Should Midna have been included in Brawl?

Originally Posted by Sage of Earth

Yoshi started in a Mario series, exists in the Mario universe, all the enemies in Yoshi's games are from Mario games, etc, etc. The only difference is the icon. He's not there representing "Yoshi's Story" as its own series because Yoshi's Story is as much its own franchise as Luigi's Mansion is. No one would take Yoshi's Story as its own entry, save apparently you. No one sees Yoshi and says "Hey, it's one of the main characters from the Yoshi series!" they say "Hey, that's the dinosaur that Mario rides!"

Yoshi does have his own series. It's what he represents in Brawl. He's part of the Mario series, but doesn't represent it.

They're the same moves, though. B-Up is the rocket blast, B-Side is the dash, B is a slower, stunning laser pistol, and B-Down is a shield.

Falco's nuetral B and Down B have completely different animations and properties. Different animation + different property=different attack.

His A-melee combos may be slightly different but I've never noticed enough of a difference.

Then you don't play the game enough.

My choice on which to play out of Fox and Falco relies entirely on my preference in lasers. Wolf feels heavier to play as, so I prefer him to both of them, and he is reasonably different, but again, they just took the basic framework for Fox and added/detracted from it, only to a greater extent. He's not an entirely original character when it comes to the way he plays. He's basically just if you want a more solid, controllable Fox.

How is Wolf unoriginal when none of his moves are the same as Fox's?

Originally Posted by Captain TMS

Yoshi does have his own series. It's what he represents in Brawl. He's part of the Mario series, but doesn't represent it.

He represents a series which is a sub-series of the Mario series!

Falco's nuetral B and Down B have completely different animations and properties. Different animation + different property=different attack.
Then you don't play the game enough.

The same damn properties, because they're a beam shield, and a laser gun. Just because the laser gun has different properties doesn't change the fact that they're slightly-altered versions of Fox's moves.

How is Wolf unoriginal when none of his moves are the same as Fox's?[/QUOTE]

Upwards rocket blast is only different because it has no charge and no fire, it is in essence the same attack. The sideways dash is only different in that it's diagonal, it's still a sideways dash. The beam is only different in that it's slow, it's still a beam. The shield is only different in that it's red, it's still a shield. It's plain to see that he is just an altered clone of Fox, rather than being different in the same way that, say, Link is different to Fox.

Originally Posted by Sage of Earth

The same damn properties, because they're a beam shield, and a laser gun.

What?

Just because the laser gun has different properties doesn't change the fact that they're slightly-altered versions of Fox's moves.

But its completely different.

Upwards rocket blast is only different because it has no charge and no fire, it is in essence the same attack.

Different animation.

The sideways dash is only different in that it's diagonal, it's still a sideways dash.

Different animation.

The beam is only different in that it's slow, it's still a beam.

Different animation

The shield is only different in that it's red, it's still a shield.

Its a reflector. Also different animation.

It's plain to see that he is just an altered clone of Fox, rather than being different in the same way that, say, Link is different to Fox.

He is a clone by name. Like, all of his specials can be named the same way as Fox's, but when you study the moves up close, they are completely different.

Dude, at a certain point it's customary to admit you're wrong, instead of arguing on pointlessly.

Originally Posted by Captain TMS

What?
But its completely different.

It's not completely different because they're still the same flipping moves, just with a different animation. A laser gun is a laser gun, just because he moves his arms in a slightly different way doesn't change the fact that in essence the move is the same. The only way it would be different would be if it was actually different, like a beam sword instead of practically the exact same gun. Link is "completely different" to Fox, Falco is a SLIGHT tweak to Fox, Wolf is an altered version of Fox. You can't say that Falxo and Fox are "completely different" because it's plain to see to anyone who isn't blinded by fanboyism that they're not.

Different animation.
Different animation.
Different animation
Its a reflector. Also different animation.

YEAH BECAUSE THE WAY THEY'RE ANIMATED REALLY MAKES A LASER PISTOL DRASTICALLY DIFFERENT TO A LASER PISTOL. ESPECIALLY when EVERY move Falco and Wolf have is an altered version of one of Fox's moves, unlike Samus who has a charge shot (which is substantially different to the laser gun in mechanics, but for the sake of argument I'll use it as a comparison) and then a completely different set of special moves.

Fox, Falco, and Wolf all have an upward charge. The way this move works in terms of damage and launch power and slightly in animation (Fox and Falco's is animated practically exactly the same) does not change the fact that it is an upward charge.

Fox, Falco and Wolf all have a laser pistol weapon. Fox's is slightly faster than Falco's and Wolf's, and Wolf's has a blade, but it is still a laser pistol weapon.

Fox, Falco, and Wolf all have a sideways dash. Fox and Falco's look exactly the same, Wolf's goes diagonally. Wolf may be MORE altered, but it isn't so altered as to be considered a completely different move altogether. It is still a sideways dash.

