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Old 07-12-2005, 11:24 AM
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Re: The Zelda Timeline Thread.

Quote:
Oh. Well, he definitely died in the original game. I guess that's the only time he dies.
Well I guess, but I put LoZ/AoL before ALttP because Myamoto said so. And the world of Hyrule is still a large land with no buildings, which leads to clues that it is just starting. And we know that LoZ is not first in the timeline, so I think it is the New Hyrule that Link and the pirates were looking for. And they found it.

Quote:
Lord Ganon, the underworlds mentioned in the NES Zelda games is a different phrase to that used for the Sacred Realm and Dark Realm. There doesn't seem to be any connection between the them.

The Sacred Realm is mentioned in LttP and OoT. The same name is used in the Japanese versions, but in the American version of LttP it is called the "Golden Land".

The Dark Realm is mentioned in LttP, OoT, OoS, OoA, TWW and FSA. The same name is always used in the Japanese versions, but the hasn't had consistent translations in the American versions, here are the names used in the American versions:

LttP - Dark World
OoT - Evil Realm
OoS & OoA - Dark Realm
TWW - dark realm
FSA - Dark World

In both OoT and LttP the Dark Realm is the tainted version of the Sacred Realm. There is no reason to assume that this doesn't apply to all of the other games, seeing as the exact same name is used.
Did you even go to the links I gave. The Underworld mentioned in LoZ (in the original Japanese version) was a underground area. The Underworld mentioned in AoL (in the original Japanese version) was Hell or world of spirits. When Rauru was talking about (to Link) getting rid of Ganon, he said he wanted to send him to the Underworld (yes it was the same Japanese word used in AoL). I never said that the Sacred Realm is a world of spirits. The word that was mentioned by Rauru as a place to send Ganon, was not the Sacred Realm at all, but a place of the dead. The idea of sending Ganon to the Sacred Realm was a idea of NOA.
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Last Edited by Big One; 07-12-2005 at 11:35 AM. Reason:
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Old 07-12-2005, 12:30 PM
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Re: The Zelda Timeline Thread.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord Ganon
Well I guess, but I put LoZ/AoL before ALttP because Myamoto said so. And the world of Hyrule is still a large land with no buildings, which leads to clues that it is just starting. And we know that LoZ is not first in the timeline, so I think it is the New Hyrule that Link and the pirates were looking for. And they found it.
TWW doesn't tell you how the royal family got the complete triforce, unless Tetra took it, which I doubt. ALttP gives a better reason, if you read my timeline.
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  #63 (permalink)   [ ]
Old 07-12-2005, 01:29 PM
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Re: The Zelda Timeline Thread.

Well I think Link (TWW) and Tetra still had the power of the ToC and ToW. (This is a theory) When they found a new land to build Hyrule on, they settled there until Ganon retrieved the ToP, which was not in the hands of Tetra and Link. And if my theory about Ganon/Ganondorf is correct (Which I have loads of proof to proove that Ganon possessed Ganondorf. And Ganon couldn't go back into Ganondorf's body because Ganondorf was turned into stone.), Ganon would of retrieved the ToP from the stone Ganondorf.
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Old 07-12-2005, 02:08 PM
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Re: The Zelda Timeline Thread.

I think I've cooked up a pratical reason, of why Wind Waker is the latest in the Timeline. The big clue is the creatures and races. Note, in all the Zelda games - there are Gorons, Zoras and Kokiris. Never is there Ritos and Koroks; apart from in the Wind Waker.

Because, Koroks and Ritos are evolved versions of Gorons and Zoras. And if only Wind Waker is the only one who has the evolved version of them (which is there latest form) that obviousely means that the Wind Waker time is set after all the others. I think that reason alone can easily suggest that Wind Waker is the last in the timeline. Plus, that means that Twilight Princess is definately before Wind Waker. As on the trailor - it shows Link fighting a Goron. And that Goron does not look at all like a kind merchant (as they are on the Wind Waker). Instead, they resemble the tough, angry and potrective race that they are on Ocarina of Time and most other Zelda games. Plus, of course; it is confirmed that it takes place before the Wind Waker (does it?)
  #65 (permalink)   [ ]
Old 07-12-2005, 02:16 PM
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Re: The Zelda Timeline Thread.

Gorons never evolved, wouldn't the Gorons evolve with the Zoras and Koroki? TWW takes place 100 years after OoT, Aonuma has said this, which is to short of time to do the process of evolution. I have said this in another thread that got locked because I answered the question with a logical answer, that Zoras can't evolve in the Rito in a matter of 100 years. It takes millions of years to evolve. But I do believe it is possible for Zoras to be turned into Ritos by magic.

The Koroks are probably a mix of Koroki and Deku (but I don't know about this), or they were away from there original home (Hyrule, Koroki Village) and the magic that keeped them as children was away. Which made them look ugly and small.

