The Romance Thread IV: The Debate Continues

I've always thought Telma was kinda creepy... She's pretty much an older hoe XD . Heh heh... BTW, eternal legend, I see you've changed your sig pic again. Too many odd opinons about the one with Link and Zelda? Or just for a change of sceanery?

zelda's a prostitute! link should mary ruto!!!

I'm gonna tell Gilderpilot on you. As for a LinkxRuto pairing, I can see it being possible maybe in the adult timeline. But outside of catering to Ruto's every whim and having to learn how to mate with her, I can't see Link having any special responsiblility or real impact within the Zora kingdom as a Zora Prince at all. Then again it would be more acceptable for Link being a useless tool in the Zora royal court than the Hyrule court I guess. So zenox24 maybe you can give an explanation on how the LinkxRuto pairing could be the match made in heaven then.

Originally Posted by gliderpilotgirl

What if Zelda was the secondary protagonist? If there's anyone in the entire game ( other than a completely new character to be created ) that could fill those shoes, I think it would be her. I've seen the playable Zelda threads and I love the idea, as I did also with the endings of WW and TP when they teamed up on Ganondorf. She's got an entirely different set of skills than Link has, they could team up for great effect. ( Like Paper Mario with Peach )

No. I still stick by my idea (besides, they're already playing the idea of a female assistant in the new Prince of Persia game). The ideas I had in mind were that in the game, there's a character that Link occasionally crossses paths with, and fills the role of an unlikely co-hero, one who's not bound by destiny like Link and/or Zelda, but ultimately becomes intertwined with them nonetheless. Yes, I would make it a male character--using a female character would more likely than not create nothing more than the inevitable sexual tension cliche' that was pretty blatantly used in the likes of the Sands of Time trilogy. Far more subtle would be something more "brotherly" for lack of a better term. That's one bond that has yet to be truly explored in Legend of Zelda, and one that, in my opinion, has always been better than romance. Using Zelda for this role instead of making a character with a kind of prowess, ideals, morale, and overall concept to kind of mirror, if not contrast, with that of Link would just be winging it (and don't try and convince me that they can use Zelda for that kind of concept, because that would be further winging it with her).

I found Zelda's role in Twilight Princess to be, while minor, satisfying. She was enigmatic to an extent, which made her "cool", but at the same time, she was a source of knowledge, one that fit her given her role as the keeper of the Triforce of Wisdom. I think such a role should be taken to the next level, with Zelda "reprising" the role. They tried something like that in OOT, but more on the lines of an inopportune advisor, and well, we weren't supposed to know that Sheik was Zelda anyway until the time came, so yeah

Originally Posted by gilderpilotgirl

In terms of romance, if Link and Zelda were to be working together over the period of an adventure, that's a classic set up for romance. I think they were trying this with Midna, but felt the need to "balance it out", once again to give the plethora of love interests each a chance. And they watered down what they had for that.

It's an overused one, and I bring my point back of taking for granted elements that were less than implications. What can be confirmed of Link and Midna's travels together? Their relation changed from one to reluctant allies to caring for one-another. Beyond that is where the speculation truly begins in this case. The same is said for many other cases in the series.

Originally Posted by zenox24

zelda's a prostitute! link should mary ruto!!!

BLORGH! GUH! BLEEEEEEEEEEEEKKKK

Originally Posted by Lunar6

No. I still stick by my idea (besides, they're already playing the idea of a female assistant in the new Prince of Persia game). The ideas I had in mind were that in the game, there's a character that Link occasionally crossses paths with, and fills the role of an unlikely co-hero, one who's not bound by destiny like Link and/or Zelda, but ultimately becomes intertwined with them nonetheless. Yes, I would make it a male character--using a female character would more likely than not create nothing more than the inevitable sexual tension cliche' that was pretty blatantly used in the likes of the Sands of Time trilogy.

It's an overused one, and I bring my point back of taking for granted elements that were less than implications. What can be confirmed of Link and Midna's travels together? Their relation changed from one to reluctant allies to caring for one-another. Beyond that is where the speculation truly begins in this case. The same is said for many other cases in the series.

