The Romance Thread IV: The Debate Continues

Originally Posted by Guilthas

Well only in TP I could sense some homosexual vibes from some of the characters (But then again I see what I want to see.) but otherwise my theory stands on the "He actually saved the world even though all the women in the game where throwing themselves at him."-line

That was only for TP though. There was nothing like it in OoT or MM, from what I can remember anyway.

I once heard some stupid theory that Ganondorf perhaps had something for Link in OoT, since he was obsessed with the boy, no matter what age. I saw it as to be frightened of Link's growth and the full blown assault on Ganondorf alone, rather than having feelings for the boy.

I have heard of more than one TP Link is full blown gay theory. In OOT I've read the LinkxGanon as Ganon somehow convincing Link due to his child like gullible nature to become his gay lover.

How on earth did this thread get so big? Link is an avatar, he isn't meant to pair up with anyone

I just thought of something. How exactly would Link serve Zelda in the end of TP, if he does, when the Hyrulean Castle literally exploded before the horseback battle? >_>

Does anyone here actually support any pairings that do not involve Link? C'mon everyone, there's more characters out there. I support Komali and Medli....

Originally Posted by Ganonslayer2000

I have heard of more than one TP Link is full blown gay theory. In OOT I've read the LinkxGanon as Ganon somehow convincing Link due to his child like gullible nature to become his gay lover.

Now THAT is something that I have not heard of before... Ganondorf and Link as a gay couple in OoT was popular, but the theory dropped when Link embarked to MM and also to the events in TP.

But homosexual elements in TP was often clear from some of the male characters. Shad was heavily one of them.

I'm sure someone is at least trying to build a new Hyrule Castle. They wouldn't just leave it completely gone! But considering Link is not a carpenter, I doubt he went there.

And I love a bunch of pairings that don't involve Link, too. Medli and Komali are so cute! Poor Komali, with his little flower....

And Ganon + Link = NO. Although somehow it wouldn't surprise me if Ganon were some sort of pedophile, I'm VERY glad it's not canon.

And finally, as for Shad: he's not gay, he's just British!

I think it's Ilia. Although so many people talk about it and write fan-fiction about it and so on, I don't think thast Link and Zelda will ever be together. Also, I do believe that Midna developed feelings for Link during their journey, but she-as is Zelda-is too...what's the word?...wise for him. He and Ilia are good for each other.

Originally Posted by Ordonian

I think it's Ilia. Although so many people talk about it and write fan-fiction about it and so on, I don't think thast Link and Zelda will ever be together. Also, I do believe that Midna developed feelings for Link during their journey, but she-as is Zelda-is too...what's the word?...wise for him. He and Ilia are good for each other.

Midna and Zelda are too "wise" for him? What does that mean?

Originally Posted by kaybee2

And finally, as for Shad: he's not gay, he's just British!

That's..... a bit racist....

Originally Posted by The Goron Moron

That's..... a bit racist....

Haha, sorry; it's not actually racist. It's a quote. It actually has nothing to do with Shad himself. I was just wondering if anyone would catch where the quote is from, and it fit, because Shad is British. I promise, I'm not insulting British people or gay people.

Shad isn't British. He's Hylian.....

I wonder about what TP Link & Zelda said after they were left in the desert after Midna left (I also wonder about what exactly Zelda gleaned from Midna in their apparent mind-meld when their "hearts were as one").

I certainly think a marriage is possible between TP Link & Zelda, but it wouldn't be a romantic one from the place TP left off - the fact that Zelda bowed to Link in the "lend us the last of your power" scene (remember, TP-Zelda is the monarch even if she hasn't yet had her coronation as Queen by the start of the game - perhaps Zant killed her father before her surrender - and the monarch is bowed to; they bow to no-one) certainly implies that the established Chosen Hero of The Goddesses has a status beyond that of a nobleman within the hierarchy of the kingdom, so I don't see that Link's common birth would be a problem.

In addition, she'd want to control the ToC (and probably search for the ToP, after it disappeared with Ganondorf's apparent death - and if it returned to the Sacred Realm, only someone who can wield the Master Sword can open the door. And if it popped off to someone else, the way the ToW & ToC went to the OoT Zelda & Link when Ganondorf unwittingly split the Triforce in OoT, then whoever would desire power enough to call the ToP to them would be a worry), and, again, marriage to the Goddesses' chosen holder of it would be a good way to do so.