Forget what I said about Ganon taking the ToP from a stone Ganondorf, he actually took it when he attacked Hyrule in LoZ, this was mentioned in the Japanese manuel.
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  #66 (permalink)   [ ]
Old 07-12-2005, 02:55 PM
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Re: The Zelda Timeline Thread.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord Ganon
Yes, but this one didn't change (the same word that was used for the Underworld in AoL was the same word used by Rauru in OoT for the place to send Ganondorf). The word means Hell or world of spirits, in either game it still means the same thing.

BTW, there was many names that were keeped, in the Japanese version of all Zelda games, Ganon is mentioned as the King of Demons, yes even OoT.
And you should know that the word "Underworld" was changed in TAOL to
"The Dark realm".
This effects the name in OOT "Underworld" so if they are the same place, then OOT's Underworld would be called the Dark realm
(and all the other names). And it seems to be the same because of the Gameplay.

And being a King of Evil and a King of Demons is really not that different.
He still controls many demons no mater what he's called.

Quote:
I doubt Onox and Veran came from the Sacred Realm, because the Sacred Realm was only tainted with evil in ALttP (in FSA, the Dark World is probably different). I would say they came from Hell but I will look it up.
The sacred realm was tainted with evil in OOT, not ALTTP. Miyamoto even said this a long time ago.
Onox and Veran could have been strong people who wnet after the triforce and entered the dark world and became what they are now.
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  #67 (permalink)   [ ]
Old 07-12-2005, 03:09 PM
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Re: The Zelda Timeline Thread.

Quote:
And you should know that the word "Underworld" was changed in TAOL to
"The Dark realm".
This effects the name in OOT "Underworld" so if they are the same place, then OOT's Underworld would be called the Dark realm
(and all the other names). And it seems to be the same because of the Gameplay.
Was this in the Japanese version? Do you have proof that this Dark Realm is actually the Sacred Realm? Even when Rauru said, in the English dub, that he was going to seal Ganondorf in the Sacred Realm, in the Japanese version he said the Place of the Dead (Hell, I hate to say Underworld because the word Rauru said is the exact word for Hell in Japanese). When Rauru sealed Ganondorf into Hell in OoT he sent him there, not the Evil Realm (Dark Realm). I'm not saying that the Sacred Realm wasn't tainted with evil, but this is different, this is literally Hell. Ganondorf was literally sent to Hell, not the tainted Sacred Realm. So you can get that out of the picture. In the Japanese version of LoZ/AoL, Ganon was the Demon King. His followers literally came out of Hell (or they are in Hell), trying to ressurect him in AoL. This was never changed in the Japanese versions of LoZ and AoL, if it was changed in the American version, then that is NOA's fault. Ganondorf was sent to Hell in OoT, not the Dark Realm, not the Sacred Realm, not the Dark World, not the Evil Realm, and not the Golden Land.
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  #68 (permalink)   [ ]
Old 07-12-2005, 03:33 PM
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Re: The Zelda Timeline Thread.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord Ganon
Was this in the Japanese version? Do you have proof that this Dark Realm is actually the Sacred Realm? Even when Rauru said, in the English dub, that he was going to seal Ganondorf in the Sacred Realm, in the Japanese version he said the Place of the Dead (Hell, I hate to say Underworld because the word Rauru said is the exact word for Hell in Japanese). When Rauru sealed Ganondorf into Hell in OoT he sent him there, not the Evil Realm (Dark Realm). I'm not saying that the Sacred Realm wasn't tainted with evil, but this is different, this is literally Hell. Ganondorf was literally sent to Hell, not the tainted Sacred Realm. So you can get that out of the picture. In the Japanese version of LoZ/AoL, Ganon was the Demon King. His followers literally came out of Hell (or they are in Hell), trying to ressurect him in AoL. This was never changed in the Japanese versions of LoZ and AoL, if it was changed in the American version, then that is NOA's fault. Ganondorf was sent to Hell in OoT, not the Dark Realm, not the Sacred Realm, not the Dark World, not the Evil Realm, and not the Golden Land.
It was the Japanese version and the U.S. I can quote it in English if you like.

Everything you said would have worked in the past but things have changed now. Because of the gameplay, it points to "hell" being the Dark world.
So the Golden land could have been a very nice place till Ganondorf wished on the triforce and turned the golden land in to a place like "hell" which today is called the Dark world.

When you first meet Rauru, he said that the golden land was a very good place but Ganondorf got in and it became a place of evil. This is why he would call it hell. At the end of the English version, he calls it the evil realm. And at the end of the Japanese version, he still calls it hell. As you said.
If you add both version's words in to one, you get the Dark realm or something like it. But the gameplay of OOT and ALTTP point to it being the Dark world.
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  #69 (permalink)   [ ]
Old 07-12-2005, 03:45 PM
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Re: The Zelda Timeline Thread.

