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Old 03-25-2005, 01:10 PM
Dawnfire Dawnfire is offline
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Clearing up the Tetraforce.

I came quite close to not posting this, because I realize the controversy surrounding the idea of a 4th triforce piece. Hoowweeevverr, the Tetraforce (also called Qaudraforce) is a theory littered with misinformation, which leaves people who might have thought "well, maybe.." instead thinking "WTFNOWAY!!1"

So I am going to stress here, I am not trying to tell you that the theory is true, and I have proof. I am trying to get across what validity there is to the Tetraforce argument, and clear up some misconceptions. 'Cause quite frankly, knowing the facts, it can be one of the more fun of the Zelda theories out there =3

First misconception.. the name itself. The "Tri" in "triforce" is NOT referring to "three". It stands for triangle. Proof? It was called a "triforce" in the first Zelda game.. but in the first Zelda game, there were only 2 triforces.

That throwing in of another triforce, while a less stable argument, can also be used to say "they've done it once, they could do it again". I'm sort of just throwing that one out there to say I did, I realize that doing it once doesn't mean they are going to again =P

Next misconception, the origin of the theory. It was not just randomly made up, as many believe. In early beta pictures from OoT, Links shield had a triforce with 4 triangles on it. I'm not just referring to the bird shield that we see in the normal version, here-- I mean 4, put together golden triangles. I am going to provide 2 pictures, and incase anyone tries to say it's photo shopped, look up early beta pictures yourself. It might take some searching, but be dedicated, they are out there.




In all, there were 3 designs (I know of) for Links shield. An even earlier one that simply had the triforce with a sword behind it--



-- The tetraforce shield, and our finished product, the triforce, a bird, and a 4th triangle set apart.




Alright, so maybe we could say that the designers were thinking of putting in another triforce (they've done it before), but took it out pretty fast. Except, why the heck leave a 4th estranged triangle on the finished version? What purpose would it serve? Is it too much of a stretch to think that maybe they were leaving one of their nice subtle hints at something?

What's more, in MM, a 4th Goddess (one of Time) is mentioned. Not too much of a stretch to think 4th Goddess = 4th triforce piece.

Yes, yes, it was a Goddess of Termina, not Hyrule. However, the mention of that 4th Goddess served no point at all to MMs plot. Would the Zelda designers really throw the mention of a 4th Goddess at us for no reason at all, especially after making a show of a 4th triangle present in OoT?

I'm not saying it couldn't all just be coincidence, but that does seem sort of sketchy.

Lastly, once again just to throw this out there.. Tetra. Zelda from WW. Okay, the fact that they named her Tetra could mean absolutely nothing, and there really is nothing to prove that it -does- mean something. However, I doubt they did it in ignorance-- so either they were implying something, or just poking fun =P I thought it was interesting.

Anyway, I have my own theory on how a 4th triforce can exist in the plot, and how they could bring it into play without completely coming out of the blue and saying BAM! 4th triforce. However, I'm mostly trying to lay the foundations for theories like that here, and giving what is generally a dismissed theory a bit more weight.

Bring on the flames, but do try and read the whole argument first =3
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Old 03-25-2005, 02:06 PM
HolyWar HolyWar is a male Canada HolyWar is offline
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Re: Gunna do it XD The Tetraforce.

I personally haven't heard of the Quadraforce theory before but it does lend itself to some interest. I found this tidbit of information a good read. Same with the beta pictures. Thanks
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Old 03-25-2005, 02:39 PM
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Re: Gunna do it XD The Tetraforce.

Wow...i never thought of that...I always thought that the forth little triangle represented the middle of the Triforce..wait, you could be right, cause Ganon, Zelda, and Link all had a small piece of the Triforce, and no one else had the other piece...
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Old 03-25-2005, 02:45 PM
Senap Sweden Senap is offline
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Re: Gunna do it XD The Tetraforce.

Yeah I noticed that when the pics were released way back, never thought that much about it though. It still ended up being the standard Triforce but with a bird underneath.

I am really interested in what the bird stands for though, since the new game has the symbol on buildings and dead soldiers.
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Old 03-25-2005, 02:51 PM
MOTU MOTU is offline
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Re: Gunna do it XD The Tetraforce.

