General Timeline Questions

1. I've noticed that the timeline favoured by many other sites ignore the games involving Vaati, claiming that it's impossible to determine where it fits in, even saying that it's completely separate to the main (Ganon) saga. I don't know how they can say that, what with FSA. What do you guys think?

2. Wind Waker refers to the Hero of Time leaving Hyrule and being separated from the Triforce of Courage. Most people assume it means Termina, but what if it means his quest to destroy Soul Edge?

Yes another timeline Thread with the first post again! Yaaay!

Ahemm... Now FSA is very interesting. It has many key points given to put it in the timeline with the rest of the LoZ's here are the key points to look at:

1. Zelda refers Ganon to an evil spirit reborn from long ago. This means that FSA comes after a LoZ where Ganon was completly destroyed last (WW), thus he was needed to be reborn by means of dark magic we are unaware of now.

2. FSA features the Knights of Hyrule, which are spoken of in ALttP in past tence scenarios. My guess is that FSA comes before ALttP based on this evidence.

3. The Black Tower in FSA resembles Ganon's Tower from WW and it is located in the west - northwestern area from Hyrule Castle as it is in WW under the Great Sea.

4. The existence of the Dark World gives off that FSA comes after a LoZ where the Sacred Realm was last contaminated by evil. OoT is the only known LoZ to gives this evidence as well as ALttP.

NOTE: The FSA prologue states back to the most recent FS legend, that being FS, so FS comes directly before FSA. TMC I will digress on later.

Looking at all of these facts I will provide a little portion of the timeline where the FS saga fits in the overall timeline here:

(TMC), OoT, MM, TP, WW, FS, FSA, & ALttP

TMC is very debatable where it goes but Anouma has said that it is the oldest LoZ, so it must come before OoT. But anyway this is what I can provide to you so far. This is my timelime if your interested:

TMC, OoT, MM, TP, WW, FS, FSA, ALttP, LA, OoS/OoA, LoZ, & AoL

Dude dont take Soul Caliber seriously.... It has no play into the Zelda series please man please.
You know that feeling when you completely lose faith in humanity......
Now is such a time.

LOZ Historian: Yeah, I definitely agree that FSA is the Imprisoning War referred to in ALttP. I see your point about the Dark World, but I don't think it necessarily means anything. And I had always guessed that TMC is the first in the Timeline. Thanks for telling me that Anouma confirmed it.

mechguy: Although I wasn't entirely serious, I will say that you shouldn't assume that it's not part of the official story. It could be...

But to add to my list of questions...

3. What are the odds that the legendary king referred to in the backstory of AoL is one of the Links himself? If so, my money's on the Link that was in LA. My explanation for this is that the manual says that after defeating Ganon, Link went on a voyage. This means that, having beaten Ganon, the Link has a pretty good shot at already having the Triforce of Courage (since some games in which he beats Ganon end with him having it), and possibly all three (if the Link of LA is, as believed, the Link of ALttP). Could Koholint be the Triforce of Courage's expression of Link's desire for adventure? Or possibly a response to self-doubt? If so, it would explain the "King's" claim in the AoL manual that the Triforce of Courage is dangerous if you don't have a very particular personality.

4. It is a given that there has been more than one Link and more than one Zelda. Does anyone think there has been more than one Ganon? E.g. if, say, LoZ and AoL are placed before OoT, then one could say that Ganondorf is a reincarnation of Ganon, who was simply a blue Moblin by birth. This, then, results in Ganondorf transforming into a Moblin from the power of the Triforce, as a result of his previous life? Bear in mind that that's just an example of how there could be more than one Ganon

4a. Has there been more than one Twinrova? Twinrova dies in both games in which she features.

4b. If OoT Ganondorf were a reincarnation of a previous Ganon, could that have been by design? Koume and Kotake can't BOTH be his mother, unless A- they were in Twinrova form for 9 months (and even then, I can't imagine any man hitting that), or B- magic was involved.