I don't see that Link would become King in such a scenario - he'd be Prince Consort and First Lord of Hyrule or something like that. It would probably also be his job to locate the ToP. Romance may or may not follow with such a marriage.

Originally Posted by Reboot

I wonder about what TP Link & Zelda said after they were left in the desert after Midna left (I also wonder about what exactly Zelda gleaned from Midna in their apparent mind-meld when their "hearts were as one").

I certainly think a marriage is possible between TP Link & Zelda, but it wouldn't be a romantic one from the place TP left off - the fact that Zelda bowed to Link in the "lend us the last of your power" scene (remember, TP-Zelda is the monarch even if she hasn't yet had her coronation as Queen by the start of the game - perhaps Zant killed her father before her surrender - and the monarch is bowed to; they bow to no-one) certainly implies that the established Chosen Hero of The Goddesses has a status beyond that of a nobleman within the hierarchy of the kingdom, so I don't see that Link's common birth would be a problem.

In addition, she'd want to control the ToC (and probably search for the ToP, after it disappeared with Ganondorf's apparent death - and if it returned to the Sacred Realm, only someone who can wield the Master Sword can open the door. And if it popped off to someone else, the way the ToW & ToC went to the OoT Zelda & Link when Ganondorf unwittingly split the Triforce in OoT, then whoever would desire power enough to call the ToP to them would be a worry), and, again, marriage to the Goddesses' chosen holder of it would be a good way to do so.

I don't see that Link would become King in such a scenario - he'd be Prince Consort and First Lord of Hyrule or something like that. It would probably also be his job to locate the ToP. Romance may or may not follow with such a marriage.

True...its just at the moment TP Zelda seems far too wise & womanly for a timid teenager like Link. I may be wrong but traditional wise romance before marriage that I know of.

Originally Posted by Ganonslayer2000

True...its just at the moment TP Zelda seems far too wise & womanly for a timid teenager like Link. I may be wrong but traditional wise romance before marriage that I know of.

Well, given that she holds the Triforce of Wisdom, one presumes she has her priorities in order. So what are they?

1) Keep the two pieces of the Triforce that she knows of in safe hands, and within reach.

Her own piece of the Triforce, she can speak for (notwithstanding that she may have "lent" it to Midna when she saved the Twilight Princess' life). Presumably, the events of TP would assure her that the ToC is safe in Link's hands - but Links have shown a tendency to wander after their great fights (MM is certainly in the same timeline, even if LA is not), and the ending may nod in that direction. Short of chaining him in a dungeon, her ability to keep him in Hyrule is limited, and she wouldn't want to lose, or even lose track of the ToC. Marrying him would bind him to Hyrule and keep it where she knows it is.

2) At least locate, and preferably get hold of, the Triforce of Power.

She's found out the hard way that she and her armies cannot hold off an invasion backed by the ToP. She needs to know, at the very least, where it is and who (if anyone) has it. The first place to look is the Sacred Realm, and the only known way there is the Sacred Grove/Temple of Time - but only someone who can touch and wield the Master Sword can use that door, and only one living person has demonstrated that ability (granted, she probably could lift it herself, but then she has to leave her throne for the time it would take to get there and comb the Realm). And if it's not there, she has to confront the possibility someone has it, and they would need to be located - and they'll almost certainly be within Hyrule, since the Triforce is bound to it. Again, a job for Link, since he confronted the previous ToP holder and not only survived, but won a straight fight... but not if he's gone wandering off.

3) Rebuild Hyrule Castle

Nothing to do with Link, but I'd be remiss if I didn't mention it

and...

4) What are her alternatives?

You've said it yourself more than once in this thread - probably either some random nobleman, or the younger son of a king of another land. Neither of those imply marriage for love, just some inbreeding to keep the royal line going. Is the Chosen Hero a worse choice than that, given that she almost certainly will need to marry and have a kid at some point?

