The Romance Thread IV: The Debate Continues

Originally Posted by gliderpilotgirl

1)
With Zelda, we have a whole different ball game. Where the game treats Malon lightly and not seriously, Zelda is the opposite. The ending of OoT for one...the last scene has Link return to her after it's all done and over. How romantic is that? The scene with them parting as adults was IMO, heart-wrenching. Zelda as Sheik also said some interesting things regarding love, they could easily have been referring to herself and Link as well as the situations.

The intro to MM seems a clear cut romance scene: "I feel like I have known you forever..I will never forget the days we spent together in Hyrule.. and I believe in my heart that a day will come when I shall meet you again"...that's pretty much a romantic speech. And Link himself is distracted by Zelda's memories in the face of his impending death...a clear sign of her importance to him in my eyes. It just seems everything with these two is deeper and more profound than any casual flirtations from Malon. He'd likely outgrow them and her, for something more mature and lasting in Zelda.

A-MEN. Thats two games that hint at ZeLink. OoT is the best demonstration of ZeLink-ness, and the above mentioned scenes... Man, i was heartbroken. The fact that Link goes back to the castle to see her says a lot about how much he cares for her.

I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that Ilia being described as Link's "childhood friend" is actually an argument against their later pairing.

First of all, just because a man and woman are friends does NOT mean they'll become lovers in the future. In fact I'd actually say the opposite; how many times has a guy gotten stuck in a girl's "friend zone" where she only wants to be "just friends" but he wants something more? Both men and women can have opposite-sex "friends" that they cannot see as romantic partners...myself included. I know several women that I'm friends with but no more...in fact the idea of being involved in that way with them is almost rather repulsive.

What I'm trying to say is, just because Link is friends with someone doesn't mean their destined to fall in love later, and I'd argue since they've come to see each other as "just friends" the chances of them become lovers are less.

For me it all comes down to what woman wants the same thing as Link. Imagine if Link married Ilia, and then some Big Bad comes along threatening the kingdom. How would she react, given that she doesn't really know he's a hero and all, if he then decided to leave home on some grand, dangerous adventure? She'd either react with hostility or, at best, simply say "well, don't get hurt." I doubt very much she'd help him in any way, aside from offering moral support. Now, contrast this with Zelda. If something were threatening the kingdom, then from the little we know of her there's no doubt she'd be willing to accompany Link on his quest if it meant saving Hyrule, and keep in mind that her abilities are not only helpful, they are (in some games) vital to defeating the Big Bad. I certainly can't say the same about Ilia or Malon.

One of the recurring arguments against Link ending up with Zelda is the great social divide between them. If Hyrule were a real European medieval kingdom, than this argument would be 100% correct, because there's no way in hell a person who tended cattle for a living would every marry a princess. But not only does Hyrule not exist in real life, Link is also a heroic figure that doesn't exist in real life. At the end of the game, he's not some got herder or little boy from the forest; he was just doing that in the meantime. So I don't think you can really argue that Link and Zelda aren't equals by the end of the game.

True, Link does seem to like Zelda, but I think that the game gave various hints that Zelda and Link are related in OoT. Thus, I think that them marrying each other and having a kid would be just plain wrong. *hangs head* However, since they were seperated, that very thing would be very likely; this happens in the real world, too. I guess maybe they would be a likely pair.

no. Link and Zelda are not related. No. they're just not in my book. I respect your views, trimph, but I just... No.

and Sirius B, i totally get what you are saying about the whole opposite-sex friend spiel. Very true indeed. And about the whole Link and Zelda being equals by the end of it, if Zelda doesnt honor Link in some way for saving her entire country single-handedly with a title, then she's not a very decent Princess. I'm just saying. She would want to make him a knight or something like that, i think.

I respect your views, too, and totally agree that Zelda should knight Link.

hmmm, I think when link gets done saving hyrule and can finally take off his sword and shield for the last time he would go back to the lost woods and settle down with Saria. I dunno, even though throughout the games Link is always in the midst of things, he just seems like a simple guy at heart. I don't see him wanting to live the big fancy life next to Zelda forever. Once he's done fighting evil I think Link would want to get away from it all and go back to his peaceful woods and marry his childhood friend. Malon smells like horse poop, so I don't think she has much of a chance. actually no, I think malon would just be too much of a reminder of Marin from his dreams who I think is the one that he secretly likes. But the characters in link's awakening only exist in links mind not in Hyrule. so my vote still goes to Saria.

