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Old 11-08-2005, 09:59 PM
Isaac United_States Isaac is offline
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Is it me or...

Is it me or is Nintendo just getting lazy? I mean, The Wind Waker only had 6 main dungeons as well as The Minish Cap. It's all turning into Majora's Mask if you ask me. Minish Cap also had a small overworld. I just hope The Minish Cap is the last game to have a small amount of dungeons and a small overworld. I know TP will be huge because it's taking forever to make so I'm happy with that. But will this continue after TP? Who knows?
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Old 11-08-2005, 10:16 PM
Sura Sura is offline
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Re: Is it me or...

Well lot I don't care for in some of the later Zeldas. Four sword, Wind Waker, and Minish cap use that really weird art style. Why I didn't like Wind Waker at first look, cause it looked like a bad flash movie or something. (and I was one of those who saw that clip shot from Soul Calabur, and thought it was wind waker) That one thing I'm glade about TP, cause it's going back to grand style of art the it should be.

Minish cap was short, but I liked it. Had some intresting game play, and what can I say. The Minish are freaking awesome XP Do wish you could have done more with them, but over all I think Minsih cap was a good game.

I just think with WW, they had so much into the game, so much to do, a huge world, and all that, they didn't really think about the dungens. You have to sail around a huge map, even with the tornado thing, it still takes awhile to get some place, so they probaly figured there, it was better to limit how much people had to do, to beat the game, so people wouldn't go mad from having to sail for hours to get some place they need to be.

as for Minish cap's shortness, I think it was more like a filler till TP was due. (when it was originaly gonna come out)

least how I see it.
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Old 11-08-2005, 11:23 PM
OldBeane OldBeane is a male Australia OldBeane is offline
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Re: Is it me or...

In some respects it can even be the fans that make the games a lot shorter than what they should. One of the reasons that Wind Waker was two dungeons short is because they were pushing the game to be released around the holiday season... well, in Japan anyways. Huge demand and whatnot.

Of course, as SearanoX said, development time hasn't been as big as some other games too. But as was mentioned, Twilight Princess is kind of building off Wind Waker's engine, even though it has apparently been drastically changed. I think Nintendo ultimately delayed the game to not make the mistake they did with Wind Waker by releasing it earlier than they should, and are instead spending the time in adding more depth and content. So at least hopefully we'll get Gamecubes swan song before the Revolution arrives.

On a side note, I actually quite enjoyed Minish Cap, even though it is frowned upon by many... I thought the atmosphere was awesome.
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Old 11-09-2005, 07:34 AM
Master of ALttP United_States Master of ALttP is offline
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Re: Is it me or...

Well, over the past few years I have noticed a decline of replay value in Zelda games. The first time you play through them, it doesn't matter what you have to do because you are playing the game for the first time and it seems... magical. But after that, everything has lost its hype and things seem more repetitive. Now, with Twilight Princess, my one concern is this massive overworld. You see, we didn't really like the Great Sea because it took so long to get places, but what do we have now? A massive land area for Hyrule Field. I've read that this Hyrule is at least three times the size of Hyrule in Ocarina of Time. That's VERY huge. So, in Wind Waker, you could set sail, go get a snack, use the bathroom, come back, and you're at the island. But, in Twilight Princess, you will have to press down the control stick and tell your horse to go faster. Of course, you could just reset the neutral position on the control stick, but where's the fun in that? Zelda games are getting very repetitive and are using the same exact concepts as games before them.
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Old 11-10-2005, 02:26 AM
e_alert Australia e_alert is offline
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Re: Is it me or...

I find it hilarious how you are blaming Nintendo for The Minish Cap's fallbacks, when they didn't even make it.

I think you are overjudging it and expecting too much, too. Most games are about the size of tMC, or less.
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Old 11-10-2005, 04:55 AM
Hylian Z Hylian Z is offline
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Re: Is it me or...

Quote:
Originally Posted by DemonKing
It's all turning into Majora's Mask if you ask me. ?
What Majora's mask is one of the better games that Nintendo Produced. It was up to Ocarina of Times standards. The 2 games that were put onto the N64 were 2 of the best games ever created.
It's true it had less dungeons but they were harder then the average ones, that had a lot more puzzles and you had a lot more side quests and minigames to do to. Not to mention all the unique masks that you could collect. I definatly don't think that they were lazy in producing Majora's Mask.