None of this, of course, addresses how Link would feel about any of this... but using your characterisation of Link, a "timid teenager" is not likely to say no, is he? Remembering that we're explicitly told that he retains his human instincts and emotions in wolf form (i.e., he's not going to go chasing after any female wolves), the way he stares at Zelda in their first meeting is... instructive, and if she's so "wise and womanly", she would know the power of such a request, and the bond it would place him under.

I don't see him as quite such a pushover, but at the end of TP, of course, we see him riding away from Ordon - probably still in sight of Ilia, so presumably he's had words with her before he went since she's standing there rather than showing any sign of futilily chasing after him. Based on what we know, he's either riding (a) to Zelda; (b) to try and find another way to the Twilight Realm [which may or may not entail visiting Zelda] or (c) away, without any particular objective except to clear his head after everything that's happened.

If (c)'s the answer, then everything's up in the air - he could be aiming to return to Ilia in the end, or he could be intending to leave Hyrule forever. If he doesn't end up near Zelda naturally, she may try to hunt him out for the reasons above before he gets out of Hyrule (if she does so, she would probably have to do so in person - after all, virtually everyone else who she might ask couldn't beat him if he resisted her request, and he'd be less likely to do so if she saw him in person - and since the Triforce is naturally a high priority, it would be a worthwhile use of her time).

If (b)'s the answer, then he's not likely to have any intention of returning to Ordon, ever. If he does visit Zelda to this end, she's likely to try and dissuade him for the reasons above, or - again - she may try to hunt him out.

If (a)'s the answer, then you have to consider that he's almost definitely conferred with Zelda off-camera during the end credits - probably with Midna present, and certainly after the Mirror breaks - and it would probably be by her request that he's seeking her out, after returning the Master Sword and saying goodbye to Ordon.

In any of these cases, whether she seeks him out or he goes to see her, you have to ask if he would refuse a direct request from her (which may already have come off-camera during the end credits, as I suggested). I would lean strongly towards "no".

You make some good points but if they were to be married it should not be this theoretically cold loveless marriage you speak of IMO. Zelda could keep track of the TOC and have Link assist her without forced marriage.

I doubt Zelda is going to require Link to marry her in order to serve within her court. Not to mention that there is no proof that TP Zelda would request Link to marry her in the first place. The only reason I mention that Link is timid is because real women usually want a man not a timid boy, so I doubt Zelda will be requesting Link to marry her anytime soon.

With that said I would rather see Link with Zelda instead of Illia anyway. Unfortunately there is no evidence to who TP Link ends up with period.

Well, I think by far the strongest likelihood at the end of TP is that Link ends up with no-one; he heads off as other Links did in MM and LA - possibly half-cocked on a personal quest to find the Twilight Realm, but more likely just "away" with no particular destination or aim in mind - after saying a probably "Final" goodbye to Ilia.

With that in mind, I then thought about how Zelda would react - and it seems to me, as I've said, that to keep the ToC within reach, and at least locate the ToP (even if just to shatter and scatter it, as with the ToW in LOZ or the ToC in AoL & WW) would be top of the list. So you've got Link headed out of Hyrule, and since she's quite probably the second-last person to speak to him, she would probably know this, and certainly know his state of mind in the aftermath of Midna shattering the Mirror.

Given that, what can she do? She can either accept it and let him go, with no probability of him returning (unlike, say, MM-Zelda, who'd apparently spent months with the post-OoT MM-Link and grown very close to him, and may have guessed that his return was inevitable), and consequently the ToC may never return to Hyrule; she can attempt to capture him and thus forcibily prevent him leaving; or she can attempt to convince him not to leave Hyrule.

Taking them in turn, the first of those would seem to be very bad for Hyrule in the long run - worse still if the ToC ever fell into bad hands. The second of those, given the apparent uselessness of the Hyrule army in TP vs. Link's own performance, would be futile and probably end any chance of a later approach on better terms. So that leaves number three - try and talk him into staying. What could she say, do or offer him that would be most likely to be accepted, and to bind him to Hyrule (bearing in mind that it's not a negotiation - making an offer, having it rejected and coming back with a better offer would be unseemly for one thing, quite possibly seem desperate - and if Link's determined to go to start with, leading him into saying "no" in the first place would only reinforce his determination to leave).

