The Romance Thread IV: The Debate Continues

Again I might have overexaggerated with the word grotesque but you have to admit everyone in Ordon seemed to have these unusual headshapes for some reason. Other than this minor physical flaw I'd say "cute" in a Saria sense is a good description of Illia. And believe it or not despite my ridicule of Illia, I still felt Link had a deep love for her. Just not romantically thats all. Him riding away was more like something to that now everyone that he cares about is safe, he can go back to Hyrule and see Zelda about trying to repair the mirror to possibly bring Midna back or maybe he wants to hang out at Telmas bar to celebrate his victory over evil who knows. All I know is both Fado and Illia got a little rude awakening when Link got up a little more earlier that day to avoid dealing with either of them.

You know that there are some people that interpreted that scene as Link riding back to Ordon with Illia standing there anxiously awaiting her knight in shining armor to return to her?? Not to be rude to these people but I laugh at their bad judgement on the direction Link is actually riding to.

Originally Posted by Ganonslayer2000

Again I might have overexaggerated with the word grotesque but you have to admit everyone in Ordon seemed to have these unusual headshapes for some reason. Other than this minor physical flaw I'd say "cute" in a Saria sense is a good description of Illia. And believe it or not despite my ridicule of Illia, I still felt Link had a deep love for her. Just not romantically thats all. Him riding away was more like something to that now everyone that he cares about is safe, he can go back to Hyrule and see Zelda about trying to repair the mirror to possibly bring Midna back or maybe he wants to hang out at Telmas bar to celebrate his victory over evil who knows. All I know is both Fado and Illia got a little rude awakening when Link got up a little more earlier that day to avoid dealing with either of them.

You know that there are some people that interpreted that scene as Link riding back to Ordon with Illia standing there anxiously awaiting her knight in shining armor to return to her?? Not to be rude to these people but I laugh at their bad judgement on the direction Link is actually riding to.

Agree about the "coming-back" thing!.
I thinkLink rides back to Princess Zelda. I feel he feels that being the mayor is not for him anylonger when he can help so many more. Being Zelda´s knight and husband and king would help him with that. And then the magical armor and the crown he had that looked like Zelda is also some kind of evidense.

I like the fact that TP is sort of open ended, but with the final scene where Link is riding away from Ordon and then it shows the Hyrule castle throne room is evidence enough for me that Link went to go see Zelda for sure. As for wanting to pursue her romantically or just discuss political issues I'm not sure but I would assume the former.

Originally Posted by Ganonslayer2000

Again I might have overexaggerated with the word grotesque but you have to admit everyone in Ordon seemed to have these unusual headshapes for some reason. Other than this minor physical flaw I'd say "cute" in a Saria sense is a good description of Illia. And believe it or not despite my ridicule of Illia, I still felt Link had a deep love for her. Just not romantically thats all. Him riding away was more like something to that now everyone that he cares about is safe, he can go back to Hyrule and see Zelda about trying to repair the mirror to possibly bring Midna back or maybe he wants to hang out at Telmas bar to celebrate his victory over evil who knows. All I know is both Fado and Illia got a little rude awakening when Link got up a little more earlier that day to avoid dealing with either of them.

They were certainly mostly unattractive people. That in itself makes me refuse to believe Ordon is the village of OoT Link's descendants ( a theory I've seen ), though I can see Rusl alone maybe being a distant descendant of Link based on genetics.

As for Ilia being left behind: I'm unsure as to whether she saw him off, I'm inclined to believe so, based on her waiting and also the music having a "hopeful" sound to it when she was shown. I took the ending in general with Ordon to say, "Link will no longer be living here." and the throne room to mean, " Bigger things are in store for him." How Ilia fits into it, again I don't know. They spent too much time on her for me to realistically see Link just dumping her. Maybe he will come back later ( like with Adult Link and Saria ) and it will be clear that it's not going to work out romantically, but they will always love each other in a way.

Originally Posted by Ganonslayer2000

You know that there are some people that interpreted that scene as Link riding back to Ordon with Illia standing there anxiously awaiting her knight in shining armor to return to her?? Not to be rude to these people but I laugh at their bad judgement on the direction Link is actually riding to.

