The Romance Thread IV: The Debate Continues

My question remains: who says that Link wants Malon over Zelda?

You are working on the assumption that if he was given the choice to walk to either, that he'd automatically walk to Malon. I disagree, and I think the games do too. In the end of OoT, Link was free to go...Zelda told him to go home and regain his childhood. He marches straight back to Zelda, or that's what the game wanted to leave us with in a very sentimental and emotional finale. In MM, she's the one to who he feels he owes a farewell to, despite the fact he's sneaking away from Hyrule on a personal quest as per the intro. In the end, the Happy Mask Salesman leaves you with this:
"Shouldn't you be returning home as well?
Whenever there is a meeting, a parting is sure to follow. However, that parting need not last forever...
Whether a parting be forever or merely for a short time...That is up to you."
It's very possible this was a tacit hint at Zelda. Anyways...there you go. We've seen Link be given choices that the player had no impact on, and he chooses Zelda. To me, it seems that the opinion for a Link x Malon pairing is one that derives from Malon's popularity mainly. I mean, we are given the option by Nintendo, but I see nothing to really back it up, game wise. You can always say " I am Link, so I choose Malon" and that's valid IMO, I just don't think Link independant from the player demonstrates this desire.

Originally Posted by Ganonslayer

Tell me gilderpilot, what other hero business would Link have after Ganon has been defeated?? Is Link just going to strut around the streets of Hyrule town posing with his hands on his hips saying "look at me...I'm a hero when a hero is no longer needed"

Simple. He goes to Zelda and says: "What do you need help with?" There is a huge variety of things for him to do. So she needs an envoy to the Gorons for instance. Maybe monsters are still bothering some dark corner of Hyrule. Maybe the military needs some training and shaping up. My point is still that his role can change. Look at Zelda as Sheik in OoT. She was massively different in appearance and job from traditional Zelda, and still Zelda.

Originally Posted by Ganonslayer

Yes I'm aware of the point you previously made with OOT/MM, but remember in MM, LINK IS A CHILD So romantic feelings are non existent for Link, even holding hands and butterfly kisses. It seems more likely to me in MM that Link sought adventure elsewhere because he was probably tired of Zelda keeping him around as a useless pet.

This actually fits better with the first part of this post. My question: can you prove Link was mentally a child? I'm going to take the opposite opinion: he was mature. The reason I believe this is because of the difference in the text given the player. The game treats Link as an Adult. Take for instance Ruto as a child...the game text seems to make it clear Link does not understand what "engagement" is, or I'd assume love as well.
As an Adult, Link instantly reacts in shock when Ruto declares her desire to give him her "eternal love". The implication was he understood exactly what was going on, and that's a change from his childhood. Same with the way he dealt with Saria and Darunia's Son. He displayed a maturity he lacked as a child.
I think when Link was returned to being a child at the beginning of MM...he lost this. It's once again said in MM that he doesn't understand these matters, although he clearly did from above as an Adult. I'm going to go with the OoT novel's interpretation of this:

Originally Posted by OoT novel

"Although a child once more, he still had his memories of when he'd been a teenager, and of his new-found love for Princess Zelda."

In terms of romance...I think Link can remember bits of how he felt about Zelda, even if not mature enough to understand them.

Originally Posted by firsttsurugi

Also, in OoT, any real romantic feelings that you think you see in him are all just illusions because you think he has them for a specific character.

Maybe, but the best way to hunt for evidence is to listen to what the other characters are telling you. In TP for instance, they all clearly told you how Link felt about Ilia. Anyways, OoT:
"and you..you are looking for the Princess, Zelda? Ha! you can't hide anything from me!" ( Ruto )
"There's nothing to worry about, the Princess is safe now. Soon you will meet her face to face..." ( Impa )
"The one who is waiting for you...waiting for you at the Temple of Time" ( Rauru )
"Waiting for us at the Temple of Time...could it be?"( Navi )

These are all quotes referring to Zelda. Ruto's implies that she inadvertantly discovered a secret, because Link must have reacted visibly. That's a classic way of finding out someone has feelings for another and this same tactic was employed in WW to implicate Link's feeling for Tetra. Impa's implies he's once again worried about Zelda: he wants to find her. Navi seems to imply a certain eagerness on Link's part to find someone...it's likely Zelda. In both these cases, the game is specifically pointing out Link's personal concern for Zelda. He rarely emotes in this game...so when he does ( like so ) I pay attention.

