The Romance Thread IV: The Debate Continues

gotta be between zelda and midna

Originally Posted by firsttsurugi

It's not the personality... it's the tights. Though I'll admit that TP Link and MM/Kid Link don't wear them, since MM/Kid Link just wears the Tunic and TP Link has some kind of linen pants, I believe.

While I'm still dead set on LinkxMalon for OoT, LinkxZelda can only be argued by either LinkxMidna if one found a way to cross over to the others world, or maybe LinkxAshei. Who came up with the idea that Ashei is some kind of Amazon warrior, anyway? The only thing that points to that is that she has a sword and she adventures to a place that seems to me like the exact opposite of the Amazon, and she doesn't strike me as an abusive or controlling women. She tends to be someone who keeps her cool and rarely lets her emotions show.

It was probably me but I really meant it in a good way. In a way I think Link needs a woman that can make a real man out of him and Ashei would be a good love interest to actually bring the manly macho lover man out of him.

At the same time I agree with the consensus for TP that Zelda and Midna are the most likely love candidates but I still like Ashei despite lack of game evidence to their possible romance.

Originally Posted by Ganonslayer2000

It was probably me but I really meant it in a good way. In a way I think Link needs a woman that can make a real man out of him and Ashei would be a good love interest to actually bring the manly macho lover man out of him.

So... You're saying he's a wuss? The kind of sensitive guy who like daisys and talking about his feelings? Somehow, I don't think someone who fights through hordes of mosters and defeats an evil king is really that kind of person.

Only personality wise. But I think thats the interesting aspect of Links character is on one hand he is a cartoonishly oversubmissive doormat and on the other he is a brutal killing machine.

Originally Posted by Blackfire667

So... You're saying he's a wuss? The kind of sensitive guy who like daisys and talking about his feelings? Somehow, I don't think someone who fights through hordes of mosters and defeats an evil king is really that kind of person.

He could actually still be somewhat like that (though not so exagerated), as in he would normally be less inclined to fight, kind of like Gohan until he became a Super Saiyan 2, but when he has a cause, such as saving those dear to him or saving all of Hyrule, something unlocks inside of him. Again, referring to Gohan for an example, Gohan was perfectly capable combat-wise to become a "brutal killing machine", as shown by his previous bursts of power against Raditz as well as similar bursts in movies such as The Dead Zone, and he was always being trained by Goku, but he hated fighting and refused to fight Cell at full force until Cell angered him to the point where he used his power to the fullest extent. In Link's case, he is perfectly capable of fighting hordes of monsters, but is less inclined to do so unless he has a reason. Each time he has fought, it was to save someone (such as Talo in the very beginning) or save the world. Of course, in all honesty, I don't believe that to be the case, but it isn't a complete stretch to imagine "Link the Badass Killing Machine" to actually be "Link in Ganonslayer's Mind".

The Dragonball Z reference is dead on on how I see Link's personality. Forgive my casual anime cartoon network ignorance but if I remember correctly, Gohan grew up and married a tough girl similar to Ashei. And her dad is a comical karate champ with silly big hair. Anyway..if thats it then IMO a LinkxAshei pairing is more possible. YAAAYY (Ducks and Runs)

I have always personally thought that Zelda is the one for Link in most of the games.

She and him were really close in OoT and her as Tetra in both WW and PH, they really are close in a true friendship way that might develop into something deeper.

Not really sure, but I believe in Zelda and Link to be together.

Forgive my confusion, but now we're calling Link a pacifist until 'push coms to shove'? I mean: sure he doesn't seem like the type to go around mugging people because he's bored, but you really think he'd shun any form of violence unless absolutely nessicary (incorrect spelling, I know) ?

Also, I haven't seen an episode of DBZ in years, what happend to now?

I think the "pushover" aspect to Link is more because of the game design than his character. A quest has to be introduced, and an easy way to do it is have someone tell Link "this has be done! Go do it!" and you, the player, in anticipation of the reward immediately go do it.

Alright, I’m starting to get really sick of all the people here saying how “unlikely” or “impossible” the RutoXLink pairing is. The truth is, like it or not, that Ruto is a legitimate candidate in this debate. In fact, I’ve been thinking long and hard about it, and I’ve come to the conclusion that she is actually one of the most likely choices out of all of them. There are many reasons for this decision, which I will now discuss. (Warning: LONG!)

