Behind the Rupees: Silence, Patience, and Faith

Originally Posted by Tigerboi

You name off all those other games you find worse than WW as if you find it immposible for someone to actually like some of them alot. Get over yourself.

There is no reason you can't like them a lot. My main point in bringing them up is to demonstrate that while I have an undeniable bias against WW (just like you and Mirren have against OoT--it is obvious in all of our cases), it isn't so irrational that I'll call it the worst Zelda game just to prove a point. There is nothing wrong in liking any of the games I mentioned, but for most people, I would think that finding them superior to either OoT or WW is unlikely.

I'm not bias agianst OoT. I just didn't like it as much as other games.

Simple as that. It isn't an attempt to be different. It's not just me wanting to disagree with the majority. It just wasn't as good as the others to me.


Big difference. I'm not calling it the worst Zelda game to prove a point. I'm calling it the worst Zelda because I thought it was the worst Zelda.

You just called it unlikely. Again, get over yourself.

Alright then. Your opinion is unusual. I honestly can't even begin to make sense of it, but you're entitled to it. There's nothing left to say.

I don't really care that TP is delayed because now I know that while TP might not become my favorite Zelda game I will know that it will be a better game if it's delayed rather than if it were released today.Also I don't really care if TP sells less because of the release of the revolution and neither should anyone else.Does it make the game more fun if it sells more no. So unless you own stocks in Nintendo shut up.

By the way good article Lord of Shadow

Originally Posted by Shiek 84

Alright then. Your opinion is unusual. I honestly can't even begin to make sense of it, but you're entitled to it. There's nothing left to say.

Good. Because I'm dead sick of stating this and getting swarmed as a result. You don't have to understand it. All you can do in reality is just shut up and accept it.

Originally posted by Shiek 84
That's always going to be the case. It was much closer to perfection than post games. It doesn't have blatantly obvious problems that almost anyone can agree on. You have to resort to picky crap like "didn't have deep character interaction" or some bogus thing like that, which is still highly debatable anyway.

Oh, I'm damn sure that I could ramble off enough problems, and explain them thoroughly so that people did agree with it. I at one time also thought that OoT was the pinnacle of gaming, the greatest Zelda game of all time, and the greatest game of all time. And then I read complaints about it, and they helped me realize the problems of it. I've done it on several occasions here, and I could do it again.

But that's not what this thread is about, unless you want to get into that.

What do you mean? The point is your quote, "God knows what they did with OoT" is completely ridiculous, considering that it once looked like ass.

Well, you have three pics up there that are nothing by Xs, and I was curious as to what they were because I figured they were a part of your argument about OoT.

My quote isn't rediculous, because I was expressing the fact that Nintendo worked on OoT for years, and it still came out with flaws, flaws which to me, heavily beat down on the game and made it much worse than it should've been.

Originally Posted by Mirren

Well, you have three pics up there that are nothing by Xs, and I was curious as to what they were because I figured they were a part of your argument about OoT.

Oh. They aren't Xs to me. That explains it. Well, there's nothing to fix. They work for me. Sorry.

My quote isn't rediculous, because I was expressing the fact that Nintendo worked on OoT for years, and it still came out with flaws, flaws which to me, heavily beat down on the game and made it much worse than it should've been.

If you saw the pictures, I think you'd see why your quote is ridiculous. You said something to effect of "God knows what they did with OoT" referring to the time they spent during the delay. My pictures clearly show that OoT in its early form looked hideous, or if you somehow liked it or thought it was a "truer representation of Zelda", then at the very least, much different. Substantially different. So different, that implying that they worked on nothing during the delay is ridiculous. Which is what you did. I don't think I can make it much clearer (though it would certainly help if my pictures showed up).