And to answer your question on child Link's maturity, yes he is the cute adorable cherub like elf boy who can handle a baby sword and an oversized shield quite well. But that is as far as his maturity goes. In the case of maturity pertaining to romance there is none. Implications that a small child can have sexual desire like a teenager is beyond ridiculous I'm afraid.

In regards to his post Ganon hero business, outside of training the Hyrule troops, the envoy crap and suppressing pockets of resistance still does not mean that its mandatory that he has to be with Zelda. He can do all these things being with someone else, whether that be Malon, Ruto, Nabooru, Ashei, even Saria or Illia. So IMO the whole hero business having to be that he is required to be with Zelda is totally irrelevant. If Link is with Zelda its because he made that decision himself, instead of this nonsensical notion his role as a hero requires that he has a romantic relationship with Zelda.

In the reason why I believe he may choose Malon over Zelda: I could be wrong, but I thought I remembered that me and you both agree that Malon is the type to make the first move on shy gullible Link, whereas Zelda is more the type to wait until Link grows out of his quiet soft spoken shell for him to finally make a romantic gesture first. Meanwhile, its very easy to imply that as Zelda waits for Link to make a move, Malon can easily coax sweet and gullible Link into being the partner she needs to run Lon Lon ranch. Hence again YOU SNOOZE YOU LOSE. In the end Link and Malon live happily ever after while Zelda sits on her throne alone with regret on what could have been if she had been just a little more forward similar to Malon on expressing her feelings for Link instead of waiting for him to overcome his mute shyness to make a move.

NOTE:This is just a theoretical possibility and nothing more. So I'm eager to know what your opinion is on what Zelda would do to deal with this dillema.

Originally Posted by Ganonslayer2000

And to answer your question on child Link's maturity, yes he is the cute adorable cherub like elf boy who can handle a baby sword and an oversized shield quite well. But that is as far as his maturity goes. In the case of maturity pertaining to romance there is none. Implications that a small child can have sexual desire like a teenager is beyond ridiculous I'm afraid.

Once again, I will repeat my strong opinion: romance is not based primarily on the physical aspects. At least many lasting relationships aren't. Look at WW/PH Link and Tetra..they are way too young to be even thinking that way yet it's clear they like each other.

Originally Posted by Ganonslayer2000

If Link is with Zelda its because he made that decision himself, instead of this nonsensical notion his role as a hero requires that he has a romantic relationship with Zelda.

Firmly agreed. I just think his close contact with Zelda increases the odds that romance will develop naturally.

Originally Posted by Ganonslayer2000

In the reason why I believe he may choose Malon over Zelda: I could be wrong, but I thought I remembered that me and you both agree that Malon is the type to make the first move on shy gullible Link, whereas Zelda is more the type to wait until Link grows out of his quiet soft spoken shell for him to finally make a romantic gesture first. Meanwhile, its very easy to imply that as Zelda waits for Link to make a move, Malon can easily coax sweet and gullible Link into being the partner she needs to run Lon Lon ranch.

NOTE:This is just a theoretical possibility and nothing more. So I'm eager to know what your opinion is on what Zelda would do to deal with this dillema.

^ Of course...it's the point of a debate. Nice to know my opinion is still desired.

Okay...but this still rests on Link wanting Malon...IMO, if he is so weak that he can taken by the more assertive woman regardless of who she is, than he was never worthy of Zelda to begin with.
She may not pursue him as openly, but that's because she has many other things to think about...her personal desires are irrelevant. If Link isn't able or willing to see past this, than again, he doesn't deserve her.