The problem is that knighthood is still a subservient position, and most knights served a lord whose interests might be something other than the interests of the kingdom. I've always seen Link and Zelda as more "comrades in arms" than a master and servant.

Good point there.

what is this love you speak of?
A hero cant be with someone, because the other person would try and make them stop fighting evil.

Originally Posted by trimph forks

True, Link does seem to like Zelda, but I think that the game gave various hints that Zelda and Link are related in OoT.

While I also respect your opinion, for the sake of the debate I'm going to tackle the sibling thing.

1) I can see where this idea first got ground: ALTTP, where Link's uncle trailed off with "Zelda is your...". I've heard reports the original Japanese was along the lines of "destiny" or something, and this line was changed in the GBA re-release, I'd bet for the express reason of removing this.

2) In OoT, the most common points I see are a) Impa's remark when teaching Zelda's lullaby, and b) the Poe's.

When dealing with Link knowing this in other places, he's referred to as "the Royal Family's messenger", and it's obviously a special case to aid him in his quest. In any case, would Impa deny him the lullaby's special powers because of the technicality of him being not related? Pretty much what the song gave him was a bit of the Royal Family's authority, and he needed it to access their land.

The Poes could have merely been remarking on Link's connection with Zelda, not a blood relation. I've seen the argument that Poe's are spirit and would therefore recognize a spirit connection: Link and Zelda are bound by destiny.

Even if Link was indeed the long lost Prince of Hyrule, the circumstances surrounding his delivery to the Kokiri Forest seem iffy. Why would the Queen leave the castle ( a fortress ) and take the male heir with her? One would think due to the medieval tendency ( even in fantasy ) to want men on the throne that Link's safety would have been preferred over Zelda's. And why wouldn't the King have searched for her and Link? Ordinary men can't go into the Lost Woods but the Deku tree seemed well appraised of what was going on in the world, no doubt he wouldn't have kept Link squirrelled away in the Kokiri Forest if he was being sought out. Okay, enough of that.

Sirius B: just a quick note, it's always a pleasure to see you have posted, I look forward to seeing the depth of your thoughts.

Okay, on the childhood friend thing, I agree in some ways, and some ways not. In real life, it's true. I've had the exact same thing happen with guys I grew up with, and it actually damaged our friendship when the romantic feelings came out, so the potential is always there for it to end badly...it seems to more often than not.

But in Zelda, where we've seen the childhood friend, the difference is it seems to have been reciprocated. Saria, Ilia, and many of the Zelda's have started out as kids with Link. I guess it all comes down to goals like you have said, with Zelda growing closer because they share it, and Saria, Malon and Ilia being left behind.

Originally Posted by Sirius B

The problem is that knighthood is still a subservient position, and most knights served a lord whose interests might be something other than the interests of the kingdom. I've always seen Link and Zelda as more "comrades in arms" than a master and servant.

I'm fully agreed on that and what you said earlier in regards to their situation. I've always disliked seeing Link and Zelda forcibly held to the cold realities of our world, where LoZ is a fantasy kingdom, the rules don't apply.

^Also agreed. Link's more than just a knight, he's elevated by the game to be her equal. In being the equal and partner of the Princess and eventually Queen, there's only one proper position for him to continue in this capacity. The King. The alternative is some man will step in and take this, and Link's effectively out of a job: an aimless wanderer IMO doesn't fit him. He needs purpose. I know I've made this point before, but I don't think that Link's final outfit in TP being the armor of a Prince/King was an accident.

Originally Posted by Elshape

A hero cant be with someone, because the other person would try and make them stop fighting evil.

Just a quick note: have you considered the ending of WW and Sheik's role in OoT? Zelda would be more likely to start something with the evil herself rather than hold him back. And she'd jump in there with him!

