The Romance Thread IV: The Debate Continues

I voted for Malon. I liked Malon in all the games she was in over Zelda but i also think Tetra is cool

Originally Posted by link4life1432

in TP,illia,in oot though clearly saria.because one kokiri even says in adult timeline,she had a crush on link.And when link first leaves the forest he feels embarresed/sad cause he has a crush on her.they just never admitted it to eachother

I see Saria and Illia as love like a sister at best. Romantically? Well, I hate to admit it......I would actually have to choose Ilia only if Link beats her with a club everytime she rudely takes Epona away at the very moment he is leaving on an important envoy mission.

Originally Posted by Sirius B

And I'll say it again: Ilia, like many others in Ordon, has a misshapen head. Now, I'm not saying the people with misshapen heads cannot be totally awesome badasses, but...she's got a misshapen head!

Being serious, I don't think the people in that cutscene were supposed to "be" Link and Ilia, exactly, but just figures familiar to Link used to explain the backstory.

Tell me about it....As I played TP, I often wished that there was someway Link could get the megaton hammer and bust that misshappen head of hers wide open. But yeah, I interpreted that cutscene as a dream sequence and the falling Iliias represented his big brother protecting little sister feelings IMO.

Offtopic on your wikipedia link: Yeah I like historical stuff about the Norse people. I think its wrong that pop culture potrays them more as brute savages than the reality that they were well armed-skilled warriors with the technology to build fast ships. I think they may have pissed off the pope too many times back then for worshipping trees and rocks on occasion but Egil seemed to have handled himself pretty well.

Back on topic: I like Hena for Link better than Illia.

Originally Posted by Picori_the_Mini

I voted for Malon. I liked Malon in all the games she was in over Zelda but i also think Tetra is cool

Tetra is Princess Zelda or are you forgetting that too. How her ancestry led her to be a pirate I'll never know but If I remember right she said either her mother or her grandmother was a pirate too.

well what if you switch it around instead of a zelda game with HM aspects, make it a HM game with zelda aspects using characters and locations. not nessesarily about farming but you get the point

Originally Posted by 1upmushroom

well what if you switch it around instead of a zelda game with HM aspects, make it a HM game with zelda aspects using characters and locations. not nessesarily about farming but you get the point

They've done that too in some of their newer games actually. Where the whole point of the game is to go into a dungeon deeper and deeper I guess to find your memory. Haven't played it but read a review on it a while back.

Yeah i know that Tetra is Zelda ive played PH and WW

Originally Posted by Picori_the_Mini

Yeah i know that Tetra is Zelda ive played PH and WW

I don't think that she actually did much as Zelda in PH though I haven't played it in a while since I did a 100% completion of the game.

Yea I think she played a much bigger role in WW in PH she usually is frozen in stone when your with her...

I voted Midna. Not Saria or Ilia because theyre childhood friends of Links, and its annoying when people think a boy and a girl who have been friends for years ought to have romantic feelings for eachother or do have. Malon has just been a farm girl, no real relationship between her and Link. Zelda there is in some games, not in TP, but in WW there is a little spark there. And PH. But I voted Midna because of her characters development, that it is unique for Zelda. She and Link build a very strong relationship as the adventure moves foward. This is clear at the very end and just playing it. They have the time to build their relationship, which I think is important in true romance and loving relationships. Zeldas always locked away or captured and not there to develop a relationship

Originally Posted by Ganonslayer2000

I see Saria and Illia as love like a sister at best. Romantically? Well, I hate to admit it......I would actually have to choose Ilia only if Link beats her with a club everytime she rudely takes Epona away at the very moment he is leaving on an important envoy mission.

I don't see Saria as sisterly love for one solid reason. This quote:

Originally Posted by from OoT

Saria will always be...your friend....

Being told that a couple will only be "friends" is a classic way to end a relationship..or the potential of one in this case. I think the door was very firmly closed on this with that scene. But I've always seen Saria and Zelda as similar, in personality and the way they deal with Link. They both have depth with him, empathy and something undefinable that sets them apart from say, Malon or Ruto. I think Zelda would be the best "replacement" for Saria, while Link would always love Saria in a way, I think Zelda could fill her shoes.

You know, dealing with Ilia and responses like that, I can't help but feel the dev's horribly failed in making Ilia out to be what they likely wanted. I totally can see they were trying recapture Saria and Link's bond from OoT ( even in looks she reminds me of Saria, they have that same girlish innocence ) but they failed, IMO. I think the temper tantrum was a reference to Malon and Talon from OoT, but it backfired. It gave this fan a bad impression of her and then we had to go out and save her: I couldn't have cared less.

