The Romance Thread IV: The Debate Continues

Originally Posted by Blackfire667

I think that's a little sexist...


"If I wanted to imagine Link's daughter with Zelda, I'd imagine her to look exactly like TP Zelda."

Not that I'm arguing against you, but how is that? OoT Link and Zelda both have blonde hair and blue eyes. TP Zelda has brown hair and (I don't recall the colour of her eyes). How would TP Zelda qualify as OoT Link and Zelda's child?

I'm a guy, so i'm not being sexist, I'm being honest (of course, we don't all, nor do those of us who do always do so, but Link is in a unique situation). Also, Zelda's hair in TP is kind of a mixture of both. It's brown with blond streaks.


And to Glider: I thought that at one point you used that line as part of your arguement, my bad. Also, he's only shown to of a pure good heart as a child. Sure, he does become an adult in OoT, but he is still a child mentally and emotionally. What you are not considering is that people change after the years between 10 and 17, and the likelyhood of Link still being that kind of guy decreases.

Also, there is a possibility that a Zora could, possibly, use a spell to turn into a different race for procreational purposes. And this is not specific to Zoras, as Link can turn into a Zora through the use of his mask, but Ruto being able to transform into a Hylian may solve the problem of her not seeming attractive to Link.

Edit: damn, repost. This is the main post, since I added something to it. I also had to change some things an hour after posting this, so if you've already read this within and hour and 15 min of my posting this, you missed something.

Originally Posted by firsttsurugi

I'm a guy, so i'm not being sexist, I'm being honest (of course, all of us are like that, but Link is in a unique situation). Also, Zelda's hair in TP is kind of a mixture of both. It's brown with blond streaks.

And to Glider: I thought that at one point you used that line as part of your arguement, my bad. Also, he's only shown to of a pure good heart as a child. Sure, he does become an adult in OoT, but he is still a child mentally and emotionally. What you are not considering is that people change after the years between 10 and 17, and the likelyhood of Link still being that kind of guy decreases.

Edit: damn, repost. This is the main post, since I added something to it.

To clarify, I don't think that Link is necessarily lacking in the hormone department, I just think he's better than to give in to it, or allow this factor to make his decisions for him. Why would Link change into something less as an adult? I'd think by the time he was an adult that he may have conquered this better and have a much clearer view on what he needs to do. I can see youth, hormones and immaturity leading to him falsely believe he could say, for instance, make a living with Malon whereas adulthood would teach him such a small existance is not for him. Overall, I think Zelda is the more mature and wise choice, the one he'd make in the end.

Someone is likely to jump on me for suggesting Malon is an immature choice, so I'll elaborate. When I see her and her method of pursuing Link, she reminds me frankly of a flirty and somewhat foolish teenage girl. It's all looks, cuteness and flattery towards Link and she believes he will solve her problems for her.
When we are dealing with Zelda, it's kingdom first, herself a distant second. She has already realized that the world is a big place, and her desires irrelevant. She also knows she does need Link, but takes action to fix her situation even if she ultimately fails. I can see her as wanting Link ( she's still a woman! ) but she won't chase him. She has more things to worry about.

As I stated before, I would like to think that there is a middle ground somewhere between the old hormone raging, cocky and arrogant Link of the bad 80's cartoon and the super shy, quiet and innocent Link that is percieved today. I don't want Link to be a womanizing bad boy but at the same time I don't like him to be the uber unassertive doormat either. In other words it would be great if Link were to make his own decisions instead of Zelda and other NPC dictatng his every thought but currently the oversubmissive and soft spoken Link seems to be real popular at the moment. And in his options for romance whether it be Zelda, Malon, Midna, or Ruto, its obvious Link would not be wearing the pants in any of them for sure.

Originally Posted by Ganonslayer2000

As I stated before, I would like to think that there is a middle ground somewhere between the old hormone raging, cocky and arrogant Link of the bad 80's cartoon and the super shy, quiet and innocent Link that is percieved today. I don't want Link to be a womanizing bad boy but at the same time I don't like him to be the uber unassertive doormat either. In other words it would be great if Link were to make his own decisions instead of Zelda and other NPC dictatng his every thought but currently the oversubmissive and soft spoken Link seems to be real popular at the moment. And in his options for romance whether it be Zelda, Malon, Midna, or Ruto, its obvious Link would not be wearing the pants in any of them for sure.

