Meh. Here I go again...

Zelda used to be... an "elite" series. EVERYONE of even the slightest intelligence, no matter how much of a fanboy they were, whether they liked the series or not, at least respected the series for the master piece it was. The Zelda games were always amazing, always brought wonderful new things to the table.

The decline started with the Oracles, in my humble opinion. Not to say the Oracles are bad games, no... just that they were lacking certain qualities. They never felt much like Zelda to me. They lacked that special Zelda magic that had always been there, previously. They seemed like a fan imitation, really. A fan imitation with a large budget, but still a fan imitation.

It also signalled that Nintendo was willing to cheapify the series. Once, the thought of Nintendo farming out their best series to other developers, just to save time and money, would have shocked and horrified the whole industry. It still horrifies me. The fact that they had Capcom making TWO at once was even worse.

And Aonuma. Eh. I don't like him. I don't like his "lets destroy Hyrule so we can make a brand new world that will be my creation!" attitude. I don't like Miyamoto distancing himself from the series so much.

I don't like having so many games, so quickly. I don't like that they don't take much time anymore. Ocarina of Time took... what? 5 years? What happened to that? Now they're just rushed. Loo at the Wing Waker, if you need proof.

Now, despite the fact that I have enjoyed Four Sword, and will undoubtedly enjoy Four Swords Adventure... I don't like it either. It is another sign... a sign that Nintendo is willing to turn Zelda in another Mario... instead of an epic, untouchably amazing franchise, it is just another mascot, one with party games and spinoffs. The quality of these party games and spinoffs is irrelevant.

Finally, I don't like what they've done to the atmosphere of the series. Now, let me put this straight first... I love the celshading present in tWW. I also really love the LttP graphics in FSA.

However, I HATE what they've done to Link. I hate the design they've been using in tWW. I hate the design in the two FS swords. I even hate the FS art, because it is tainted by this new Link.

They also subtley changed how they're doing things... to use a friend's example, it's much like Disney. They went from amazing products that may seem, on the surface, designed for kids, but in actuality are amazing experiences for adults as well (Lion King and aLttP, anyone?)... to one that seem childish on the exterior, AND are beginning to be that way all the way through (Treasure Planet?), with touches like adding child Link's annoying little shrieks to the LttP rerelease for the GBA. God, I HATED those. They practically ruined the best game of all time.

Plus, there's this sudden interest in completely and totally removing any and all difficulty from the games.


Meh. Enough of my complaints. Perhaps it is just me clinging to my love of the series, or just blind fanboyism, but I still love all the games, even tWW, and will continue to buy every Zelda game in the forseeable future.

I agree... the Oracles seemed to kill it IMO.... bad idea IMO... good games... bad idea... I M O.... but I think Capcom is capable of the two at once.... they did a fine job... you're right... maybe a sidequest after the main fight against ganon... then another main story again is fine... but a whole lot of them? not cool, but i'm living.... a NEW Link... the design... is based off the original only with blonde hair is it not? it is... same hair style and all... I disagree and say Links Design was fantastic in TWW and FS.... the yelling in the lttp.. yea.. uncool... the lil feature's they are adding I think are there to intice people to buy it.. again... for the what? 5th time? how many times was LttP released and re-released? they gotta change something right? well thats what they think atleast... I don't think so.. but they do.... I meen.. why WOULD someone buy the same game a bunch of times with no difference at all.. sure... mobility.... but... come on now.... it's there way of saying "its the same amazing classic, but AMAZINGLY BETTER"; anyone ever see that SouthPark Episode with all the Movie Updates? StarWars...Indiana Jones.... Etc etc...? That's a prime example of this.

Heh, I do agree quite a bit with what you say. I'm going to start quoting any second now...

*ding*

Here we are.

Zelda used to be... an "elite" series. EVERYONE of even the slightest intelligence, no matter how much of a fanboy they were, whether they liked the series or not, at least respected the series for the master piece it was. The Zelda games were always amazing, always brought wonderful new things to the table.

