Behind the Rupees: Forum Dissussions

Hello. Many of you know of the Behind the Rupees dissussions held on the Zelda Universe main site. After asking around, I've been told I could make a thread for my new idea:

ZU members could write topic similar to the BTR. There would be one or two topic per week(I might change that.) After someone submits a topic about the zelda series we would dissuss it here.

Rules: The rules are simple,but please read.
1. No short two lined post- make an effort to go into detail.
2. Respect each others opinions- please no bashing at anyone.
3.Have interesting topics

I understand this may go into shadow but I'd like to give it a try. Thanks.

P.S. I think it would be better if only a selected few could post topics so PM me if you'd like to write.Please show a writing sample. I only need about five or six members I think.

Blade of Evils Bane - Forum Behind the Rupees #1

Here is a key for this and all my future Forum BtR Discussion points:
Title
Brief Decription
Information/facts/legends
Conclusion
General Comments

Here I will create my first discussion point on the forum behind the rupees. Here I will try to describe and link together the pieces of information about the MASTER SWORD, including the physical changes and movement of the sword.


The Article
To start with I will briefly describe the legendry blade for those of you maybe new to the Zelda franchise. The master sword is sometimes referred to as the blade of evils bane. The sword is featured in four Zelda Games. These are AlttP, Oot, tWW and a cameo role n LA (here it featured in a dream). Now I will delve into the endless mysteries the Master Sword holds.

Origin of the Master Sword
The AlttP manual states that before the Imprisoning War began, the "people of Hyrule forged a sword resistant to magic which could repulse even powers granted by the Triforce." The manual also said that, "As the Seven Wise Men searched for a valiant person to take up the Master Sword, Ganon's army attacked the castle”. The manual continues to go into these types of details about the master sword.

However due to the incidents that take place in the OoT, we know that this whole account is inaccurate. Here we are lead to believe that in ancient days, Rauru, the Sage of Light, helped construct the Temples of Light and Time to guard the Triforce against evil forces. It is also stated that the Master Sword was forged in this same time period, and was placed into the Pedestal of Time to seal the portal between Hyrule and the Sacred Realm. When Link opens the Door of Time, after collecting the three spiritual stones and before Ganondorf has even entered the Golden Realm, the Master Sword is there in its pedastal, and Navi helpfully tells you that this is the "legendary" Master Sword.

Now that we know this, the ALttP manual's account of the origin of the Master Sword must be wrong, as well as the whole account of the Imprisoning War. How can Nintendo allow such mistakes? The answer is simple and answered in the same place where the impure information is; The ALttP manual explains the situation perfectly: "Many centuries have passed since the Imprisoning War... Memories of the vicious Imprisoning War faded over the generations..." So the Hylian scribe who wrote up this account was not actually there but was a descendant of someone that was there. Just like the bible. There are many suspected flaws to the accounts given in the bible due to the fact that they were not scripted until well down the line and were simply passed on by word of mouth. If these accounts are minutely changed each time they are told, over time it will make a big difference.

Location of the Master Sword
99% of Zelda fans agree that the OoT is the first game in the timeline (which I will visit in later Forum BtR). So the original location of the master sword must be the location of it during the OoT. So the blade was first located in the Temple of Time, struck into the Pedestal of Time behind the Door of Time. At the end of OoT, we see Link leave the Master Sword in the same place and walk away. So the location has not changed place during this game. Whether the Door of Time ultimately remains open, and what happens to the Spiritual Stones, remains a mystery. It is pretty certain that in OoT's sequel, Majora's Mask, Link does not use the Master Sword so there is no need to account for it during this time period.

Now here is where we know the Master Sword changes location. The Hero of Winds takes the blade and thrusts it into Ganon’s head. When Link takes the sword from the pedestal in the Temple of Time, he releases Ganon and “unfreezes” Old Hyrule. So it is embedded in Ganon’s head at the end of this game, and this is the last account we have of the Master Sword from the three 3D games.

The next game in the series that I will account for is AlttP. During this game there is no Temple of Time, at least not that we can see. The Master Sword has mysteriously been moved to a raised platform in the Lost Woods. It also has a different pedestal. This is inscribed with the words, "The hero will come on Cataclysm's Eve, bearing three symbols of virtue. The Master Sword he will then retrieve, keeping the knight's line true." Who, What, When, How? Presently, there is no explanation any of these questions. The whole time period between the Imprisoning War and AlttP is screwed up. In game according to Sahasrahla, only three generations separate the coming of Agahnim and the imprisoning war. However in the AlttP manual its says that many centuries have passed since the Imprisoning War...".