Not that I want to disapoint you, but there is not such a thing, The holy Triforce was created by three Goddesses to serve as a symbol of their sacred bond with Hyrule -- the world they had created. The Goddess Din offered the Triforce of Power, Nayru contributed the Triforce of Wisdom, and Farore presented the Triforce of Courage. Combined, the three pieces formed the ultimate sacred Triforce.
There's nothing more, the goddes you talk about didn't help in the creation of the world, she is just another goddess, and the goddess of another world acctually. The golden triangle in the shield means nothing at all, it is just a design nothing more and nothig less, think about this, that is a shield that you can buy everuwhere, meaning that is done by regular people, why should regular people know about the existance of a fourth piece of the Triforce?
One more thing, Tetra's name is just a name, look, you always see what you wanna see, if you belive that there's a tetraforce, you'll find many clues that will tell you that, but it would be the same if you belive that Link's parents where a cucco and a pig, or something like that, your mind blinds you, and makes you belive in twisted things.
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Old 03-25-2005, 02:56 PM
A Link To My Past A Link To My Past is a male United Kingdom A Link To My Past is offline
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Re: Gunna do it XD The Tetraforce.

It sucks. I've heard it before and would work if one thing was changed. Its name. The most important thing. If it had four pieces it would be called Quadraforce not the triforce. And its my belief that nintendo wont make a game after AoL or before OoT, so the mysticla item is known as the Triforce for the whole of the series
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Old 03-25-2005, 03:04 PM
Showsni Showsni is offline
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Re: Gunna do it XD The Tetraforce.

Since the tri- means triangle, even with four pieces it would still be called the triforce.
Anyway, as there is no evidence for a fourth piece of triforce other than a picture on a shield, we can pretty much ignore it.
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Old 03-25-2005, 03:50 PM
Dawnfire Dawnfire is offline
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Re: Gunna do it XD The Tetraforce.

Quote:
Not that I want to disapoint you, but there is not such a thing, The holy Triforce was created by three Goddesses to serve as a symbol of their sacred bond with Hyrule -- the world they had created. The Goddess Din offered the Triforce of Power, Nayru contributed the Triforce of Wisdom, and Farore presented the Triforce of Courage. Combined, the three pieces formed the ultimate sacred Triforce.
There's nothing more, the goddes you talk about didn't help in the creation of the world, she is just another goddess, and the goddess of another world acctually.
I am aware of the story of creation, thanks XD My points on the Goddess of time were, would the designers throw out a mention of a 4th goddess, even the goddess of another world, just on a whim? Directly after designing 2 shields that both have a 4th traingle on it? Well, maybe they would-- but the point was, there is room for -valid- speculation that they didn't.

Quote:
The golden triangle in the shield means nothing at all, it is just a design nothing more and nothig less, think about this, that is a shield that you can buy everuwhere, meaning that is done by regular people, why should regular people know about the existance of a fourth piece of the Triforce?
The regular people -wouldn't- know about it. The shields were made by peasants, but with the symbol of the royal family on it-- thus that they would know nothing of the 4th triforce is moot. It's an acient symbol, and the acient royal family mighta known. Impa didn't know about a -third- triforce in the first Zelda, who can say that other generations didn't realize there was a 4th? Obviously, it would be an obscure 4th, because it is shown detached from the other three on my only peice of evidence-- the shield. =P

Quote:
One more thing, Tetra's name is just a name, look, you always see what you wanna see, if you belive that there's a tetraforce, you'll find many clues that will tell you that, but it would be the same if you belive that Link's parents where a cucco and a pig, or something like that, your mind blinds you, and makes you belive in twisted things.
Tetras' name very well may just be a name kiddo, I -said- that. I never even said I believe the tetraforce is real-- I personally think it probably doesn't exist. But I also think it could, and it's a fun theory. You're sort of the one blinding yourself, by automatically assuming it can't be true =3 humor the idea for a bit, you might find something someone else missed-- for or against the theory.

Quote:
It sucks. I've heard it before and would work if one thing was changed. Its name. The most important thing. If it had four pieces it would be called Quadraforce not the triforce. And its my belief that nintendo wont make a game after AoL or before OoT, so the mysticla item is known as the Triforce for the whole of the series
I answered this. Triforce does not refer to "three", it refers to Triangle. As said, in the first Zelda, there were only 2 peices of the Triforce, but it was still called "TRIforce".
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Old 03-25-2005, 03:57 PM
Max Nichols Max Nichols is a male Max Nichols is offline
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Re: Gunna do it XD The Tetraforce.

