The Romance Thread IV: The Debate Continues

The thing is, if the evidence for Link/Zelda is scant, the evidence for the other women is even more so.

Originally Posted by Ganonslayer2000

Yeah OOT and even TP have very little evidence of Link having romantic feelings for anyone. I like the concept that both games kind of give you a fill in the blank feeling as to how Link would interract not just with females but just people/NPCs in general within the game. With that said, if you just go by what the games give you, Link to me seems to come off as this super shy and oversubmissive nice guy that seems way too unassertive to be in a romantic relationship of any kind unless the girl (Zelda, Malon, Midna or others) would make the first move. In the case of Malon and Midna it may be possible but with Zelda highly unlikely. I still like a LinkXZelda pairing but either Link has to become more assertive or Zelda would have to make the first move. Maybe a future Zelda game may shed light on this.

^ I like the idea that Link and Zelda are best for each other, but since saving the world of Hyrule is always in their hearts and heads, I don't think that they would get so close so easily. I think that Zelda would have to make the first move since Link looks more of the timid type of guy when it comes to love to me. But that is my opinion. Zelda is less shy in a lot of ways.

What they need is a game that sequels OoT to clear this thing up, but they won't do that because they "want us to feel like we are the character" or something like that, which I think is a pointless effort unless you are actually customizing him to look, sound, and act exactly as you do/would, so they may as well clarify who he at least slept with to eventually make TP Link.

Originally Posted by Månegarm

The thing is, if the evidence for Link/Zelda is scant, the evidence for the other women is even more so.

That's precisely why I personally back Link x Zelda over the others: scant and subtle yes, but it seems to keep appearing throughout the series.

Another thought is how the couple is viewed by the general populace: we have Smash Brothers Brawl ( representing a broad view of the series as seen from it's developers ) equating Zelda and Link with Mario and Peach. The manga's are almost all hugely positive for Link and Zelda, plus the cartoon, the book and so on. I just can't shake the feeling that if it was entirely incorrect, these, or at least the ones with developer input ( the manga ) would have corrected us.

For the sake of carrying on and countering your argument:

Originally Posted by Månegarm

-Neither of them have ever shown any gestures towards each other that can interpreted in an exclusively romantic context (i.e. that cannot be attributed to friendship or respect). In TP, the "platonics" win hands-down, because there is ZERO evidence for any attraction between them in that game.

Fair enough: I can agree that some women ( Malon or Ilia off-hand ) seem to be pointed more out as a traditional love interest in terms of function than perhaps Zelda, who does dual duty as a partner to Link.
But in my mind, this is ruined by the fact that they are often not the "emotional focal point" that Zelda is, at least with OoT. If they had wanted to leave us with the sense that Malon meant a great deal to Link, they could have done so with the ending instead of focusing on Zelda and Link. IMO, TP did it with Midna and Ilia and other games have focused on Marin, Tetra and more Zelda...in each I feel the time spent and emotions generated are important in indicating who Link is more likely to have feelings for.

-In OoT, Link and Zelda spent most of their time together as children, who are not yet old enough to experience genuine romantic affection.

They don't need to: "Young love becomes deep affection". It has to start somewhere, and the case for all the other romantic interests ( Saria, Ruto, Malon ) usually involves friendship as children as a starting point. How is Zelda any different?

-They simply do not spend enough time together to develop any mutual attraction to each other.

Experience with love would tell that time is not a necessary factor. Attraction is often formed in a first meeting. Shallow it may be until developed, it still exists. Conversely, someone could spend years with someone else and not develop attraction.

I'm rather curious, though, as to why so many people (maybe I shall call them "anti-shippers" seem so hell-bent on saying "Link and Zelda's relationship is strictly platonic!" to the point where they become openly hostile if you suggest otherwise. (Someone once said, "everything Zelda says in OoT would take some serious bending to mean anything romantic.")

Then again I don't pretend to understand shippers.

Originally Posted by Månegarm

I'm rather curious, though, as to why so many people (maybe I shall call them "anti-shippers" seem so hell-bent on saying "Link and Zelda's relationship is strictly platonic!" to the point where they become openly hostile if you suggest otherwise. (Someone once said, "everything Zelda says in OoT would take some serious bending to mean anything romantic.")

Then again I don't pretend to understand shippers.

When coming across that opinion, I've often seen it as the result of support for another pairing. By discounting Link and Zelda romantically, it takes the possibility of competition out for this third member. I think the same tactic is often used when Sheik and Zelda are separated: if you can consider Sheik to be completely seperate, many of the implications she makes can be discounted as well.
I personally see Sheik as merely another side to Zelda, and everything she says is valid in terms of reflecting how Zelda thinks and what Zelda is. ( A tomboy, adventurous, outgoing and very brave ) I equate her with Midna in imp form or Tetra as a pirate: still themself, merely in a altered form.

Second: Not all fans are wired the same way: I will fully admit as a woman I tend to have a nose for romance and will seek it out, and usually pick up what is existing very easily. In that case, subtleties and implications usually seem to stand out to this fan. In contrast, a fan who is not really interested in romance may not be reading the dialogue for romance if that makes sense.

You can seek out and detect romance, glider? Like a Bloodhound? Can you do that with fictional characters?