Overall, this makes no sense to me either: by all rights I should have loved Ilia. She had the same good qualities that make me love Zelda in most incarnations: solid friendship and personal empathy for Link.

When I meant sisterly love I only meant it as being non-romantic. Even when Link was the same size as her some people tend to forget that he was only 8 years old which is still a few years before a normal male hits puberty. Therefore no romantic feelings or any remote sexual desire for Saria period as it would by biology standards be very weird and inappropriate anyway. On top of that, when Link is an adult/teen, I still truly doubt IMO he is still going to have any feelings for kissyface on Saria due to the fact that she still has the body of a tiny undeveloped little girl. No sexual attraction = No romance.

I know I've been real hard on Illia, and the initial concept of making her a Malon/Saria type character was not a bad idea. It just fell flat IMO to make her a romantic interest. Misshapen head, annoyingly girlish innoccence mixed with the occasional spoiled brat temper tantrum didn't do much to make me a fan of hers for Link to return any feelings she might have had for him to make her a romantic interest. Plus my own interpretation of the TP ending reference that I mentioned before led me to believe that Link ultimately rejected her period.

Originally Posted by Ganonslayer2000

When I meant sisterly love I only meant it as being non-romantic. Even when Link was the same size as her some people tend to forget that he was only 8 years old which is still a few years before a normal male hits puberty. Therefore no romantic feelings or any remote sexual desire for Saria period as it would by biology standards be very weird and inappropriate anyway. On top of that, when Link is an adult/teen, I still truly doubt IMO he is still going to have any feelings for kissyface on Saria due to the fact that she still has the body of a tiny undeveloped little girl. No sexual attraction = No romance.

8 year old's cannot have crushes? I distinctly remember having a crush on a boy that started when I was 7, and it lasted until I was 10. The difference IMO was that it was innocent: marriage and family are so far off that it's impossible to think in those terms for a kid. I don't agree that sexual attraction is necessary to form a romance, rather I feel the opposite: romance is the meeting and connection between two hearts rather than just two bodies. A romance based on physical attraction is "lust", one based on hearts is "love".
So I totally can see Link still possessing those feelings when Saria is an adult, because they were never based on bodily attraction to begin with. But she herself ended it: she was a Sage and he couldn't live in the forest anymore with the Kokiri.

Originally Posted by Ganonslayer2000

I know I've been real hard on Illia, and the initial concept of making her a Malon/Saria type character was not a bad idea. It just fell flat IMO to make her a romantic interest. Misshapen head, annoyingly girlish innoccence mixed with the occasional spoiled brat temper tantrum didn't do much to make me a fan of hers for Link to return any feelings she might have had for him to make her a romantic interest. Plus my own interpretation of the TP ending reference that I mentioned before led me to believe that Link ultimately rejected her period.

Two things I can see where they went wrong.

One: I don't believe it's possible for someone to be portrayed as perfectly sweet and desirable, yet a brat all at once. Sure it can be seen in real children who are nice when they get their own way, but it smacks of immaturity and a lack of discipline. I have no doubt Nintendo wanted Ilia to be seen as flawless...but that temper tantrum ruined it. If they were trying to demonstrate her having spirit, they did it the wrong way: a poor reason that showed her ulterior motives in that she was attempting to keep him there.

Two: They practically told us we had to like her. This was the first time I've ever felt truly "split" from Link as in him not being me: he liked her and I didn't. The game seemed to go out of it's way to tell us how Link felt and how he should want Ilia...that almost made me like her less because I felt forced into it. I think the better games where we've seen romance/hinted make it difficult to dislike a character...so when Link does seem to return feelings, it feels natural.

Originally Posted by dmoney327

link cant get a ****ing girl just like u guys here on ZU i joined this site to make fun of u guys i like zelda but im not that into it get a girl get a puppy get something to do with ur life for all i care just stop being nerds lmao who the hell has the time to discuss fake video game characters that were in one game. I DONT!!!! u guys r like lets c what fake vid game character will match best with link if u like that **** u obviously have no life. FACE REALITY!!!!! GET A LIFE

Hey you jerk I am a girl so shut it. So what if we like talking about this it's better than letting the world know that your a fool for posting something so ridiculous. Besides because you posted something like that it makes me think that you've got nothing better to do in your life anyways. You obviously aren't a real fan of the series because everyone knows that real fans would never make fun or disrespect another one like that. Were here to listen to opinions not make fun of others so we can feel better about ourselves. It's not like we are on this thread 24-7 posting we only get on when we can get away from our real lives.