Originally Posted by Ganonslayer

Hence again YOU SNOOZE YOU LOSE. In the end Link and Malon live happily ever after while Zelda sits on her throne alone with regret on what could have been if she had been just a little more forward similar to Malon on expressing her feelings for Link instead of waiting for him to overcome his mute shyness to make a move.

Is that really the way romance is in real life? Does the more assertive woman always win? In my experience, it depends on the guy. A real man of quality can not be easily taken just because some available girl wants him and is willing to stop at nothing to get him.

As to how Zelda would react if Link theoretically chose Malon...have you ever seen the movie Sense and Sensibility? Zelda would be much like Elinor, but without the bitterness occasionally displayed. I imagine she'd do the right thing: keep Link as dear friend while releasing him to love who he chooses. Even if her heart suffered for it. However, Zelda would likely only remain alone by choice...not for lack of other pursuers.

To keep the debate going..how do you think Malon would react if Link chose Zelda?

If Link chose Zelda, Malon would definitely be upset, unless she had grown out of any interest in Link. She would definitely regret not doing a good job of securing Link as her own, but I'm sure she would get over it sooner or later, as opposed to if Nabooru wanted Link, in which case Nabooru would cut off Link's penis.

Also, to a previous point, when you said it was Zelda who he felt he needed to give a farewell to, you are forgetting that he obviously came in contact with Malon, as seen by his ownership of Epona. The only reason you see his farewell to Zelda is because the Ocarina of Time was enchanted to teach him the Song of Time since OoT. This enchantment probably reveals more to its power as he needs to use a specific power, as seen in MM when it revealed that it can change back time right before Link was crushed by the Moon. He probably also said goodbye to others in his life, such as Malon, but Zelda was the one that best fit the role of being in that particular flashback.

Originally Posted by gliderpilotgirl

Hmm...and this strikes me as a tricky situation. While I believe Link is natural in the military aspect, you are right in that a military has a hierarchy. But Link is very unconventional...and too famous and important to really fit in "the system". He's the kingdom's great hero...not a grunt following orders through a chain of command. He doesn't really fit anywhere. That's why I like to think of him assuming the throne next to Zelda: he'd by be default be the leader. He's already served in effect as her partner...planning, plotting, and fighting beside her. He doesn't really fit anywhere else, IMO.

Which Link are you talking about? The TP Link is the kingdoms hero, but in OoT, link wouldnt be recognized as a hero in the childs timeline. so I dont think he would become an instant general.

As for link being the soul mate of zelda, very likley to happen and a good match. however link neads to be careful or he would tick off a lot of people.

For example, Soldiers and generals wouldnt like somebody they never met before suddenly in command of them. Link is better off starting as a grunt, its the perfect role for him.

Originally Posted by James the red

Which Link are you talking about? The TP Link is the kingdoms hero, but in OoT, link wouldnt be recognized as a hero in the childs timeline. so I dont think he would become an instant general.

As for link being the soul mate of zelda, very likley to happen and a good match. however link neads to be careful or he would tick off a lot of people.

For example, Soldiers and generals wouldnt like somebody they never met before suddenly in command of them. Link is better off starting as a grunt, its the perfect role for him.

If he was to choose Zelda, than yes, he should enroll into the military at grunt status and make his way up with his many talents (all fitting into the main talent of being a master at something the moment he starts doing that something). Still, it shows in TP that OoT Link was definitely not involved with Zelda, and if he was, then I pray to god that Link either chooses Ilia or finds a way to the Twilight Realm, because if not, then that would be somewhat disturbing.

Originally Posted by firsttsurugi

If Link chose Zelda, Malon would definitely be upset, unless she had grown out of any interest in Link. She would definitely regret not doing a good job of securing Link as her own, but I'm sure she would get over it sooner or later, as opposed to if Nabooru wanted Link, in which case Nabooru would cut off Link's penis.

