The Romance Thread IV: The Debate Continues

I never really found the Zelda games to be about romance (at all!), and in TP the only scenes that struck as being romantic were between Link and Midna. You could write a "follow-up" story to the game that could pair up Link with Zelda or Ilia plausibly, however.

Originally Posted by Månegarm

I never really found the Zelda games to be about romance (at all!), and in TP the only scenes that struck as being romantic were between Link and Midna. You could write a "follow-up" story to the game that could pair up Link with Zelda or Ilia plausibly, however.

^ You do see deep scenes of Link together with either Zelda or Ilia. When Ilia restored her memory, there was a scene where Ilia and Link stood in the Spring with an atmosphere of love of some sort. Probably just a long time memory, but I don't Link has any love left for her. Only a best friend.

Link and Zelda had small scenes together, but I don't know whether there was any romantic feelings involved. Link held her hand when she needed support, but I doubt that there was any deep feelings involved. I'm not too sure.

But TP was based around Midna, so what could we suspect?

TP did develope around Link and Midna, but most of the time she was an imp and the only times when she was phisically with him was when he was a wolf. Also, glider, lots of people like it when games refer to one-another. I've no idea why it bugs you, it's fun to get that almost nostalgic feeling.

All of Zelda's dialog in TP was exposition, she had almost no real character development whatsoever. With her being sketched so thinly it's impossible to develop any believable romance with her. Then again, as someone pointed out, the game is called Twilight Princess, which should tell who, exactly, the game is about.

Ilia...whenever someone describes her as "Link's friend" my mind immediately forgoes any possibility of a relationship between them. Maybe it's just our culture, though, having heard of people getting stuck in the "just friends" zone and unable to move out of it. So in the end of TP, Link doesn't really have anyone if you believe he left Ordon village. One could argue that Link wouldn't want to be bound to any one particular person or place, preferring to live his life in freedom. If he is set up to be the "protector of Hyrule" or such, I think it might be best that he not have to worry about "some girl back home" and any obligations he might have to her.

IDK, it just seems more likely that Link just left everything after TP. I'll bet that he just moved on to a different land/village, or continued to purge the land of evil. I can pretty easily picture him staying, and if he did, I think he would choose Ilia, but after what happened, it seems like he wouldn't want to be part of his old (or new for that matter) life.

If you watch the credits when he returns to Ordon, he seems to be a bit of an outcast. It could just be that no one cares about him as all of the children have just returned, but it seems to be a bit more.

I don't think Link was a native of Ordon, not only because he doesn't physically resemble anyone there. I wish the game had given him more development of his backstory like in OoT, but in TP nearly everyone but Midna gets shafted for backstory development.

Also, small, isolated settlements like Ordon tend have a very clear sense of "who's one of us" and "who's not one of us," especially when the population is small enough that everyone knows everyone else, and can trace their ancestry back generations. No mention is ever given of Link's family, so I can speculate that he may have been abandoned there. If so, he would no have no family connections or history, further emphasizing his "apartness." And as Sirius B pointed out way back, his house is not part of the village itself, but separate. I wonder if Link built his house himself, meaning that he set himself apart from everyone else, or if the villagers built his house there, meaning that they set Link apart from themselves.

Originally Posted by Månegarm

I don't think Link was a native of Ordon, not only because he doesn't physically resemble anyone there. I wish the game had given him more development of his backstory like in OoT, but in TP nearly everyone but Midna gets shafted for backstory development.

Also, small, isolated settlements like Ordon tend have a very clear sense of "who's one of us" and "who's not one of us," especially when the population is small enough that everyone knows everyone else, and can trace their ancestry back generations. No mention is ever given of Link's family, so I can speculate that he may have been abandoned there. If so, he would no have no family connections or history, further emphasizing his "apartness." And as Sirius B pointed out way back, his house is not part of the village itself, but separate. I wonder if Link built his house himself, meaning that he set himself apart from everyone else, or if the villagers built his house there, meaning that they set Link apart from themselves.

^ Is there any possible reason that the villages of Ordon wanted Link to be apart of them? He does seem to be an outcast to the whole village since he lives the furthest away and his house style is quite different from anyone elses. And a funny thing to mention, but he does look different from them. They have bigger foreheads...
Perhaps there is evidence that he wasn't born there, but maybe since he was a little child or any other age, he made a strong friendship to Ilia. It could result in love later on if he stays there to live after his adventure, but I'm not really sure.

Originally Posted by Blackfire667

Also, glider, lots of people like it when games refer to one-another. I've no idea why it bugs you, it's fun to get that almost nostalgic feeling.