Everyone's entitled to their opinion; I should probably point out though that a certain amount of the fanbase likes romance. Or maybe romance isn't the right word, ( as you are correct in that we've never seen it fully developed ) maybe "chemistry" fits better. I personally wouldn't enjoy a story as much if all possibilities of romance were cut out.

Originally Posted by Lunar6

Far more subtle would be something more "brotherly" for lack of a better term. That's one bond that has yet to be truly explored in Legend of Zelda, and one that, in my opinion, has always been better than romance. Using Zelda for this role instead of making a character with a kind of prowess, ideals, morale, and overall concept to kind of mirror, if not contrast, with that of Link would just be winging it (and don't try and convince me that they can use Zelda for that kind of concept, because that would be further winging it with her).

I have no issues with a brotherly character, I just wouldn't want to see Zelda and Link's chemistry completely thrown out. ( Which I feel they mostly did in TP ) Anyways, in terms of mirroring/contrasting Link's character, I can see that working. I would suggest they've mildly tried in MM with the Skull Kid being a somewhat parallel ( but gone evil ) to Link. It would be another way to expose Link's character by showing what he is or is not.
You won't get any arguments from me about Zelda and that. She may be somewhat similar to Link in character, but she's herself. And making her evil would destroy the foundation of who she is.

Originally Posted by Lunar6

I found Zelda's role in Twilight Princess to be, while minor, satisfying. She was enigmatic to an extent, which made her "cool", but at the same time, she was a source of knowledge, one that fit her given her role as the keeper of the Triforce of Wisdom. I think such a role should be taken to the next level, with Zelda "reprising" the role. They tried something like that in OOT, but more on the lines of an inopportune advisor, and well, we weren't supposed to know that Sheik was Zelda anyway until the time came, so yeah

Are you suggesting a bigger role for her? Because I can completely agree with that. Where we've seen her in larger roles ( WW as Tetra/Zelda, plus OoT as you mentionned ) I personally loved it.

Originally Posted by gliderpilotgirl

Everyone's entitled to their opinion; I should probably point out though that a certain amount of the fanbase likes romance. Or maybe romance isn't the right word, ( as you are correct in that we've never seen it fully developed ) maybe "chemistry" fits better. I personally wouldn't enjoy a story as much if all possibilities of romance were cut out.

I'm well aware of the number of romance-shippers in the Zelda fanbase. I've just stopped viewing it as potential canon, because it's ultimately speculation. Though the use of the word chemistry is a good use of the word indeed. Romance, to me, hardly counts as a priority in a story. At least in the case of Legend of Zelda's story/ies. Not that I'm accusing anyone here in particular, but I'm just on the belief that romance is scarce, if ever, consistent in the Zelda series, and the last thing it is is a necessity. I like to think of it as a neutral force. Besides, I hate fan couple flame wars

Originally Posted by gilderportgirl

I have no issues with a brotherly character, I just wouldn't want to see Zelda and Link's chemistry completely thrown out. ( Which I feel they mostly did in TP )

I think doing that was a good start. Be it by coincidence, or pure intention, it seemed to simultaneously open up room for several more characters that were most definately more well-integrated into the story in at least some way than in any Zelda game before. I think that's a better turn than just emphasizing one character, no matter her place in the overall series. Interaction between them doesn't need to be cut out, but it certainly doesn't require the same kind of priority that it used to have.

Originally Posted by gilderportgirl

Anyways, in terms of mirroring/contrasting Link's character, I can see that working. I would suggest they've mildly tried in MM with the Skull Kid being a somewhat parallel ( but gone evil ) to Link. It would be another way to expose Link's character by showing what he is or is not.
You won't get any arguments from me about Zelda and that. She may be somewhat similar to Link in character, but she's herself. And making her evil would destroy the foundation of who she is.

Well, I wasn't exactly talking about anyone becoming particularly evil. Maybe plot points that involve some confrontation over a difference in morale or a kind of misunderstanding, if necessary, taken to the extent of a plot-born boss fight. But like any story of it's kind, it's ultimately resolved in some way. I suppose I used the term "parallel" in the wrong context, what I meant was that while the character concept that I have in mind would ultimately be that of one on the same side as Link, Zelda, etc., he'd have a few traits that aren't photo-copy identical to them, but not so much that there creates a kind of particualr disdainful tension.

