The Romance Thread IV: The Debate Continues

Originally Posted by Ganonslayer2000

I don't have enough creativity to do a fan fic but if I did I would definitely have Illia killed off. Like she can be taking Epona away from Link again for no apparent reason and Epona gets upset and knocks Illia down to the ground and then slams a hoof on her huge ugly head and busts her skull open. Then Link stands over her and says "serves you right" as she lays there in tears of sorrow and regret on being such a brat in always taking epona away as she fades into death.

Back on topic: What about romance in Soul Caliber Link?? I'd say Sophitia or Cassandra mainly because they have swords and shields like Link and that he shares the same signature fighting background as they do.

IDK, Talim is a bit closer to his age, and seems to fit more into his personality traitss.

Oh yeah, Talim is a good option for him as well. Mainly with your points on closeness of age and personality traits. I've thought about Link with Ivy and Taki but it seems highly unlikely since Ivy would fit better with Raphael and Taki with Mitsurugi or Maxi. But SC Links best bets IMO are Talim, and maybe Cassandra, and Sophitia.

Sophitia is married, but I have heard of LinkxCassandra, and I've always thought of Talim as a possibility, but I believe SC2 Link is the same as OoT/MM Link, and it stated that he went back to Hyrule after you beat arcade mode with him.

OOPS I forgot Sophitia was married so I guess that eliminates that option. Unless Link tries to get her to cheat on her husband, but that would go against Links character I guess.

Unless she never mentions her husband and never brings him home with her.

I've never played SC but it's a fighting game, right? Does it even have a storyline with characters interacting???

Its just a fighting game and if there is a storyline its in Weapon Master mode where I'm like a Legendary Edgemaster of the Dragon/Phoenix or something like that. Anyway..I just got bored and decided to discuss Soul Caliber Link for a change thats all.

Nah, i think that the SC Link is his own. He's younger than TP Link, but older than OoT Link.

Originally Posted by Ganonslayer2000

Its just a fighting game and if there is a storyline its in Weapon Master mode where I'm like a Legendary Edgemaster of the Dragon/Phoenix or something like that. Anyway..I just got bored and decided to discuss Soul Caliber Link for a change thats all.

I didn't even know that there was a Legendary Edgemaster rank. I've gotten all the way to platinum, then I used an Action Replay and got Ultimate Edgemaster.

Originally Posted by Alter

Nah, i think that the SC Link is his own. He's younger than TP Link, but older than OoT Link.

I personally wouldn't even try to put SC into continuity, along with Smash Brothers or the CD-i games.

Anyways, I recall hearing that in that game, Link's battle cry is apparently the Japanese version of Zelda's name. ( Zeruda ) Can someone who's played SC confirm this?

[QUOTE=gliderpilotgirl;2267337]
I personally truly enjoy a well thought out and passionate post, even if I don't agree!
QUOTE]

Same here. Honestly, I don’t expect anyone here to agree with me. In fact, I don’t think that a single person here is going to succeed in changing anyone’s opinions; most people have had their minds made up for years now. I’m simply trying to get people to see that, despite how unpopular she may be, Ruto is a legitimate choice, and a fairly accurate case can be made for her.

Originally Posted by gliderpilotgirl

But are baby platypus's born as babies or tadpoles? ( like Zoras, from MM ) Are they truly amphibious or air breathing like mammals? I can see the biology of an air breathing baby ( Hylian ) crossing with a tadpole ( a Zora ) causing some problems. Maybe or maybe not.

Possibly, but it is also possible that it would pose no problems at all. I believe it was stated somewhere that Zoras are born with both lungs and gills, even though they do not use their lungs until they grow legs and leave the water. If this is true, and baby Zoras are born with both, then it is unlikely that having Hylian DNA would do much to upset the system.

Originally Posted by gliderpilotgirl

I'm not sure he outright hid it so much as maybe blushed or looked sheepish, we'll never know. But anyways, my personal belief is that Link is the type to keep his feelings to himself, and may have wanted this truth ( if so ) kept secret.