Also I am sorry gliderpilotgirl for the way I just acted. Please forgive me

I'm not sure if Ilia's negative portrayal is unintentional. Keep in mind that first impressions are very powerful, and I'm sure the first impression many players had of her was "she's in my way." Compare this to Saria in OoT; despite the very small amount of dialog she has with Link, the player can already get a sense of the connection between the two, and that she's the only one in the Kokiri Forest who actually understands Link. When he has to leave for greater things, she understands then as well, and doesn't try to stop him.

Ilia, however, is very displeased the idea of him leaving, and when he does she tells him "don't do anything out of your league, okay?" I took this mean "You're wont to go off on your own way, Link, so none of that!" She has her own idea of what is "in your league" with regards to Link, which is clearly something far more mundane that he really is. I believe it was intentional that she's portrayed as small-minded, and that's why Link is seen leaving at the end. Ilia and he no longer share the same Weltanschauung.

Originally Posted by gliderpilotgirl

8 year old's cannot have crushes? I distinctly remember having a crush on a boy that started when I was 7, and it lasted until I was 10. The difference IMO was that it was innocent: marriage and family are so far off that it's impossible to think in those terms for a kid. I don't agree that sexual attraction is necessary to form a romance, rather I feel the opposite: romance is the meeting and connection between two hearts rather than just two bodies. A romance based on physical attraction is "lust", one based on hearts is "love".
So I totally can see Link still possessing those feelings when Saria is an adult, because they were never based on bodily attraction to begin with. But she herself ended it: she was a Sage and he couldn't live in the forest anymore with the Kokiri.



Two things I can see where they went wrong.

One: I don't believe it's possible for someone to be portrayed as perfectly sweet and desirable, yet a brat all at once. Sure it can be seen in real children who are nice when they get their own way, but it smacks of immaturity and a lack of discipline. I have no doubt Nintendo wanted Ilia to be seen as flawless...but that temper tantrum ruined it. If they were trying to demonstrate her having spirit, they did it the wrong way: a poor reason that showed her ulterior motives in that she was attempting to keep him there.

Two: They practically told us we had to like her. This was the first time I've ever felt truly "split" from Link as in him not being me: he liked her and I didn't. The game seemed to go out of it's way to tell us how Link felt and how he should want Ilia...that almost made me like her less because I felt forced into it. I think the better games where we've seen romance/hinted make it difficult to dislike a character...so when Link does seem to return feelings, it feels natural.

Well as long as Link limits his romantic feelings for Saria with pecks on the cheek I'm cool with it because a pedophile Link does not sit well with me. If this game franchise were of GTA standards then I would not have an issue like this being in an 18 and up game. Since the ever beloved Zelda franchise has always been for all ages then I'm sure the concept of Link and Saria settling down to have kids is non existant. IMO any fanfics hinting to a Saria marriage is just plain creepy.

As for Illia...you pretty much took the words out of my mouth so no arguement there.

Originally Posted by UnderworldKing

Hey you jerk I am a girl so shut it. So what if we like talking about this it's better than letting the world know that your a fool for posting something so ridiculous. Besides because you posted something like that it makes me think that you've got nothing better to do in your life anyways. You obviously aren't a real fan of the series because everyone knows that real fans would never make fun or disrespect another one like that. Were here to listen to opinions not make fun of others so we can feel better about ourselves. It's not like we are on this thread 24-7 posting we only get on when we can get away from our real lives.

Also I am sorry gliderpilotgirl for the way I just acted. Please forgive me

just a quick off topic rant, does it say king in ur name if your a girl?

no need to answer, but anyway.
shouldn't Zelda be paired with Link? I mean, Link Saves Her every time She's in a pickle.

I think that since Link is a video game character, the creators of his respective video games did not intend for people to theorize about Link's love life, because he is a video game character.

Originally Posted by gliderpilotgirl

One: I don't believe it's possible for someone to be portrayed as perfectly sweet and desirable, yet a brat all at once. Sure it can be seen in real children who are nice when they get their own way, but it smacks of immaturity and a lack of discipline. I have no doubt Nintendo wanted Ilia to be seen as flawless...but that temper tantrum ruined it. If they were trying to demonstrate her having spirit, they did it the wrong way: a poor reason that showed her ulterior motives in that she was attempting to keep him there.

I don't think Nintendo wanted to protray her as perfect. I really liked Illia as a character. I think she is a better character with that little temper tantrum. It added a bit of depth to her character, something alot of characters in the Zelda world lack.