Anyway for Wind waker, I leave no comment that was a lame game but I haven't noticed a decline in the quality just a decline in interest. I can't comment on the Minish Cap since I haven't played it yet. But that's my stance on it.
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Old 11-10-2005, 09:06 AM
SoupDetective SoupDetective is a male United Kingdom SoupDetective is offline
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Re: Is it me or...

I think it's just you, after all it takes a hell of alot of effort to make a game of the zelda standard, thats why you rarely ever finf any third party games that a worth playing nower days, especially as you have to take into account that the public tend to expect more from a game since ocarina of times era.

and in any case Twilight princess is supposed to be 3 times longer than ocarina of time, which i consoder to be pretty damn epic, so ezcuse me if i just ignore your premature outspurt.
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Old 11-10-2005, 05:17 PM
SW22 SW22 is offline
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Re: Is it me or...

The Wind Waker was rushed, hence less dungeons. The Minish Cap wasn't even done by Nintendo, it was Capcom. Don't blame Nintendo for replay value in Zelda games, maybe you're just getting tired of them on your own.
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Old 11-10-2005, 05:22 PM
Master of ALttP United_States Master of ALttP is offline
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Re: Is it me or...

Well, it's also partially because some are too long or are too boring and you can't really enjoy a plot twist (Minish Cap) as much when playing through a game for the tenth time.
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Old 11-10-2005, 06:04 PM
Isaac United_States Isaac is offline
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Re: Is it me or...

I liked TMC, it's just that it didn't feel challengiong enough for me. Sorry everyone, I forgot about Capcom. I haven't picked the game up in a couple of weeks.
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Old 11-10-2005, 06:04 PM
deadman_inc_007 United_States deadman_inc_007 is offline
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Re: Is it me or...

By the way if Nintendo is getting lazy they wouldn't delay TP so they can add more dungeons and they would have had more time doing stuff for the revolution
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Old 11-10-2005, 06:53 PM
Frost Guardian United_States Frost Guardian is offline
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Re: Is it me or...

He has a point there. And as people have mentioned, many of the more recent games have much less development time than the older ones. I've always had some liking to the principle that a quality game that requires more delays for its finetuning is well worth that kind of investment in the long run. But a rushed, crammed in game is pretty much bad forever. And as people have said, its a matter of quality over the quantity. While the game time might have been felt shorter, perhaps you found some more entertainment than the others. Hm, I don't know, but I would see that. You should really examine the game's other merits too. A game can be short and still have a respectable amount of replay value. And a standard Zelda game isn't too short either, from what I can see.
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Old 11-10-2005, 07:12 PM
Darkness_demon Darkness_demon is offline
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Re: Is it me or...

Mirosoft rush their game. The best game is one that take 2 to 7 year to make. Nintendo do not rush their game but like "That So Raven" was rush in one year. I wanna to tell you guy about that so we know which game are better and what commpany.
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Old 11-10-2005, 07:42 PM
Ljnk United_States Ljnk is offline
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Re: Is it me or...

i wouldnt say "lazy". nintendo has just been exsperimenting... but if your talking about wind waker, it was been said numerous times that they were rushing... but i mean, look at their new controller... and some of their future nintendo games... just wait... they arnt lazy... and if they are, they're conserving their energy.
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Old 11-10-2005, 10:38 PM
Max Nichols Max Nichols is a male Max Nichols is offline
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Re: Is it me or...

Rationalize it all you want... The last few Zelda games have had a severe lack of dungeons. The Wind Waker should have had at least two more. The Minish Cap was absolutely pathetic, and collecting a bunch of worthless kinstones hardly makes up for it.

Capcom developed the Minish Cap, but Nintendo oversaw it, and allowed it to happen. If people want to blame Nintendo for it's numerous and overwhelming shortcomings, they are justified.

The Wind Waker was rushed. You can't really argue that.

But these are the only games that really fall into this catagory, and they have understandable reasons. The Wind Waker was rushed, and tMC was a quick and messy filler game developed by a different team altogether. Neither of these are indicative of any problems with the Zelda series as a whole.


Development time is not the problem here, really. The problem with The Wind Waker was that they rushed it out, not giving them enough development time... but that's Nintendo's fault.