Originally Posted by Evilsbane

What are the odds that the legendary king referred to in the backstory of AoL is one of the Links himself? If so, my money's on the Link that was in LA.

I don't know what other knights your talking about from AoL except of the ones that taught you different sword battling techniques... the only knights that exist through out the "known" Hyrule's history are the Knights of Hyrule that protected the Royal Family during the Seal War (predating ALttP).

Originally Posted by Evilsbane

My explanation for this is that the manual says that after defeating Ganon, Link went on a voyage. This means that, having beaten Ganon, the Link has a pretty good shot at already having the Triforce of Courage (since some games in which he beats Ganon end with him having it), and possibly all three (if the Link of LA is, as believed, the Link of ALttP). Could Koholint be the Triforce of Courage's expression of Link's desire for adventure? Or possibly a response to self-doubt? If so, it would explain the "King's" claim in the AoL manual that the Triforce of Courage is dangerous if you don't have a very particular personality.

Your perception of symbolism in LA is off. Let me remind you that LA was meant to be the official sequal LoZ to come after ALttP. The LA manual even refers to him as the Legendary Hero, which is the official title of the hero of Hyrule from the ALttP era. ALttP and LA feature the same Link and therefore come after one another. Also note that the essence of the Triforce said that the Triforce will stay with the owner as long as the person lives. This gives evidence that the Triforce was taken back with Link to the Royal Family before he left Hyrule. Presumably this leads into the Oracle LoZ's because the Royal Family in fact owns the Triforce. This is the only recorded time that Hyrule Castle housed the Triforce. Actually the AoL prologue that talks of the LoZ where the Royal Family's King owned the Triforce as well.

As you already notice that the fact of the Triforce being prompt in the Oracle Legends and also being in the Royal Family's possession still up to these events of the LoZ told by Impa in AoL, undoubtfully puts these LoZ's in this order:

ALttP, LA, OoS/OoA, LoZ, & AoL

Note that even though Link from the LoZ and AoL era obtained the Triforce and it stayed in his posession as the Triforce Legends stated in ALttP, the Oracle Legends can't come after it because the Death of Ganon was in Death Mountain in the LoZ opposed to the fact that Ganon was destroyed in the Evil Realm/Dark World in ALttP. In OoS/OoA, Twinrova is trying to revive Ganon's spirit back from this place that was where Ganon's recent downfall took place. Clearly the ending of ALttP matches right into the events of OoS/OoA moreso than the LoZ and AoL endings.

Originally Posted by Evilsbane

4. It is a given that there has been more than one Link and more than one Zelda. Does anyone think there has been more than one Ganon? E.g. if, say, LoZ and AoL are placed before OoT, then one could say that Ganondorf is a reincarnation of Ganon, who was simply a blue Moblin by birth. This, then, results in Ganondorf transforming into a Moblin from the power of the Triforce, as a result of his previous life? Bear in mind that that's just an example of how there could be more than one Ganon

There are different Links and Zelda's. Some Links are related to each other and some are not. The bloodline of all the Zeldas are of the same descent. Ganon however is an evil spirit that can not be completly destroyed. His physical form can be destroyed but his soul remains and can be revived in various ways. In every LoZ we deal with the SAME Ganon in spirit, but a different Ganon in physical forms. So not quite multiple Ganons just reincarnations of the same evil spirit. The Sages work the same way as Ganon's Spirit. The Sages can either be carried by bloodline or by spirit. OoT makes proof of this matter by having Raurul calls out to the Sages as the Ancient Creators of Hyrule. This implies that their were sages before them that carried on some type of bloodline before them.

I highly doubt that the LoZ and AoL come before OoT. You have towns named after the sages that existed in OoT. That does not make since in itself.

Originally Posted by Evilsbane

4a. Has there been more than one Twinrova? Twinrova dies in both games in which she features.

No. There is one Twinrova. If you believe in the Linear Timeline Theory and that the Adult Timeline does not exist by time altering then the only timeline is the child timeline. Thus Twinrova was never destroyed in the child timeline and she can still be alive up to the Oracle Legends.

