The Romance Thread IV: The Debate Continues

There are all kinds of statements in the long-winded RutoxLink argument I could 'nit-pick' but I'm not gonna bother going back and actually pointing them out, much too tedeious ( <---- spelling?). So I'm just gonna say: It would have to be SCI-FI for a humanoid species (Hilyan) to be with a FISH-PERSON. And, as was preveiously ( <--- spelling?) said: They reproduce in very different ways!

Originally Posted by SecondStallord

Midna/Ilia/Aahei/Hena/Anyone else from TP: All completely irrelevant. These are all love interests of a completely different Link than the one we are discussing in this topic. In my opinion, they should not even be on this poll, as the Link that we have been discussing since the first thread has never even met them, and lived a full century before them. If someone wishes to debate Twilight Princess relationships, a separate poll or a separate thread should be made to discuss them.
Likelihood: 0/10

Actually, since this is in General Zelda, it stands for all Link's, and they can't make multiple polls, as far as I know, so I would suggest that this thread be made for each Zelda category except General, Future, and Theorizing Zelda, but I don't think they will do that.

Ruto is a possibility, as unpopular as she is. I had not paid attention to Rutela enough to have made that connection, so good job with that, though, if memory serves, I could have sworn that Rutela's "hair" was red with blond tips, but I may be wrong, and it is implied that TP Link is the descendent of OoT Link, so, unless OoT Link has some explaining to do (not entirely unreasonable), that connection would be nullified by TP Link's existence. Also, thank you for noting that Malon does, in fact, have a higher probability than Zelda.

Oh, and Saria is definitely not even a 1/10, since I highly doubt Nintendo would make the hero a pedophile.

I haven't played every single LoZ game to date, but this is what I think for the ones I have played....based on reality.
Ocarina of Time: Malon
Majora's Mask: I forgot her name, but she lives at the ranch...about Link's age.
Twilight Princess: Ilia

Now if it was where anything was possible:
OoT: Zelda
MM: Though Zelda isn't really in the game, I'd choose her anyway
TP: Zelda, because I'd rather set myself on fire before I'd ever consider the LinkxMidna pairing.

Of course, my opinions are probably not as relevent as others I'm sure, but hey...anything's possible to an extent.

Originally Posted by Dragon_Goddess

I haven't played every single LoZ game to date, but this is what I think for the ones I have played....based on reality.
Ocarina of Time: Malon
Majora's Mask: I forgot her name, but she lives at the ranch...about Link's age.
Twilight Princess: Ilia

Just something to note: the Zelda games are not based on reality. Reality may factor in to the look of games like TP but the plot itself seems to suspend reality. Magical twilight realms and monsters? Travelling through time? I find it hard to believe in a series with this that we'd be led to believe Link has to stick to reality and marry the farm girl.

Originally Posted by SecondStallord

However, she is also one of the most unlikely to be the one Link actually ends up with. While it is true that there is almost no evidence against this pairing, there has also never been even a single indication that Link and Zelda will end up together, either. There are several scenes that fans attempt to interpret romantically; but, in the end are likely not romantic at all. I will not discuss each of these scenes here, so I recommend that you read Trahald’s “Ocarina of... Love?” article here on this site; as he explains it all quite well.

First to Ruto: While I enjoyed your argument, I find a likely relationship-ender in Ruto's realization of Link's feelings for Zelda: "and you, you are searching for the Princess, Zelda?
Hah! You can't hide anything from me!"

That's a classic way for a person to react if they've inadvertantly discovered feelings in another. It's even repeated in WW with Beedle at one point when he mentions Tetra in front of Link. So anyways, I see the unlikeliness of Link ending up with Ruto resting in him having feelings for another.

As to the rest: A scene being romantic is often in the eye of the beholder. In that light, I don't expect Trahald ( or other fans ) to necessarily see Link and Zelda's interaction as romantic. Likewise in the opposing view, I don't see Link and Malon's interaction as remotely romantic mainly because I don't support the pairing.
However, there are certain "danger points" to address concerning opposing views, and I don't think the article did it throughly for Zelda's side. ( Ruto's quote, the ending of OoT and MM's scene off hand. )

Sirius B is right...we've never seen Link after the adventure. I would venture to use some of his behavior as a clue to his future however. In OoT, his final scene is a return to Zelda, following this in MM, he is told to go home in the end. Zelda gets the emphasis of importance to him in this game as well. A return to her makes more sense.
AoL, WW, PH, MC, etc all feature her prominently in the endings as well among others.

Bravo,glider, nice to see you back again!

Why does everyone think that Maon is more likely? There are alot of things we don't know about Hyrule, should we really assume things work exactly like they do in our world? Besides, if citizens got upset for some reason at a ZeldaxLink relationship: Zelda or her father could just tell them to be quiet. Heck, they can get whatever they want on a whim! Assuming royalty has power in Hyrule...