For the most part, that still is true. The problem is that today we have blind fanboys, people who aren't even willing to try something before judging it, etc., who are clogging the video game market. Video games used to be a small industry, now they've ballooned into something huge. It's only natural to have more idiots out there. You'd be surprised, though...more than you may think still respect Zelda. It's just that the industry has changed and for many, gore, sex, other mature themes = good game. It was never like that "back in the day".

The decline started with the Oracles, in my humble opinion. Not to say the Oracles are bad games, no... just that they were lacking certain qualities. They never felt much like Zelda to me. They lacked that special Zelda magic that had always been there, previously. They seemed like a fan imitation, really. A fan imitation with a large budget, but still a fan imitation.

I also agree with that, and I think that many will. I too felt that while the Oracle games were amazing in their own right, even better than the famed Link's Awakening in some areas, they simply didn't have the classic "Miyamoto Magic" that the other games have had. Maybe it was the new settings, or the changes in puzzle types, but it definitely did feel different...for better or for worse, however, is somewhat hard to tell. Remember, though, that Nintendo was closely overseeing the project. It's not like Capcom was free to do whatever they wanted. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if they were under strict guidelines.

It also signalled that Nintendo was willing to cheapify the series. Once, the thought of Nintendo farming out their best series to other developers, just to save time and money, would have shocked and horrified the whole industry. It still horrifies me. The fact that they had Capcom making TWO at once was even worse.

For the third time, I agree. While I don't feel that Nintendo has cheapified the series to the point of no return, so to say, but it really is a bit strange to see that they are allowing other developers to do work on their beloved franchises. I think that this has to do with them trying to come out with more "first-party" games more often, as they're the ones that sell the most. An expansion of their development team would have been just as effective, although it's easier to get someone else to do the work with you watching over them. I have a lot of trust in Capcom, however. They're one of the best developers out there; it's not like they got Midway to do the games instead.

And Aonuma. Eh. I don't like him. I don't like his "lets destroy Hyrule so we can make a brand new world that will be my creation!" attitude. I don't like Miyamoto distancing himself from the series so much.

I agree, once again. They're taking the wrong direction. Zelda has always been about Hyrule, not Labrynnia or The Great Sea. Although I don't think that he's trying to destroy Hyrule (there's a good chance it will return in the next game, I think), he shouldn't seem so eager to get rid of it.

I don't like having so many games, so quickly. I don't like that they don't take much time anymore. Ocarina of Time took... what? 5 years? What happened to that? Now they're just rushed. Loo at the Wing Waker, if you need proof.

Ocarina of Time took about seven years if I remember correctly. I don't mind there being more games out, but if it means sacrificing quality then I'd rather not have it. After all, an extra two dungeons in The Wind Waker really would have been a blessing, and I'm sure just about anyone would be able to wait a few months more for it. The game, in comparison to other Zeldas, was too short, and this didn't help.

Now, despite the fact that I have enjoyed Four Sword, and will undoubtedly enjoy Four Swords Adventure... I don't like it either. It is another sign... a sign that Nintendo is willing to turn Zelda in another Mario... instead of an epic, untouchably amazing franchise, it is just another mascot, one with party games and spinoffs. The quality of these party games and spinoffs is irrelevant.

Nintendo is doing what they think will make money. And it will. People see Zelda, they almost automatically buy. The same has gone with Final Fantasy over the years. The latest games have been far from brilliant, but they have sold on the name alone. Let's face it, Nintendo is taking the same strategy, albeit in a somewhat different direction, and the first reason you go into business is to make money, not to necessarily make good games.

Finally, I don't like what they've done to the atmosphere of the series. Now, let me put this straight first... I love the celshading present in tWW. I also really love the LttP graphics in FSA.

However, I HATE what they've done to Link. I hate the design they've been using in tWW. I hate the design in the two FS swords. I even hate the FS art, because it is tainted by this new Link.