Originally Posted by Evilsbane

4b. If OoT Ganondorf were a reincarnation of a previous Ganon, could that have been by design? Koume and Kotake can't BOTH be his mother, unless A- they were in Twinrova form for 9 months (and even then, I can't imagine any man hitting that), or B- magic was involved.

OoT stated that Koume and Ktake were Gnondorf's SUROGATE mothers - meaning step mothers. OoT Ganon is known to be the first and foremost original Ganon originating from where the cursed spirit was born. Ganondor actually coud have been perfectly a normal being,but under Twinrova's upbringing through corruption and dark magic, Ganondorf'sspirit became cursed and twisted. Its the perfect solution to why Ganondorf's spirit became damned and would last fore eternity never being completly rid of. Perhaps it was Twinrova's goal to beset Ganon to wrought upon Hyrule forever...

Originally Posted by LOZ Historian

I don't know what other knights your talking about from AoL except of the ones that taught you different sword battling techniques... the only knights that exist through out the "known" Hyrule's history are the Knights of Hyrule that protected the Royal Family during the Seal War (predating ALttP).

Umm... I said King. What I meant was, could the King mentioned in the backstory to AoL - the one who ruled Hyrule with the Triforce and, nearing death, sealed the Triforce of Courage into the Great Palace - be one of the Links.

Originally Posted by LOZ Historian

Your perception of symbolism in LA is off. Let me remind you that LA was meant to be the official sequal LoZ to come after ALttP. The LA manual even refers to him as the Legendary Hero, which is the official title of the hero of Hyrule from the ALttP era. ALttP and LA feature the same Link and therefore come after one another. Also note that the essence of the Triforce said that the Triforce will stay with the owner as long as the person lives. This gives evidence that the Triforce was taken back with Link to the Royal Family before he left Hyrule. Presumably this leads into the Oracle LoZ's because the Royal Family in fact owns the Triforce. This is the only recorded time that Hyrule Castle housed the Triforce. Actually the AoL prologue that talks of the LoZ where the Royal Family's King owned the Triforce as well.

As you already notice that the fact of the Triforce being prompt in the Oracle Legends and also being in the Royal Family's possession still up to these events of the LoZ told by Impa in AoL, undoubtfully puts these LoZ's in this order:

ALttP, LA, OoS/OoA, LoZ, & AoL

Note that even though Link from the LoZ and AoL era obtained the Triforce and it stayed in his posession as the Triforce Legends stated in ALttP, the Oracle Legends can't come after it because the Death of Ganon was in Death Mountain in the LoZ opposed to the fact that Ganon was destroyed in the Evil Realm/Dark World in ALttP. In OoS/OoA, Twinrova is trying to revive Ganon's spirit back from this place that was where Ganon's recent downfall took place. Clearly the ending of ALttP matches right into the events of OoS/OoA moreso than the LoZ and AoL endings.

I'm afraid you've absolutely lost me.

Originally Posted by LOZ Historian

There are different Links and Zelda's. Some Links are related to each other and some are not. The bloodline of all the Zeldas are of the same descent. Ganon however is an evil spirit that can not be completly destroyed. His physical form can be destroyed but his soul remains and can be revived in various ways. In every LoZ we deal with the SAME Ganon in spirit, but a different Ganon in physical forms. So not quite multiple Ganons just reincarnations of the same evil spirit. The Sages work the same way as Ganon's Spirit. The Sages can either be carried by bloodline or by spirit. OoT makes proof of this matter by having Rauru calls out to the Sages as the Ancient Creators of Hyrule. This implies that their were sages before them that carried on some type of bloodline before them.

I highly doubt that the LoZ and AoL come before OoT. You have towns named after the sages that existed in OoT. That does not make since in itself.

1. Reincarnations of an evil spirit, yes that's what I meant.
2. I was under the impression that Rauru was calling out to the Goddesses to empower the Sage's Seal.