Also, to a previous point, when you said it was Zelda who he felt he needed to give a farewell to, you are forgetting that he obviously came in contact with Malon, as seen by his ownership of Epona. The only reason you see his farewell to Zelda is because the Ocarina of Time was enchanted to teach him the Song of Time since OoT. This enchantment probably reveals more to its power as he needs to use a specific power, as seen in MM when it revealed that it can change back time right before Link was crushed by the Moon. He probably also said goodbye to others in his life, such as Malon, but Zelda was the one that best fit the role of being in that particular flashback.

Malon wanted a knight-in-shining-armor but she was never specific about who . Link just fit the bill. While I definately see her being disappointed ( like Cremia with Kafei ) it wouldn't be near the blow to her that would be to Zelda. There's lots of fish in the sea, and I know Malon would easily move on.

Zelda on the other hand is cut off from contact with most outsiders, and Link was likely her only friend as well as her best friend. With Link, I see her having a rare chance at true love, versus the arranged marriage she would inevitably end up with otherwise. It's also much harder to fill the shoes of a king than that of a farmer. Not every man would be suitable for her.

Oh, I have no doubt that Link went to see Malon to gain Epona. But what mattered was that he had Epona, not how he got her. With Zelda, the developers put a large amount of emotion into the scene, and it was likely intentionally done. The Ocarina/Song of Time was also specifically pointed out by the game to remind Link of Zelda. They didn't have to: for instance the word "Malon" never comes up with Epona: they focus on the bond between Link and Epona. Any relationship with Cremia or Romani is independant of Malon.

To your second post two things: The Hero of Time is "ancient" which means hundreds of years. Relation between Link and Zelda would be irrelevant at this point due to their genetic resemblance fading over generations.
Also, Link and Zelda barely had even a friendship in TP...romance is a long ways away. Summing it up, IMO...the Hero of Time and his Princess Zelda's fates are irrelevant to TP Link and Zelda's.

So I suppose Link's choice in TP narrows down to:

A: Woman with limited horizons, but familiar (Ilia)
B: Woman with much broader horizons, but unfamiliar (Zelda)

As someone said, Link doesn't have to work very hard to get Ilia. All he has to do is keep doing what he was doing at the beginning of the game, provided they see each other in a romantic light). Now, if he wished to pursue Zelda (whether she would return his affections is a question that cannot really be answered given her limited development in TP), it would obviously be a greater chance and demand he become more than a mere goat herder.

Now, I can see the appeal in taking the easy path. But Link doesn't strike me as the sort to take the easy path, especially when the more challenging path is one that might be better for the kingdom.

Originally Posted by Sirius B

So I suppose Link's choice in TP narrows down to:

A: Woman with limited horizons, but familiar (Ilia)
B: Woman with much broader horizons, but unfamiliar (Zelda)

As someone said, Link doesn't have to work very hard to get Ilia. All he has to do is keep doing what he was doing at the beginning of the game, provided they see each other in a romantic light). Now, if he wished to pursue Zelda (whether she would return his affections is a question that cannot really be answered given her limited development in TP), it would obviously be a greater chance and demand he become more than a mere goat herder.

I agree, but even if Illia's character had been more developed, I probably would find her even more annoying than I already do. As if thats any more possible

Oh...your talking about Zelda...Yes I agree that Zelda's character in TP was underdeveloped but I like to think that after Link rides away from Illia, he heads back to Hyrule Castle to maybe pursue a relationship with Zelda. But in TP's vagueness, Link could be wanting to see Zelda to talk about trying to bring Midna back or maybe he wants to hook up with Ashei in Telma's bar. Who knows? I'm just glad that in TP I feel that Illia was bumped out of the romance equation. At least for me that is

Originally Posted by firsttsurugi

If Link chose Zelda, Malon would definitely be upset, unless she had grown out of any interest in Link. She would definitely regret not doing a good job of securing Link as her own, but I'm sure she would get over it sooner or later, as opposed to if Nabooru wanted Link, in which case Nabooru would cut off Link's penis.