The first thing I would like to call attention to is the complete and total lack of evidence against the relationship. There are many points that have been brought up in various arguments against it, but none of these things hold any validity whatsoever. To put it simply, all of the evidence used thus far against Ruto has been based on misconceptions. Let’s begin by looking at each argument individually.

“Ruto is a sage, and sages cannot marry”: This statement is completely false. The argument most likely originated from the scene in the Chamber of the Sages after the Water Temple, in which Ruto says “As a reward... I grant my eternal love to you. Well, that's what I want to say, but I don't think I can offer that now. I have to guard the Water Temple as the Sage of Water...” Many have clearly interpreted this to mean that, as a sage, she can no longer offer Link her love. In reality, however, she is more likely referring to the fact that she must guard the water temple against Ganondorf. Notice that she says that she cannot offer her love now, not anymore, or some other word choice that implies a permanent celibacy.
Also remember that this occurs in a completely separate timeline. At the end of the game, Link is sent back to his childhood, to live out his life in a timeline completely separate from the adult one seen in OoT. There is no indication that the sages of the adult timeline even become sages in the child timeline. In fact, the presence of several completely different sages in Twilight Princess seems to indicate that they don’t, thus making the sage argument even more irrelevant.

“Ruto is a Zora, and is thus incompatible with Link, who is a Hylian”: Once again, we are never offered any indication whatsoever that the two species are incompatible. The Legend of Zelda is set in a fantasy world, a world that is inhabited by no less than dozen (possibly more) sentient, sapient races, all with roughly the same anatomy and features. It is quite possible, even probable, that the races are fully capable of mixing. (Compare this to The Lord of the Rings, in which it is made quite clear that men and elves can mix.)
This theory is supported in Majora’s Mask, in which the Treasure Chest Shop lady flirts with Zora Link. This is very significant, as Nintendo would not have put that into the game if they had intended the two races to be incompatible with one another. Besides, even if, by some chance, Hylians and Zoras were incompatible, Link still possesses the Zora Mask, allowing him to become a Zora and defeating this argument, as well.

“Link dislikes/is afraid of Ruto”: This argument most likely arose from a misinterpretation of events. In the water temple, Ruto mentions their engagement, and Link backs away, looking shocked. Now many have assumed, as did I at first, that Link was backing away in shock or disgust at the realization of their engagement.
However, think about it this way: while Link was sealed away for seven years, his body continued to mature. His mind, on the other hand did not; as evidenced by the dialogue with both Rauru and the Deku Sprout. Link, as a child, did not understand what an “engagement” was, having grown up in the Kokiri Forest and far away from such issues. Skip ahead seven years to the scene in the water temple; Ruto again brings up the subject, and Link reacts in shock. Now, if he, as a child, didn’t understand the word “engagement,” I find it extremely unlikely that he, still having the mind of a child, would understand an even more difficult word like “fiancé.”
A far more likely explanation would be that Link was not reacting to that part of her sentence at all. Remember that the very same text box after which the shocked animation plays is also the one in which Ruto introduces herself. Look at it this way: Link, after having woken up after seven years, has traveled all across Hyrule, and has already met up with nearly everyone he had met as a child. The interesting thing is that nearly none of them have changed at all. Saria is the same, as are all of the Kokiri. Darunia and the Gorons, King Zora, all of the various NPCs, Talon, Ingo; everyone looks exactly the same. Malon has grown up, yes, but she is still instantly recognizable by her appearance and behavior. Enter Ruto, who has changed drastically; almost to the point where she can’t even be recognized as the same person. Not only has she matured physically, but she mentally as well, and Link most likely did not recognize her at first. Simply, Link is reacting in shock Ruto’s revealing her identity, not their engagement.

“Ruto is a bossy, spoiled brat, and unsuitable for Link”: This is yet another testimony to the unfortunate power of first impressions. It’s true that Ruto was quite bratty while inside Jabu-Jabu’s belly; but after Link saved her, her personality took a complete reversal. I believe I’ve even read somewhere in an official character guide that when Link saved her, she “felt something stirring within her cold heart.” When Link meets her in the Water Temple, Ruto has gone from being a brat to being someone who cares deeply about her people and would do anything to save them. She seems to have a momentarily relapse when she first sees Link, saying “I never forgot the vows we made to each other seven years ago! You're a terrible man to have kept me waiting for these seven long years...”, but she quickly catches herself and says “But my father and the other Zoras have not... yet... I want to save them all! I want to save Zora's Domain!” The truth is, that while Ruto is very bossy when Link first meets her, she makes a drastic character change by the end of the game, and becomes quite mature.