OoT changed a great deal over its development time. Much more than TP will. They were still tweaking the system that would yield (to this point) four 3D Zelda games.

flaws, flaws which to me, heavily beat down on the game and made it much worse than it should've been

Every game is going to have flaws in the eyes of someone. It is subjective. But OoT's flaws are much less defined. You don't hear the majority of the fanbase complaining about specific things. With WW, you'll hear a great deal of people criticizing the sailing, the difficulty, the triforce hunt, the collect-a-thon gameplay, the cel-shaded graphics, blah, blah, blah and so on. With MM, there's much less critism, but a lot of people found the time system an annoyance. Or perhaps the low number of dungeons. With OoT, there aren't many aspects that a large number of people dislike. You really have to dig and come up with nit picky flaws.

For example, I know one thing you'll list is, "the characters don't have personality". Well, this may matter to you, but it is a small issue in the grand scheme of things. I personally found the writing and characters of OoT, MM, and WW to be similar. N64 didn't allow for those phenominal facial expressions, but I liked the characters in OoT, if not for the simple fact that they were simply better characters. The Shiek scenes, while cliched (what isn't cliched these days), were probably the most epic, "cool" moments the series has seen. Saria and Darunia were awesome characters. Ruto, Impa, and Nabooru are "eh" but at least their designs were neat. I felt that the design of the Ritos in particular was pretty dumb--they're just a human with an obnoxious beak. You also overrate the genius of WW's characters. Medli was just your cliched "I'll do my best", "I'm sorry", "I'll do the right thing" anime character. I don't remember Makar saying much. The only one I'll give you is Ganondorf, who was clearly more developed in WW.

But yeah. Why don't you list those other flaws that made OoT not as good as it should've been? Because everyone that I can think of is:

A.) A ridiculous stretch
B.) Marginal/Petty
C.) Also in WW

Let me play psychic:

-Character personality
-Too many dungeons, not enough sidequests
-Cliched story
-Not enough enemies (because sticking 3 of the same enemy in every room is better)

Even if all of those were true, they're more personal to you. I doubt many people are looking at character personality as a major deciding factor in a game's quality. Many people feel dungeons are the best part of a Zelda game. They make up the meat of the gameplay. WW's story is based off of OoT's story, and follows a similar pattern, so that would make it cliched as well. Let's face it. You're still collecting gems. You're still restoring sages. A catacalysmic event takes place in the middle. And my argument to the "not enough enemies" claim is that if you've defeated an enemy once, you've defeated it 1,000 times. Their is no challenge in dispatching the same enemy with the same pattern over and over again. If anything, it just makes enemies seem like pansies.

Hm, peculiar. Judging by their url in their properties, I'm guessing that they're early screenshots of OoT?

Shiek, have you ever SEEN my gripes with OoT?

Not for a while. Those were my predictions for Mirren. If your's are greatly different, then it serves to prove that OoT doesn't have those easily distinguished, blatant flaws that almost anyone can agree on, like WW does. Many, many people acknowledge and dislike the sailing, the difficulty, the triforce hunt, the collect-a-thon gameplay, and the cel-shaded graphics. I don't see such specific complaints of OoT, and I certainly don't see as many people aware of, or harping them.

And what difference would it make? Think about what you're saying for a second.

Does somehow not agreeing on the same flaws mean they're not true? Even though it's opinion based anyway?

Originally Posted by link340

I didn't care of it being delay because I know they may have over looked something in the game since they are working on revolution and it's games. At first I was steamed when they delayed it. The first thing I said was" Why delay it when they can release it now, and then made a director's cut later. This way they can make alot of profit for the people who would buy the game and the directors cut". I started thinking that I may not be able to afford a directors cut. So why settle for least now when you can get the best in one package. So I really was disappointed, but if it's for a better game, so be it. But I still hope that they did not delay just for a revolution add-on......
Also, I did have trouble with ocarina of time a few years back. To tell you the truth, it took me a year to find out how in the heck do I find the fire arrows. I search high and low, but I had no clue. I had no choice but to buy the game guide. I only read the gameguide part where I'm supposed to get the fire arrows, then after that, I put my game guide in a hidden place where I would forget to find it so I can be suprise until the end of the game. Although it didn't took me that long to find the ice arrow(I found it in two years after I bought the game and I played through the game about forty times by the time I found the ice arrows), I still didn't get all the hearts hidden across the land. The heart quest was one of the most important part of the zelda games because you may need it for the up coming enemy's or bosses. Without them, you are in for a bumpy ride seeing that you are mostly hanging over the edge of death because you are basically close to dieing all the time. Although it put's a lot of difficult into the game for not collecting the heart pieces, it was nice to have a chance to increase your health.