Originally Posted by gilderportgirl

Are you suggesting a bigger role for her? Because I can completely agree with that. Where we've seen her in larger roles ( WW as Tetra/Zelda, plus OoT as you mentionned ) I personally loved it.

Well, my idea in particular would be that of a mentor figure, or rather, a source for say, her sheer advice. As far as screen-time is concerned, I would think at the same amount as what Sheik received in OOT. So, yes, pretty much.

Originally Posted by darkbeastganon

BLORGH! GUH! BLEEEEEEEEEEEEKKKK

LOL!! Yeah...LinkxRuto is not my favorite choice either. Other than Link being legally engaged to her they seem incompatible if you ask me. In a way Ruto is like Midna with a bossy and dominating personality that IMO would be too much for kind and gentle Link to bear longterm wise. I can only see LinkxRuto as a short term relationship at best, but eventually I see Link either settling down with Malon or returning to the kokiri forest with Saria in a non-romantic/innocent friendship type of relationship. Then again, the Adult timeline is all theoretical anyway since Link ultimately returned to the Child timeline. Anyway its still fun to debate about but IMO, whether in a romantic or non-romantic/friendship relationship, as long as OOT Link with fairy has a female ordering him around and telling him what to do, he will be very content no matter what lifestyle he would theoretically settle into.

Originally Posted by Lunar6

I think doing that was a good start. Be it by coincidence, or pure intention, it seemed to simultaneously open up room for several more characters that were most definately more well-integrated into the story in at least some way than in any Zelda game before. I think that's a better turn than just emphasizing one character, no matter her place in the overall series. Interaction between them doesn't need to be cut out, but it certainly doesn't require priority.

I suppose it depends on how you view the series and especially their interaction in terms of importance. When I look at what I consider my ideal Zelda game, I see the "big three" getting the time and respect they deserve at least in an A-plot story. ( Triforce, Hyrule centered ) Anything else less feels wrongly balanced. I don't think you need to butcher the supporting cast to do it either. I see WW as a glowing example. Tetra and Link had huge chemistry, a well developed relationship and Ganondorf was integrated perfectly.
( I think that the better the relationship we have between Link and Zelda, the more it enhances their connection ) Yet we still had people like Medli, Makar and Komali who got screen time. More importantly, they were mostly relevant to the story. In TP we had all this time with Ilia and the Ordon kids, yet all I could think was, "Who are you guys again?" We barely got to know Darbus or the Gorons, Ralis to a certain extent and the Group briefly.
In terms of the big three, I think they should have just left Zelda and Ganondorf out: Midna and Zant carried the show.

Originally Posted by Lunar6

Well, my idea in particular would be that of a mentor figure, or rather, a source for say, her sheer advice. As far as screen-time is concerned, I would think at the same amount as what Sheik received in OOT. So, yes, pretty much.

So business over romance. When dealing with romance, I don't think we are going to see it cut out of the series anytime soon. My question is, what's better? A superfluous character showing up and having to be shoved into the plot at various intervals to remind us of who she is as the dedicated love interest ( Ilia ) or a girl who is truly part of the adventure and lends herself to Link growing away from his roots, rather than tying him to them. ( Zelda or Midna ) It seems people are often divided into these two camps..."before" and "after." I'm definately for the after, if Link wasn't meant to change ( and his desires ), what was the point of his adventure?
Overall, I think it makes more sense to use Zelda for that case rather than making up a new character that is essentially her with some modifications. ( Midna )
Is it just me, or does it seem WW is a game made for the after crowd ( good relationship between L x Z ) and TP for the before? Both are sequels of a type to OoT yet couldn't be more different in this aspect.

Originally Posted by zenox24

zelda's a prostitute! link should mary ruto!!!

RuTo Iz A PrOsTiTuTe, ZeLiNk4EvAh!!!!!!!! PH333R MYINE WR@TH!!!!

Always wanted to do that......