LOL ROTF

Anyway, in reference to something else on another of your posts and James the Red. I can see Link entering the comical Hyrule military as a grunt only to become Chief General in less than a week. After that, since Nabooru probably made a man out of him after she had him trained in the thief/assasin martial arts, IMO it would be a good idea for Link to ask Zelda to permit him to make her the second in command next to him. And when Zelda is away I'm sure Nabooru will finally make good on her promise to Link on that passionately heartfelt romantic day in the Spirit Temple now that he is such a strong strapping young lad now. Yikes I hope gilderpilot does not read this

Originally Posted by gliderpilotgirl

Once again, I will repeat my strong opinion: romance is not based primarily on the physical aspects. At least many lasting relationships aren't. Look at WW/PH Link and Tetra..they are way too young to be even thinking that way yet it's clear they like each other.



Firmly agreed. I just think his close contact with Zelda increases the odds that romance will develop naturally.


^ Of course...it's the point of a debate. Nice to know my opinion is still desired.

Okay...but this still rests on Link wanting Malon...IMO, if he is so weak that he can taken by the more assertive woman regardless of who she is, than he was never worthy of Zelda to begin with.
She may not pursue him as openly, but that's because she has many other things to think about...her personal desires are irrelevant. If Link isn't able or willing to see past this, than again, he doesn't deserve her.



Is that really the way romance is in real life? Does the more assertive woman always win? In my experience, it depends on the guy. A real man of quality can not be easily taken just because some available girl wants him and is willing to stop at nothing to get him.

As to how Zelda would react if Link theoretically chose Malon...have you ever seen the movie Sense and Sensibility? Zelda would be much like Elinor, but without the bitterness occasionally displayed. I imagine she'd do the right thing: keep Link as dear friend while releasing him to love who he chooses. Even if her heart suffered for it. However, Zelda would likely only remain alone by choice...not for lack of other pursuers.

To keep the debate going..how do you think Malon would react if Link chose Zelda?

I agree that in WW TetraxLink is inevitable when they are older to start smooching and holding hands. Anyway, I never have considered myself a man of quality in the first place so instinctively for me, assertive women always get my romance mojo going. But to each his/her own I guess. But I do consider Link a man of quality and he should go to the girl he feels is right for him and not just force himself to choose. IMO uncommitted bachelor would make Link ideal for me I guess, but in TP its either Zelda/Midna OOT Zelda/Malon. And if Link did choose Zelda over Malon, I'm sure Malon would soon get over it and just hook up with Ingo.

[QUOTE=Ganonslayer2000;2235297]I agree, but even if Illia's character had been more developed, I probably would find her even more annoying than I already do. As if thats any more possible

Oh...your talking about Zelda...Yes I agree that Zelda's character in TP was underdeveloped but I like to think that after Link rides away from Illia, he heads back to Hyrule Castle to maybe pursue a relationship with Zelda. But in TP's vagueness, Link could be wanting to see Zelda to talk about trying to bring Midna back or maybe he wants to hook up with Ashei in Telma's bar. Who knows? I'm just glad that in TP I feel that Illia was bumped out of the romance equation. At least for me that is





LOL ROTF

Anyway, in reference to something else on another of your posts and James the Red. I can see Link entering the comical Hyrule military as a grunt only to become Chief General in less than a week. After that, since Nabooru probably made a man out of him after she had him trained in the thief/assasin martial arts, IMO it would be a good idea for Link to ask Zelda to permit him to make her the second in command next to him. And when Zelda is away I'm sure Nabooru will finally make good on her promise to Link on that passionately heartfelt romantic day in the Spirit Temple now that he is such a strong strapping young lad now. Yikes I hope gilderpilot does not read this







I agree that in WW TetraxLink is inevitable when they are older to start smooching and holding hands. Anyway, I never have considered myself a man of quality in the first place so instinctively for me, assertive women always get my romance mojo going. But to each his/her own I guess. But I do consider Link a man of quality and he should go to the girl he feels is right for him and not just force himself to choose. IMO uncommitted bachelor would make Link ideal for me I guess, but in TP its either Zelda/Midna OOT Zelda/Malon. And if Link did choose Zelda over Malon, I'm sure Malon would soon get over it and just hook up with Ingo.[/QUOTE]
Malon is smart enough to know that Ingo would be the crappiest choice in men she would ever make. I know she's smart enough to know because she was smart enough to find Link's house and somehow get a cow up there.