I'm not saying he's a "womanizing piece of ****" (as Meryl Silverburgh Sasaki might say), but there are times where he may not be thinking in the most moral of ways. Plus, as you have pointed out, some of these women can be more aggressive. Maybe they decide not to settle with losing and try tactics usually associated with players, such as using alcohol (Link is the closest person to an Irishman I have seen in Zelda, and that's not prejudice cause us Irishman even have a holiday in which we celebrate by drinking) or other drugs that would impair his judgement. Even if he did choose Zelda, it would explain how TP Link was Link's descendent, since all Malon has to do is be the first to the punch, since I'm sure the Triforce of Courage would be passed on to the first descendent.

Also

Originally Posted by Sirius B

You killed her off in your story? I don't like her, but even I didn't kill her. I thought about it, but decided that was a little too extreme.

Killing her does not mean that I hate her. I killed off her, Midna, and the entire of Ordon besides Link. The reason I did so was to get Link to go through a scene similar to when Goku turns Super Saiyan for the first time so that he would be closer to having the power to kill the main antagonist, which I made to be Oni Link.

P.S. Has anyone been to a convention like I-Con that have a bunch of people cosplaying and the only character that seems to have more girls crossdressing than Link is Marth? Nothing to do with this thread, just something weird that I noticed.

Originally Posted by gliderpilotgirl

We get closure for everyone else...Ruto and Saria are with the Sages, Malon is obliviously happy with Epona, yet for Zelda and Link, it feels incomplete until they reunite. I will always love OoT best because of the feeling of satisfaction I got when he returned to her. ( A lover returning to a beloved is a huge romantic plot

For me, the only one that seems really and truly “closed” is Saria. Despite personal opinions, I view all of the others as distinct possibilities. As for the ending of the game, in which Link returns to the courtyard to see Zelda, I’ve always viewed it as a scene where Link was “reporting back” to Zelda. Remember, she was the one who assigned him the task of collecting the stones in the first place. He may have seen it as his duty to return to her now that his adventure was finished. The game ends with Zelda with kind of an “Oh, you’re back!” expression on her face. I suppose this could be taken romantically, but I’ve always viewed it more of a “So? How did it go? Did you succeed?” moment, myself.

Originally Posted by gliderpilotgirl

In the interest of keeping this argument going, I'll just add this. If Link did have feelings for Ruto, I can see him truthfully denying feelings for Zelda. However, I don't think the game would leave any question in our minds if that was the case.

Nintendo would still leave it open, most likely. They’ll put in hints, but I don’t think that they’re ever going to make it 100% certain what happened. If they did that, it would ruin the immersive experience of the game, as we would no longer “be” Link. This is the very same thing I don't like about many games developed by other companies; HALO, for example. As good as the games themselves may be, the characters are too fully developed and the story leaves little room for interpretation, so the game lacks that "total immersion" feeling.

Originally Posted by gliderpilotgirl

To address Zelda directly, obviously her fighting skill and archery can be used, but she shares other similarities. For one, to look at her. OoT Link and Zelda are similar in looks so you can't conclude anything but she looks somewhat like him, at least the art of his OoT version. She's also wearing brown boots and has her hair tied like one of his caps. If I wanted to imagine Link's daughter with Zelda, I'd imagine her to look exactly like TP Zelda. I'd also imagine her personality to match, TP Zelda seems much more introverted and serious, much like the Link of OoT and MM.

Hmm, interesting... I had certainly noticed the sword and archery skills, but I had never considered the boots. This could be a connection, but even so, there is no guarantee that they are the same pair. As for her hair being tied back in the shape of Link’s cap, the same can be said for Rutela’s head fin. If you look, the fin’s fluke is about halfway up, and very small; and the rest of it is long, smooth, and pointed at the end. All in all, it is very similar in shape to Link’s cap.