I don't mind the new look of the series, and Link doesn't bother me all that much. However, I do agree that a more traditional anime style would be better. It seems we may be getting that in The Wind Waker's sequel as well; Link's character model has been changed quite a bit apparently.

They also subtley changed how they're doing things... to use a friend's example, it's much like Disney. They went from amazing products that may seem, on the surface, designed for kids, but in actuality are amazing experiences for adults as well (Lion King and aLttP, anyone?)... to one that seem childish on the exterior, AND are beginning to be that way all the way through (Treasure Planet?), with touches like adding child Link's annoying little shrieks to the LttP rerelease for the GBA. God, I HATED those. They practically ruined the best game of all time.

I'll agree that the sound effects in the GBA version of A Link to the Past were incredibly annoying, but I don't agree that it nearly ruined the game. I don't like the Disney comparison, though. The Wind Waker is quite a deep game, possibly moreso than Ocarina of Time. Let's face it, the drowning of thousands of people and an entire country (or world, or whatever Hyrule is) isn't exactly the lightest thing around. I really like how the plot is becoming more mature, and I disagree that it is becoming too child-oriented.

Plus, there's this sudden interest in completely and totally removing any and all difficulty from the games.

That was a problem in The Wind Waker, and I think that making Link take more damage would have had a darastic impact on the difficulty, despite it being such a small change.

I still love the series. I thought TWW was a masterpiece.

TWW was IMO the best, I loved it, it was the only Zelda game I actually have taken the time to finish. For one, I do agree that the oracle series were not as good, and Links Awakening had more of that "magic" than these did. LA was what got me into Zelda, and it kept me in, and it always gave me a special feeling, and I just call it the "Zelda" feeling. However, after playing TWW that feeling was washed away, and I viewed Zelda in a completely different manner. Instead of the amazing fantasy game it was, it now was a cartoon, but still Zelda. I got a partial "zelda feeling" from it, but I also got a new and different one from it, one that I learned to really enjoy.

I still like the oracle series, and I like every Zelda game except for AoL. That, IMO, was a huge screw up. It took a huge turn from the traditional Zelda game, and made it into a pokemon type game, that when you ran into an enemy you had to face it in a larger, zoomed in screen, which I really did not like at all.

Not Pokemon-like game. That's called random battling. You'll see it in almost every RPG.

it is a characteristic of RPGs, no the Pokemon series.

I myself agree, the Oracles were my introduction to Zelda, but when I later play aLttP it blew them out of the water. As for the declining series, if ti keeps up eventually there'll be another Wand of Gamaleon (sp?) and that will snap Nintendo back to their senses. Unfortunatly by then the Zelda name will be so tarnished (with the help of Soney and Microsoft) that it may be to late. I really wish that Nintendo would put more time and effort into thier newer games, but untill the consol wars are over it's probably not going to happen, right now Microsoft, Sony and Nintendo are all trying to release more console spesific games then the other. Untill Nintendo's marketing division realises that creating a few spectacular Gamecube games is better for buisness then a few hundred terrable games, Zelda will slowly turn more and more mascot like.

It'd be amazing if Shigeru Miyamoto and Squaresoft cut another deal to remake the whole series into a FF style of playing. I mean, imagine OoT in FF:9 style, or Four Swords in FF: CC style.

-Tenial, Master of Writing! Mwa ha!

You all complain too much. I've probably posted the following sentence ten times here (each time directed at lord-of-whiners): YOU'RE NEVER GOING TO GET A LINK TO THE PAST AGAIN. Never. Ever. Get over it. It's a good game, a classic, one that should be mentioned amongst the best games ever and so on, and you're never going to get a game like it again. That doesn't mean you're not going to get a game that GOOD, just not a game like it in, well, gameplay. If you waste your time comparing LttP to every single goddamn Zelda game that comes out, you're just going to mope around the whole time you play the game. All of you fools need to be locked up in a closet with your old Zelda games and stay there, so you can stop hyping up new releases needlessly until you expect the game to be the equivalent of some sort of virtual orgasm.