“Eww, Nasty! What would their kids look like!?”: So? Who Cares? This doesn’t hold any relevance to the argument whatsoever.

--

Now that I have dispelled all of the arguments against Ruto, it’s time to look at some of the arguments made for her competitors. Each of the other possible love interests will be covered here, along with a rating showing how likely they truly are.

Zelda: Without question, the Princess of Hyrule seems to be the most popular love interest among the fan community. However, she is also one of the most unlikely to be the one Link actually ends up with. While it is true that there is almost no evidence against this pairing, there has also never been even a single indication that Link and Zelda will end up together, either. There are several scenes that fans attempt to interpret romantically; but, in the end are likely not romantic at all. I will not discuss each of these scenes here, so I recommend that you read Trahald’s “Ocarina of... Love?” article here on this site; as he explains it all quite well.
Likelihood: 3/10

Malon: Once again, Malon is a very popular candidate among the fans. Unlike Zelda, however, Malon actually has some evidence that supports her case. First of all, when you beat Talon’s cucoo catching game, he jokingly asks if Link if he wants to marry Malon. Second of all, there is the gossip stone outside of the Temple of Time that seems to imply that Malon likes Link, or at least Link’s type. However, it is important to remember that neither of these things can be taken too seriously: Talon, as he said, was just making a joke; and the gossip stone was doing just that: gossiping.
Also note that absolutely nothing involving Marin, Cremia, or Romani can be used as evidence in support of Malon. Even though Malon was based on Marin, and Cremia and Romani were based on Malon, one must remember that, within the game universe, they are all completely different people with no connection to each other whatsoever. If Marin and Link had any kind of a love connection, it would only apply to Marin, and not to Malon in any way.
Liklihood: 6/10

Saria: Saria is also a fairly popular choice, although nowhere near as popular as the first two. She is probably my personal favorite; but, unfortunately, she is also the most unlikely and impossible of them all. She is a Kokiri, and Link is a Hylian. Even if the two species are biologically compatible, it still would not work out as Saria will remain a child forever, whereas Link will grow up naturally. It would be far too awkward and unnatural for an old man and a 10-year old girl to be together. It’s sad, but it’s the truth.
Likelihood: 1/10

Naburoo: The leader of the Gerudos is not a very popular choice among fans, but it is a legitimate choice, and so I will address it. Naburoo is quite unlikely, as she is roughly double Link’s age. There is one instance in the game where she seems to flirt with Link, but given the age difference, and the fact that she is a thief, there is far more evidence against her than there is for her.
Likelihood: 2/10

Midna/Ilia/Ashei/Hena/Anyone else from TP: All completely irrelevant. These are all love interests of a completely different Link than the one we are discussing in this topic. In my opinion, they should not even be on this poll, as the Link that we have been discussing since the first thread has never even met them, and lived a full century before them. If someone wishes to debate Twilight Princess relationships, a separate poll or a separate thread should be made to discuss them.
Likelihood: 0/10


--
Myths have been debunked, competitors have been rejected; now it is time to address the final issue in my argument: the evidence supporting a LinkXRuto relationship. There’s a lot more than you’d think:

1. First, and most obviously, they are engaged. Now, it is true that Link had no idea what he was doing when he accepted the Sapphire, but that doesn’t change anything in my opinion. Nintendo has never given us any evidence as to whether or not Link returned the Spiritual Stones after the events of the game, but it is clear that they were still in the temple when Link was returned to the past at the end of the game. If you look in the background as Link replaces the Master Sword, you can clearly see the Door of Time standing open. Now, as we all know, the Door of Time cannot be open if the Stones are not present on the altar outside, proving that they must be there. They are not visible in the cutscene, because, if you remember, they remain unloaded until you cross through the dark line in the hallway into their room.
Link may have returned the Sapphire, but I don’t see any reason that he would have broken off the engagement. I have already explained why I do not believe that Link disliked her.