Originally Posted by firsttsurugi

Remember, OoT/MM Link's adult mind is never actually revealed, so you can't put infidelity past him just because you believe that he was a noble person who only had room in his heart for one. In other words, he's a guy, he doesn't think with his heart, he thinks with a certain body part a little further down south!

Actually, this makes a lot of sense! However, as many people have already said, I view Link as a good-natured heroic type at heart. Whatever brief glimpses we’ve been given of his personality have shown him to be very kind and caring towards others. Even with maturity and, the various...impulses...that come with it, I don’t believe that Link would develop like that. However, were it true, it would explain a lot, and possibly put an end to this debate...

Originally Posted by Sirius B

Also, a lot of people would find an intimate relation between the two somewhat revolting. This is because Ruto's appearance, while generally "humanoid," is too different from human appearance to trigger what we consider attractive. The same might go for Link, too, and I can't see him being physically attracted to her when she's so radically different from the people he's seen before.

This is because they are viewing the situation with real-world logic. If this game took place in a realistic setting, I too would most likely be disgusted by the idea. However, it is important to remember that Hyrule exists in a fantasy world; just the fact that a people like the Zoras exist in the first place is proof of that. Judging by the Treasure Chest Lady’s actions in MM, it is clear that Hylians and Zoras do find one another attractive on occasion. It involves a considerable amount of suspension of disbelief, but it is an important point to keep in mind, nonetheless.

i just think that link should go w/ zelda because of the fact that hes constantly saving her a**. after a while, that would build up a special kind of bond between them which would eventually (if it hasnt happened already) blossom into love.

Originally Posted by tyranus009

i just think that link should go w/ zelda because of the fact that hes constantly saving her a**. after a while, that would build up a special kind of bond between them which would eventually (if it hasnt happened already) blossom into love.

Either that, or he would become incredibly annoyed by her.

Originally Posted by firsttsurugi

I'm not saying he's a "womanizing piece of ****" (as Meryl Silverburgh Sasaki might say), but there are times where he may not be thinking in the most moral of ways. Plus, as you have pointed out, some of these women can be more aggressive. Maybe they decide not to settle with losing and try tactics usually associated with players, such as using alcohol (Link is the closest person to an Irishman I have seen in Zelda, and that's not prejudice cause us Irishman even have a holiday in which we celebrate by drinking) or other drugs that would impair his judgement. Even if he did choose Zelda, it would explain how TP Link was Link's descendent, since all Malon has to do is be the first to the punch, since I'm sure the Triforce of Courage would be passed on to the first descendent

Oh yeah, I agree on Link not being so nice all the time. If he were to go to an extreme and use alchohol or illegal drugs I think it would be a funny in a way but it would still go against his Mr.Perfect persona that many fans adore him for. But I guess since there is a Telma's bar he can maybe win drinking contests for money every so often but who knows.

I admit, I don't know much about the sometimes complex timeline stuff, but I like that theory on MalonXLink in OOT for ZeldaXLink in TP. Is gilderpilot aware of this theory of yours?? Anyway I have never been to a cos play convention mainly because I was raised to believe that dressing up in costumes is in league with Satan all that other good stuff.

Originally Posted by Ganonslayer2000

Oh yeah, I agree on Link not being so nice all the time. If he were to go to an extreme and use alchohol or illegal drugs I think it would be a funny in a way but it would still go against his Mr.Perfect persona that many fans adore him for. But I guess since there is a Telma's bar he can maybe win drinking contests for money every so often but who knows.

I admit, I don't know much about the sometimes complex timeline stuff, but I like that theory on MalonXLink in OOT for ZeldaXLink in TP. Is gilderpilot aware of this theory of yours?? Anyway I have never been to a cos play convention mainly because I was raised to believe that dressing up in costumes is in league with Satan all that other good stuff.

I-Con is not a cosplay convention, it is a sci-fi, gaming, and anime convention that has a lot of cosplayers attending.