This is actually the longest I ever wrote.
I still feel that the delay is not necessary if it's for a revolution add-on. Nintendo will be a hypocrite if they make the delay just for it. They say gameplay come first. But if it's for a revolution add-on then it seem their definition of gameplay has changed significantly.

P.S If you think ocarina of time is the worst zelda game because of th flaws it had for being delayed for so long, then you need to get over yourself's. Apparently you were expecting to much from the game which make you not a zelda fan because you should have known what you were getting when you purchased ocarina of time.

How....could I have possibly known without playing it first?

If you're saying I expected too much from OoT, think again. I just expected it to be up to par with the other games in the series at the time. Which it was not.

Originally Posted by Tigerboi

How....could I have possibly known without playing it first?

If you're saying I expected too much from OoT, think again. I just expected it to be up to par with the other games in the series at the time. Which it was not.

I still don't see how you can hate ocarina of time. It was nice to me and I still feel that it is the best zelda game in the series. Tell me what ALL the flaws that was in the game and I mean ALL.

Originally Posted by link340

I guess it's because you a big fanboy of the old 2-d graphics gameplay of zelda....

It's more like you're too much of a fanboy of the newer graphics.

I agree with Tigerboi OOT was not to par with the older classic games like ALTTP, LA,LOZ and AOL.

*reaches into Bag 'o Tricks and pulls out a Yoda mask*

*puts on*

To the dark side, this anger leads...

Sheesh, people. It'll be good, no matter how long it takes. And even if you hate it, I know you'll all end up buying it anyway. Personally, I think they *are* working on improving the game instead of just being slow for the heck of it.

If you have worries of vaporware, don't. This is Zelda, not Doom 3. I think Nintendo is definitely reliable enough to finish something of this scale. However, there is such a thing as false expectations. Just expect a good game, not a life-changing experience. It's all in how you view it. I say, the glass is half full.

Originally Posted by rvdvrvd2003

It's more like you're too much of a fanboy of the newer graphics.

I agree with Tigerboi OOT was not to par with the older classic games like ALTTP, LA,LOZ and AOL.

Actually, I love all zelda games regardless of graphics. But it's your opinion if you dislike ocarina of time.. So I will take my leave of this subject....

Originally Posted by link340

I still don't see how you can hate ocarina of time. It was nice to me and I still feel that it is the best zelda game in the series. Tell me what ALL the flaws that was in the game and I mean ALL.

When did I say I hated it, first off? I freaking loved the game. But I just don't think it was up to par with the others. I'm not a fanboy of the 2-D games (which would be absudly stupid)

And to prove it, I like MM ALOT more than I ever like OoT.

If you actually care to hear me whine about OoT, then you're a very strange person. But I'll send you a PM if you really want to know.

Ok. I've seen enough fighting on the matter of OoT in numerous threads around Zelda. You know what, it's pointless. It's started to escalate to the point of a mini flame war, which I won't allow. Stop the discussion of the debate of whether or not Ocarina of Time sucks or not.

Everyone has an opinion. It doesn't matter if their opinion matches your opinion, it's their opinion. So stop bashing them because of it.

Originally Posted by Lozzie

Ok. I've seen enough fighting on the matter of OoT in numerous threads around Zelda. You know what, it's pointless. It's started to escalate to the point of a mini flame war, which I won't allow. Stop the discussion of the debate of whether or not Ocarina of Time sucks or not.

Everyone has an opinion. It doesn't matter if their opinion matches your opinion, it's their opinion. So stop bashing them because of it.

I said I was off the ocarina of time subject. It's their opinion which I cannot change.