, so it's hard to say with any certainty which theory is correct.

I've been recently musing over the possibility of it being a different Zelda but the same Link, which would tie up all the loose ends rather well, but there isn't enough evidence to support that theory wholeheartedly.

There totally isn't one Link. This is from the UK box of A Link to the Past:

Venture back to Hyrule and an age of magic and heroes. The predecessors of Link and Zelda face monsters on the march when a menacing magician takes over the kingdom.

A one Link theory just doesn't work, unless Link is able to stay a child for thousands upon thousands of years. Which I strongly doubt is possible. I wouldn't argue if you presented a "One Ganon Theory", as I believe that he is the same one from beginning to end.

I agree with the One Ganon Theory, but I have to say that the One LInk Theory is partialy wrong. I only think that Link is in a *few* of the games, not all I say. My opinion, is that he isn't in ALttP and TWW.

Originaly quoted by Luigi64

Yes another issue is the Twinrova sisters. Now if this were one timeline all the way through and it was destiney that they live to keep control of Nabooru and fight Link in the future, then how is it that they are alive in the Oracles to revive Ganon? Also, how is it that they both die in the Oracles before their meeting with Link in the future? This has to take place before the future OoT because if it took place after, then they would both be dead.

True, it would seem illogical, but here's something to think about:

Adult Link's adventure in OoT is, in my opinion, what 'may come to be'. Which means that, pulling the Master Sword is almost like looking into Galadriel's Mirror and seeing what would happen if Frodo did this or didn't do this. The same perhaps goes with Link, and the reason why he was put to sleep, IMHO, was that so he could see what may come to pass in the future.

The one thing that kinda gets me out of turn, is that the Sages, in my opinion, don't have as great a power as the goddesses, and therefore are only like good wizards of this world. I don't understand/believe the theory of the Sages having dominate power over all beings, thus having complete control over what they do. It's like turning them into Gods and Goddesses when they are, IMHO, 'servants'. So I believe that the things he saw as an adult were true visions of the future made by some magical force (Goddesses perhaps) which would happen due to what things are happening in the moment. Ganondorf wouldn't just go for Hyrule (which is in my opinion a small country), he'd go for the whole *world*, wouldn't he? Which would mean he'd have other countries bending to his will, meaning he has 'other servants'. Wanna know who they are in my opinion? Majora's Mask, Veran, Onox and Twinrova; and it's Link's job, while he still has time as a child (after seeing his adult adventures), to stop them or else the future will be a dark future, which means he has to travel by sea to get to Holodrum and Labrynna. After defeating Veran and Onox (the 'Resurrectiong Ganon' notion is irrelevant if this theory strikes truth). Yet while returning home, he comes across a storm, and he enters Koholint Island. Link's Awakening ensues, and after awakening the Wind Fish, he departs.

With these servants out of the way, the adventure becomes easier, and Ganondorf loses *easily*, without any help at all, and Link does his quest without any difficulty, and Ganondorf is imprisoned in the Sacred Realm (or Dark Realm).

Then many generations pass, and soon Agahnim the wizard appears before the king and hell insues. Agahnim banishes six of the maidens before Zelda is left. However, during the night, Zelda sends out a call to any who would be able to hear her, and Link and his uncle hear. A Link to the Past ensues, and ladidaa, everything is done. However, soon long after, it appears that the Ganon whom Link had 'slain' had to have been a 'dummy', and the real Ganon, knowing that the land had been rejuvenated, found a way out of the Sacred Realm as though he were Melkor coming up the earth from Angband, and then supposedly, he must have gone to far reaches to find the Triforce of Power once again, and that's when the real hell started, since the Hero of Time could not return (hey, he's dead by this time!).

The Goddesses (and Gods, perhaps, since I remember that ALttP was once called 'The Triforce of the Gods') hear the pleas of the people, and seeing the evil that overlays the land, they flood the world, drowning all evil, like God flooding the earth for the same reason.

However, Ganon is not destroyed, and appearing in the vast seas as a curse in the wind, fate calls for a hero, and his name is, surprisingly, Link. His sister is kidnapped by the Helmaroc King, and Link goes on a mighty adventure to not only save her, but to save Hyrule trapped under the sea.

In my opinion, TWWII should be the 'last'. However, hearing Aonuma saying that he will enjoy what games will come in the future, I fear TWWII will not. NOw that you've heard my theory, go ahead and disaproove of it, but *please* don't flame me because it sounds insane. Please!

-Tenial.

A Link to the Past and The Wind Waker screw up every theory though, not just the One Link one. The One Link theory though is simply incorrect, as Miyamoto himself has said they're many different Links. I mean, how else could you explain the changing terrain, other than it's thousands/hundreds of years before or after the last game?

I agree with what you say, though Tenial. Ocarina of Time and Majora's Mask are the same Link, and I think A Link to the Past and Link's Awakening are the same Link, and maybe Legend of Zelda and Adventure of Link. I think there's probably five Links and five Zeldas?

The number of Zeldas is more difficult to answer, since there's that extra Zelda from ZII. She's most definitely not the same one