I'll clarify: I don't like the argument: "Link and Zelda were only friends in TP, so they must have been in OoT" in response to plot/game similarities. I like to take each game/Link and Zelda seperately.
I like general nostalgia though, I loved WW for the references to OoT.

Originally Posted by Eternal Legend

Is there any possible reason that the villages of Ordon wanted Link to be apart of them? He does seem to be an outcast to the whole village since he lives the furthest away and his house style is quite different from anyone elses. And a funny thing to mention, but he does look different from them. They have bigger foreheads...
Perhaps there is evidence that he wasn't born there, but maybe since he was a little child or any other age, he made a strong friendship to Ilia. It could result in love later on if he stays there to live after his adventure, but I'm not really sure.

I doubt they did: maybe it was just a matter of space and him wanting some independance. If I had to make a guess on his past, I'd guess he was either brought to Ordon as a tiny kid with his folks who then died or brought as a orphan. He'd be raised as one of them ( a rancher ) although he isn't one or his parents weren't.
I think he would bond to Ilia if only because she's the only one his age. But that could work against them romantically...the sense of inevitability he may not like. Their relationship has never been tested either, and I think Midna may have thrown a wrench into it. I only got that feel because of how devastated he looked when the mirror broke.

If I were Link, I'd be rather bitter about the cards that had been dealt to me at the end of TP. In that situation I'd be rather put off any sort of romance for a while, and if Ilia made any advances I'd probably answer with "to hell with you!" and leave.

I can imagine Link being a bit like Rambo in First Blood; he's fought all these horrifying battles, but after the war he's lost and doesn't have anywhere to go or anyone to go to.

Yes, you sense a great loss by the look of Link's face when the Twilight Mirror broke. Perhaps by that loss he decided to have some space around people that he had connections to in order of growing his inner self again. Maybe the trauma of loosing someone that he had a strong bond with made him shatter inside to the point of going away for some time.
Now that I think about it, Link doesn't have his own happy ending almost all of the time. The majority of the population celebrates whilst he disappears or goes back home again.

I think there is something about Ilia's personality that separates the two from developing a romantic relationship.

Originally Posted by Eternal Legend

I think there is something about Ilia's personality that separates the two from developing a romantic relationship.

I think her naivety and innocence may be at the heart of it, or at least it would be what prevents it from going furthur. I see Link after the quest as realistically having feelings of anger, bitterness and general darkness: he's seen so much evil and shed so much blood. The innocence of the villagers I can see as a reason why he would form a shell ( I agree with you ) as to protect them from it.
But he would need someone to unload to, someone to sympathize who could handle it, and with Midna gone, Zelda is the only one I can think of. I see him growing furthur and furthur away from Ilia in this. If he did unleash his feelings on her, I see her as being horrified and scared of him, and this would only make the divide worse. So he could either bottle it up and let it eat him on the inside, or go to someone with the wisdom to handle it.

I see OoT Link as suffering the same problem, but instead of staying to deal with it with Zelda, he ran away to Termina. However, I think being turned into a Deku Scrub and being so powerless may have made him realize that he was a fool: when given a second chance by wisdom ( Zelda's memory ) he took it and became himself again, regardless of how lonely and blood filled the quest might become.

Yeah, I think we can safely cross Ilia off our lists of possible candidates for all the reasons listed.

But something else bugged me about TPs ending: The only way out of the desert is by Midnas' warping, right? So, with Midna gone, how did Link and Zelda get out?

Originally Posted by Blackfire667

Yeah, I think we can safely cross Ilia off our lists of possible candidates for all the reasons listed.

But something else bugged me about TPs ending: The only way out of the desert is by Midnas' warping, right? So, with Midna gone, how did Link and Zelda get out?

I'm sure Zelda or the sages had a teleportation spell.

I never once considered the idea that Link had gained a sense of darkness due to his adventures. That would definitely strengthen the point of LinkxZelda in TP, since Midna was gone seemingly for good. And I guess that LinkxZelda in OoT would be plausible for this reason also. Here's the problem with the theory though. After Link has let out his darkness due to the help of Zelda, wouldn't that just be more like using Zelda as a shrink? He has a problem, he talks to her, she helps fix the problem, problem solved, they go back to their everyday lives. Not only this, but this would be when they were still young, about 10 or 11 for OoT, and they wouldn't really be thinking about relationships (except for maybe Zelda, since she actually lived the 7 years that Link was dormant and would have gained and retained an adult mind). This leaves Link his years in the future in which he can pursue any relationship once he's grown up and actually given it thought. His mind in these subjects are actually much less developed than anyone else, even those his own age, due to his life in the forest, and it didn't come to him all that quickly, as shown in MM when he was completely clueless during the Anju and Kafei quest, as Tatl pointed out.