If it had happened that way, then it probably would have pointed to a LinkXZelda relationship. Unfortunately, the N64 doesn’t let us see the characters’ expressions in that much detail, making it uncertain what actually happened. I have always viewed it as yet another Link-talks-but-we-don’t-see-it moment. We’re never given any clear indication of Link’s personality, either, because Nintendo always seems to like letting us pretend to be the hero, and letting us create our own personality. Still, if my theory was correct, and Link was actively trying to hide it, then it would seem to point towards him having deeper feelings for Ruto.

Once again, I would like to draw attention to the importance of looking at the descendants of the various love interests. Rutela, while it is never specifically stated in-game, nevertheless possesses numerous features that can be identified with OoT Link. TP Zelda, however, does not seem to possess any such features. I don’t see any, anyway; perhaps I’m not looking hard enough. Once again, and this is just my impression, I got the feeling that Rutela was designed as a little nod by Nintendo to encourage the RutoXLink relationship.

The OoT ending reminds me of the proverb, "if you love something, let it go. If it returns to you, it was and always will be yours."

TP makes it more vague what happens afterwords, but I choose to think that Zelda let Link go back to Ordon village, but in the end he chose to return to her. I also like to imagine a parallel between Link leaving Ordon and Midna leaving Hyrule. Midna left for the greater good of all, while Link left for the greater good of his world.

Originally Posted by Sirius B

The OoT ending reminds me of the proverb, "if you love something, let it go. If it returns to you, it was and always will be yours."

That is exactly what I take out of the ending and why I feel so strongly about the two of them being meant for each other. We get closure for everyone else...Ruto and Saria are with the Sages, Malon is obliviously happy with Epona, yet for Zelda and Link, it feels incomplete until they reunite. I will always love OoT best because of the feeling of satisfaction I got when he returned to her. ( A lover returning to a beloved is a huge romantic plot device )

Originally Posted by SecondStallord

Same here. Honestly, I don’t expect anyone here to agree with me. In fact, I don’t think that a single person here is going to succeed in changing anyone’s opinions; most people have had their minds made up for years now. I’m simply trying to get people to see that, despite how unpopular she may be, Ruto is a legitimate choice, and a fairly accurate case can be made for her.

I agree a good case can be made for her, which is why I went for the scene that seemed to veto her to support my argument. ( I'd do the same for Saria ) In terms of popularity, it's unimportant. My impression from these sites seems to be that Ilia is by far not the most popular, yet I can't disqualify her in my head on those grounds.

Originally Posted by SecondStallord

If it had happened that way, then it probably would have pointed to a LinkXZelda relationship. Unfortunately, the N64 doesn’t let us see the characters’ expressions in that much detail, making it uncertain what actually happened. I have always viewed it as yet another Link-talks-but-we-don’t-see-it moment. We’re never given any clear indication of Link’s personality, either, because Nintendo always seems to like letting us pretend to be the hero, and letting us create our own personality. Still, if my theory was correct, and Link was actively trying to hide it, then it would seem to point towards him having deeper feelings for Ruto.

In the interest of keeping this argument going, I'll just add this. If Link did have feelings for Ruto, I can see him truthfully denying feelings for Zelda. However, I don't think the game would leave any question in our minds if that was the case. The implication here was that Link was hiding something. If he did love Ruto, he'd have nothing to hide and I'd expect more to be followed up in the game's ending when the plot threads are tied up. That's also my biggest beef with the Malon case, as well as Romani and Cremia...they never follow it up, merely leave it open: "[Link] could get used to this..." and etc. Zelda's importance to Link is echoed in the implication of the ending.
Anyways, back to my point: There would be no doubt if that was the case, IMO. The statement itself again also catches my eye because the exact same tactic confirms the very obvious Link/Tetra relationship early in WW.