Originally Posted by gliderpilotgirl

Just something to note: the Zelda games are not based on reality. Reality may factor in to the look of games like TP but the plot itself seems to suspend reality. Magical twilight realms and monsters? Travelling through time? I find it hard to believe in a series with this that we'd be led to believe Link has to stick to reality and marry the farm girl.

Yes, I understand where you come from. The series is indeed not based on reality, but what I meant by that is in TP Midna breaks the mirror so she can't come back to Link's world. If you remember, when Ilia got her memory back, she told Link that she would wait for him when he finished saving Hyrule, so I would assume that he would go back to his home village if he has no other place to go. I like the Zelda pairing as well, just because I detest the LinkxMidna thing.

As for Majora's Mask, the ranch girl was my ideal choice because she's pretty much the only choice, since Zelda does not really appear in that game.

And for OoT, well....I suppose it could be Zelda, too. But suppose TP Link was a descendent of OoT Link (I'm not a theorist by any means, but hypothetically), what better chance of him being a rancher then if his parents were ranchers as well....meaning MalonxLink. Of course, it could have worked differently altogether, say if Zelda abandoned her throne and went with Link to a small farming village. Anything could happen. Heck, there might not even be a connection at all for all I know. But as you said, Zelda games aren't based on reality, correct? ^_^

Originally Posted by Dragon_Goddess

As for Majora's Mask, the ranch girl was my ideal choice because she's pretty much the only choice, since Zelda does not really appear in that game.

It's the quality of Zelda's appearance in MM that counts over quantity, I think.
"Although it was only a short time, I feel like I have known you forever. I shall never forget the days we spent together in Hyrule...and I believe in my heart that a day will come when I shall meet you again..."

That's some pretty deep and serious dialogue there, suggestive of much more. With Malon ( or Romani and Cremia ) they never really get past the flirting stage. I mean, they open up to tell him their troubles, but it's never a connection to Link ~ rather to the Hero he is. There's something beautiful and intimate in the way him and Zelda relate, especially in MM. I don't think it could be replaced.

Originally Posted by Dragon_Goddess

And for OoT, well....I suppose it could be Zelda, too. But suppose TP Link was a descendent of OoT Link (I'm not a theorist by any means, but hypothetically), what better chance of him being a rancher then if his parents were ranchers as well....meaning MalonxLink. Of course, it could have worked differently altogether, say if Zelda abandoned her throne and went with Link to a small farming village. Anything could happen. Heck, there might not even be a connection at all for all I know. But as you said, Zelda games aren't based on reality, correct? ^_^

The question I have: if Malon had never existed as a character, would Link still be a rancher in TP? I'd say yes for one because it's as much a part of the series for him to start out humble as it is for him to become a Hero. But he never stays that way in the end: for him ( OoT Link ) to marry Malon ( and become a rancher ) is a step backwards development wise. Sure he could crave the peaceful life and escape in her and her life, but that strikes me as him not being true to his new self. Anyways, my point is that in this series, IMO, the beginning state of one hero can't be accurately used to decipher the end of the previous.
In development, I would guess that the thought process that went into this was: " We want to bring back the horseback-riding element. So we have a village with a ranch. I know! Let's make him herd goats." ( I recall reading an interview that went something like that ) I doubt "Link married Malon" ( if that was the case ) had anything to do with this.

Other. Any of the options are viable, of course, but the one I think had the best chance of happening was in Link's Awakening with Marin. They went on a date (and were the same species, unlike Rosa), and Marin was thiiiiiiiiiiis close to telling Link her exact feelings. Then her mushroom-addict of a father, Tarin, had to come and ruin everything. Then, of course, Link woke up. But that's the best match I've seen in a Zelda game concerning Link.

I just read back over my old post, and I realized that I was a lot harsher than I intended to be. I apologize if I offended anyone; I guess I just started writing and my mind took over. I didn’t mean to sound so... fanatical about it.

However, that doesn’t mean that I’m not going to defend my argument!

Originally Posted by Ritogirl

Link X Ruto however is just impossible. Fish reproduce ovipariously and externally. Humans anf Hylians reproduce viviparioisly and internally.

To me, Zoras seem much more humanlike than they do fishlike. I’ve always thought that they were more like Hylians with fishlike qualities, than fish with Hylian qualities. Besides, just the fact that they lay eggs is no guarantee of oviparious reproduction. Take the platypus, for example: it reproduces much the same as any other mammal, yet it lays eggs. (The reverse is also true, whales reproduce ovipariously, but give live birth. This has been your biology lesson for the day.)

Originally Posted by gliderpilotgirl

First to Ruto: While I enjoyed your argument, I find a likely relationship-ender in Ruto's realization of Link's feelings for Zelda: "and you, you are searching for the Princess, Zelda?
Hah! You can't hide anything from me!"

That's a classic way for a person to react if they've inadvertantly discovered feelings in another. It's even repeated in WW with Beedle at one point when he mentions Tetra in front of Link. So anyways, I see the unlikeliness of Link ending up with Ruto resting in him having feelings for another.