The Minish Cap was a filler game. It didn't take them long to make it, but it was never intended to be a huge and/or worthwhile Zelda game anyways.

OoT's five or six years of development time was mostly wasted, did you know that? They spent enormous amounts of time on aspects of the game that were scrapped in the end. Did you know that it was originally going to be a pre-rendered game, al la Resident Evil? They actually spent a lot of time working on that version of the game before they scrapped almost all of their work, leaving some of the houses and Hyrule Market as the only thing left from that time. OoT went through at least two such transitions.

So, though they spent 6 years working on Ocarina of Time, they could have halved that time with a more organized development process. The idea that we need six years of work on a game for it to be that good is completely false.
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Old 11-10-2005, 11:08 PM
Citizen Snips Citizen Snips is a male Citizen Snips is offline
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Re: Is it me or...

Very true Lord of Shadow. But Nintendo has also been in a tight spot these past years. They have been making tons of Mario spinoffs to cover third-party and its not very sucessful. Zelda is one of the last francises that Nintendo has that keeps them alive. So if they screw TP up like they rushed Windwaker, they are in trouble. But I dont consider Nintndo as lazy. They have basicly worked very hard to keep Nintendo alive now. TP might give Nintendo a little more respect.
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Old 11-11-2005, 01:07 AM
Andy Andy is offline
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Re: Is it me or...

L-o-S, I never knew that. Every time I see a mod post for discussion, I swear to god I learn something new. I learned two new things from Sear's post, I learnt one from yours, and I learnt one from OldBeane's. Mods rule.

Anyhow, what L-o-S said is important. A good game takes about 3 years to make. TMC was simply a filler by a different team, and doesn't deserved to be judged. However, I found it quite interesting, and it was a challenging game. Call me a noob, but I found some of the puzzles challenging. Most of them were minor sequential errors though...

I enjoyed every bit of WW. I don't care about it's lack of dungeons. It was an interesting concept. They just didn't execute it perfectly. Though they did try to take some of the mind-numbing boredom of sailing off. They gave us the barrel jumping mini-game, little enemies to releive minor boredome temporarily, treasures to pull up, and they allow us to jump on the ship, which was pretty cool in my opinion. Atleast they tried. I also particularly enjoy that game on Spectacle Island, I hope it's re-done in the future.

Despite it's kiddy graphics, it still had it's epic moments and such. Quit being so judgemental. Everybody is a critic. Now sit back and watch the infamous "Wind Waker Sucks." thread ressurect. I sure hope so, that was the definition of discussion.
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Old 11-11-2005, 01:28 AM
Nayru88 Nayru88 is offline
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Re: Is it me or...

Number of temples doesn't make up a good game. Majora's Mask is by far the best Zelda game ever in my opinion. Although there were only 4 major temples, they were sure some of the best temples created.
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Old 11-12-2005, 03:57 AM
Isaac United_States Isaac is offline
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Re: Is it me or...

Well, they may have rushed TWW to get a zelda game for gamecube as quickly as possible to get people buying it. Their games are kind of awkward. You know, Luigi's Mansion, Super Mario Sunshine. Mario Kart Double Dash and Super Smash Bros. Melee were musts, as well as Soul Calibur II, but i mean that's only 3 games. Of course this is my opinion, it doesn't matter what I think about these games.
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Old 11-12-2005, 04:30 AM
Micke67 Sweden Micke67 is offline
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Re: Is it me or...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkness_demon
Mirosoft rush their game. The best game is one that take 2 to 7 year to make. Nintendo do not rush their game but like "That So Raven" was rush in one year. I wanna to tell you guy about that so we know which game are better and what commpany.
If you think Microsoft rush their games then look at Electronic arts.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jarethan
Number of temples doesn't make up a good game. Majora's Mask is by far the best Zelda game ever in my opinion. Although there were only 4 major temples, they were sure some of the best temples created.
Absolutely true... Majoras mask only had 4 temples but they where awsome! and itīs not all about the temples you know... the owerworld and all the sidequest where great too.

Minish cap.. hmm it was kind of good but not enough, the game didnīt had the true Zelda magic. Maybe because Nintendo wasnīt the main developer.
The same about the Foursword but that game is bad if you ask me.

About Nintendo being lazy, yes they have been lazy letting capcom develop zelda to the portable systems.
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