Fox, Falco, and Wolf all have a deflector shield. Fox's and Falco's are blue and hexagonal, Wolf's is red and round, but they work exactly the same.

The same moves, with the same concept, animated slightly differently, does not change the fact that they are the same moves.

He is a clone by name. Like, all of his specials can be named the same way as Fox's, but when you study the moves up close, they are completely different.

Yeah, he's a clone because people call him a clone because he IS one. Having to get a magnifying glass to notice a difference is being far too specific because a minor difference isn't good enough to say that it's completely different. A laser gun is still a laser gun, and the fact that they had to make a new animation for it in brawl doesn't make up for the fact that they can't be arsed changing the idea from that in Melee (which WAS the same animation).

We've also drifted horribly from the topic at hand.

Originally Posted by Sage of Earth

It's not completely different because they're still the same flipping moves, just with a different animation. A laser gun is a laser gun, just because he moves his arms in a slightly different way doesn't change the fact that in essence the move is the same.

They look the same (kinda), but weren't made the same. I would feel bad if I was the one in charge of animating the characters and everyone said that they were the same but were completely different.

The only way it would be different would be if it was actually different, like a beam sword instead of practically the exact same gun. Link is "completely different" to Fox, Falco is a SLIGHT tweak to Fox, Wolf is an altered version of Fox. You can't say that Falxo and Fox are "completely different" because it's plain to see to anyone who isn't blinded by fanboyism that they're not.

Fanboyism? What are you talking about?

YEAH BECAUSE THE WAY THEY'RE ANIMATED REALLY MAKES A LASER PISTOL DRASTICALLY DIFFERENT TO A LASER PISTOL. ESPECIALLY when EVERY move Falco and Wolf have is an altered version of one of Fox's moves, .

Not their A moves, and those are more important.

Yeah, he's a clone because people call him a clone because he IS one. Having to get a magnifying glass to notice a difference is being far too specific because a minor difference isn't good enough to say that it's completely different.

I've played the game in-depth for about 300+ hours. I know a lot about this game (especially stuff about Fox and Falco), much more than you probably do. I found the differences easily, I didn't need a magnifying glass.

We've also drifted horribly from the topic at hand.

Conversation generally goes different directions.

I don't like the idea of having Midna as a playable character on Brawl.

Isn't there enough playable Zelda characters already?

Originally Posted by Eternal Legend

I don't like the idea of having Midna as a playable character on Brawl.

Isn't there enough playable Zelda characters already?

Again I don't like you!!!!!!!!

Originally Posted by Zeldanerd5

Again I don't like you!!!!!!!!

^ Ahhh! I'm sorry! Again, this is just my opinion. Sorry if it may have offended you.

Originally Posted by Eternal Legend

^ Ahhh! I'm sorry! Again, this is just my opinion. Sorry if it may have offended you.

Nice try again.

Originally Posted by Eternal Legend

I don't like the idea of having Midna as a playable character on Brawl.

Isn't there enough playable Zelda characters already?

People are currently arguing about that. Even so, there aren't enough female characters in there. Sure, you could play as a bloke but the side is underepresented. Come on, there is only 3 girls in there. I wouldn't want them to shove them in for the sake of it, but like Falco, Fox, and Wolf being practically the same with a different look and different animations, wouldn't hurt to have an awesome character like Midna, who has a decent sized fan base, in the game.

So my point is, yes there may be enough Zelda characters, but there is not enough females. In comparison to other games, Brawl has a larger female fan base than on average other games.

Really, there are some differences between Wolf's and Fox's FS. Wolf's doesn't last as long, but it's stronger.

Also, for the two Link's FSes, Adult Link doesn't hit the enemy as many times, but the hits are stronger.

I wouldn't make Midna a new character, but instead, a form of Link.

Link's Down B would be to transform into Wolf Link, with Midna riding on Wolf Link's back.

Wolf Link:

Side B: Midna's Swipe
Midna uses her headhand to smash the opponent.

Up B: Midna's Whip
Midna uses her headhand to lash out upwads. Also acts as tether recovery.

Down B: Shadow Transform
Wolf Link transforms into normal Link

Neutral B: Wolf Spin
Wolf Link charges up the spin attack he uses in TP.

Side A: Wolf Link pounces at whoever the move is targeted at.

Up A: Wolf Link snaps at the air with his jaws.

Down A: Wolf Link digs into the ground, avoiding damage, then jumps out, causing damage.

Neutral A: Wolf Link snaps in front of him.

Triple A: Wolf Link snaps in front of him, pounces, and then uses the ordinary spin attack.

Final Smash: Fused Shadows
Midna puts on the Fused Shadows, becomes that wierd things with the seven arms, and then the seven arms shoot across the screen, causing massive damage and knockback.