So, with that in mind, what could she offer him that he (a) couldn't say "no" to and (b) would bind him to Hyrule to the point of inhibiting his ability to leave? I can't think of any something that would do both - a knighthood, or even a dukedom, would probably bind him well enough, but is he in the position where lands and titles are such an incentive as to be an offer he couldn't refuse?

And here's how you framed OoT/MM-Zelda's marital choices earlier in the thread to explain why she wouldn't be able to marry her Link (who I could see her marrying with love as the first motive):

Originally Posted by Ganonslayer2000

...Zelda would more likely have to perform her duty and obligation as princess of Hyrule and marry someone...

(You go on to say "of royal blood", but I made the point earlier that if she, as monarch, can bow to him as Chosen Hero of the Goddesses when she should not bow to anyone, that says a lot about the status that gives him, so I don't see that being a significant obstacle as long as he bears the ToC to prove it).

That sounds a lot more like a "cold loveless marriage" than a marriage to Link would end up being, whatever the initial motives. And I see "her duty and obligation as princess [and soon-to-be Queen] of Hyrule" to be to keep the Triforce within its' boundaries and out of evil hands by whatever means are necessary, over and above everything else.

Believe it or not I really like your theory a whole lot. I mean if TP Zelda offered Link a position as official royal sex slave how can he refuse?? I'm pretty sure Link would accept Midnas loss very well in that scenario so no arguement here from me. But IMO Zelda would just have to simply ask Link to do her bidding knowing full well that he would never refuse her. Link is notorious for doing favors without asking anything in return so I truly doubt Zelda ever has to resort to bribing him with land & money or forcing him to marry her. As for Zelda marrying an alternative nobleman/suitor, I would like to think that OOT or TP Zelda would at least love the guy or just not get married at all.

You may despise me for it, but I think one of the few reasonable choices for a love interest for OoT/MM Link would be Navi. Now I know, I know; the game portrays her as annoying. But wasn't she meant to be one of his best friends, just like the Kokiri are with their Fairy Guardians? Now I know I'm probably the only dedicated NaLinker here (I have several stories for the pairing on Fanfiction.net under this same alias), but considering she's the only character who spends all of her time helping him on his quest, doesn't that warrant the possibility of some sort of romantic relationship between the two?

Now I know what the next comment on my argument will be: "But Sir Calibur, how would they have sex?" Maybe that wasn't your intial statement, but that's the one I get on almost every forum I've suggested the idea on. Now I ask you in response: wouldn't true love be about finding ways to oversome difficulties like that? If they loved each other, wouldn't they find ways to get around such obstacles?

It's much the same case with the MidnaxLink stories. Midna isn't allowed to be with Link because she has duties to her kingdom and because she believes twilight and light shouldn't mix. But people find ways around that don't they? Why can't NavixLink be the same? What if, somehow, Navi and Link did fall for each other. And what if they found a way to allow Navi to grow to the size of a human?

Now by now, you've probably stopped reading this post because you're thinking, "Man, this guy's a lunatic! Fairy's and humans? Who's he kidding?" So if you are one of those people, please, feel free to keep reading ahead of this. But for the rest of you, why couldn't Link and Navi be together? Give me one good reason why they couldn't fall for each other during the time that they're together.

And as my final point, didn't Link go looking for Navi in MM? Yes, we don't know how he feels about her, but the fact he was willing to go look for her, leaving his friends, his way of life and everything he knew behind, I think that warrants something.

And while I'm at it, read my stories. Just look up Sir Calibur on Fanfiction.net.

I'm cool with LinkxNavi, but since OOT Link was literally a child in a mans body, his love for Navi was probably more of purity and innocence. TP Link is a teenager so his love for Midna was more likely romantic IMO.

I have known other LinkxNavi supporters as yourself and some believe that after the MM adventure Link chooses to live an obscure lonely existence in the lost woods away from everyone in Hyrule including Zelda and Saria because he was heartbroken that he could never find Navi. Do you believe this as well??

No, I don't believe that he would do that. If he was romantically interested in Navi, he might never look at anyone in the same light her her again, but I don't think he would cut himself off from his friends because of her absence.

I have had TP Link something similar to that within the story I've written for him, but that's because I deliberately made his personality darker than OoT Link's.