Also, the whole Wind Waker thing.... I don't get it. You love it and you love it and you love it, and then you detract a couple nitpicky things from it, therefore it is not perfect, therefore it sucks. The main thing seems to be that it is too easy: why? I know there are some people who pride on figuring out the whole game themselves after lots of trial and error, but I think the only games that should HAVE to be difficult are games like Contra, Ikaruga, and so on. Zelda is not a game that you should be dying in every second. It's just not. Seriously, imagine dying 30 times on a boss. Is that what you really want?

Then there's this whole Zelda-Mario comparison, as if Link is playing tennis against a smiling Ganondorf. Tell me, what Zelda game cheapens the series' heritage? We haven't seen Link party on a board game or play sports, we haven't seen Ganondorf as a controllable character (in the Zelda series, you weeners), we haven't seen anything like this. And I don't understand how people are viewing the recent additions to some Zelda games as childish. OMGZ LINK MAKES NOISES WEHN HE SWINGS HIS SOORD I FEEL EMBARASED PLZ STOP. Yeah, totally ruined the game. If you can handle his noises in OoT, MM, and TWW (and on a different note, what's with these stupid abbreviations?), then you can take the GODAWFUL PAIN in the remake.

In short, I guess Miyamoto's run out of the pixie dust in his little wand. Maybe he's directing it towards Pikmin (uh oh, starts with the same letter as Pokemon!), maybe he's passed it on to Aonuma, the evil blasphemer that he is, perhaps Sony or Microsoft has taken it! By the way, I love the Disney comparison! Have you ever heard a ten year old (the same age most of you were when you saw the Lion King) complain about the new Disney movies? Have you? I rest my case with that, and I rest my case with all of you. Stop whining, buy the new Zelda games, or lock yourself in a dark and empty closet with the old ones. Or, God forbid, stop buying them if you're really that upset. Oh wait, but you can't! Nintendo has you in their hands and will not let go. Ever. If any of you ever see Miyamoto on the street, tell him what you think of the new games. Maybe he'll pretend to notice you. But he doesn't care. Haha.

It'd be amazing if Shigeru Miyamoto and Squaresoft cut another deal to remake the whole series into a FF style of playing. I mean, imagine OoT in FF:9 style, or Four Swords in FF: CC style.

I've decided that you purposefully try and suggest the things I would hate most

Originally posted by lord-of-shadow
Not Pokemon-like game. That's called random battling. You'll see it in almost every RPG.

it is a characteristic of RPGs, no the Pokemon series.

Well, lets just say that I am not a fan of that type of battling system in Zelda games, it seems way to untraditional, and doesn't fit the series in my opinon. Zelda games seem much better off battling enemies the way it has been, and it just took a turn from tradition. I became used to fighting enemies the way it was, and this type of change seemed... weird. And I know that pokemon is not the only type of game that does that... I like Golden Sun, and Final Fantasy do that too, most RPG's do. But what I meant is that that style of RPG fighting does not seem to fit with Zelda.

Originally posted by lord-of-shadow
Zelda used to be... an "elite" series. EVERYONE of even the slightest intelligence, no matter how much of a fanboy they were, whether they liked the series or not, at least respected the series for the master piece it was. The Zelda games were always amazing, always brought wonderful new things to the table.

The decline started with the Oracles, in my humble opinion. Not to say the Oracles are bad games, no... just that they were lacking certain qualities. They never felt much like Zelda to me. They lacked that special Zelda magic that had always been there, previously. They seemed like a fan imitation, really. A fan imitation with a large budget, but still a fan imitation.

It also signalled that Nintendo was willing to cheapify the series. Once, the thought of Nintendo farming out their best series to other developers, just to save time and money, would have shocked and horrified the whole industry. It still horrifies me. The fact that they had Capcom making TWO at once was even worse.

And Aonuma. Eh. I don't like him. I don't like his "lets destroy Hyrule so we can make a brand new world that will be my creation!" attitude. I don't like Miyamoto distancing himself from the series so much.