Originally Posted by LOZ Historian

No. There is one Twinrova. If you believe in the Linear Timeline Theory and that the Adult Timeline does not exist by time altering then the only timeline is the child timeline. Thus Twinrova was never destroyed in the child timeline and she can still be alive up to the Oracle Legends.

That makes sense.

Originally Posted by LOZ Historian

OoT stated that Koume and Ktake were Gnondorf's SUROGATE mothers - meaning step mothers. OoT Ganon is known to be the first and foremost original Ganon originating from where the cursed spirit was born. Ganondor actually coud have been perfectly a normal being,but under Twinrova's upbringing through corruption and dark magic, Ganondorf'sspirit became cursed and twisted. Its the perfect solution to why Ganondorf's spirit became damned and would last fore eternity never being completly rid of. Perhaps it was Twinrova's goal to beset Ganon to wrought upon Hyrule forever...

Surrogate mother does not equal step mother. A surrogate mother is one who gives birth to the child whilst not actually having anything to do with its genetic makeup.

Originally Posted by Evilsbane

Umm... I said King. What I meant was, could the King mentioned in the backstory to AoL - the one who ruled Hyrule with the Triforce and, nearing death, sealed the Triforce of Courage into the Great Palace - was one of the Links.

Yes. Ans what I mean't was to say earlier what you did not understand, was that Hyrule's Royal Family possesing the entire Triforce in during the era in which the AoL prologue talks of, comes some time after the Oracle Legends where the Triforce was also at the disposal of use to the Royal Family of that era. No do you understand why I believe that OoS/OoA comes before the LoZ and AoL.

Originally Posted by Evilsbane

Surrogate mother does not equal step mother. A surrogate mother is one who gives birth to the child whilst not actually having anything to do with its genetic makeup.

My bad. I have no idea nor do I want to give a theory on how Ganondorf is born.

Now I'm totally confused. I never mentioned the Oracle games, why are you bringing them up? I'm simply saying that maybe, one of the Links (using the Link from ALttP and LA as an example) could have ascended to the throne of Hyrule (possibly by marrying the relevant Zelda of the time) and become the Triforce-wielding King of AoL's backstory. I merely used the Link of Link's Awakening as an example in order to put forward a theory why the Triforce of Courage could be dangerous.

Originally Posted by Evilsbane

Now I'm totally confused. I never mentioned the Oracle games, why are you bringing them up? I'm simply saying that maybe, one of the Links (using the Link from ALttP and LA as an example) could have ascended to the throne of Hyrule (possibly by marrying the relevant Zelda of the time) and become the Triforce-wielding King of AoL's backstory. I merely used the Link of Link's Awakening as an example in order to put forward a theory why the Triforce of Courage could be dangerous.

Sorry. I was trying to back up a little order of part of the timeline in your theory, that way you had a solid base to build upon. I will digress if you like and forget that you even wanted to make a timeline in this thread.

Well, I wasn't proposing a timeline theory as such, I was just putting forth hypothetical variations on the usual timeline theories and asking you guys (or, apparently, just you, LOZ Historian) what you thought of the feasibility of such variations.

But, if it makes things easier to understand, I'll put them all in one timeline theory.

OoT Backstory:
Goddesses create Hyrule, leave and cause a rift in dimensions at their exit point. They leave a relic called the Light Force in the rift, which later is called the Sacred Realm.

TMC Backstory:
Crisis occurs, Picori arrive from Sacred Realm and give a Hero the Four Sword they have forged, plus the Light Force to the Royal Family.

TMC:
Vaati appears, sucks much of Light Force from within Princess Zelda I. Vaati is sealed inside Four Sword by Link I. Light Force deemed to be at risk while in Hyrule, returned to Sacred Realm.

FS:
Vaati rises again, is destroyed again by Link II

FSA: Man named Ganondorf steals Dark Mirror, tricks Link III into releasing Vaati. Steals Trident of Power, destroys Vaati for failing to kill Link III. Then sealed in Sacred Realm by Link III.