The Tetraforce may be good fodder for low-quality fanfics, but as far as I'm concerned, the whole idea should stay there.

Now, let me show a few pictures of my own:



Notice how it has two extra triangles. If we're going to use a triangle on a shield as evidence for something, we might as well use these as evidence as well. After all, if you consider one shield trustworthy, there's no reason to disregard another one.

I think it is safe to assume that the triangles on these shields are decorations and design, nothing more. Triangles lend themselves to these sort of things very well, simply because of how they can be cut apart, and how they fit together with so many other things. Anyone who's taken a trigonometry class probably knows what I mean. I myself do all sorts of things with triangles, if I'm bored and end up doodling during class. They're just an easy shape to work with.

If we must put deeper meaning into the lone triangle on the shield.. well, it makes more sense to say that it's the Triforce of Courage, to represent Link and the Knights of Hyrule (it is the same shield they use, after all).

Tetra's name is a reference to a fish called a Tetra, I believe. Makes sense, she being a woman of the sea and all.


That leaves the Goddess of Time. Personally, I think the Goddess of Time is simply Nayru.

1. The Oracle of Ages, who controls time, is named Nayru. Simple enough.

2. Whenever you use magic involving time - traveling through time in OoT and MM, the Song of Time, etc. - it is blue. On top of that, the Ocarina of Time is blue, the hilt of the Master Sword (our ship for traveling the stream of time) is blue, the Temple of Time is blue, the Oracle of Ages wears blue. Blue is Nayru's color.

3. In OoT, Princess Zelda is a Sage without a Temple. The Temple of Time is a temple without a sage. Put two and two together and you get Princess Zelda, the Sage of Time. Makes even more sense when you remember that she is the rightful owner of the Ocarina of Time. But Zelda is also the wielder of the Triforce of Wisdom, in all games.

4. Who would Zelda pray too, Nayru, or this Goddess of Time? Personally, I think Nayru would be the more likely, being one of Hyrule three big deities and Zelda's patron Goddess. But Zelda prays to this Goddess of Time. Hmm...

5. Nayru brought order to the chaos of creation, created the laws of the world, magic, water, etc. I think that it is not too much of a stretch to say that she created Time - that fits under the "laws of the world" and "order" part.

So yeah. I think that Nayru and this Goddess of Time are one and the same.


Welcome to the forums, Dawnfire. Glad to have you. I hope you stay around, though as soon as you see how many close-minded morons we have around here, you'll probbaly run for your life
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Old 03-25-2005, 04:41 PM
Dawnfire Dawnfire is offline
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Re: Gunna do it XD The Tetraforce.

Quote:
Notice how it has two extra triangles. If we're going to use a triangle on a shield as evidence for something, we might as well use these as evidence as well. After all, if you consider one shield trustworthy, there's no reason to disregard another one.

I think it is safe to assume that the triangles on these shields are decorations and design, nothing more. Triangles lend themselves to these sort of things very well, simply because of how they can be cut apart, and how they fit together with so many other things. Anyone who's taken a trigonometry class probably knows what I mean. I myself do all sorts of things with triangles, if I'm bored and end up doodling during class. They're just an easy shape to work with.
lord-of-shadow, this has to be hands down the best rebuke to my tetraforce ramblings to date. I've never seen that picture, or heard the notion of Nayru being the Goddess of time. While that still leaves a random fourth Goddess (Terminians speaks of having four Goddesses), it was very interesting to read.

I have to say, in my itty heart, I haven't quite given up on the theory of a fourth triforce piece. But that's mostly because I just like it, and will cackle like a mad women if it proves true. However, I'm forced to concede that you've proverbially shot gunned my arguments. XD

Thank you for the friendly welcome, and no fear of me running. I Smod at the kingdomhearts2.net forums. Ya'don't get much more of a close minded groups than that lot, love them though I do ^^'
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Old 03-25-2005, 04:51 PM
Senap Sweden Senap is offline
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Re: Gunna do it XD The Tetraforce.

The four Gods that the people in Termina speak of.. I am pretty sure they are the Gods that stop the descending moon toward the end of the game.
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Old 03-25-2005, 06:41 PM
Strain United_States Strain is offline
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Re: Gunna do it XD The Tetraforce.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lord-of-shadow
That leaves the Goddess of Time. Personally, I think the Goddess of Time is simply Nayru.