That is a very interesting point; but, like you said yourself, scenes can be interpreted in multiple ways. Obviously, if Link were simply looking for Zelda, and felt nothing either way, he would not have hid it from Ruto. However, if Link liked Zelda, and he knew by this point that Ruto liked him, he would likely not have hidden the fact from her either; not to hurt Ruto, of course, but to let her know that he was already taken. He does not do this, however. Instead, he denies to Ruto that he is looking for Zelda, proving that he does, in fact, care about her feelings; and possibly hinting that he may have feelings for Ruto, as well. This is supported by the fact that Impa, when you encounter her after the Shadow Temple, also mentions that Link is searching for Zelda; however, Link does nothing to try and hide the fact this time around. Why would Link hide something from Ruto, yet make no effort to hide the same thing from Impa, unless the two held two completely different places in his heart?

Originally Posted by SecondStallord

I just read back over my old post, and I realized that I was a lot harsher than I intended to be. I apologize if I offended anyone; I guess I just started writing and my mind took over. I didn’t mean to sound so... fanatical about it.

No offense taken here. I personally truly enjoy a well thought out and passionate post, even if I don't agree!

Originally Posted by SecondStallord

To me, Zoras seem much more humanlike than they do fishlike. I’ve always thought that they were more like Hylians with fishlike qualities, than fish with Hylian qualities. Besides, just the fact that they lay eggs is no guarantee of oviparious reproduction. Take the platypus, for example: it reproduces much the same as any other mammal, yet it lays eggs. (The reverse is also true, whales reproduce ovipariously, but give live birth. This has been your biology lesson for the day.)

But are baby platypus's born as babies or tadpoles? ( like Zoras, from MM ) Are they truly amphibious or air breathing like mammals? I can see the biology of an air breathing baby ( Hylian ) crossing with a tadpole ( a Zora ) causing some problems. Maybe or maybe not.

Originally Posted by SecondStallord

That is a very interesting point; but, like you said yourself, scenes can be interpreted in multiple ways. Obviously, if Link were simply looking for Zelda, and felt nothing either way, he would not have hid it from Ruto. However, if Link liked Zelda, and he knew by this point that Ruto liked him, he would likely not have hidden the fact from her either; not to hurt Ruto, of course, but to let her know that he was already taken. He does not do this, however. Instead, he denies to Ruto that he is looking for Zelda, proving that he does, in fact, care about her feelings; and possibly hinting that he may have feelings for Ruto, as well.

I'm not sure he outright hid it so much as maybe blushed or looked sheepish, we'll never know. But anyways, my personal belief is that Link is the type to keep his feelings to himself, and may have wanted this truth ( if so ) kept secret. Ruto strikes me as an outgoing but rather bossy/busy-body type, and the type to broadcast this type of thing around. ( Although I like her quite a bit, don't get me wrong! )
All in all, this reminds me of the typical high school situation where the shy kid has a nosy friend who accidentally finds out who the sky kid likes....and in his/her excitement loudly announces it to the shy kid's chagrin. It may be then denied in an attempt to contain the damage although it is very true. Link himself also strikes me as someone who was bullied quite a bit when he was younger...possibly resulting in him becoming introverted.

Originally Posted by SecondStallord

This is supported by the fact that Impa, when you encounter her after the Shadow Temple, also mentions that Link is searching for Zelda; however, Link does nothing to try and hide the fact this time around. Why would Link hide something from Ruto, yet make no effort to hide the same thing from Impa, unless the two held two completely different places in his heart?

I can see him not hiding his feelings from Impa because she's a very different person than Ruto. She's deep, wise and very perceptive...Link would know secrets are useless with her: she would likely be someone he would feel safe confiding in. She wouldn't feel threatened by Link's feelings for Zelda either ( as Ruto may ) but rather it would bring them closer. Impa too dearly values Zelda.
Impa's not a romantic interest either...I see Link's desire to not tell Ruto also stemming from his sincere desire to not hurt her, rather than from him sharing her feelings. All in all, my impression was that Ruto was bowing out gracefully in maturity with that scene...she even reassured Link as to Zelda's safety. That right there convinced me of her good character.

LOZ: Zelda, only girl in the game
LOZ II: Zelda, they kissed
Alttp: Zelda, no other love interests
LA: Marin, but she turned into a seagull and everyone else vanished so no one actually...
Oot: Malon, Saria can't grow up and Zelda & Link's relationship is reseted when they all go back in time and w/o Ganondorf and the whatnot it probably won't get started up again.
MM: Malon, it's the same Link as Oot, and why would Malon give Epona to Link?
WW: Tetra, only kid his age except that brat on Outset
PH: Ditto
TP: Link and Midna got very attached to eachother didn't they? But the mirror is gone so much for that... Then Zelda doesn't even know Link and Ilia is just... shudders.... anyways don't want to get into that... so the only girl left is probably Hena! If I was Link I'd make that choice...