Even if Link doesn't choose Malon, that doesn't necessarily mean that Zelda is the only option. There are plenty of women in Hyrule and for all we know he could have met someone at some random time not seen in the games and hook up with them.

Also, to the person who posted what the Hero's Spirit had said, yes, it is implied that he was a hero, and if it is true that it is Link, then I've already thought up an explanation. As seen by the execution scene, when Zelda played the Song of Time to turn back time, she turned it back to before Link defeated Ganondorf, meaning that he was very much still alive and in the land of Hyrule. The only other land he knew how to get to was Termina, and I'm sure that word would have spread over his achievements in Termina, meaning that, while not constantly saving everyone around him who was in trouble, he would be living the life of a hero by dealing with the barrage of obsessive people who would feel their life is complete just by touching him, which is in no way fun. Of course, this would only be in Termina, which brings me back to Ganondorf. He would have to save Hyrule all over again, since he was the only one would could possibly capture Ganondorf at the time, so, once again, he would be revered as a hero, and he would have to accept life as a hero, because, at this point, there was no where else he could go.

Wow...That's a lot of ideas. Although Link and Zelda really could go well together, I don't think it'd work out. Seriously, that would mess up everything after Oot, and besides, Zelda is the seventh sage. I think Link is stuck with normal girls like Ilia and Malon. Besides, both Malon and Link like horses, so there's some common ground already!

Originally Posted by Navi007

Wow...That's a lot of ideas. Although Link and Zelda really could go well together, I don't think it'd work out. Seriously, that would mess up everything after Oot, and besides, Zelda is the seventh sage. I think Link is stuck with normal girls like Ilia and Malon. Besides, both Malon and Link like horses, so there's some common ground already!

How would it mess things up? As for Zelda being the seventh Sage, she's kind of a special case so I don't think we can eliminate her. She doesn't appear in spirit form unlike all the others, and she's likely not bound to the Sacred Realm. She doesn't even have a spot in the Chamber of Sages, or appear as a Sage in TP...maybe she's a part-time Sage? Only for when she is needed, unlike the others who serve somewhat eternally.

That does seem to be true: any friendship Malon and Link had in OoT was primarily based around Epona. But both liking horses doesn't seem to me a good enough basis for a romantic relationship. Sharing a life calling and a great adventure does however. ( in Zelda's case )

I dont think Zelda and the other sages still become sages in the child Timeline, no ganon = no nead for them.

Originally Posted by James the red

I dont think Zelda and the other sages still become sages in the child Timeline, no ganon = no nead for them.

Yeah, but being that Ganondorf was defeated in the Adult Timeline, that means that Ganondorf was never banished in the Child Timeline, as shown by TP.

Also, I think it would be a good idea to have this thread in each section, instead of general. The reason I say this is because there are so many different Links that it would just be slightly less confusing if there were, say, one for N64 Zelda, which both have the same Link, Wii Zelda, GC Zelda, etc. For the most part, the Links are pretty much related by console, except for the handheld and the GC TP.

Originally Posted by firsttsurugi

Even if Link doesn't choose Malon, that doesn't necessarily mean that Zelda is the only option. There are plenty of women in Hyrule and for all we know he could have met someone at some random time not seen in the games and hook up with them.

Oh yeah I agree. Many pages back I listed options for Link that ranged from Nabooru to the Cucco lady in OOT and from Ashei to random Hyrule town girls in TP. As for Malon, if Link or Ingo didn't work out, I can maybe see her with the potion shop guy.

Originally Posted by firsttsurugi

Yeah, but being that Ganondorf was defeated in the Adult Timeline, that means that Ganondorf was never banished in the Child Timeline, as shown by TP.