Originally Posted by firsttsurugi

I'm sure Zelda or the sages had a teleportation spell.

I never once considered the idea that Link had gained a sense of darkness due to his adventures. That would definitely strengthen the point of LinkxZelda in TP, since Midna was gone seemingly for good. And I guess that LinkxZelda in OoT would be plausible for this reason also. Here's the problem with the theory though. After Link has let out his darkness due to the help of Zelda, wouldn't that just be more like using Zelda as a shrink? He has a problem, he talks to her, she helps fix the problem, problem solved, they go back to their everyday lives. Not only this, but this would be when they were still young, about 10 or 11 for OoT, and they wouldn't really be thinking about relationships (except for maybe Zelda, since she actually lived the 7 years that Link was dormant and would have gained and retained an adult mind). This leaves Link his years in the future in which he can pursue any relationship once he's grown up and actually given it thought. His mind in these subjects are actually much less developed than anyone else, even those his own age, due to his life in the forest, and it didn't come to him all that quickly, as shown in MM when he was completely clueless during the Anju and Kafei quest, as Tatl pointed out.

I see it as more unlikely that he would come out unscathed emotionally: he's lost so very much. His innocence, possibly peace of mind and such would be gone. In the case of OoT Link, if no one remembers his seven years, than he's lost even more. I can fully see this causing his departure in MM.

I don't think it's that simple as him merely using her as a shrink and moving on when he's done. In order for him to open up they'd likely become very close...closer than any other. I can see it being mutual from Zelda as she too has no one that really understands her unique life situation. If he's close to her, and this is coupled likely with attraction between the two ( which I firmly believe existed ) romance is more likely than not. It makes less sense IMO for him to pack up and start a relationship with someone who doesn't truly know him and has not been there. Overall, I can see a relationship of mutual dependance forming between Link and Zelda...they allow each other to have someone to confide in. IMO, at the heart of a marriage is the ability to confide in and connect deeply with another person..and I can see this. ( In many of the versions, although it remains to be seen in TP )

The remark from MM doesn't say Link is incapable of loving feelings, it just states he doesn't really understand it. That will come in time...I still believe he loved Zelda as much as he was capable.

Link unloading, eh? Again, reminds me of this scene in Rambo: First Blood:

Trautman: You did everything to make this private war happen. You've done enough damage. This mission is over, Rambo. Do you understand me? This mission is over! Look at them out there! Look at them! If you won't end this now, they will kill you. Is that what you want? It's over Johnny. It's over!

Rambo: Nothing is over! Nothing! You just don't turn it off! It wasn't my war! You asked me, I didn't ask you! And I did what I had to do to win! But somebody wouldn't let us win! And I come back to the world and I see all those maggots at the airport, protesting me, spitting. Calling me baby killer and all kinds of vile crap! Who are they to protest me? Who are they? Unless they've been me and been there and know what the hell they're yelling about!

Trautman: It was a bad time for everyone, Rambo. It's all in the past now.

Rambo: FOR YOU! For me civilian life is nothing! In the field we had a code of honor, you watch my back, I watch yours. Back here there's nothing!

Trautman: You're the last of an elite group, don't end it like this.

Rambo: Back there I could fly a gunship, I could drive a tank, I was in charge of million dollar equipment, back here I can't even hold a job PARKING CARS!

Neither Malon nor Ilia has any real experience with war or bloodshed, and certainly none with being responsible for an entire kingdom. For that reason I don't see either of them being particularly compatible with Link; he's too far "out of their league."

Originally Posted by Månegarm

Link unloading, eh? Again, reminds me of this scene in Rambo: First Blood:

Trautman: You did everything to make this private war happen. You've done enough damage. This mission is over, Rambo. Do you understand me? This mission is over! Look at them out there! Look at them! If you won't end this now, they will kill you. Is that what you want? It's over Johnny. It's over!

Rambo: Nothing is over! Nothing! You just don't turn it off! It wasn't my war! You asked me, I didn't ask you! And I did what I had to do to win! But somebody wouldn't let us win! And I come back to the world and I see all those maggots at the airport, protesting me, spitting. Calling me baby killer and all kinds of vile crap! Who are they to protest me? Who are they? Unless they've been me and been there and know what the hell they're yelling about!

Trautman: It was a bad time for everyone, Rambo. It's all in the past now.

Rambo: FOR YOU! For me civilian life is nothing! In the field we had a code of honor, you watch my back, I watch yours. Back here there's nothing!