Also, I'm not saying he would be aware of these illegal drugs, as the women who are drugging him in this scenario wouldn't want him to believe that they were trying to victimize him, but that they simply couldn't resist once it seemed like they would get the opportunity that they were trying to open themselves through the use of illegal drugs. And alcohol is a common and very much legal drug. The only people who really don't drink are kids and ex-alcoholics or people who have dealt with the effects of being close to or related to ex-alcoholics that can still be saved from alcohol.

Oh I know what these conventions are all about and I'd like to go to one sometime when I get my finances caught up just for the heck of it. But yes drinking is far more socially acceptable, but if some random hyrule town girl smoked a joint with Link or coherced him to smoking some crystal meth it would be way off the wall. More likely a random Hyrule town girl can probably sneak a date rape drug in his mead or wine. But I still doubt that scenario will be in a future Zelda game anytime soon.

Originally Posted by tyranus009

i just think that link should go w/ zelda because of the fact that hes constantly saving her a**. after a while, that would build up a special kind of bond between them which would eventually (if it hasnt happened already) blossom into love.

^ I guess you could say that. I don't know if Link might get annoyed with it all, but knowing him, he isn't that kind of boy. He just might be very concerned for her.

In OoT when Link and Zelda were high up in the clouds, he didn't looked annoyed with her, but thanked her. That was a pretty tense part of the game. I guess you could feel a sense of romance in the air between the two. Maybe he loves her in a way that he cares for her.

If he was annoyed with her, why would he bother putting his life on the line to save her from Ganondorf's hands?

Originally Posted by Ganonslayer2000

Oh I know what these conventions are all about and I'd like to go to one sometime when I get my finances caught up just for the heck of it. But yes drinking is far more socially acceptable, but if some random hyrule town girl smoked a joint with Link or coherced him to smoking some crystal meth it would be way off the wall. More likely a random Hyrule town girl can probably sneak a date rape drug in his mead or wine. But I still doubt that scenario will be in a future Zelda game anytime soon.

It doesn't have to be in a future Zelda game. Really, all these scenarios that are thought up are just scenarios that are thought up. With these new revelations of how there are 3 possible descendents of OoT Link, really, my most recent scenarios have the most ground to them, whether he was just not loyal or was drunk or drugged by women who can't take no for an answer, my most recent guesses are the only ones so far that support the existence of all 3 possible descendents that exist in TP (dead or alive).

Heh, a drunk Link? That'd be funny to watch! I can just see him zig-zaging off in a random direction claiming he has to save someone! I wonder if riding a horse while drunk is illegal or as dangerous as driving?

And a girl "stealing Links' seed' seems more likely then him being some kind of 'wanna be pimp' or a cheater.

Well, Link wouldn't be some "wannabe pimp", just someone who may lose control of his impulses. There are multiple attractive women who want him. And even if he doesn't find Ruto all that attractive, she seems to have a tendency to walk around completely naked. This would especially work for this theory if she were to be able to temporarily magically change to a hylian. I doubt that race-changing spells would magically cause clothes to appear, so this would generate problems for Link's common sense and resistance to impulse. Of course, this is never even hinted at and the only reason I could have thought it up is that I've seen this element being used in at least 2 Zelda fan fics, which means that this particular argument is worthless. But still, I imagine Link would get at least a little horny from see even Ruto walking around completely naked. Impulses can be a strong thing.

Originally Posted by firsttsurugi

It doesn't have to be in a future Zelda game. Really, all these scenarios that are thought up are just scenarios that are thought up. With these new revelations of how there are 3 possible descendents of OoT Link, really, my most recent scenarios have the most ground to them, whether he was just not loyal or was drunk or drugged by women who can't take no for an answer, my most recent guesses are the only ones so far that support the existence of all 3 possible descendents that exist in TP (dead or alive).