It's not bad judgment, it's actually quite easy to mistake. When I played the game, I went back to check for myself which way he was headed. Though "the feeling" told me it was away. That's one aspect of the series that's very hard to nail down as evidence in an argument, but I feel it is critically important. With cinematics, music etc, a certain feeling can be produced though everyone will react differently. Take the end sequence with OoT..the camera shots and music were hugely important. When Link turned around as a kid again and the music rose and was triumphant yet settled...the feeling I took was, "It's over". When he returned to Zelda and they just stood there looking at each other with Zelda's Lullaby playing anew, I took away: "A new start for us personally." Messages can definately sent even without words in these cases.

Originally Posted by gliderpilotgirl

They were certainly mostly unattractive people. That in itself makes me refuse to believe Ordon is the village of OoT Link's descendants ( a theory I've seen ), though I can see Rusl alone maybe being a distant descendant of Link based on genetics.

As for Ilia being left behind: I'm unsure as to whether she saw him off, I'm inclined to believe so, based on her waiting and also the music having a "hopeful" sound to it when she was shown. I took the ending in general with Ordon to say, "Link will no longer be living here." and the throne room to mean, " Bigger things are in store for him." How Ilia fits into it, again I don't know. They spent too much time on her for me to realistically see Link just dumping her. Maybe he will come back later ( like with Adult Link and Saria ) and it will be clear that it's not going to work out romantically, but they will always love each other in a way.



It's not bad judgment, it's actually quite easy to mistake. When I played the game, I went back to check for myself which way he was headed. Though "the feeling" told me it was away. That's one aspect of the series that's very hard to nail down as evidence in an argument, but I feel it is critically important. With cinematics, music etc, a certain feeling can be produced though everyone will react differently. Take the end sequence with OoT..the camera shots and music were hugely important. When Link turned around as a kid again and the music rose and was triumphant yet settled...the feeling I took was, "It's over". When he returned to Zelda and they just stood there looking at each other with Zelda's Lullaby playing anew, I took away: "A new start for us personally." Messages can definately sent even without words in these cases.

Well maybe I should have said I laugh at them if they still believe that today as I have to admit that I initially thought that he was riding back to Illia when I first beat it.

I know its lame to debate and discuss this stuff but since this thread has more new posts than my other subscribed threads I'm going to go ahead and discuss this issue relating to Illia and see what your opinion is: Awhile back someone posted a theory that Illia spent the night with Link and then he just decided to tell her he was leaving for awhile and so she was standing there hopefully and loyaly that Link will soon return to her to continue their pre-marital relationship. IMO its a decent theory but I think the issue of pre-marital sex goes against TP Link's super good guy character to take advantage of innocent Illia and just ride off after he got what he wanted. Your thoughts??

I think that scene is more about Illia then Link. In the begining she wants Link to stay and fears for him. At the end, Link is riding away with Illia waiting. It's telling us that she has grown up and matured. Telling the she no longer believes that Link should stay with her, but knows that his skill is going to be needed. Where Link is going and why is anyones guess. Its about Illia accepting that Link can not stay with her the way she had probably always dreamt about.

This scene is just like Collin's. We see him walking across that bridge with sword and shield. It really shows him growing up and taking up what his father and Link have done and are doing.

This is Illia's scene showing how she has grown up.

Just my 2 cents on the whole scene thing.

Originally Posted by Tazryl

I think that scene is more about Illia then Link. In the begining she wants Link to stay and fears for him. At the end, Link is riding away with Illia waiting. It's telling us that she has grown up and matured. Telling the she no longer believes that Link should stay with her, but knows that his skill is going to be needed. Where Link is going and why is anyones guess. Its about Illia accepting that Link can not stay with her the way she had probably always dreamt about.

This scene is just like Collin's. We see him walking across that bridge with sword and shield. It really shows him growing up and taking up what his father and Link have done and are doing.

This is Illia's scene showing how she has grown up.

Just my 2 cents on the whole scene thing.

This is exactly how I interpreted that scene except you may have worded it more better and gently than I did.