Originally Posted by Lunar6

I'm well aware of the number of romance-shippers in the Zelda fanbase. I've just stopped viewing it as potential canon, because it's ultimately speculation. Though the use of the word chemistry is a good use of the word indeed. Romance, to me, hardly counts as a priority in a story. At least in the case of Legend of Zelda's story/ies. Not that I'm accusing anyone here in particular, but I'm just on the belief that romance is scarce, if ever, consistent in the Zelda series, and the last thing it is is a necessity. I like to think of it as a neutral force. Besides, I hate fan couple flame wars



I think doing that was a good start. Be it by coincidence, or pure intention, it seemed to simultaneously open up room for several more characters that were most definately more well-integrated into the story in at least some way than in any Zelda game before. I think that's a better turn than just emphasizing one character, no matter her place in the overall series. Interaction between them doesn't need to be cut out, but it certainly doesn't require priority.



Well, I wasn't exactly talking about anyone becoming particularly evil. Maybe plot points that involve some confrontation over a difference in morale or a kind of misunderstanding, if necessary, taken to the extent of a plot-born boss fight. But like any story of it's kind, it's ultimately resolved in some way. I suppose I used the term "parallel" in the wrong context, what I meant was that while the character concept that I have in mind would ultimately be that of one on the same side as Link, Zelda, etc., he'd have a few traits that aren't photo-copy identical to them, but not so much that there creates a kind of particualr disdainful tension.



Well, my idea in particular would be that of a mentor figure, or rather, a source for say, her sheer advice. As far as screen-time is concerned, I would think at the same amount as what Sheik received in OOT. So, yes, pretty much.

You know, IMO, you often seem to be teetering on the edge of being sexist or saying something that may upset a select few individuals..? If so, I respect your self restraint but could you 'water it down' a bit more? If not then it might just be my imagination. Unless you'd care to explain???

Hey.. I think I found another girl.... .Medli( i think thats her name.) the bird girl from WW
When you awaken her as a sage she falls into Link's arms.. They look so cute together!!!!

I now support this couple! <3

Originally Posted by gliderpilotgirl

I suppose it depends on how you view the series and especially their interaction in terms of importance. When I look at what I consider my ideal Zelda game, I see the "big three" getting the time and respect they deserve at least in an A-plot story. ( Triforce, Hyrule centered ) Anything else less feels wrongly balanced. I don't think you need to butcher the supporting cast to do it either. I see WW as a glowing example. Tetra and Link had huge chemistry, a well developed relationship and Ganondorf was integrated perfectly.
( I think that the better the relationship we have between Link and Zelda, the more it enhances their connection ) Yet we still had people like Medli, Makar and Komali who got screen time. More importantly, they were mostly relevant to the story.

Medli and Makar's "relevence" was a far cry compared to what my point was getting at, especially considering that their screen time was rather inconsistent in retrospect. TP still had far more emphasis on characters, especially in a numerical sense, than WW ever had. We may not have had to carry anyone around an entire dungeon, but at least the ones that stood out had a little more subtlety to them. While Ganondorf and Zelda weren't exactly as primary as before in TP, there was, again, a better change to help Link (the ultimate focus of the series) become more personable, and that's just what he was in TP, the most out of any Link.

Originally Posted by gilerportgirl

In TP we had all this time with Ilia and the Ordon kids, yet all I could think was, "Who are you guys again?" We barely got to know Darbus or the Gorons, Ralis to a certain extent and the Group briefly.
In terms of the big three, I think they should have just left Zelda and Ganondorf out: Midna and Zant carried the show.

What can be said about Darbus, the same can be said about more than half of WW's characters. Even with all their names, they were either pedestrian NPCs, or were never even integrated marginally into the story. Only a select few of TP's characters were like that. At the very least, each character in TP could be remembered far more easily than those of the ones in WW, because again, they were integrated better into the story.

Originally Posted by gilderportgirl

So business over romance. When dealing with romance, I don't think we are going to see it cut out of the series anytime soon. My question is, what's better? A superfluous character showing up and having to be shoved into the plot at various intervals to remind us of who she is as the dedicated love interest ( Ilia ) or a girl who is truly part of the adventure and lends herself to Link growing away from his roots, rather than tying him to them. ( Zelda or Midna ) It seems people are often divided into these two camps..."before" and "after." I'm definately for the after, if Link wasn't meant to change ( and his desires ), what was the point of his adventure?