2. There is, just as there is with Malon, a gossip stone saying that Ruto likes Link. It is located at Lake Hylia, and says “they say that I have already made my point that the things that gossip stones say should not necessarily be trusted; however, if the one relating to Malon is to be used as evidence by her supporters, then the one relating to Ruto can equally be used as evidence.

3. Now, I have not seen this final theory before on this site, although I have on other sites in the past. If you have not heard this theory before on another site, then you heard it here first.
The theory to which I am referring relates to Queen Rutela, whom you meet in Twilight Princess. From the moment you first meet her, it is quite obvious that Rutela has many features unusual to those of a typical Zora. The first of these features you are likely to notice is that she appears to have hair, or at least scales resembling hair. Nevertheless, it is highly unusual for a Zora to have hair whatsoever. Even more unusual however, is the fact, not only does she seem to have hair, but blonde hair...
In addition to the color, Rutela’s “hair” is nearly identical in style to that of Link from OoT, especially around the bangs. Her bangs are in nearly the exact same “M”-shape as Link’s are. Also, Rutela’s skin is pinkish-white; drastically different from normal Zoran blue. She wears what appears to be a redesigned Zora’s Sapphire as a part of her outfit, which, as we know, was in Link’s possession at the end of Ocarina of Time. Finally, the Serenade of Water plays in the background whenever you encounter her, an obvious implication, as it is one of Link’s ocarina songs.
Even more suspicious than her appearance is her role in the game. She was executed by Zant (under direct orders from Ganondorf) as an example to those who would oppose him. Now, the question immediately arises: why Rutela? Why would Zant immediately go to the Zoras,%

Okay, I have to resist the urge to ignore all arguments that involve timelines, simply because the Zelda "timeline" is akin to the games throwing up their hands and going "I just don't know."

This statement is completely false.

This argument most likely arose from a misinterpretation of events.

I would avoid saying things like that, especially given how much of the games is left open to interpretation. It's difficult, if not impossible to say anything is "for certain" or "interpreted wrongly."

While it is true that there is almost no evidence against this pairing, there has also never been even a single indication that Link and Zelda will end up together, either.

There has never been a single indication Link ended up with ANYONE. Why? Because we never see what happens to Link after the game ends! Oh sure, there's some fanwank involving timelines and Link's supposed "descendants" but it's just that: speculation and fanwank.

Link may have returned the Sapphire, but I don’t see any reason that he would have broken off the engagement. I have already explained why I do not believe that Link disliked her.

He would have broken the engagement because:

-He did not know originally that taking it counted as a token of engagement.
-He needed it for something much more important

And while Link may not have "disliked" her that's a far cry from wanting to spend his life with her.

Enter Ruto, who has changed drastically; almost to the point where she can’t even be recognized as the same person. Not only has she matured physically, but she mentally as well, and Link most likely did not recognize her at first. Simply, Link is reacting in shock Ruto’s revealing her identity, not their engagement.

This makes no sense. Ruto looks exactly like what an adult Zora (which Link has seen before) would look like; it's not as if she sprouted two heads or her breasts are growing out of her back. And Link reacts in shock the moment she tells him about their "engagement" because it wasn't something he had been expecting when he got the stone from her.

How about Pinkle, Tingle's fairy assistant?

Originally Posted by Alter

How about Pinkle, Tingle's fairy assistant?

This thread is about LinkxSomeone. Pinkle was not in any of the games that Link is in so she is irrelivent. And about the RutoXLink arguement. He never even got engaged to her on the Child timeline. Who does he check on after he traveled back in time. He didn't climb up to Zora's Domain to rescue Ruto, he went to see Zelda again. Even Ruto admits that Link is attracted to Zelda.
YouTube - Ocarina Of Time - Receiving Water Medallion
I agree that LinkXSaria and LinkX Nabooru are unlikely. Link shows no attraction to Malon, though he shows attraction to Zelda even when she's disguised as a man. I agree that there should be a seperate thread for Tp Link's love interests.

Originally Posted by Blackfire667

Forgive my confusion, but now we're calling Link a pacifist until 'push coms to shove'? I mean: sure he doesn't seem like the type to go around mugging people because he's bored, but you really think he'd shun any form of violence unless absolutely nessicary (incorrect spelling, I know) ?