1. The Oracle of Ages, who controls time, is named Nayru. Simple enough.

2. Whenever you use magic involving time - traveling through time in OoT and MM, the Song of Time, etc. - it is blue. On top of that, the Ocarina of Time is blue, the hilt of the Master Sword (our ship for traveling the stream of time) is blue, the Temple of Time is blue, the Oracle of Ages wears blue. Blue is Nayru's color.

3. In OoT, Princess Zelda is a Sage without a Temple. The Temple of Time is a temple without a sage. Put two and two together and you get Princess Zelda, the Sage of Time. Makes even more sense when you remember that she is the rightful owner of the Ocarina of Time. But Zelda is also the wielder of the Triforce of Wisdom, in all games.

4. Who would Zelda pray too, Nayru, or this Goddess of Time? Personally, I think Nayru would be the more likely, being one of Hyrule three big deities and Zelda's patron Goddess. But Zelda prays to this Goddess of Time. Hmm...

5. Nayru brought order to the chaos of creation, created the laws of the world, magic, water, etc. I think that it is not too much of a stretch to say that she created Time - that fits under the "laws of the world" and "order" part.

So yeah. I think that Nayru and this Goddess of Time are one and the same.
Whoa. This theory totally floored me. Nothing can contradict it (and it sounds good), so I will take it as fact!
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Old 03-25-2005, 08:16 PM
Chad Kosterz Chad Kosterz is a male Canada Chad Kosterz is offline
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Re: Gunna do it XD The Tetraforce.

So many things I've read. If you all don't mind I'd like to input my 2 cents.

The "Quadraforce theory" has very valid points BUT the name of the theory is wrong, it should still be the Triforce, as the fact that the fourth triforce added to the combination would still make it a Triangle. And I like how you used smaller evidence in this theory. But one thing, the first Zelda did have three triforces.

Inside Links body(from birth) was the essence of Courage, which if it was drawn out, would result in ONE of the Triforces, which makes him the hero of the story and allows him to command the Sword of Magic(final Sword, possibly the Master Sword?) and use the power of the Red Ring, as well as using the mysterious Silver Arrows. Link was then on a journey collecting the Triforce of Wisdom, which was broken and scattered. And after obtaining it, Link goes to fight Ganon, who beholds the Triforce of Power, which allows his sorcery to become much more potent, allowing him to become invisable, and such other things. Proof of what I say? It shows a picture of the triforce somewhere, I can't remember, my stuff is downstairs. Anyways, so yeah, thats how there IS three triforces.

To the person who mentioned the Oracle of Ages, she is NOT the original Nayru, nor is she the physical avatar of Nayru. She is a Sorceress with powers of Time, where Din is a Sorceress of Seasons, and Farore was the Sorceress of Mystery. Then there are the three Goddess, in which they were named after because of their beautiful appearance and born love of colors(as well as their hair and eye colors, Nayru is Blue, Din is Red and Farore is Green).

I've never finished, or got far in MM , but I'll talk about this too. This Goddess of Time is not apart of Hyrule, just like the Three Goddesses aren't part of Termina(is this the name of the place?). Because IF the Hyrule and Termina were of the same world, then the moon would hit Hyryle and destroy it as well. Its just that Link is the hero of Time(in OoT, OoA, OoS, and MM). Oh and the Master Sword in Seasons is the Master's Sword of Seasons. Every place has its own Master Sword(Except Termina, and Labrynna)

But yeah, this is my two cents, peace.

EDIT: I was looking at the info about the first Zelda, and I retract my statement about there being 3 KNOWN triforces in the game, there isn't. I'm leaving it in the thing because that is still my theory about it. Thanks and sorry.
Last Edited by Chad Kosterz; 03-26-2005 at 01:17 AM. Reason: Mistake Reply With Quote
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Old 03-25-2005, 09:30 PM
tdog101 United_States tdog101 is offline
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Re: Gunna do it XD The Tetraforce.

i dont belive there is a fourth tri-force peice, someone on some site tried to say there was such thing as the neige force, which is supposed to be the single invisible piece in the center of the tri-force. he said it was in Oot and how you get the entire tri-force but his theroy was incorrect
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Old 03-26-2005, 11:12 AM
Max Nichols Max Nichols is a male Max Nichols is offline
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Re: Gunna do it XD The Tetraforce.