It's entirely possible that all three of these TP possible descendants could be mere references and none are related. I still feel TP Link is the most likely to be directly related to OoT Link ( as per the Hero's Spirit's claims ) but another very likely one is Colin. ( and Rusl obviously ) Colin is the spitting image of kid Link from OoT and his father bears vague similarities. If I had to make a guess, I'd guess one of OoT Link's descendants married a human and this eventually led to Rusl. In this Rusl and Link could be distantly related explaining perhaps Link's presence in Ordon. Malon herself has likely descendants in Ordon too, ( Pergie, Malo and Talo ) possibly from a similar mechanism. However, I doubt her line is related to Link's. ( Colin and Link bear no resemblance to Malo and Talo ) If it's not, then she obviously didn't marry him.

I still am not buying the theory that Link would sleep around like is being suggested. Him consciously using a woman like that and then leaving for another seems like behavior totally inconsistent with the Link I know. I don't think aggression would win him either: bold and forward woman may chase him, but I doubt they'd keep him in the end.

Originally Posted by gliderpilotgirl

I still am not buying the theory that Link would sleep around like is being suggested. Him consciously using a woman like that and then leaving for another seems like behavior totally inconsistent with the Link I know. I don't think aggression would win him either: bold and forward woman may chase him, but I doubt they'd keep him in the end.

That's where alcohol comes in. What I'm saying is, Link will most likely drink when he's older. Come on, the only people of age that don't drink are ex-alcoholics. All these women have to do is wait until he drinks a little too much, maybe even coerce him a little to drink more, and his good judgement is out the door. Also, they could slip an additional drug that impairs judgement to speed up the process.

I never figured Colin to have any similarity to OoT Link. But that may be because 1) His hair isn't as unkept and wild as Link's hair is usually made to be and 2) Link is the only person in Ordon who looks normal in my opinion.

Originally Posted by firsttsurugi

That's where alcohol comes in. What I'm saying is, Link will most likely drink when he's older. Come on, the only people of age that don't drink are ex-alcoholics. All these women have to do is wait until he drinks a little too much, maybe even coerce him a little to drink more, and his good judgement is out the door. Also, they could slip an additional drug that impairs judgement to speed up the process.

I still think he's better than to let some shameless girl lead him off, inebriated or not. I'd like to think that for Ruto, Malon etc that they have enough good character to not do something like that. I know without a shadow of a doubt that Zelda wouldn't take advantage of him like that.
And that's not true about alcohol: plenty of people don't drink or if they do, they choose not to drink enough to get drunk.

Originally Posted by firsttsurugi

I never figured Colin to have any similarity to OoT Link. But that may be because 1) His hair isn't as unkept and wild as Link's hair is usually made to be and 2) Link is the only person in Ordon who looks normal in my opinion.

Compare him to kid Link from Smash Brothers Melee: Colin looks like a more realistic human version.

Anyways, I do agree that Link doesn't resemble the villagers really in the slightest. This was likely intentional to indicate he's not from there originally. ( My bets are on Castletown )

Whoop!!! go Zelda

I don't think there's any kind of solid proof or evidence in, say, Ocarina of Time to indicate that Link feels one way or another about most of the chicas. One of the things I love about OoT is the amount of creative freedom you can have in imagining the deeper story.

In Twilight Princess, on the other hand, Link had very clear facial expressions and what have you, and I think it was much more arguable that he was in love with Midna than any other female character (although I'd also believe that he had a thing for Ilia originally, and that maybe he and Ilia ended up together after Midna left).

In OoT, though, I think you could probably make thousands of arguments for one girl or another, and you're just going in circles. Of course, I don't see a problem with having a pairing preference. I certainly have one. I prefer to see Link with Malon, for several reasons, and I'm not such a fan of the Link-Zelda pairing. Before anyone goes all, "BUT HE ALWAYS SAVES ZELDA!" I know that. I'm not going to make any arguments because that's boring and everyone is just going like the pairing they already like.

Originally Posted by gameboypaul

I think it depends on what game it is.

OoT: Malon
MM: None
LoZ: Zelda
AoL: Zelda
LA: Malon
OoS & OoA: Zelda
TP: Ilia
WW & PH : Tetra/Zelda
FS & FSA: Zelda

i say it dosent matter what game zelda and link are cute together