He called it Hell as a place of the dead, not saying that it is like Hell, but it is Hell. Hell was never called the Dark World because the Dark World is not a place of the dead, maybe in the American dub but not the Japanese version. The Dark World is the Sacred Realm when tainted with evil. Where is the proof that the Dark World is a place of the dead? The Dark Realm was mentioned in OoS/OoA and TWW, but here is how I see it. The Dark Realm spoken in TWW is Hell, because Ganon mentions he came out of the Dark Realm in TWW in the American dub version. And we know that Rauru sended him to Hell. So you can forget that idea as proof. The Dark Realm that was mentioned in OoS/OoA is probably Hell because Veran and Onox are being controlled by Ganon, and Ganon is the Demon King, but I will look into it and come to a conclusion.
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Old 07-12-2005, 04:09 PM
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Re: The Zelda Timeline Thread.

Quote:
Originally Posted by paulroe
I think I've cooked up a pratical reason, of why Wind Waker is the latest in the Timeline. The big clue is the creatures and races. Note, in all the Zelda games - there are Gorons, Zoras and Kokiris. Never is there Ritos and Koroks; apart from in the Wind Waker.
That's assuming there aren't any Gorons and Zoras elsewhere in the world. At the end of the game, Link and Tetra set out to find a new land. That is, of course, assuming there is still land out there. If they did find a New Hyrule, so to speak, there might be Gorons and Zoras present which were unaffected by the Great Flood. Personally, I'm still a little iffy on this issue.

I really, really wish "Wind Waker" had more evidence to suggest that it's the final game in the time. When I finished the game, I gotta admit, it did feel like the end of the Zelda series. But, now that I've replayed the game, it's clear that they sure do leave a lot of questions unresolved.

The biggest inconsistency is the Triforce. Ganondorf still has the Triforce of Power in The Wind Waker.

There's only two ways to account for that:
1. From OoT to WW, Ganondorf had the Triforce of Power all along.
2. The Triforce came together sometime between OoT and WW, and then Ganondorf got the Power piece again.

If The Wind Waker is the last game in the timeline, then I would have serious doubts about Ocarina of Time being first. ALLTP and the Oracles, with the combined Triforce, most likely would fit before OoT or after WW. The only way it could go between the two games is if Condition #2 (above) were true. It's more unlikely, but possible, I suppose.

I still think OoT is first in the timeline, but putting it elsewhere might solve some problems... Let me see...

A Link to the Past (Triforce complete)
Oracles of Ages/Seasons (complete)
Link's Awakening (N/A)
Ocarina of Time (complete, then split for Link, Zelda, Ganondorf)
Majora's Mask (N/A)
Legend of Zelda (in pieces, I think)
Adventure of Link (ditto, I gotta brush up on retro Zelda)
Wind Waker (in pieces, comes back together at end)

Of course this timeline creates problems too. This looks like an unsolvable puzzle.

I'm really hoping Twilight Princess at least tries to connect the games. And, from the sketchy details I'm hearing, it's not looking good...
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Last Edited by Nameless; 07-12-2005 at 04:15 PM. Reason:
  #71 (permalink)   [ ]
Old 07-12-2005, 04:44 PM
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Re: The Zelda Timeline Thread.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord Ganon
The tunic color and look came from the Hero of Time. The Link in MC had the same tunic look. And yes this was mentioned in TWW.


Do you have any proof that MC extends with two timelines?
If you remember correctly that tradition is only carried out on outset island, so none of the other links would be effected by that.

I don't need proof, the fact of the matter is, it's plausilble, meaning it could work, and you can't really prove that it can't. Also, Vaati being older than Ganon, as implied in FSA, is more of a reason to make TMC first. If I moved TMC to the young timeline before FSA, it would make little to no difference in the timeline, it would only say that ganon is older, which he isn't.

In fact, having a perfect timeline is impossible with just two lines because of little facts like the lost woods are called the woods of light in FSA and are made lost by ganon which would mean it would have to be before any game with the lost woods, which is pretty much unthinkable.
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Old 07-12-2005, 04:48 PM
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Re: The Zelda Timeline Thread.

I honestly don't believe the "two timelines" stuff, unless you believe in quantum mechanics. I, personally, don't. There is ONE stream of time, and when Link goes back and nothing happens, he completely erases the adventure from history.
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  #73 (permalink)   [ ]
Old 07-12-2005, 04:56 PM
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Re: The Zelda Timeline Thread.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord Ganon
He called it Hell as a place of the dead, not saying that it is like Hell, but it is Hell. Hell was never called the Dark World because the Dark World is not a place of the dead, maybe in the American dub but not the Japanese version. The Dark World is the Sacred Realm when tainted with evil. Where is the proof that the Dark World is a place of the dead?
Ganondorfs wish.