I agree with James the Red: I don't think the Sages in TP are the ones we saw awakened in OoT. I suspect when Ganondorf's evil invaded each temple when Link was sleeping in OoT, that they may have killed the original Sages like in WW. Hence the need for new ones. But if that never happened, the ancient Sages remain in TP. ( Rauru would be the only one we know as he pre-existed OoT )

As to how this relates to Romance, I guess it means Saria, Ruto and Nabooru would all be off the hook Sage-wise. Zelda is too as she still appears to be a special case. But Saria will still never grow up, and I doubt Link liked Ruto or Nabooru.

From earlier:

Originally Posted by firsttsurugi

The only other land he knew how to get to was Termina, and I'm sure that word would have spread over his achievements in Termina, meaning that, while not constantly saving everyone around him who was in trouble, he would be living the life of a hero by dealing with the barrage of obsessive people who would feel their life is complete just by touching him, which is in no way fun. Of course, this would only be in Termina, which brings me back to Ganondorf. He would have to save Hyrule all over again, since he was the only one would could possibly capture Ganondorf at the time, so, once again, he would be revered as a hero, and he would have to accept life as a hero, because, at this point, there was no where else he could go.

He likely was involved behind the scenes in the decision to execute Ganondorf. But the prologue of MM treats OoT's adventure as a legend..
( and MM is led into like one ) so I would be willing to bet Link's adventures became common knowledge...leading to his fame in Hyrule as well. In TP, they are still talking about him. If Link was so famous, I would think he might find another thing in common with Zelda: having people see you as a title, rather than a person.
Imagine how many girls Link would be faced with in that case who were interested in the Hero...who wanted Link the knight-in-shining armor rather than Link the man. I doubt Malon is any exception...that was her childhood dream and what she wanted in a man.
I believe Zelda has that in her heart as well as she's still a girl..but the type of relationship she has with Link seemed to go beyond that, at least if MM is any indication.

In TP I imagine Link as sort of a hero that is personable and that many common people would know. Whereas Zelda is like the untouchable unseeable goddess that hardly any common man or woman ever sees. In TP, it would seem that Link would maybe be the link (no pun intended) between Zelda's knowledge of how the common man/woman is doing living in her kingdom. In MM Links role, other than keeping Zelda entertained is completely useless.

OK back on topic: In romance, what can Link do or say to overcome his endearing shyness to Zelda?? I can see him picking a bunch of roses for Zelda that he presents to her as she sits stoicly on her throne and then

Zelda: Oh Link, you picked roses and daisies for me again, you're so sweet.

Link: (Quietly sighs)

Zelda: And your sighing is so adorable. (Kisses Link on the cheek)

Link: (Sighs louder and begins to blush)

Zelda: Oh sweet adorable Link, if only you can just have a casual conversation with me I can rock your world.

Link: (Loudly) SAYAAHH!! HAAAT!!

Zelda: So does that mean your becoming more of an assertive manly man now and be bold enough to go for a kiss to my lips??

From that point what can Link possibly say to her??

Originally Posted by Ganonslayer2000

OK back on topic: In romance, what can Link do or say to overcome his endearing shyness to Zelda?? I can see him picking a bunch of roses for Zelda that he presents to her as she sits stoicly on her throne and then

Zelda: Oh Link, you picked roses and daisies for me again, you're so sweet.

Link: (Quietly sighs)

Zelda: And your sighing is so adorable. (Kisses Link on the cheek)

Link: (Sighs louder and begins to blush)

Zelda: Oh sweet adorable Link, if only you can just have a casual conversation with me I can rock your world.

Link: (Loudly) SAYAAHH!! HAAAT!!

Zelda: So does that mean your becoming more of an assertive manly man now and be bold enough to go for a kiss to my lips??

From that point what can Link possibly say to her??

