Two spots for TMC

Ok, before you go and say this should be in Gameboy Zelda, read this. Now, most people feel that TMC is after Oot, since Eiji himself says Oot' first, but now that I've thought about it, there are only two possible spots on the timeline for it. Before Oot, or after WW. In TMC, the Master Sword hasn't been made yet, or is at least gone. Now, in all of the games with the master sword, it is returned to its pedestal(except in WW). Now, if it was returned, where is it in TMC? Exactly. For WW, Hyrule was probably drained, and Ganondorf was still on top of the casle. Of course, the former castle probably was not found, and no one knew of the master sword, since Link's battle was then a legend. See? It fits both ways. Of course, the more probable of these is before Oot. If you can find anything against this, tell me. I'm convinced it's before Oot though. Any evidence for or against it are appreciated.

Wait hold on, your assuming that TMC is a game that relates to the use of the master sword, but it isn't TMC is the first game in the Foursword saga. According to your theoty, LoZ/AoL could very well come before OoT or after tWW because there is no master sword.

It has to be after TWW. If you think about it the 3 gods werent mention which means it's not the "original" Hyrule so it can't be before OoT. Here check this out: My theory
You'll see what I mean...hopefully

Originally Posted by vacumgod

Wait hold on, your assuming that TMC is a game that relates to the use of the master sword, but it isn't TMC is the first game in the Foursword saga. According to your theoty, LoZ/AoL could very well come before OoT or after tWW because there is no master sword.

I didn't say TMC relates to the use of the master sword! Where'd you get that? As for the Loz/Aol thing, yes, they could for all we know.

And HeroOfTime5, yes, I see what you mean. But the story of the triforce wasn't relavent in TMC, for the story of the picori was the main idea. They never said anywhere that they didn't believe in the triforce. Also, not everyone knew the legend of the picori in the game either. Maybe the same with the triforce. Some people in Tmc didn't believe the story of the picori, did they? Maybe the same with the triforce. Get my idea?

Originally Posted by Triforcer

I didn't say TMC relates to the use of the master sword! Where'd you get that? As for the Loz/Aol thing, yes, they could for all we know.

And HeroOfTime5, yes, I see what you mean. But the story of the triforce wasn't relavent in TMC, for the story of the picori was the main idea. They never said anywhere that they didn't believe in the triforce. Also, not everyone knew the legend of the picori in the game either. Maybe the same with the triforce. Some people in Tmc didn't believe the story of the picori, did they? Maybe the same with the triforce. Get my idea?

How would you explain the Geography of TMC? It's like almost completey different.

Now, if it was returned, where is it in TMC? Exactly.

That doesn't really prove anything. The only area in TMC that's in the other games is Lake Hylia. It could very well be in a different region in Hyrule. Kind of like AoL, where North Castle is in the northern regions. And the Triforce has been forgotten in TMC. Sure, they have the SYMBOL, but the ARTEFACT has been forgotten. So, until they start making other games that takes place before OoT I doubt TMC is before OoT.

Yes, there are evidence in the game that the Triforce as an artefact is forgotten. One or two of the NPCs say that there can not exist a power so powerful as the Light Force.

I believe it is ancient Hyrule. Over time the minish woods became tainted and were renamed the lost woods. When Volvagia first terrorized the Gorons and the legendary goron hero slayed him, many lives were lost and Mt. Crenal was renamed Death Mountain. (That's just my theory.) FSA, which happens long after TMC, talks about Vaati being *old news* and Ganon being the new king of darkness. This points to Vaati being more ancient than Ganon, which thus points to TMC being before OOT, most likely before Ganon was even born. If it was after, how do you explain Ganon escaping from his stone prison to appear in FSA. We also know that Ganon's first chronological appearance is OOT, so Ganon's being young in FSA supports that there are multiple timelines, with TMC taking place before the split.

Actually, in the same game it's stated that Ganon is reborn from, yes, an ancient daemon. So, there are no evidence that Vaati came before. However, it DOES hint that FSA comes after LoZ.

As for Mt. Crenel, in TMC it's stated that the Gorons no longer lives there. Y'know, that fits with ALttP (Japanese version) which says that there once was a high mountain people living at Hebura Mountain (Death Mountain in the English version).

Now, if we look on it logically then TMC must be sometime between OoT and ALttP (if Death, Hebura and Crenel is the same mountain). At the time it's called Mt. Crenel the Gorons have moved, but the people still remember them as being the former inhabitents of Death Mountain. By the time of ALttP, though, they have become a lost civilization that is not remembered by name.