If Nintendo tried to have Illia flawless, I am glad they failed. Now I hate to say it, but why shouldnt she seem a bit spoiled? Her father is the mayor and her mother is dead. My guess is that her father spoilers her. Now I will admit this is a terrible quality overall. But a quality that works well if you plan to develope her character. I never gave much thought to the ending credit scene with Link riding epona and Illia watching him go. It just kinda hit me now. Its the same thing with Collin's scene in the ending of the credits. To show they have matured.

Illia felt more real to me when she had that temper tantrum. It showed that she really cares for Link and Epona. Wouldn't you try and prevent a loved one from going into a situation that could prove dangerous? Illia wants Link to be safe.

Illia starts off as somoene who is probably spoiled and immature at times and grows into a more mature and non-spoiled character.

Thinking this over, Illia was not meant to start off as a flawless character. She was supposed to turn into one, but not until the end of the game. I think TP has more character depth then most people realize.

I wouldn't say flawless when talking about Illia. Just take a look at that grotesque looking noggin of hers that looks like a deformed mango melon with hair. As for personality, well I've accepted that some people like her for the exact reasons I'm repulsed by her. For example, yeah I know she had good intentions when she ran off with Epona at the beginning. I forgave her for that as well as the rude greeting she gave Link at Telmas bar when it was evident that she had amnesia. But by the time of the cutscene where she is thanking Link before the escort mission, I suddenly realized how bland and uninteresting she was. After the escort mission to Kakariko she pretty much stands there in the sanctuary absolutely useless until the events leading to revive her memory. Then all she says until you beat the game is something like golly gee whiz, I hope I haven't worried anybody back at the village. It was at that point that I wished I could have used a weapon like the ball & chain to crack her huge skull open and watch her die a slow agonizing death. All in all I enjoyed seeing her looking totally rejected and heartbroken at the end knowing that Link didn't want her and rode off for adventure elsewhere. So I'm pretty much with gilderpilotgirl that the whole Illia thing came off unusually contrived and ended up falling flat IMO. And as for my worthless rant on the corny subject of Illia and Link's love life in general The End.

Originally Posted by Tazryl

If Nintendo tried to have Illia flawless, I am glad they failed. Now I hate to say it, but why shouldnt she seem a bit spoiled? Her father is the mayor and her mother is dead. My guess is that her father spoilers her. Now I will admit this is a terrible quality overall. But a quality that works well if you plan to develope her character. I never gave much thought to the ending credit scene with Link riding epona and Illia watching him go. It just kinda hit me now. Its the same thing with Collin's scene in the ending of the credits. To show they have matured.

Hmmm. Good point there: I fully agree Ilia was spoiled in the beginning ( part of why I disliked her and why I still dislike Malon ) but in Ilia's case I suppose she outgrew it. She did tell Link to "go to those who need him" when she regained her memory rather than her selfish clingy-ness from the beginning. But I'm still confused because of the emotions the end left me with: We have Midna shattering the mirror and Link looking heartbroken. As the player, I can truly say I was shattered too. So when the peaceful music played and Link's empty house showed..I felt very unsettled...I could empathize with Link in feeling possibly apathetic and leaving.

As for Ilia herself, a thought that strikes me is how her "waiting" parallels the beginning of MM. Link is leaving, apathetic and possibly feeling aimless, searching for something indefinable that Midna's departure may have left him with. Whether his relationship with Midna was romantic or platonic, he too has lost a dear friend. But I still get the sense he loves Ilia deeply.

The situation with MM is pretty much the same, except substitute Zelda as his beloved, and Navi for Midna. He leaves in a apathetic fog looking for the friend who will turn out to be the Skull Kid, even if it was Navi he thought he needed. But in the end I've always felt Zelda's faith in him would be rewarded, and he would return.

*edit because Ganonslayer posted while I was*

I've seen lots of remarks about Ilia's looks or lack of looks: I don't think she was ever supposed to be "beautiful" when compared up against Zelda or Midna. More "cute" like Saria, or how I've always imagined Malon as well. With Ilia, I think her worth was supposed to come from her heart and innocence. Not to say Zelda doesn't possess formidable inner beauty, but Ilia has the girlish innocence TP Zelda totally lacked.

In terms of him leaving because he didn't love her, I doubt that's true. It may be more the MM thing where he needs for himself to seek answers. However, with MM he was already in his rightful place ( IMO ) at Zelda's side, whereas with TP it wasn't hard to tell he was finished with Ordon as his permanent home. Where Ilia fits in that, I don't know.