Those two perspectives are just what I'm talking about. If anyone's character was "shoved" into TP's plot, it was Zelda herself. Characters like Ilia not only had an established history with Link (and more "chemistry" than Link ever had with the likes of Zelda), but no where in TP was there an implication that Link had to "grow away from his roots". Link in all his games was never meant to put things behind him, or have people keep him from doing such things. The point of his adventures has been pretty consistent with each game. Link fulfills his destiny as the chosen one to save Hyrule. TP Link in particular already had pretty set desires, and finding/saving Ilia was arguably one of the biggest ones. Midna had her own little plot going for her, but it was just intertwined with that likes of Link, be it by chance or destiny (probably the latter, given the usual premise of the games as a series).

Actually one of the "Links" had a real relationship in-game. In AoL (same Link as in the original but more grown up) you get the final scene where the curtain drops but you still get to see Zelda lean forward onto him (yeah it's obvious what they were doin). And well then the curtain drops completely, leaving them all alone by themselves in the temple where Zelda woke up, wich ofc still has the bed that she was sleeping in (even though you don't actually see it in that sceen). And well the rest is up to us to imagine what happend next *nudge nudge*.
(Actually this whole thing creeps me out becouse that Zelda has been like sleeping for a decade, so she's way older than Link)


But if we'r talking about the 3-D Links and their romances i think there is one female who I think has been getting to few votes. And that's Saria, wich ironicly has fewer votes then Ilia who actually is a tribute to Saria (Saria and Ilia sound almost exactly the same in Japanese).
I base my choice of partner for Link on how the character is acting towards link. The only female character who have confessed to him (even if it was indirectly) is Saria wich you got to know from Mido when you come to the lost woods as an adult in OoT.
There is another character who is obviously on to Link, and that's Romani in MM. When you have completed her sidequest you'll notice when you talk to her.
If you say that you don't need any bow practice she says something like:
"Oh aren't you .... c o n f i d e n t ( with a very dreamy looking face)

If i had to choose one of the Zeldas though i'd actually pick the OoT one. She seems to care about you. I think that Tetra get's too cold hearted in PH.

Originally Posted by Lunar6

Those two perspectives are just what I'm talking about. If anyone's character was "shoved" into TP's plot, it was Zelda herself. Characters like Ilia not only had an established history with Link (and more "chemistry" than Link ever had with the likes of Zelda), but no where in TP was there an implication that Link had to "grow away from his roots". Link in all his games was never meant to put things behind him, or have people keep him from doing such things. The point of his adventures has been pretty consistent with each game. Link fulfills his destiny as the chosen one to save Hyrule. TP Link in particular already had pretty set desires, and finding/saving Ilia was arguably one of the biggest ones. Midna had her own little plot going for her, but it was just intertwined with that likes of Link, be it by chance or destiny (probably the latter, given the usual premise of the games as a series).

You make good points, but to me with Illia, reviving her memory was probably the most anti climatic thing I have ever done in a video game. After the escort mission Illia just stands there in the sanctuary useless and irrelevant throughout the rest of the adventure. Even after you have helped get her memory back all she annoyingly says is something like "Gosh I got some explaining to do when I get back." as she continues to just stand there useless and irrelevant in the sanctuary. As I said before the only vibe I got from the LinkxIllia relationship by the time I revived her memory is Link being like a protective brother looking out for his naive innocent sister. To me an intimate romantic relationship between her and Link is about as unlikely as a romantic relationship between LinkxSaria in OOT.

Originally Posted by Lunar6

Those two perspectives are just what I'm talking about. If anyone's character was "shoved" into TP's plot, it was Zelda herself.

I agree: I just don't think it should be that way. I see Zelda as an "all or nothing" type of character. She has far too much history of effectively being the leading lady of the series ( if there is one ) to take a backseat in such a manner. I'd rather have seen her totally left out than thrown in for fan service.

Originally Posted by Lunar6

Characters like Ilia not only had an established history with Link (and more "chemistry" than Link ever had with the likes of Zelda), but no where in TP was there an implication that Link had to "grow away from his roots". Link in all his games was never meant to put things behind him, or have people keep him from doing such things.