Appearance of the Master Sword
This, along with the “moving” master sword is the best point of debate. If you look closely at the handle, or hilt, of each version of the Master Sword, you will notice that they are all different. In AlttP the Tip of the Handle is White, the handle is Red and the middle section of the hilt is Metalic. However in OoT the sword has a completely blue hilt. Which version of the Master Sword is the right one? Nobody knows but I’d have thought that Ocarina of time/Wind Waker style is correct.

Conclusion
If there were two Master Swords that would explain a whole lot. Here's an interesting theory. I personally do not like this theory but it fits as long as AlttP comes after the WW and LoZ05. There are two Master Swords. The Original One featured in the 3D games and the Red handled one in AlttP. The Hero of Time left the Master Sword in the Temple of Time. Now in the WW the Hero of Winds takes the sword from the pedestal and embeds in Ganon’s head. Now in the LoZ05, regardless of which Link appears, the Master Sword stays in Ganon’s head and here is where the new Master Sword is forged. So for now, there is no need to release Ganon. Like I said before I do not like this theory but it is a possibility.

Next consider this. This is my Preferred theory. The indifference in colour and look is simply a matter of Nintendo changing their minds on the look of the legendary blade. Here I am trying to describe how the Master Sword changed location from the temple of time to the lost woods. The first transformation is simple. The hero of winds takes the master sword from the temple of time and places it in Ganon’s head. Nice eh? Well now at some point in time (from seeing the trailer and seeing what looks like the Master Sword, I would say) before or during the next instalment in the series, the Master Sword is removed from Ganon’s head. By whom? It is irrelevant for this topic, but the fact that it is removed is crucial. Ok, so now the “new” link wields the blade. If he doesn’t leave the master sword in Ganon’s had, maybe he finds another way in which the master sword can seal Ganon, then he must return it somewhere. Now since the King of Hyrule Destroyed Old Hyrule it cannot be placed in the temple of time, so a new place must be made. So I suggest in LoZ05 or post Loz05, but pre AlttP, the resting Place in the Lost Woods is created. Maybe by a sage, ot by the powers of the Triforce itself, who knows. I believe that this is a more precise and believable theory. Many People argue that the WW complicated the timeline, but if you ask me he took a step to clearing the mystery of the “moving” master sword up.

I will be back with another Forum BtR if Linkprry agrees next weeek. Please Discuss my theory and critisize it but i'd appreciate it if there were no "slaggish" commnts as i have spent a long time constructing this

THANKS
/v\ /-\ |~ |~

A very good start topic. I believe their is only one Master Sword. I believe it color change has to do with the Master Sword being in the water all those years. It would eventually rust to the reddish hilt you see in LttP. Also you said the Master Sword was in the Temple of Time when the Hero of Winds pulled it out. I believe it was in Hyrule Castle.Anyway good anaylsis.

Ok, maybe I’m sorely wrong here, but as far as I’m aware there is no official word that the events of OoT are in fact the Imprisoning War. I know it’s the popular theory, but consider for a moment that the two are not one and the same. The immediate implication of this is both origins described in Alttp and OoT could be correct.

I know I’m asking for a lot, but humor me for a second a pretend that 99% of Zelda fans are wrong, let’s theorize for a moment that ALttP took place before OoT (!gasp!). Ok, don’t shut me out just yet, all I’m trying to prove is that as far as timeline is concerned, nothing is official. Theories can be developed based on information we know, but it would be incredibly easy to concoct a story that turns all accepted probabilities upside-down. Yes, yes, I know, “But that is teh fanfiction!!1” You’re right. It is. And you’d also be right in saying that any fanfiction I could dream up has no place in an honest discussion of practical theories over... well... anything. Understand, I am not presenting the “fanfiction” itself as a theory, but rather the possibility of a fanfiction. Because while I may not have the authority to develop a story worth beans, Nintendo does. My only point is that it would be easy for the Nintendo to create a story that ties together the loose ends - if I can do it, I’m confident the great minds at Nintendo could too.

Ok, to be honest, my point has been made, I’m going to detail a possible theory to give you an example, but if you’ve read enough and don’t need one you can basically skip the rest of this post.

Alright then, after that long and wordy introduction I present to you “The Cycle”:

Sometime long ago, before even OoT, maybe even from the very beginning of Hyrule’s creation, a cycle started. After every hundred years 3 are destined to rise from the chosen bloodlines - a king, a knight, and a princess - as chosen ones of their respective element of the Triforce. Naturally conflictions between the 3 will arise and waged war is inevitable. The events that follow the resetting of the cycle will define the remainder of the hundred year cycle before it starts anew.