ALttP Backstory:
Unfortunately, Light Force is in Sacred Realm. Ganon seizes Light Force, unfortunately (for him) still sealed.

ALttP:
Ganon uses wizard named Agahnim to break free. Destroyed by Link IV, who gains Golden Power for himself and wishes for everything to return to normal

LA:
Link IV goes on voyage of self-discovery. Triforce fulfils this subconscious wish by making an island appear and giving him a quest to overcome, plus the dream of Marin makes him marry Zelda IV upon his return to Hyrule

AoL Backstory:
Link IV decides Light Force may be dangerous even if holder is good person, splits Light Force into three. Makes a wish for those worthy of a particular piece to gain a crest on their hand. No suitable candidates for Triforce of Courage are found, so makes a wish that you only get one piece if you don't possess all qualities in balance. After his death, his son gets the Triforce of Power only, while the Triforce of Wisdom automatically goes to his daughter Zelda V and the Triforce of Courage goes to the Great Palace. Zelda is sent to sleep by magician. Her brother enshrines her in North Castle and takes her Triforce of Wisdom, decrees every Royal daughter shall be named Zelda from then on.

LoZ:
Link IV's blood is sprinkled on Ganon's remains. Ganon is revived, steals Triforce of Power and kidnaps Zelda VI, but she has already hidden Triforce of Wisdom. Link V retrieves it and kills Ganon, retrieving Triforce of Power.

AoL:
Link V gets crest of Courage on hand, Impa I tells him of third Triforce and of the King's wishes. Retrieves it and wakes Zelda V. Triforce is then returned to Sacred Realm.

OoT Backstory 2:
War rages in Hyrule. Witches Twinrova use this opportunity to reincarnate Ganon as a Gerudo. When grown up,he goes off to steal Triforce but finds it better locked away, this time by a new Hylian Blade named the Master Sword, which evil cannot touch.

OoT:
Ganondorf gains entry to Sacred Realm, but old King Link IV's wish remains. Ganondorf gets Triforce of Power, other two pieces go to Link VI and Zelda VII. Ganondorf is eventually destroyed and sealed in Sacred Realm, Zelda sends Link back in time.

MM: Link VI goes to Termina and loses Triforce of Courage

WW Backstory:
Ganon returns. Link does not. Hyrule is flooded.

WW: Ganon breaks free, assembles Triforce. Loses all three when King Daphnes beats him to the punch.

OoA/OoS: Link VII finds Triforce. Is sent on quest. Twinrova revives Ganon again. Ganon killed again.


Just thrown together as an example of the variations in action, though having all the variations in one timeline theory makes for one complicated timeline. Not meant to be taken seriously

For being "just thrown together", that's pretty good.

Thanks!
My main concern in that Timeline was the whole "crest on hand" thing. In the AoL manual it says that the old King cast a spell that made a crest appear on people's hands. So that's why, in this timeline, I put OoT and the Oracle games after AoL.

FS link and FSA link are the same.

FSA is not the imprisoning war. If you read the story of the seal war and play FSA you'll realize that they are far too different to be the same.

Link's blood isn't needed to ressurect Ganon between LA and LOZ. Just put the oracles between. Ganon is not killed in the oracles because there was no silver arrow.

Originally Posted by silver arrow

FS link and FSA link are the same.

FSA is not the imprisoning war. If you read the story of the seal war and play FSA you'll realize that they are far too different to be the same.

Link's blood isn't needed to ressurect Ganon between LA and LOZ. Just put the oracles between. Ganon is not killed in the oracles because there was no silver arrow.

1. Whoops, so they are. Hey, cool! That actually simplifies things... a little, anyway.

2. If, by "story of the seal war", you mean the dialogue from ALttP, then I have. If not, then point me in its direction; I only know of the story from playing the games and reading the manuals.

3. You mean have Link from OoA/OoS be the same Link from ALttP and LA? I could... but then the timeline would have two holes in it: (i) the crest on the back of the hand is appearing before the king casts the spell to make it, and (ii) Link would be meeting Zelda for the first time... twice.