Here's another spot in the romance debate where people often separate into two camps. Is Link only bound by destiny to fulfill save Hyrule, or is more in store? By leaving behind his roots I mean his former lifestyle and attitude differ from his state after the adventure. Is he still the naive small-minded goat herder from before? Absolutely not. I see him having trouble returning to his former lifestyle. Rather, I feel the games support him "accepting the life of the hero" ( as per the Hero's Spirit's words ) and leaving his past desires somewhat behind. In OoT/MM he was effectively forced to leave his childhood behind because he literally grew up and away from it and with that away from the Ilia ( Saria ) character. He then tried to run away from Hyrule and ends up being a hero again regardless. WW Link leaves his island behind for new horizons and again ends being a hero again. LoZ/AoL Link is even hinted to directly be Hyrule's next ruler as per the backstory. The thing these heroes have in common is that they are never the same after. To expect him to carry on with a romantic interest like nothing happened I believe is unrealistic. Especially one who doesn't share his calling.

As for how this supports Zelda, I see him eventually always being called back to Hyrule, and she's its' center. The more involved he gets with the kingdom's welfare, the closer he would get to her. In a game like TP I am not hopeful for romance, but in many others ( after MM, after LA, after AoL and such ) I very much am.

Originally Posted by Lunar6

TP Link in particular already had pretty set desires, and finding/saving Ilia was arguably one of the biggest ones. Midna had her own little plot going for her, but it was just intertwined with that likes of Link, be it by chance or destiny (probably the latter, given the usual premise of the games as a series).

But did these desires change in the end? Do you still see Link's lifegoal as being to settle down as mayor of Ordon? ( as per the instruction booklet ) What about to be with Ilia? ( If it was ever his and not only hers )

Originally Posted by Navi says Hey!

Actually one of the "Links" had a real relationship in-game. In AoL (same Link as in the original but more grown up) you get the final scene where the curtain drops but you still get to see Zelda lean forward onto him (yeah it's obvious what they were doin). And well then the curtain drops completely, leaving them all alone by themselves in the temple where Zelda woke up, wich ofc still has the bed that she was sleeping in (even though you don't actually see it in that sceen). And well the rest is up to us to imagine what happend next *nudge nudge*.
(Actually this whole thing creeps me out becouse that Zelda has been like sleeping for a decade, so she's way older than Link)


But if we'r talking about the 3-D Links and their romances i think there is one female who I think has been getting to few votes. And that's Saria, wich ironicly has fewer votes then Ilia who actually is a tribute to Saria (Saria and Ilia sound almost exactly the same in Japanese).
I base my choice of partner for Link on how the character is acting towards link. The only female character who have confessed to him (even if it was indirectly) is Saria wich you got to know from Mido when you come to the lost woods as an adult in OoT.
There is another character who is obviously on to Link, and that's Romani in MM. When you have completed her sidequest you'll notice when you talk to her.
If you say that you don't need any bow practice she says something like:
"Oh aren't you .... c o n f i d e n t ( with a very dreamy looking face)

If i had to choose one of the Zeldas though i'd actually pick the OoT one. She seems to care about you. I think that Tetra get's too cold hearted in PH.

heh heh... "nudge nudge"... Nice touch. But it probably should'nt creep you out, even though I've never played the game, as long as Zelda's not a pile of dust or old an wrinkly, she's only technically older than Link. Something called "staisis" or however it's spelled.

Saria may be the only one who cofesses but Link probably should'nt be with her. Technically, they're not the same species (Hilyan, Kokiri) And Link will eventually grow up. Saria wont. That'd be creepy, a grown man involved with a little girl...

As for Tetra, what makes you ay she's cold-hearted?

Originally Posted by Blackfire667

As for Tetra, what makes you say she's cold-hearted?

It was mostly the ending that did it. I mean she couldn't help that she was all petrified and abscent the whole game. But the ending when she was arguing with her crew about if anything actually happend, I was like: Hey! Gimme some credit here, I've been riding a boat for HOURS to save you...