Originally Posted by Ganonslayer2000

I know its lame to debate and discuss this stuff but since this thread has more new posts than my other subscribed threads I'm going to go ahead and discuss this issue relating to Illia and see what your opinion is: Awhile back someone posted a theory that Illia spent the night with Link and then he just decided to tell her he was leaving for awhile and so she was standing there hopefully and loyaly that Link will soon return to her to continue their pre-marital relationship. IMO its a decent theory but I think the issue of pre-marital sex goes against TP Link's super good guy character to take advantage of innocent Illia and just ride off after he got what he wanted. Your thoughts??

Ilia and Link seemed to me to have a very pure and innocent relationship: that of childhood friends just moving into a deeper romance of adulthood. So keeping that in mind, I feel the possibility of them jumping way ahead in the process to sleeping together seems rather unlikely. If they were on the path to marriage, that would come in it's own good time. I just don't see Link getting back from saying goodbye to Midna and all the emotional upheaval and jumping into bed with Ilia. Especially if he was feeling unsettled and knew he may be leaving anyways: he's too much a good guy to do that to her.

Tazryl: I agree that it was Ilia's scene demonstrating her maturity. But the fact she seems determined to wait tells me Link may have given her reason, either that or she's as clueless as Fado is. She may have grown, but I have my doubts as to her having any idea of what Link has just been through. So maybe she's grown...but still not enough.

Yeah..I don't buy that theory of Illia seeing Link off riding away after she spent the night with him either. I do believe to an extent that she was as clueless as Fado was but maybe more accepting to the realization that Link chose not to stay to court her as she may have wanted him to. As for her waiting there, how long do you think she may have stood there probably for hours sobbing in confusement as to why he left? Or as Tazryl mentioned, maybe we can give her the benefit of the doubt and assumed she somewhat matured to realize Link has moved on to bigger and better things and gotten over her so she should do the same as well and move on in her own life. Who knows but maybe Illia and Fado can console each other on the heartbreak of Link's departure and fall in love. But could Illia's father accept Fado as a potential son in law?? Ha JK

Originally Posted by Ganonslayer2000

Well maybe I should have said I laugh at them if they still believe that today as I have to admit that I initially thought that he was riding back to Illia when I first beat it.

I know its lame to debate and discuss this stuff but since this thread has more new posts than my other subscribed threads I'm going to go ahead and discuss this issue relating to Illia and see what your opinion is: Awhile back someone posted a theory that Illia spent the night with Link and then he just decided to tell her he was leaving for awhile and so she was standing there hopefully and loyaly that Link will soon return to her to continue their pre-marital relationship. IMO its a decent theory but I think the issue of pre-marital sex goes against TP Link's super good guy character to take advantage of innocent Illia and just ride off after he got what he wanted. Your thoughts??

Keep in mind that the "premarital sex BAD!!!" view is primarily a Christian one, and Hyrule isn't Christian. However, thinking of Link having a sexual relationship with Ilia is just squick to me, because I got way too much of a "big brother/little sister" relationship between them.

As for the glut of misshapen heads in Ordon...well....my first thought was "endemic inbreeding." But seriously, I think the game went out of its way to show that Link didn't really belong with the others...his house is apart from them, he looks physically different from the others, plus he's got the Triforce mark on his hand. At the end of it, I think he finally realized he wasn't content to stay there any longer.

I forgot about the final shot of the throne room. A part of me wants to think that it's like OoT's final scene in the courtyard; Link going back to the people who now need him.

Will someone do something about dmoney please. An dmoney if you have a life and are telling to get one instead of posting here then why are you posting here doesn't that mean that your lying and you don't have a life just curious. Come up with some rude and sarcastic remark or excuse for this comment too. Some of us like to discuss what we think after actually playing the games. Not everything is so easy to understand just by playing the game and here is where we understand it.

Oh yea and about the fact my name has King in it is because this account was made when I was worried about online security I don't really care about it that much anymore so that's why and I didn't want to make a new account.

Originally Posted by Sirius B

Keep in mind that the "premarital sex BAD!!!" view is primarily a Christian one, and Hyrule isn't Christian. However, thinking of Link having a sexual relationship with Ilia is just squick to me, because I got way too much of a "big brother/little sister" relationship between them.