Originally Posted by Thunderbird

Actually, in the same game it's stated that Ganon is reborn from, yes, an ancient daemon. So, there are no evidence that Vaati came before. However, it DOES hint that FSA comes after LoZ.

As for Mt. Crenel, in TMC it's stated that the Gorons no longer lives there. Y'know, that fits with ALttP (Japanese version) which says that there once was a high mountain people living at Hebura Mountain (Death Mountain in the English version).

Now, if we look on it logically then TMC must be sometime between OoT and ALttP (if Death, Hebura and Crenel is the same mountain). At the time it's called Mt. Crenel the Gorons have moved, but the people still remember them as being the former inhabitents of Death Mountain. By the time of ALttP, though, they have become a lost civilization that is not remembered by name.

I think you all are missing the point. I'm not saying this directly to Thunderbird I'm just using his post as an example. Anyways Geographicly it doesn't line up. In ALttP the mountains were behind Hyrule castle. In TMC the mountains were NOT behind Hyrule castle instead it was jam in the upper left corner. In oot the moutains were to the right of Hyrule. So I think we can all say now that in geography wise TMC's mountains are completely different from Oot's mountains. See what I mean? If you dont agree with me please I beg you tell me why you don't agree because I'm getting confused.

Originally Posted by Thunderbird

Actually, in the same game it's stated that Ganon is reborn from, yes, an ancient daemon. So, there are no evidence that Vaati came before. However, it DOES hint that FSA comes after LoZ.

As for Mt. Crenel, in TMC it's stated that the Gorons no longer lives there. Y'know, that fits with ALttP (Japanese version) which says that there once was a high mountain people living at Hebura Mountain (Death Mountain in the English version).

Now, if we look on it logically then TMC must be sometime between OoT and ALttP (if Death, Hebura and Crenel is the same mountain). At the time it's called Mt. Crenel the Gorons have moved, but the people still remember them as being the former inhabitents of Death Mountain. By the time of ALttP, though, they have become a lost civilization that is not remembered by name.

Ganon is not a reincarnation of an older Ganon. The gerudo explain his birth and it is even said that he used to be a human named ganondorf, he is definately the same guy. He may be a reincarnation of some demon that we've never seen, but he's the one and only Ganon. His birth being explained by the gerudo tribe gives great support to FSA being early in the line. My guess is after OOT's child ending, but before ALTTP. Ganon is fairly young in FSA and in OOT, so they probably take place at around the same time, but in different lines. TMC, taking place a good deal of time before FSA is logicaly, before OOT.

Biggoron is still at Mt. Crenal, and other than him there are only a handful others found throughout the land. There is plenty of time for them to repopulate the mountain before FSA. In my theory, the imprisoning war happens after ganon escapes his seal in FSA, so leaves the war, and the countless years between the sealing and ALTTP for the gorons to leave. If you think about it, they didn't leave, they are still in the mountains only now they are enemies. No civilized gorons ever appear on death mountain again in my theory, which follows with the oracles, then LOZ, and AOL.

HeroOfTime5, yes, the geography does change, but not that much. Death mountain in OOT could extend to the north and northwest of hyrule castle, but we can't see it because of the "mist". The geographical design changes, but still keeps the general location of everything, meaning it's the same land, but presented differently because we don't want an identical map.

I think you all are missing the point. I'm not saying this directly to Thunderbird I'm just using his post as an example. Anyways Geographicly it doesn't line up. In ALttP the mountains were behind Hyrule castle. In TMC the mountains were NOT behind Hyrule castle instead it was jam in the upper left corner. In oot the moutains were to the right of Hyrule. So I think we can all say now that in geography wise TMC's mountains are completely different from Oot's mountains. See what I mean? If you dont agree with me please I beg you tell me why you don't agree because I'm getting confused.

What you say does make sense, however look a little more closely at the map. Mt. Crenel is west of the castle, yes. But there's also a mountain east of the castle (Veil Falls). Also, there's nothing behind the castle because it's at the very edge of the map. For all we know there are mountains behind. Mt. Crenel and Veil Falls may only be parts of Death Mountain, which we know from AoL to be a very largew mountain. The same could be the case with OoT. But anyway, I don't believe geography is a very strong argument.