Trautman: You're the last of an elite group, don't end it like this.

Rambo: Back there I could fly a gunship, I could drive a tank, I was in charge of million dollar equipment, back here I can't even hold a job PARKING CARS!

Neither Malon nor Ilia has any real experience with war or bloodshed, and certainly none with being responsible for an entire kingdom. For that reason I don't see either of them being particularly compatible with Link; he's too far "out of their league."

Heh. Amusing, but true. I just can't see Link settling into a village/ranch and attempting to care about milking cows or goats when bigger things have been. I was actually chuckling recently because in Minish Cap, in one of the Swordsman's Newsletter, the new Swiftblade remarks this: " I was at Lon Lon Ranch the other day and I saw the ghost of Swiftblade the First attacking a cow! It was kind of sad actually."
Link's much greater than some swordsman too..it would be a terrible comedown for him to end up as a farmer. I think the only girl who truly deserves him is Zelda. He's earned her and she's worthy of him in my book.

Originally Posted by gliderpilotgirl

Heh. Amusing, but true. I just can't see Link settling into a village/ranch and attempting to care about milking cows or goats when bigger things have been. I was actually chuckling recently because in Minish Cap, in one of the Swordsman's Newsletter, the new Swiftblade remarks this: " I was at Lon Lon Ranch the other day and I saw the ghost of Swiftblade the First attacking a cow! It was kind of sad actually."
Link's much greater than some swordsman too..it would be a terrible comedown for him to end up as a farmer. I think the only girl who truly deserves him is Zelda. He's earned her and she's worthy of him in my book.

^ I couldn't have agreed with you more. Ilia and Malon could not handle the thought of having bloodshed and battling in their lives. They are alienated from it and supporting Link with it would just send them off their minds. They would be worried, frightened and even to the point of running away from Link or ending their relationship.

As with Zelda, she is the perfect woman for Link in these situations. She also shares this problem in her life being the Royal guardian of her people and Hyrule. So with Link being by her side, she would be getting as much support from Link as much as he needs support.

However, Saria shares similar values as Zelda. She is aware of Link going through difficult times and she too looks after Hyrule as a sage. However with the difference that they are, they can't really be in a romantic relationship. Fate has brought them as close as being best friends and I think Link would be closer as a best friend to Saria than Ilia.

In my oppinion (I tend to use that sentince as a starter a lot don't I?) Zelda and Link should never be involved in a relationship because it would ruin the sence of duty that they both have for the country of Hyrule. The should stay at a respectable distance from each other. The queen in waiting and the Hero of the land.

Only woman that I could ever see Link with is a brief and unspoken love with Marin in Link's Awakening. And then have her in his memories forever. But other choises in the poll well... Zelda I went trough already but, Saria gave herself to the woods letting Link go so you can't go that way. Midna... Never and for much same reasons that Zelda not to mention that Link cant live in the Twilight realm and Midna can't live in the world os light. Ilia never. Something in her says just no. And Malon seemed to make it clear that Link was not for her.

I did find someone in Twilight Princess that would be perfect for Link but if I said that people would lych me so nevermind.

Originally Posted by Guilthas

In my oppinion (I tend to use that sentince as a starter a lot don't I?) Zelda and Link should never be involved in a relationship because it would ruin the sence of duty that they both have for the country of Hyrule. The should stay at a respectable distance from each other. The queen in waiting and the Hero of the land.

Only woman that I could ever see Link with is a brief and unspoken love with Marin in Link's Awakening. And then have her in his memories forever. But other choises in the poll well... Zelda I went trough already but, Saria gave herself to the woods letting Link go so you can't go that way. Midna... Never and for much same reasons that Zelda not to mention that Link cant live in the Twilight realm and Midna can't live in the world os light. Ilia never. Something in her says just no. And Malon seemed to make it clear that Link was not for her.

I did find someone in Twilight Princess that would be perfect for Link but if I said that people would lych me so nevermind.

^ It's all based on personal opinion. I truly think that Link and Zelda are perfect for each other. They both have similar goals in life and with them together, they get more support than ever thought possible. With Zelda and Link both standing at their sides, they can help each other based on the goals in their life, which is basically protecting Hyrule.
Saria in other words would have to be second to Zelda but seeing as they live in separate worlds and races, they are destined to just be best friends forever.
And as for Ilia and Malon, the fate of Hyrule thrown on their husband would frightened them. They are not familiar to blood or battle, but they are more likely to look for a man who wants to settle down in a simple life, which is not Link in anyway soon.

Yes, Link and Zelda do belong together. But if they marry, someone's gonna be upset: he's no prince. How can this obstacle be overcome?