I don't like having so many games, so quickly. I don't like that they don't take much time anymore. Ocarina of Time took... what? 5 years? What happened to that? Now they're just rushed. Loo at the Wing Waker, if you need proof.

Now, despite the fact that I have enjoyed Four Sword, and will undoubtedly enjoy Four Swords Adventure... I don't like it either. It is another sign... a sign that Nintendo is willing to turn Zelda in another Mario... instead of an epic, untouchably amazing franchise, it is just another mascot, one with party games and spinoffs. The quality of these party games and spinoffs is irrelevant.

Finally, I don't like what they've done to the atmosphere of the series. Now, let me put this straight first... I love the celshading present in tWW. I also really love the LttP graphics in FSA.

However, I HATE what they've done to Link. I hate the design they've been using in tWW. I hate the design in the two FS swords. I even hate the FS art, because it is tainted by this new Link.

They also subtley changed how they're doing things... to use a friend's example, it's much like Disney. They went from amazing products that may seem, on the surface, designed for kids, but in actuality are amazing experiences for adults as well (Lion King and aLttP, anyone?)... to one that seem childish on the exterior, AND are beginning to be that way all the way through (Treasure Planet?), with touches like adding child Link's annoying little shrieks to the LttP rerelease for the GBA. God, I HATED those. They practically ruined the best game of all time.

Plus, there's this sudden interest in completely and totally removing any and all difficulty from the games.


Meh. Enough of my complaints. Perhaps it is just me clinging to my love of the series, or just blind fanboyism, but I still love all the games, even tWW, and will continue to buy every Zelda game in the forseeable future.

Couldn't have said it better myself. You are a genius, man. Try emailing this post to a GamePro editor. It'd be interesting to see what they have to say about it.

You hit the nail on the head, LoS. I think the series began declining at Majoras Mask though. After all, its the first game Anouma got his hands on. I like the graphics in WW, but I dislike the chibi style. Hopefully Sear is right about the character modle being changed.

Can't agree with the time part, I think we are waiting too much. It's really really annoying to wait for a good game for 5 freaking years. I don't care how good the game is, I do not want to wait five years. I only play Nintendo consoles for Zelda nowadays, and with Zelda coming out almost never I barely play my GameCube.

But you are right, Zelda isn't exactly getting better by time... But I loved The Wind Waker, it got me back to Zelda. It was perfect the first time, but sure, it lacked many things and didn't quite have good replay value - I have only completed the game once, and can't be bothered to do it again.

As some guy before me said, we most likely won't see ultimate revolutionizing Zelda games again. I don't consider ALTTP to be one, I never found it to be so good as you describe it. It was good for sure, but I don't think it was that good. OoT beats ALTTP if you ask me. But it was after all a huge inspiration for OoT and perhaps even MM. I prefer the 3D Zelda games mostly, they are bigger and you can explore more. I don't get so deep in the 2D ones...

Didn't Miyamoto say something like "The Gamecube will be an evolution, not a revolution"? You're all expecting too much. I'm with Torino on this one, Wind Waker isn't ALTTP 2 and never will be. Nor will Oot, MM, WW2 or any other game. They're unique. They're all brilliant in their own ways.
My first Zelda game was WW. Slow, huh? But that means I don't look on ALTTP and OoT and games like that as particularly groundbreaking in graphics or otherwise. To me they're all marvellous and to be honest I couldn't give a hoyoi pear as to what some Sony fanboy thinks of the series.

I completely agree with Torino. And quite a bit with l-o-s too. Just because the recent Zelda games haven't been as enjoyable (to you) as the old ones doesn't mean the Zelda series is going to die. This is probably just a period where Zelda games come out that don't have the "magic" of the older ones. I thought TWW was great but you guys are so picky. Zelda fans are the pickiest fans of any game. They are afraid of change. If one thing changes they get really frightened by it and automatically think the game lost its "magic". But everything needs change. If we had Link repeatedly going