While I am amused at your little dialogue, I suppose you do have a point. I still think that OoT Link and Zelda are by far the best match, but I can see that Zelda may have to be the one to bring the romance topic to the conversation. While Link can talk ( check out some dialogue in MM for undeniable proof ) he does strike me as shy, and Zelda being totally beautiful and the Princess probably wouldn't help. I see him as the quiet guy who keeps coming back because he deeply loves her, even though he won't say it. I imagine a proposal would be along the lines of: " Link, I need a partner and I love you. Want to marry me?" whereapon our Hero would agree. Her social rank would likely mean she'd have to be the one to initiate it as well: I can't see Link ever being proud enough to march up to her and think he's worthy of the Princess's hand. ( Although he is! )

I suppose if Zelda did take the lead it doesn't appear to make her any different from Malon, Ruto, etc. The difference is that I can't ever see Zelda throwing herself at him, she wouldn't "flirt" and she'd never chase him. He'd still pursue her, but she'd have to make the offer.

Originally Posted by Ganonslayer2000

In TP I imagine Link as sort of a hero that is personable and that many common people would know. Whereas Zelda is like the untouchable unseeable goddess that hardly any common man or woman ever sees. In TP, it would seem that Link would maybe be the link (no pun intended) between Zelda's knowledge of how the common man/woman is doing living in her kingdom. In MM Links role, other than keeping Zelda entertained is completely useless.

While I agree on your assessment of TP Link's personality, I don't that post-MM Link is useless, or a "pet" as you've referred to him as.

Zelda in OoT/MM was also quite naive and sheltered, if you want proof that she's cut off from the common man, go show her the Keaton Mask. I believe the remark is: "Oh is that a mouse? What, it's not a mouse?"
At this time, Keaton is a popular character in Hyrule, the guard from Kakariko and Malon also recognize him. My point is that Zelda has no knowledge of popular culture, so not likely the thoughts of an ordinary civilian either. Link can definately help with that, just as you've imagined for TP.

Actually for TP, I see a relationship as less likely because we have Link and Zelda effectively switching places personality-wise. ( in my assessment )
Zelda seems much more reserved than her open-book personality in OoT, and Link seems much more social than the Hero of Time. Once again, because of Zelda's position, she'd likely have to be the one to make the offer..and I don't see the quiet Zelda of TP doing it.

As an aside, the only way I'd see Link paired with Midna is for dialog like this:

(Link and Midna visit Ordon)
Ilia: Look at this new dress I bought, Link!
Link: Yes, it's quite lovely.
Midna: Yes, it helps draw the eye away from your grotesquely swollen head.
(Ilia runs off crying)

And I'm blatantly plagiarizing Walk Hard, but:

(Link is about to ride off to save Hyrule, Ilia doesn't want him to go)
Link: You know, Ilia, I don't think you believe in me!
Ilia: I DO believe in you, Link! I just know you'll fail!

Being serious, my feeling with TP is that there were a few half-hearted attempts at showing a relationship between Link and Zelda (such as the hand-holding bit), because otherwise the only other option for a partner would be Ilia. Personally, I hate games where the protagonist has "designated love interest" because it takes the character out of my hands, and it's even worse when I dislike the love interest, as I did with Ilia. The game should, either implicitly or explicitly, give us a choice of romantic partner, or the choice of NO romantic partner.

In all I found TP's storytelling rather sloppy (especially how it all gets piled on at the end), and the characterization suffered because of it. The only character that had any developed personality at all was Midna, who was obviously the whole focus of the game. The other traditional characters, i.e. Ganondorf and Zelda, basically had bit parts and were only there because fans expected them. With such unbalanced character development I think any romance debate for that game is rather pointless. Compare this to OoT, where even minor characters like Malon have identifiable personalities.

This has also given me an idea for a story someone else could develop on: Zelda (of TP, perhaps) realizes that it's best for Hyrule if she had Link as a partner in marriage, but has the problem of getting him to marry her, since there's no telling if Link even wants someone like her. She wouldn't want to force him into marriage or do anything that would make him unhappy, but at the same time she knows that his heroic abilities are vital to defending the kingdom.

I don't have as good a point as you other people do but I really think Zelda and Link hook-up (in OoT, at least). Why? Well, in fiction, the hero often 'gets the girl' he's just saved. And the Zelda franchise is fiction (of a very high quality).

Also, I'm just a Zelink fanatic.