Quote:
The Dark Realm was mentioned in OoS/OoA and TWW, but here is how I see it. The Dark Realm spoken in TWW is Hell, because Ganon mentions he came out of the Dark Realm in TWW in the American dub version. And we know that Rauru sended him to Hell. So you can forget that idea as proof.
Why should I forget it? The dark realm is hell in a way.

Quote:
The Dark Realm that was mentioned in OoS/OoA is probably Hell because Veran and Onox are being controlled by Ganon, and Ganon is the Demon King, but I will look into it and come to a conclusion.
Allright then.
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  #74 (permalink)   [ ]
Old 07-12-2005, 05:25 PM
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Re: The Zelda Timeline Thread.

Quote:
Ganondorfs wish.
Ganondorfs wish never turned the Sacred Realm into a place of the dead, it turned it into a evil place.

Quote:
Why should I forget it? The dark realm is hell in a way.
Like I said, Hell and the Sacred Realm (Dark World) is two seperate places. Hell is a place where people go when they die. The Sacred Realm is a place that holds the Triforce, but it's tainted when Ganon tainted it.
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  #75 (permalink)   [ ]
Old 07-12-2005, 05:44 PM
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Re: The Zelda Timeline Thread.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord Ganon
Ganondorfs wish never turned the Sacred Realm into a place of the dead, it turned it into a evil place.
Your point. It's like a place of the dead because everyone who entered after his wish became evil. So in a way. It is like a second hell.

Quote:
Like I said, Hell and the Sacred Realm (Dark World) is two seperate places. Hell is a place where people go when they die. The Sacred Realm is a place that holds the Triforce, but it's tainted when Ganon tainted it.
And the Sacred Realm became what I said in my last post.
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  #76 (permalink)   [ ]
Old 07-12-2005, 05:55 PM
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Re: The Zelda Timeline Thread.

Yes, but it's not a real place of the dead, Hell (the place Rauru sent Ganon/Ganondorf) is literally a place of the dead.
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Old 07-12-2005, 10:27 PM
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Re: The Zelda Timeline Thread.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord Ganon
Yes, but it's not a real place of the dead, Hell (the place Rauru sent Ganon/Ganondorf) is literally a place of the dead.
But the gameplay shows him being sealed in the Dark world.
And the Dark world can still be called a place of the dead.

That's 2 too 1. Do you have anything more to say on what happened to Ganondorf?
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Old 07-12-2005, 10:42 PM
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Re: The Zelda Timeline Thread.

Yes, but do you have proof that the Dark World is Hell? And it never showed that Ganondorf was actually sent to the Dark World, it showed that he was sent somewhere, but it doesn't mean the Dark World.

Rauru literally sent Ganon/Ganondorf to Hell, the Dark Realm that was spoken by Ganondorf in TWW was refering to Hell because he was sent to Hell in OoT. Ganondorf mentions that he escaped the Dark Realm, so wouldn't that be Hell since Rauru sent him to Hell in OoT? The Dark Realm that Onox and Veran came from is proably Hell because Ganon was in control of them, like I said. So think more about what your saying before you say it, since I have already said this so many times.
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Old 07-12-2005, 10:50 PM
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Re: The Zelda Timeline Thread.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord Ganon
Yes, but do you have proof that the Dark World is Hell? And it never showed that Ganondorf was actually sent to the Dark World, it showed that he was sent somewhere, but it doesn't mean the Dark World.

Rauru literally sent Ganon/Ganondorf to Hell, the Dark Realm that was spoken by Ganondorf in TWW was refering to Hell because he was sent to Hell in OoT. Ganondorf mentions that he escaped the Dark Realm, so wouldn't that be Hell since Rauru sent him to Hell in OoT? The Dark Realm that Onox and Veran came from is proably Hell because Ganon was in control of them, like I said. So think more about what your saying before you say it, since I have already said this so many times.
"My power now has only little influence, even in this Sacred Realm...
Namely, this Chamber of Sages.
But there is still hope...
The power of the Sages remains.
When the power of all the Sages is awakened...
The Sages' Seals will contain all the evil power in the void of the this Realm...
I, Rauru, am one of the Sages...
And...
Your power to fight together with the Sages makes you the Hero of Time!
The Hero of Time, chosen by the Master Sword"!

Add this with the quotes from Japan and it shows that there one in the same.

Also like you said in TWW when it says he escaped the Dark Realm, I proofed that the dark realm was the dark world a page or so back.
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Old 07-13-2005, 02:58 AM
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This link goes to possibly the best explination of the time line possible http://forums.nintendo.com/nintendo/...sage.id=707934
I love it. Not only does he include details, but he backs them up!
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