Originally Posted by Blackfire667

You can seek out and detect romance, glider? Like a Bloodhound? Can you do that with fictional characters?

What I meant in general is I feel people who have more experience with romance in fiction ( books, movies, etc ) may more easily find clues or possibilities, IMO. Mainly because what devices you see in Zelda have likely been used in other pieces of fiction before. One person may consider something blatantly romantic because of a book they've read before whereas another wouldn't.

Originally Posted by Eternal Legend

I think that Zelda would have to make the first move since Link looks more of the timid type of guy when it comes to love to me. But that is my opinion. Zelda is less shy in a lot of ways.

I agree. I probably have said this before, it would be more likely that Zelda would have to make the first real move like maybe hold his hand. But she would probably do it reluctantly as maybe she does not want to corrupt the naive sweet innocence of Link. At best I can still see Link only picking flowers for Zelda and her saying "Aww...Link your so sweet" Then she might give Link a peck on the cheek that would surely make him blush and sigh. She might giggle under her breath and think that he is cute and adorable and all but its nowhere near to the ideal prototypical gallant and bold hero that could sweep Zelda off her feet

You know, now that I think about it, Link's personality is never actually shown as a child, really. Really the only 2 expressions he is seen with in OoT is a blank expression and a startled/shocked expression. Knowing this, I can't really say how Link would act as far as romance would go. Maybe he isn't all that shy, but rather he just has other things to think about other than romance, being that he is both very young and very preoccupied with saving Hyrule. The only thing that is really shown about Link's personality is that he is good at following orders and he is loyal to a cause, this cause being saving Hyrule. This makes pinpointing a specific woman to be even more difficult, because we really only know very little about Link.

I see Link as Batman...
Sure, since he has descendants, I bet he hooks up with a girl at some point...
But ultimately, he doesn't have time for girls, cause he has a world to save...
Like Batman!

LOL!! I like the Batman theory.

Originally Posted by ChildofTwilight

I see Link as Batman...
Sure, since he has descendants, I bet he hooks up with a girl at some point...
But ultimately, he doesn't have time for girls, cause he has a world to save...
Like Batman!

^ Well we see most heroes like that. Surely they are usually handsome and they are strong and powerful, but they personally don't have the time to settle down with a girl. They might have some hook ups for a few hours or days, but they don't get married in that sort. Unless the girl was a super hero as well or that they have been friends since childhood.
But Link and Zelda are a different type. Zelda herself is a hero to her people and so is Link in a different way.

In TP I didn´t see Link that timid. The Handholding cutscene still haunts me with this. He took the first step there. I saw Zelda more timid than Link in TP.

Originally Posted by KPGirl

In TP I didn´t see Link that timid. The Handholding cutscene still haunts me with this. He took the first step there. I saw Zelda more timid than Link in TP.

^ Link was strange. Even though he obviously hasn't had any love in the past with someone else, I didn't understand why he would grin back when Telma or such winked at him. It was a really weird reaction. Perhaps Link percieved it wrong and thought that it was something 'friendly.' Whatever the case, I think both he and Zelda are timid with love.

Plausable?

Originally Posted by Bit

Plausable?

^ Lol, you have got to be kidding me! Tingle only likes little children, not grown up men.

Did you realise that since he doesn't appear when Link is an adult?

i said malon for a couple reasons. malon is a simple girl who lives on a farm. a simple little life. she lives it the way she wants and is happy on her ranch. thats the kind of life is being threatened everytime a baddie such as ganondorf, vaati, majora, agahnim, zant, etc, get in the way. the same sort of life link is fighting to protect. it just makes sense to me that link could end up with a girl like that. he fights for freedom and ends up settling down with malon because of her lifestyle.

Originally Posted by Severian

i said malon for a couple reasons. malon is a simple girl who lives on a farm. a simple little life. she lives it the way she wants and is happy on her ranch. thats the kind of life is being threatened everytime a baddie such as ganondorf, vaati, majora, agahnim, zant, etc, get in the way. the same sort of life link is fighting to protect. it just makes sense to me that link could end up with a girl like that. he fights for freedom and ends up settling down with malon because of her lifestyle.

Have you played Twilight Princess? The Hero's Shade regardless of whether or not he is the Hero of Time, gives a perspective about being a hero. When he "took the path of the hero" he couldn't rest, he always had to protect people. I think Malon is a poor choice for that reason, as the only thing she cares about is her little farm, while Link' calling is to help the people of Hyrule. That's why he's more likely to pick someone like Zelda or Midna, who like him have a duty to protect all their people.

Originally Posted by Ritogirl

Have you played Twilight Princess? The Hero's Shade regardless of whether or not he is the Hero of Time, gives a perspective about being a hero. When he "took the path of the hero" he couldn't rest, he always had to protect people. I think Malon is a poor choice for that reason, as the only thing she cares about is her little farm, while Link' calling is to help the people of Hyrule. That's why he's more likely to pick someone like Zelda or Midna, who like him have a duty to protect all their people.

well its only a poll. i just cast my vote and commented. i didnt think it was that big a deal. i just thought link would want someone to actually settle down with. thats the only reason i chose her. link normaly lives a simple life before he gets summoned to action, right? maybe he'd like to return to that life after he defeats the bad guy.