Originally Posted by trimph forks

I respect your views, too, and totally agree that Zelda should knight Link.

thanks, and heck YES she knights him in my little Zelda world! I <3 writing fanfic for this reason.

Originally Posted by morval

hmmm, I think when link gets done saving hyrule and can finally take off his sword and shield for the last time he would go back to the lost woods and settle down with Saria. I dunno, even though throughout the games Link is always in the midst of things, he just seems like a simple guy at heart. I don't see him wanting to live the big fancy life next to Zelda forever. Once he's done fighting evil I think Link would want to get away from it all and go back to his peaceful woods and marry his childhood friend. Malon smells like horse poop, so I don't think she has much of a chance. actually no, I think malon would just be too much of a reminder of Marin from his dreams who I think is the one that he secretly likes. But the characters in link's awakening only exist in links mind not in Hyrule. so my vote still goes to Saria.

while i prefer him to want to remain in the business of protecting Hyrule with Zelda, i can also see that side of him, too; the side that wants to lead a simple life would be very prevalent in him, i think. but i think he would eventually come to realize that the goddesses gave him this duty of protecting Hyrule and its Princess for a reason and he would want to uphold that duty.

Originally Posted by Sirius B

The problem is that knighthood is still a subservient position, and most knights served a lord whose interests might be something other than the interests of the kingdom. I've always seen Link and Zelda as more "comrades in arms" than a master and servant.

yes, very good point indeed. but maybe the knighting system works a little differently in Hyrule. in my mind, i have them as more of like King Arthur's Knights of the Round Table. The Knights of Hyrule would be more like the best of the best soldiers in Hyrule.

Midna is the girl for Link. Why? Because they form that bond, that relationship, with Malon or Ilia or anyone he doesn't. Ilia is his childhood friend, Malon just sings to him on a farm! No possible lust or love there. Midna all the way!

she rides him like a donkey. no spark there

Originally Posted by zeldace6400

she rides him like a donkey. no spark there

I think if anything that should strengthen the argument for LinkxMidna

Originally Posted by ImReallyLink

I think if anything that should strengthen the argument for LinkxMidna

well when he dashes she does make that, ugh! sound

Originally Posted by zeldace6400

well when he dashes she does make that, ugh! sound

that sounds nasty.

Originally Posted by sethpenguin

that sounds nasty.

Thats the point

Originally Posted by ZeldaStrife

yes, very good point indeed. but maybe the knighting system works a little differently in Hyrule. in my mind, i have them as more of like King Arthur's Knights of the Round Table. The Knights of Hyrule would be more like the best of the best soldiers in Hyrule.

Yep, that'd make sense, after all, Hyrule is in another world, so why wouldn't the knighting system be different?

I voted for Princess Zelda cause that´s obvious that they belong to eachother. In every Zelda game they hint for ZeLink. Ocarina of time is one of them all and also even Twilight Princess many seems to disagree on. But the thing is that Ilia was Link´s childhood, Midna was like his best friend but with Zelda. I assure you all that it was something.
How can someone forgot how Link looked at Zelda after she woke up when her soul returned to her. I´ve never seen Link stare like that before. I also belive that Zelda became in love with him too. Not only when she saw him when she woke up but also since when she gave her soul to Midna. You maybe remember her qoute: "Say nothing, Midna. Your heart and mine were as one...However breathly."
At first I was a bit unsure about that stuff but now I know. Zelda was inside Midna and saw everything while Midna speaked and did the rest. On their jorney with Link I bet that Zelda became deeply in love with Link already then.
And we shall not forget the cutscene when Zelda and Link hold their hands.
So I say that there is no other woman for Link than Princess Zelda.
And yes, you all guessed right, I´m a huge ZeLinker!^^

For those of you who said Saria, you do know that she will always be a child, right? It may be that her mental age is greater, but she is still physically a child which makes any form of romantic relationship with Link very disturbing to me. I'm also going to assume that Saria was the one who raised Link from infancy (OoT was never particularly clear on this), and in that situation, pairing her with Link adds a weird, Oedipal angle to things that is just...squick.

However, I'm also open to the possibility of there being no romantic match for Link at all. I must admit I find the idea of him being a "lone wolf" who doesn't need a woman somewhat appealing.