Quote:
To the person who mentioned the Oracle of Ages, she is NOT the original Nayru, nor is she the physical avatar of Nayru. She is a Sorceress with powers of Time, where Din is a Sorceress of Seasons, and Farore was the Sorceress of Mystery. Then there are the three Goddess, in which they were named after because of their beautiful appearance and born love of colors(as well as their hair and eye colors, Nayru is Blue, Din is Red and Farore is Green).
You think I don't know that? But the fact remains that she is named Nayru, and I highly doubt that that is just a coincidence.


Quote:
Oh and the Master Sword in Seasons is the Master's Sword of Seasons. Every place has its own Master Sword(Except Termina, and Labrynna)
Nah. Depending on how you go about linking your games, you can get the Master Sword in both of the Oracles. And I consider the Master Sword in the Oracles an easter egg, and nothing more.

And what's this about each place having it's own master sword? That simply doesn't make sense.
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Old 03-26-2005, 11:58 AM
sylverdragonfly sylverdragonfly is offline
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Re: Gunna do it XD The Tetraforce.

I think it would be interesting in future Zelda games to see exactly how this theory plays out...something to look forward too...or maybe it's simply depth perception.
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Old 03-26-2005, 01:15 PM
Chad Kosterz Chad Kosterz is a male Canada Chad Kosterz is offline
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Re: Gunna do it XD The Tetraforce.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lord-of-shadow
You think I don't know that? But the fact remains that she is named Nayru, and I highly doubt that that is just a coincidence.




Nah. Depending on how you go about linking your games, you can get the Master Sword in both of the Oracles. And I consider the Master Sword in the Oracles an easter egg, and nothing more.

And what's this about each place having it's own master sword? That simply doesn't make sense.
What I mean about each place having its own Master Sword, it means that every Hyrule has had a Master Sword of some sort(in the early games it wasn't master sword until it came to Z3). Also, Koholint Island had a Master Sword which you obtain from the shell collecting, in Seasons, you get A Master Sword, and in Ages you can also obtain a Master Sword, but they don't have the same effects that the OoT Master Sword would. So every place has its own Master Sword, and I was reading the strategy guide and It seems that Ages has a Master Sword as well, which I never knew.

Hyrule: Many Master Swords(of Time mainly)
Koholint: Master Sword of Slumber
Labrynna: Master Sword of Ages
Holodrum: Master Sword of Seasons

In almost every Zelda game there is a master sword, and each has its own reason for being there(thus the suffixes of the names...I think its suffixes oh well)

So yeah.
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Old 03-26-2005, 01:22 PM
Showsni Showsni is offline
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Re: Gunna do it XD The Tetraforce.

So you're saying that each place has its own most powerful sword? Which is, I suppose, true. But there is only one Master Sword, blade of evil's bane, created in response to an oracle from the gods specifically to counteract triforce magic.
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Old 03-27-2005, 10:50 AM
Kanji Kanji is offline
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Re: Gunna do it XD The Tetraforce.

This is an interesting subject which I haven't heard of before... Still, it makes a very interesting topic of discussion.
lord-of-shadow's five points seem very believable, and though I tried to find some hole in them, I could not. I'd say that it is the most believable theory posed thus far in this thread.

As far as the 'Goddess of Time' only existing in Termina (an idea stated by kosterz) goes, and the idea about Termina not being linked to Hyrule because their fates were not intertwined..
The Goddess of Time is still Nayru. Remember the flashback scene that Link remembers when he first travels to the top of the Clock Tower and gets the Ocarina of Time back; Zelda speaks of how she will miss him (so, they must be at a final meeting in the temple of time, which is in Hyrule) as well as mentioning a 'Goddess of Time' that will aid him when he plays the Song of Time. This leads me to believe that the Goddess of Time is, most likely, one of the three Goddesses that created Hyrule. As for how she can help Link even when he is in Termina, I am not quite sure.. It may be related to how Termina and Hyrule are almost paralell to each other. It could also be that whenever Link plays the Song of Time, he calls upon Nayru, regardless of where she is or what world she is most responsible for.
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Old 03-27-2005, 11:19 AM
Showsni Showsni is offline
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Re: Gunna do it XD The Tetraforce.

I never really thought about the Goddess of Time being Nayru before, but it does make an awful lot of sense.
Is the Goddess of the sand Din?
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