In any case, like I said, it's not to be taken seriously. Ask me my timeline theory again tomorrow and I bet it would be completely different - I'm that unsure of the order. The only games that I KNOW come before or after each other are:
OoT > MM > WW

LoZ > AoL

TMC > FS > FSA

ALttP > LA

OoA >< OoS (interchangable, really)

Originally Posted by Evilsbane

2. If, by "story of the seal war", you mean the dialogue from ALttP, then I have. If not, then point me in its direction; I only know of the story from playing the games and reading the manuals.

3. You mean have Link from OoA/OoS be the same Link from ALttP and LA? I could... but then the timeline would have two holes in it: (i) the crest on the back of the hand is appearing before the king casts the spell to make it, and (ii) Link would be meeting Zelda for the first time... twice.

No, I mean just put it between LA and ALTTP. It doesn't have to be the same link. My theory is that after he was killed in ALTTP, many many years pass, then he is ressurected in the oracles. ALTTP, I believe, took place long before even the 400 years in the past part of OOA. Ganon is ressurected but is not killed because link does not use the silver arrow. Ganon simply disapates and goes into hiding (He probably establishes his base at spectacle rock during this time). When he regains enough strength he attacks the castle and regains the ToP.

http://www.zeldalegends.net/files/te...ual_story.html
Read the true translation part under the part labeled seal war. It's nothing like FSA. I once also believed that FSA was the seal war, but after reading this (which I had not read for years) I realized I was wrong. I find it more probable that after he escapes the FS he is, as best as words can describe it, pissed. He sets out to find the triforce (because obviously the trident alone wasn't good enough), recruting theives into his search, and when they find the sacred realm the seal war happens.

Just so you don't get confused by what I have said due to not knowing where I think the games take place, here is my timeline. The OOT on the bottom is the child part.

__________OOT-----------------------?TP?-----------------------------------TWW
TMC--------
_________OOT-MM---FS-FSA-------SW---------ALTTP-LA--------OOA-------------OOS-OOA--------LOZ-AOL

note: The FS series happens close to OOT, possibly even before OOT link dies.

My only problem with you is how you keep putting the LoZ and AoL before ALttP and LA. Put them after the Oracle LoZ's which come after ALttP and LA.

You keep refering to the backstory of AoL wich speaks of a King in an era way before the LoZ occured. The King used the Triforce to govern the land, yet how did the Royal Family then get the Triforce in the first place, or yet, where did they last have it in what LoZ? The Oracle Legends! Can't you see the connections here??? Place all the LoZ's in the order according to the Triforce's placements with the Royal Family:

ALttP - Link brings the Triforce to Hyrule

LA - Officialy taking place after ALttP, Link presumably left the Triforce in the care of the Royal Family before he left Hyrule.

OoS/OoA - Hyrule Castle promptly houses the Triforce.

AoL Prologue: The LoZ - King uses the Triforce to govern Hyrule under peace. A darkness foreshadows over Hyrule and the King splits up the Triforce into three pieces and hides them within the land.

LoZ - Link obtains the Triforce of Wisdom and Power

AoL - Link obtains the last Triforce piece (courage) and makes the Triforce whole. Another Golden Age of peace besets Hyrule.

I also agree with silverarrow. FSA does not depict the Seal War at all, but I do believe that these events are yet to come afterwards since FSA features the Knights of Hyrule and the rebirth of a new Ganondorf - which prooves that ALttP happens in a whole new timeline era not relating to the OoT Ganondorf but to a completly new one (FSA Ganondorf).

Now silverarrow, here you are carrying on that blastfamous Split Timeline Theory, but I am quite literally tired of fighting you over the concept over and over again so I will let are friend decide between the two timelines since they are both in the same oreder, only yours splits.

LOZ Historian's Timeline:

TMC, OoT, MM, TP, WW, FS, FSA, ALttP, LA, OoS/OoA, LoZ, & AoL

NOTE: Now I know tha