Ganon is not a reincarnation of an older Ganon. The gerudo explain his birth and it is even said that he used to be a human named ganondorf, he is definately the same guy. He may be a reincarnation of some demon that we've never seen, but he's the one and only Ganon. His birth being explained by the gerudo tribe gives great support to FSA being early in the line. My guess is after OOT's child ending, but before ALTTP. Ganon is fairly young in FSA and in OOT, so they probably take place at around the same time, but in different lines. TMC, taking place a good deal of time before FSA is logicaly, before OOT.

There's nothing in FSA that says he can't be reincarnated by an old Ganon. Heck, that even seems to be the case with OoT. Or do you believe Twinrova created Ganon? If they didn't, him being a reincarnation of an ancient daemon is the most likely. And I don't think it would make sense if that daemon isn't called Ganon.

Besides, the way it goes on about daemon Ganon being his true self seems to hint that it has to be after LoZ. And TWW proves, by its referrences to MM, that if there's a split timeline TWW has to be in the child timeline, which places ALttP in the adult timeline.

And TMC can't come before OoT... not yet, anyway. I did some thinking on the matter yesterday, and I thought about ALttP and how the Hylians seems to have lost their power.

Now, remember that in OoT they are called Hylians, but not in ALttP. In TMC they are called humans, so that has to be after they lost their power. The back story can still be before OoT, but that doesn't mean TMC is. And saying that no game can come between the BS and the game is, er, BS. Well, in most cases anyway.

It seems to only be a few centuries between each game, but the BS is not even a legend, but a myth. It takes place a long, long time before TMC. Probably as much as 2-3,000 years.

Biggoron is still at Mt. Crenal, and other than him there are only a handful others found throughout the land. There is plenty of time for them to repopulate the mountain before FSA. In my theory, the imprisoning war happens after ganon escapes his seal in FSA, so leaves the war, and the countless years between the sealing and ALTTP for the gorons to leave. If you think about it, they didn't leave, they are still in the mountains only now they are enemies. No civilized gorons ever appear on death mountain again in my theory, which follows with the oracles, then LOZ, and AOL.

Biggoron isn't at Mt. Crenel. He's at Veil Falls.

Originally Posted by Thunderbird

What you say does make sense, however look a little more closely at the map. Mt. Crenel is west of the castle, yes. But there's also a mountain east of the castle (Veil Falls). Also, there's nothing behind the castle because it's at the very edge of the map. For all we know there are mountains behind. Mt. Crenel and Veil Falls may only be parts of Death Mountain, which we know from AoL to be a very largew mountain. The same could be the case with OoT. But anyway, I don't believe geography is a very strong argument.

I see what you mean. If you ask me Nintendo does that on purpose (obviously) That's okay and all but it's not too creative. They do that to leave room so somehow they can fit other zelda games in there. I don't like their method not that realistic. What are your thoughts?

The FS LoZ series falls in this order I thought: TMC, FS, FSA? Anyway I've read what you all have been talking about TMC seeming to be the first LoZ to come before OoT. Well since I have recently completed TMC I noticed that the oracles Din, Nayru, and Farore were in Hyrule. I know the original plan in the Oracle Legends was to bring them to Hyrule to proect them from evil. They must be the same oracles from those LoZ's that appear in TMC because they seem to know Link well. Weird.

I have collected there figurines in my collection of model characters in TMC and I looked on the information on them and it said that Din was from Holodrum and Nayru was from Labrynna. What more is there to proove that OoS/OoA come before TMC. Also in the Oracle Legends Hyrule houses the whole Triforce. The only time Hyrule had the whole Triforce was after ALttP Link obtained it after Ganon's defeat and brought it back to Hyrule. Other eveidence to support the Oracle LoZ's coming after ALttP is that Twinrova revives Ganon's spirit back into Hyrule from the Evil Realm -- The last place Ganon was ever destroyed completly was in the Evil Realm at the end of ALttP. Clearly then the order of the portion of the timeline goes like this then: ALttP, OoS/OoA, TMC, FS, & FSA

Also remember in the AoL manual that it speaks of the LoZ where a King used the whole Triforce to govern his kingdom. Again, the only time Hyrule Castle EVER housed the Triforce was after Ganon's defeat in ALttP and during the Oracle Legends. It is possible that the Triforce itself was hidden throughout Hyrule in different areas some time before the King of that age died. I believe the King even mentions in his dialog where he hid the Triforces. We never here of the Triforce at all after the Oracle LoZ's except in TMC where the Triforce of Wisdom is known to be given to the Royal Family's Princess' posession. The Triforce couod have been distributed amoung dfferent regions of Hyrule after this point or given to another race like the Minish. The Picori would probably be the least expexted race to have such an artifect, yet they get ahold of it somehow. The Picori may have rediscovered it when the King hid it somewhere in Hyrule and they called it the Light Force.