And what touched me most was that Link didn't really care, in the end he sees Linebeck's ship and goes like "yay" he's not just a dream. And I think that really symbolises the most important friendship bond Link had in that game, and for once it wasn't with a girl... It was a odd guy with "One Peice" complex (Linebeck ftw).

Originally Posted by gliderpilotgirl

I agree: I just don't think it should be that way. I see Zelda as an "all or nothing" type of character. She has far too much history of effectively being the leading lady of the series ( if there is one ) to take a backseat in such a manner. I'd rather have seen her totally left out than thrown in for fan service.



Here's another spot in the romance debate where people often separate into two camps. Is Link only bound by destiny to fulfill save Hyrule, or is more in store? By leaving behind his roots I mean his former lifestyle and attitude differ from his state after the adventure. Is he still the naive small-minded goat herder from before? Absolutely not. I see him having trouble returning to his former lifestyle. Rather, I feel the games support him "accepting the life of the hero" ( as per the Hero's Spirit's words ) and leaving his past desires somewhat behind. In OoT/MM he was effectively forced to leave his childhood behind because he literally grew up and away from it and with that away from the Ilia ( Saria ) character. He then tried to run away from Hyrule and ends up being a hero again regardless. WW Link leaves his island behind for new horizons and again ends being a hero again. LoZ/AoL Link is even hinted to directly be Hyrule's next ruler as per the backstory. The thing these heroes have in common is that they are never the same after. To expect him to carry on with a romantic interest like nothing happened I believe is unrealistic. Especially one who doesn't share his calling.

As for how this supports Zelda, I see him eventually always being called back to Hyrule, and she's its' center. The more involved he gets with the kingdom's welfare, the closer he would get to her. In a game like TP I am not hopeful for romance, but in many others ( after MM, after LA, after AoL and such ) I very much am.


But did these desires change in the end? Do you still see Link's lifegoal as being to settle down as mayor of Ordon? ( as per the instruction booklet ) What about to be with Ilia? ( If it was ever his and not only hers )

I agree that Zelda shouldn't have been shoved in there, and should have either been given a much larger role or not been put in at all.

Also, in MM, Link didn't "run away from Hyrule." He was looking for his friend throughout the time between OoT and MM. I'm surprised that someone who could remember a line that seemed entirely insignificant can't remember why Link was where he was in the beginning of MM. He only ended up in Termina because he wanted his horse and ocarina back. Also, in WW, he left in order to rescue his sister, which led to him eventually saving Hyrule, which he could have avoided doing, but he was actually the reason Hyrule was in danger. If he hadn't drawn the Master Sword, he could have easily just killed the damn bird and leave. So, the entire of WW after saving Ayril was the his and the King of Red Lions' fault. Of course, Link did leave in the end, so I'll give you that.

Originally Posted by firsttsurugi

Also, in MM, Link didn't "run away from Hyrule." He was looking for his friend throughout the time between OoT and MM. I'm surprised that someone who could remember a line that seemed entirely insignificant can't remember why Link was where he was in the beginning of MM.

I assure you I can perfectly remember, I'm just taking what the game gave me and analyzing it. MM is a very deep game.

( And that line of the Hero's Spirit was not remotely insignificant: it pretty much can sum up how he chose to live the rest of his life. )

My conclusion about Link running away from Hyrule has to do with several factors. One, taking his mood into account at the beginning of the game. Depressed, downtrodden ( the word of the Nintendo website's summary ) and completely different from the end of OoT. He was out of sorts. Second, what the prologue said. "a boy who crept away from the land that had made him a legend...". To see Link just walk in to Zelda, tell her he is leaving ( possibly suddenly ) and then leave without a backwards glance seems a little "off" for him. He didn't have to be alone and miserable in the beginning of MM, it was self-induced because he had left.

With WW, I was talking about after the end. He left and his new heroics were in PH.

Wow. All you people seem to put up some great points and not fret or be babyish rabid fanboys about it. Well, most of you anyway.

I can only say I'd rather see him with anyone but Zelda. I don't like the pairing, period. Well, it only bothers me in OoT since I consider every Zelda to be different in all the games (different to Link whose personality is always the same), it kind of annoys me when people say "Zelda" as in all the princesses as a whole.

My favorite choice for him from all the games is Malon. Or Zelda in WW.