The events of the imprisoning war take place 300 hundred years before AlttP (3 cycle generations... the only generations Sahasrahla would feel worth noting, similar to the way Biblical genealogies ignore generations that lacked any male representative. Ex. If “Bob begot Sue begot Frank” than records would show “Bob begot Frank”) the imprisoning wars took place. As evidence of Ganon’s amassing army arose and rumors that he desperately sought the Triforce. The seven sages constructed the Temples of Time and Light (Of which Rauru volunteered to protect) and forged the Master Sword as back up, the powers of which could only be realized by a descendant of one of the chosen bloodlines. Of the two known descendants, one was the enemy this sword was forged to defeat and the other was their proud race’s icon so they began to seek out the only remaining option: the descendant of Courage.

Ganon attacked Hyrule Castle, the Hero arose wielding the strategically hyped “Blade of Evils Bane” (had Ganon known he could have just as easily wielded it’s powers, the blade was only a tool that could bend the powers of the Triforce, whether that be channeling the untapped power of the wielder or sealing the powers of another) and Ganon was effectively imprisoned.

Over the next two cycles the Legend was all but forgotten as the cycle went unnoticed in Hyrule. Ganon survived due to the life-elongating nature of the sacred realm and so no reincarnation of the chosen descendant of Power was awaken. Hyrule was allowed 300 years to restore peace and Ganon took advantage of those years to take over the Sacred Realm.

During the events of ALttP Ganon is killed by the mystical Silver Arrows, no imprisonment, he is very much dead. Fortunately for Ganon every hundred years a male is born to the Gerudo tribe. (This cycle repeats every 100 years. eh? eh?).

It doesn’t matter whether the events of OoT are the very next cyclic generation after ALttP or several after. What’s important is that the cycle proves true once again. Ganondorf rises to power, Link meets Rauru in the Temple of Light of which he has persevered in much the same way as Ganon was able to persevere in the Sacred Realm. Unaware of any available Silver Arrows Rauru instructs Link to defeat Ganon by the only means he knew: to, again, trap him in the sacred realm.

I have to admit I can’t claim the “cycle theory” as my own. But I did piece together the theory to fit the “ALttP before OoT.” Anywho, the beautiful thing about this theory is that it can effectively piece together a timeline and still leave a nigh unlimited number of unrestricted sequels to come. If you have to the gumption the best Zelda fanfic I have ever read was based off this theory and can be found here: The Legend of Zelda: Rebel Assassin and (Warning: SHAMLESS PLUG!) my unfinished fanfic (link in sig) is based off it too!

And I suppose that's about it. Flame away all ye 99%!

(Edit: Oh yeah, one last thing. I don't want to go into to much detail because I know this could quickly go off topic, but a very many historical estimates place chapters of the New Testimate as being written as early as 20-30 years after the fact and based off first hand knowledge.)

To keep up anyone that's following this I'll be posting a new topic later this week. Again good job on your theory of the Master Sword link to my past.

I think that is a really good theory.

Am I allowed to post here? Do you have to PM to discuss or just to write the opening article?

But anyway, that was interesting. Just one thing--there was a Master Sword in the Oracles. This seriously throws a monkey wrench into the theory. You know what? Capcom sucks. The Oracles and TMC totally messed up the timeline.

I can't remember exactly where the Master Sword was found in the Oracles, but I do remember a few things.

1) It was the 3rd and final sword you could get.
2) It was the upgrade to the Noble Sword.
3) If you continued from one Oracle to the other, you would find the Master Sword where the Noble Sword would normally be in that game (if you already had the Noble Sword).
4) It was the reward to a trading sequence.
5) I think that the Master Sword was in the Lost Woods in OoS, but remember that this is Holodrum, not Hyrule.

The obvious problem with this theory is that depending on which route you took, the Master Sword starts out in a different place. It's my theory that the Triforce sent the Master Sword along with Link to help him out.

Now the common theory is that Link's 'journey of strenghtening' after ALttP is the Oracles. This theory is supported by the fact that the Triforce sent Link to Holodrum/Labrynna in the first place. This means that it's possible that the Triforce also sent the Master Sword over. Where did Link leave the MS at the end of ALttP? So, to recap, this is the Master Sword's timeline:

OoT............................................... .....WW........................................... ........................
Temple of Time/Temple of Time.........ToT/Seal on Ganon (atop Ganon's Tower in Frozen

.................................................. ..ALttP...............Oracles
Hyrule, which was destroyed).......Lost Woods/?...........?/?