As for the other Triforce pieces, the distribution according to the LoZ told by Impa in AoL, the Triforce of Courage is hidden in Thunderbird Palace and the Triforce of Power is kept in North Tower. Both pieces are in the northern regions of Hyule past Death Mountain. This is why they are absent of there knowlegde after OoS/OoA during TMC, FS, FSA. So what I am saying over all is that the Triforce that is housed in Hyrule Castle in the Oracle Legends is where the LoZ story that is told by Impa in AoL occurs and the Triforce pieces are hidden by the King at that time when it was the only time the Royal Family had the whole Triforce in Hyrule's History. The Minish discover where the Triforce of Wisdom was hidden and give it back to the Royal Family along with the Picori Blade during the Legend of the hero of men that may occur between OoS/OoA and TMC.

Thus I stand by my little portion of the timeline that goes like this:

ALttP, OoS/OoA, TMC, FS, FSA, LoZ, AoL

Originally Posted by Thunderbird

There's nothing in FSA that says he can't be reincarnated by an old Ganon. Heck, that even seems to be the case with OoT. Or do you believe Twinrova created Ganon? If they didn't, him being a reincarnation of an ancient daemon is the most likely. And I don't think it would make sense if that daemon isn't called Ganon.

He is the same Ganon. If he was a reincarnation, what are the odds that he'd also be a male gerudo named Ganondorf, with the exact same life's story? Twinrova raised Ganon, she is his suragate mother, her raising him probably atributed to his evilness, but that's beside the point here. The demon he was reincarnated from could've also been called Ganon I suppose, but he was NOT Ganondorf.

Originally Posted by Thunderbird

Besides, the way it goes on about daemon Ganon being his true self seems to hint that it has to be after LoZ. And TWW proves, by its referrences to MM, that if there's a split timeline TWW has to be in the child timeline, which places ALttP in the adult timeline.

It hints no such thing, it says when the human, Ganondorf, got the trident he turned into the monster, which hints that he had never been the monster before thus placing it before he got the ToP which could be either before OOT or in the child line before ALTTP. And I proved in my last post that TWW does not prove that it is in the child line. Proof is undisputable, I disputed it, thus it is just a theory. ALTTP would simply be in the timeline that TWW is not, which I believe to be the child.

Originally Posted by Thunderbird

And TMC can't come before OoT... not yet, anyway. I did some thinking on the matter yesterday, and I thought about ALttP and how the Hylians seems to have lost their power.

So if FSA is so early in the line, TMC which takes place long before would be before OOT. You believe that FSA is late in the line however, so it would not be the case in your theory.

Originally Posted by Thunderbird

Now, remember that in OoT they are called Hylians, but not in ALttP. In TMC they are called humans, so that has to be after they lost their power. The back story can still be before OoT, but that doesn't mean TMC is. And saying that no game can come between the BS and the game is, er, BS. Well, in most cases anyway.

There were hylians in ALTTP, just not many. (Sahasrala for example.) The backstory cannot be before OOT, the door to the sacred realm was sealed, in OOT it had never been opened. The sacred realm is never opened between the IW and ALTTP, so no game could be between, unless it does not feature Ganon. FSA in my theory is before the IW, which I believe started when Ganon escaped the FS. I believe that in FSA he got the trident because he could not get the triforce because link never opened the door, so it takes place only shortly after (a decade maybe) after the child ending. TMC is clearly long before FSA, so, voila, that's why I believe it's before OOT.

Originally Posted by Thunderbird

It seems to only be a few centuries between each game, but the BS is not even a legend, but a myth. It takes place a long, long time before TMC. Probably as much as 2-3,000 years.

On what do you base this?

Originally Posted by Thunderbird

Biggoron isn't at Mt. Crenel. He's at Veil Falls.

:embrsd: Well, they're both mountains, I got them confused:embrsd: But my point still stands that they had plenty of time to repopulate.

Edit: The oracles in TMC could easily be ancestors. Take Malon and Talon for example, there's no way they're the same people in each game.