Originally Posted by SecondStallord

Once again, I would like to draw attention to the importance of looking at the descendants of the various love interests. Rutela, while it is never specifically stated in-game, nevertheless possesses numerous features that can be identified with OoT Link. TP Zelda, however, does not seem to possess any such features. I don’t see any, anyway; perhaps I’m not looking hard enough. Once again, and this is just my impression, I got the feeling that Rutela was designed as a little nod by Nintendo to encourage the RutoXLink relationship.

I will admit the thought had crossed my mind about Rutella's origins because of her humanoid appearance. However, you can make the same case for TP Link inheriting ranching skills from Malon or Zelda's sword skills coming from a certain great-something grandfather.
To address Zelda directly, obviously her fighting skill and archery can be used, but she shares other similarities. For one, to look at her. OoT Link and Zelda are similar in looks so you can't conclude anything but she looks somewhat like him, at least the art of his OoT version. She's also wearing brown boots and has her hair tied like one of his caps. If I wanted to imagine Link's daughter with Zelda, I'd imagine her to look exactly like TP Zelda. I'd also imagine her personality to match, TP Zelda seems much more introverted and serious, much like the Link of OoT and MM.

Another point I've seen brought up before is the significance of the Zora Armor: one poster suggested it was Link's royal Zoran armor from a marriage to Ruto. I use the same tactic on the Magic Armor found in the Malo Mart. Obviously made for someone who is both Link and a Prince/King, it's too specific to be anything else than the matching armor of Zelda's consort. To counter the Ruto argument, I can call the Zora Armor merely a reference to King Zora and OoT.

Maybe, just maybe, OoT/MM Link was not exactly the person that people make him out to be. To be honest, you can never see any real character development as far as Link goes. Sure, everyone else usually develops at some point, but for Link, all that happens is that he is given a task and he does it. His actions only tell us that he's good at doing what he's told. Also, the scene with Zelda in MM does not state that Link had feelings for her, all it showed was that Zelda most likely had feelings for him. Also, the manga is not canon, so the line in your sig, glider, is not all that relevant. Now, we have 2 people in TP with a resemblance to Link, and a person who is known to be Link's decendant, and come on, if we were to put men in Hyrule in a line up, anybody could tell you which one was Link. That leaves 3 women in OoT that could have possibly carried descendents into TP. Of course, this thread is not actually about marriage, it's about who is it that people believed Link had romantic feelings for and possibly went through romantic actions with. Basically, this means that it is not limited to Link being with one person. It means that Link, while possibly maintaining a single, main relationship, could have been with other women. So, even if he had chosen Zelda, Malon, or Ruto, it is very much possible that he was not particularly loyal to that one choice. Now, it is known that multiple women have feelings for him. We know that Zelda, Malon, Ruto, and Saria were definite. Nabooru is also quite interested in how Link turns out as an adult. Now, just take out Saria, due to obvious reasons, and you have 4 eligible women who want him. Now, maybe I'm just figuring him as having the personality of an average late-teen/young adult (god forbid), but I wouldn't put it past him to take up an opportunity like that. Remember, OoT/MM Link's adult mind is never actually revealed, so you can't put infidelity past him just because you believe that he was a noble person who only had room in his heart for one. In other words, he's a guy, he doesn't think with his heart, he thinks with a certain body part a little further down south!

As for TP Zelda's personality, I think her "serious" demeanor comes from the fact that we never see her childhood form, and because she's just seen her kingdom conquered and its people killed, which would no doubt make anyone rather depressed. I imagine her personality to be essentially identical to her OoT one (I heard that the developers originally intended her to have the Sheik persona, but that idea was scrapped and only used in SSBB).


Now, if Link were to marry Ruto, there's the problem of culture. I'd wager that the Zora people have a different culture, different customs, and a different outlook on the world. Then there's the whole bit about them being aquatic while Hylians are decidedly land-dwelling. In addition, Ruto serves the Zora people, while Link serves the people of Hyrule in general. Their responsibilities lie in different places, which is the same reason I'd argued against Link and Midna ever going back to each other.