That's another major part of why I cannot imagine a physical relationship between them: the maturity difference. I think Ilia matured, but not as much as Link and he was ahead of her even at the beginning of the game. It'd be almost like he's taking advantage of her if they got physical. She's some innocent little village girl, and he's a hardened man of the world at the end.

Originally Posted by Sirius B

As for the glut of misshapen heads in Ordon...well....my first thought was "endemic inbreeding." But seriously, I think the game went out of its way to show that Link didn't really belong with the others...his house is apart from them, he looks physically different from the others, plus he's got the Triforce mark on his hand. At the end of it, I think he finally realized he wasn't content to stay there any longer.

They are a small isolated village in the middle of nowhere...inbreeding would not be unheard of. I think the physical difference between Link and them was intentional: it's not possible for him to be related closely to the villagers either. My feeling is we have another Kokiri case, Link was transplanted likely from Castletown as a youngster but thinks of it as home. Overall, I think Ordon itself was meant to be a reference to the Kokiri Forest, just a more realistic one than a village full of ageless fairy children.
The kids remind me of the dynamic of OoT ( Malo = Mido, Colin = Young Link, Ilia = Saria ) and even physical touches in the village itself can be seen. ( Store having a red roof for one ) It seems for the purpose of reality though that they melded a common farming village into it, and thus gave Link the opportunity for horsemanship. ( gameplay ) I vaguely remember some interview to that extent, that Ordon's ranch brought Epona, and goat-herding was a common enough job for a starting out Link.

Originally Posted by Sirius B

I forgot about the final shot of the throne room. A part of me wants to think that it's like OoT's final scene in the courtyard; Link going back to the people who now need him.

Similar purpose maybe, but I still feel OoT's was personal and romantic. He had a special bond with Zelda and I felt that was a big part of that last scene.

Originally Posted by gliderpilotgirl

That's another major part of why I cannot imagine a physical relationship between them: the maturity difference. I think Ilia matured, but not as much as Link and he was ahead of her even at the beginning of the game. It'd be almost like he's taking advantage of her if they got physical. She's some innocent little village girl, and he's a hardened man of the world at the end.



They are a small isolated village in the middle of nowhere...inbreeding would not be unheard of. I think the physical difference between Link and them was intentional: it's not possible for him to be related closely to the villagers either. My feeling is we have another Kokiri case, Link was transplanted likely from Castletown as a youngster but thinks of it as home. Overall, I think Ordon itself was meant to be a reference to the Kokiri Forest, just a more realistic one than a village full of ageless fairy children.
The kids remind me of the dynamic of OoT ( Malo = Mido, Colin = Young Link, Ilia = Saria ) and even physical touches in the village itself can be seen. ( Store having a red roof for one ) It seems for the purpose of reality though that they melded a common farming village into it, and thus gave Link the opportunity for horsemanship. ( gameplay ) I vaguely remember some interview to that extent, that Ordon's ranch brought Epona, and goat-herding was a common enough job for a starting out Link.


Similar purpose maybe, but I still feel OoT's was personal and romantic. He had a special bond with Zelda and I felt that was a big part of that last scene.

It´s the same thing in TP. Link and Zelda had a special bond also there and the throne room proves it even more when I now think about it. And also, we can´t forget the hand-touching-scene, can we? That was clear evidense!

In most games I think Zelda suits Link the best, they seem to share a connection that I did not see in the other girls.

Originally Posted by KPGirl

It´s the same thing in TP. Link and Zelda had a special bond also there and the throne room proves it even more when I now think about it. And also, we can´t forget the hand-touching-scene, can we? That was clear evidense!

I did see some hints that Link was attracted to Zelda at least.

- She turns around and he appears shocked by her beauty.
- When she identifies herself as a Triforce holder like him, he is looking entranced and Midna gasps and looks between the two of them, if anything, underscoring the chemistry in the air.
- Link reacts so strongly to her unconcious form
- His relief in her restoration, and he continues looking until disturbed.
- They meet each others' eyes and Zelda looks flustered and Link looks...shy almost.
- They hold hands in unity in the Light Arrow scene.