Not really a pushover as nerd/dork type but more like a Clark Kent/Superman way in how I see Link personality wise. Since DBZ is known to be the Japanese version of the Superman action hero style of plot, I include this as well in comparing how I see Link based on the games. Voice wise I imagine Link talking like the main protaganist on the anime Neon Genesis Evangelion that appeared on the Cartoon Network a few years back. I don't know the name of the VA but I think Link has a similar Gohan personality with the voice of the NGE character without the Emo nervous breakdowns.

Originally Posted by Ritogirl

This thread is about LinkxSomeone. Pinkle was not in any of the games that Link is in so she is irrelivent. And about the RutoXLink arguement. He never even got engaged to her on the Child timeline. Who does he check on after he traveled back in time. He didn't climb up to Zora's Domain to rescue Ruto, he went to see Zelda again. Even Ruto admits that Link is attracted to Zelda.
YouTube - Ocarina Of Time - Receiving Water Medallion
I agree that LinkXSaria and LinkX Nabooru are unlikely. Link shows no attraction to Malon, though he shows attraction to Zelda even when she's disguised as a man. I agree that there should be a seperate thread for Tp Link's love interests.

This only supports the point of view that think Link is gay than him being heterosexually attracted to Zelda since Zelda was disguised as a MAN.

Personally I just like to think of those scenes with Link/Sheikah as Link being curious that this Sheikah/ninja like character was more than meets the eye than him having a romantic feeling of any sort.

As for LinkXRuto, I have no problem as its hinted that Ruto likes Link, but as to whether shy and innocent Link would return the love thats debatable. The species arguement would make this relationship very strange and disturbingly erotic all at once but since many people have no problem with the LinkXMidna pairing, I don't see Ruto as a total impossibility anymore

[QUOTE=Ganonslayer2000;2260047]


This only supports the point of view that think Link is gay than him being heterosexually attracted to Zelda since Zelda was disguised as a MAN.
I see this as the kind of relationship betwwen Mr. Burns and Smithers on the Simpson's. Smithers would be attracted to Burns no matter who he is. I see OoT Link as the same way with Zelda.
Personally I just like to think of those scenes with Link/Sheikah as Link being curious that this Sheikah/ninja like character was more than meets the eye than him having a romantic feeling of any sort.
To each his own
As for LinkXRuto, I have no problem as its hinted that Ruto likes Link, but as to whether shy and innocent Link would return the love thats debatable. The species arguement would make this relationship very strange and disturbingly erotic all at once but since many people have no problem with the LinkXMidna pairing, I don't see Ruto as a total impossibility anymore
Please explain to me what you have against LinkxMidna she is a Twilli but look at her. She is basically a tall pale skinned Malon in appearence. Shipping MidnaxLink is like shipping LinkxIllia ( I hate Illia but she is a biliogicsally combatible ship. Link X Ruto however is just impossible. Fish reproduce ovipariously and externally. Humans anf Hylians reproduce viviparioisly and internally.[/QUOTE]

Comments in red.

I think you make good points, especially with Link being attracted to Sheikah as a man like Smithers to Mr.Burns. Its like maybe OOT Link was let down when he found out Sheikah was a woman

BTW I got no beef with LinkxMidna. I definitely like her over LinkxIllia anyday. As for RutoxLink, I would rather have Link breed with a fish than engage in a weird pedophile relationship with Saria so its like pick your poison. If it makes you feel better I like LinkxNabooru over LinkxRuto

Link will never marry, because he is in love with Marin, the woman who appeared in his dream that he unfavorably compares all others to.

Originally Posted by Wong Fei Hung

Link will never marry, because he is in love with Marin, the woman who appeared in his dream that he unfavorably compares all others to.

That's just ALttP Link. He also liked ALttp Zelda.
If you notice Marin isn't on the poll.

I think it depends on the game. For OoT it could be Zelda and/or Malon, for TP(toilet paper) it would be Ilia(Zelda looks like she's 30 or something),For WW it would be Tetra/Zelda, and for MM it would be da baby goron.

There are all kinds of statements in the long-winded RutoxLink argument I could 'nit-pick' but I'm not gonna bother going back and actually pointing them out, much too tedeious ( <---- spelling?). So I'm just gonna say: It would have to be SCI-FI for a humanoid species (Hilyan) to be with a FISH-PERSON. And, as was preveiously ( <--- spelling?) said: They reproduce in very different ways!