Also, a lot of people would find an intimate relation between the two somewhat revolting. This is because Ruto's appearance, while generally "humanoid," is too different from human appearance to trigger what we consider attractive. The same might go for Link, too, and I can't see him being physically attracted to her when she's so radically different from the people he's seen before.

Originally Posted by firsttsurugi

he's a guy, he doesn't think with his heart, he thinks with a certain body part a little further down south!

I think that's a little sexist...


"If I wanted to imagine Link's daughter with Zelda, I'd imagine her to look exactly like TP Zelda."

Not that I'm arguing against you, but how is that? OoT Link and Zelda both have blonde hair and blue eyes. TP Zelda has brown hair and (I don't recall the colour of her eyes). How would TP Zwlda qualify as OoT Link and Zelda's child?

Originally Posted by firsttsurugi

he's a guy, he doesn't think with his heart, he thinks with a certain body part a little further down south!

I think that's a little sexist...


"If I wanted to imagine Link's daughter with Zelda, I'd imagine her to look exactly like TP Zelda."

Not that I'm arguing against you, but how is that? OoT Link and Zelda both have blonde hair and blue eyes. TP Zelda has brown hair and (I don't recall the colour of her eyes). How would TP Zelda qualify as OoT Link and Zelda's child?

Originally Posted by firsttsurugi

Also, the scene with Zelda in MM does not state that Link had feelings for her, all it showed was that Zelda most likely had feelings for him.

I'd argue that him slipping into memories at the mere thought of her states more about his feelings than anything else. I can't help but think of the old cliche "your life flashing before your eyes" in this situation. He's having a vivid recollection of an emotionally potent moment in the face of his impending death. I'd wager it speaks highly of her importance to him.
Yes, I suppose you can bring up the "plot device" argument to state it was only a way to re-teach the Song of Time, but it was gracefully and beautifully done. In a game where we are constantly manipulated into having feelings, I sincerely doubt this scene was accidental in achieving that.

Originally Posted by firsttsurugi

Also, the manga is not canon, so the line in your sig, glider, is not all that relevant.

I never said it was canon. The line's in my sig because it came from a literary moment that really touched me.
As for the canon-ness of the manga, this has been repeatedly brought up. I don't pretend to hold it on par with the games, but it bears mentioning that Aonuma ( the current head of the Zelda development team ) was the consultant on the Akira Himekawa mangas. ( OoT, MM, MC, OoS and OoA, FS/A and new ALTTP ) To what extent he assisted I don't know, but I find it hard to believe he would allow something so blatantly wrong ( the Link x Zelda thing if this is the case ) to be so heavily developed on in something with his and Nintendo's name attached. Trahald's articles bring developer intention into the debate...well, here's something the dev's had input in, and it's solidly Zelda x Link. It should be considered.

Originally Posted by firsttsurugi

Now, maybe I'm just figuring him as having the personality of an average late-teen/young adult (god forbid), but I wouldn't put it past him to take up an opportunity like that. Remember, OoT/MM Link's adult mind is never actually revealed, so you can't put infidelity past him just because you believe that he was a noble person who only had room in his heart for one. In other words, he's a guy, he doesn't think with his heart, he thinks with a certain body part a little further down south!

He's still a hero with a pure and good heart. Usually when I think of someone with those attributes, I think of one who considers the feelings of others before himself. If Link went from girl to girl, he wouldn't be doing that. It would be selfishness in him taking what he could get, regardless of the feelings of who he leaves behind. As for him showing interest in multiple girls..I can see it happening, especially when he's a kid. But I doubt he'd act on it when he grew older.

Edit: Disregard, go to my next post.

Originally Posted by gliderpilotgirl

I personally wouldn't even try to put SC into continuity, along with Smash Brothers or the CD-i games.

Anyways, I recall hearing that in that game, Link's battle cry is apparently the Japanese version of Zelda's name. ( Zeruda ) Can someone who's played SC confirm this?

If I remember right, Link said something like "seiya!" when he performed certain moves, but he never spoke anything other than he usual grunts and cries.