Okay: I can see this, and the word that came to mind with Link was "captivated" as far Zelda was concerned. It's not hard to see why: she's absolutely beautiful. But despite these, I feel they still developed Midna and Ilia into more viable romantic interests. I saw huge chemistry between Link and Zelda, but it was never built on, unlike with so many other games.

It's almost like the dev's threw these little hints in so we Zelda and Link fans would have something to chew on, but the force of the game wasn't behind them, IMO. That hand holding scene to me seemed like it was put in there out of the blue exactly for us. But putting it in the context of the whole game, it felt more like a platonic show of unity with chemistry added in. If anything, it also felt like a huge reference to OoT for nostalgic value.
Overall, when I look at a game for romance, I try to find where the emotion is, because the romance is usually integrally related to it. With LA, Marin was the centre, in OoT/MM and most certainly WW/PH, Zelda seemed to be present and responsible for the heavy emotion. When dealing with TP...Zelda just wasn't there IMO. Midna most certainly was, as was Ilia in the earlier half of the game. Given this, I just don't think the game supported Zelda even though destiny seems to.

I thought the handholding scene in TP was kind of lame at first but I got used to it by the time I kicked Ganons butt for the 100th time. In the horseback part I really wanted to see if I could talk to Zelda after I would get knocked off but she would just look at Link in silence. BTW what happened to Mr. Cool dmoney3275??

Originally Posted by Ganonslayer2000

I thought the handholding scene in TP was kind of lame at first but I got used to it by the time I kicked Ganons butt for the 100th time. In the horseback part I really wanted to see if I could talk to Zelda after I would get knocked off but she would just look at Link in silence. BTW what happened to Mr. Cool dmoney3275??

I think a mod deleted his posts.

The handholding scene would have been better if there had been some buildup to it and the two characters had a relationship developed between them, but the way it happened, it happened between two people who barely knew each other, which lessened the impact, methinks. I know attraction can develop quickly, but it seemed like just handwaving on Nintendo's part so that they can add Zelda as a romantic option. But as others have pointed out, it's Ilia and Midna who get all the interaction with Link, and Midna leaves at the end and whether Link stays with Ilia in the end is questionable. Nintendo said that they want players to "fill in the gaps themselves" but at this point there's more "gap" than not.

Originally Posted by Sirius B

I think a mod deleted his posts.

The handholding scene would have been better if there had been some buildup to it and the two characters had a relationship developed between them, but the way it happened, it happened between two people who barely knew each other, which lessened the impact, methinks. I know attraction can develop quickly, but it seemed like just handwaving on Nintendo's part so that they can add Zelda as a romantic option. But as others have pointed out, it's Ilia and Midna who get all the interaction with Link, and Midna leaves at the end and whether Link stays with Ilia in the end is questionable. Nintendo said that they want players to "fill in the gaps themselves" but at this point there's more "gap" than not.

Personally I still think he should just hook up with Ashei, but to me that handholding scene with Zelda was more for an OOT nostalgia effect which was OK with me. I just thought that scene would have been more appropriate if they were about to dance at a royal ball or something.

Zelda: If Link settled down with someone else he would constantly have to leave to do his work. But, if he settled with Zelda they would be able to do it together.

Malon: He would have to do farm work and take care of Hyrule. He'd get over worked.

Ruto: He DID make a promise in OoT, but the speices difference is just weird.

The others, well, I could go on and on and on, but in short, they aren't exactly...compatible in my mind, it just doesn't work.

Originally Posted by Ganonslayer2000

Personally I still think he should just hook up with Ashei, but to me that handholding scene with Zelda was more for an OOT nostalgia effect which was OK with me. I just thought that scene would have been more appropriate if they were about to dance at a royal ball or something.

I suppose it did have a very formal and "chivalrous" feeling to it, didn't it? Hero and Princess, what a match that scene makes you consider. Actually, it's scenes like that that actually made me miss OoT rather than just enjoying TP. I strongly feel that the Link-Zelda bond was a critical and central element of OoT, something that TP completely forgot, despite the similarities.

Another thing to talk about. Is it fair to say a game like TP is "commenting" in hindsight on the conclusions of for instance OoT? They are so different in romantic focus that you can't compare the two IMO, despite the character parallels.